People will defend anything. Book Jaime was terrible at this point. I'm willing to give D&D more than one scene before I make a judgement.Might have already been posted
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 5 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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PhoenixDark
Banned
why do they all dress the same, with those silly battle skirts...
Steelyuhas
Member
They don't have time for Cersei and Jaime to spar in Kings Landing for half a season if they want to get to the end of Dance in Kings Landing (which I think they do).
badcrumble
Member
someone do an image comparison like that but with really flowery and flattering language about all of the parts with strong belwas and daenerys shitting and a short comic sans description of inexplicably having no graphic poop scenes at all
That's true, they would but then why do we even need Dorne sequences? I'd prefer the Ironborn plot from the book if we had to get one of them. Instead of these three Sand Snakes that no one likes, we could have a badass magic pirate and crazy Victarian. Yara is still cooler than the Sand Snakes even after the dog scene.
One option for Jaime's internal transformations might be to say it out loud to Bronn. Another would be to just show it in acting. I don't think it would be more difficult than let's say the work Alfie Allen has been doing as Theon. To give D & D credit, Theon has been handled perfectly this season. It's easy to see which characters they're a fan of. We don't have to hear his thoughts to have an idea what he's going through. In some ways, it makes the non-reader reaction more interesting as they can debate and discuss what he's thinking.
Jaime also flat out tells Cersei when she sends him to the Riverlands that he swore to never take up arms against the Starks and Tullys. So even in the books, he spelled out what the predicament of his travels was going to be.
It's already been half a season and Jaime has accomplished nothing. We have plenty of time for lots of stuff.
m_shortpants
Member
Someone on Reddit compared the Sand Snakes to any antagonist groups that appear in shounen anime/manga. They're the Ginyu Force of GoT.
I see it.
I see it.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
If it's anything like Skyrim, just as 93% of all things in life are, Giants will stomp the shit out of the dragons.
Geez, you people are way too hard on the SS, they haven't even done anything yet. At least give them a chance before completely bashing them.
Steelyuhas
Member
But the time hasn't existed for Cersei's plot to allow for Jaime to also be a factor in Kings Landing thus far.
The two arcs with the most plot to cover this year are Castle Black and Kings Landing, they had to get into the Feast content for Cersei once Jaime leaves pretty quick (and we've still got quite a lot to cover for Kings Landing in the back half of the season).
Ganzlinger
Member
already? Well, nothing really happened.
Sores in the sand!
The time's existed and was used on Gilly being bad at spelling/books, unpopular Grey Worm/Missandei romance, Brienne telling a story about Renly to Pod, oddly random Brienne chase sequence, sex scene with Ramsay, sex scene with Loras, sex scene with Tommen, unneeded scenes with Jaime and Bronn on a boat, or Jaime and Bronn fighting random Dornish guys. Even if you stick with going to Dorne, those aren't crucial scenes and they're just making his character progression stall.
More than enough for 2 or 3 small Cersei/Jaime scenes to create a split. Let's say one fight either after Cersei made changes to the small counsel or said something nasty to Margaery or sent Mace Tyrell to the Iron Bank. Definitely one fight after she armed the faith militant.
He could still go to Dorne and be there for episode 6, we'd be where we are now but his character would be off for it. I guarantee people would be more invested right now in Jaime if he was on the outs with Cersei. Many are bored with him. If non-readers care about Dorne, it's probably because they like Bronn.
Liquidsnake
Banned
Lol
Steelyuhas
Member
Yes, if you cut even more characters/reduce them to background characters you could more fully adapt a handful of characters source material.
Obviously we all know that's not going to happen, even without including the factors of a TV show outside of the creative, chiefly that you have these actors signed to contracts to appear in your show, you can't not use them.
Okay now you're just being silly. He clearly has to keep up appearances in front of people he may not be able to fully trust, and also, Tyrion betrayed his trust. He's hurt.
What else was he going to say? Yeah sure I'll say hello to him.
He has to keep up appearances? Didn't he basically admit to Bronn that he was the one that freed Tyrion?
Trusts? The guy he's secretly trained with and is now on a covert ops with and happens to be one of Tyrions very few friends? His relationship with his dad has always been strained and he was willing to condemn his own son to death.
Not saying it's a huge issue, I was just surprised they went there after all.
No.
There is absolutely nothing about Jaime's character in the show that would indicate that he would rejoice in, condone, or otherwise support Tywin's death at the hands of Tyrion.
Jaime let him go. He didn't say okay go kill Dad.
So he is just telling the truth. Fine. There wasn't much indication that Jaime cared for his dad over Tyrion either. Jaime knew enough to see that it was pretty justified on Tyrions end. I guess I'm wondering if that is really a good enough reason for Jaime to actually want to kill him.
Yeah I'm not suggesting that Jaime liked Tywin. He makes Jaime feel like less of a man in virtually every scene in which they appear, an abject failure.
If you go back to that part in season 4, Tyrion says something like "Are you really asking me if I killed your son?" to which Jaime replies "Are you really asking if I'd kill my brother?"
I thought that conversation was an indication that both cared too much for each other to let their petty hatred drive them to violence. And we're talking about Joffrey, who was a useless, cruel idiot, but still Jaime's son.
If you go back to that part in season 4, Tyrion says something like "Are you really asking me if I killed your son?" to which Jaime replies "Are you really asking if I'd kill my brother?"
I thought that conversation was an indication that both cared too much for each other to let their petty hatred drive them to violence. And we're talking about Joffrey, who was a useless, cruel idiot, but still Jaime's son.
Is it happening? Don't click on the link if you want to go into Episode 6 blind. It might ruin the surprise, if the below is accurate.
http://winteriscoming.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/2015-05-10-630x472.jpg
http://winteriscoming.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/2015-05-10-630x472.jpg
Given that the only two actors mentioned are her and Nikolaj, given that it's accompanied by a Season 1 still, given the track record of where you linked to, and given the bloated clickbait nature of the post itself, I'm calling bullshit.
Moff
Member
tysha had to go because she was the reason why tyrion's chapters in ADWD were among the worst of the whole saga.
many people rightfully complained it's a problem that tyrion and Jaime don't hate each other as in the books. and I think it works the way they did it now.
Tyrion hates Jaime now? Tyrion does his 'whore goes' thing for 2-3 chapters. He drinks and whines to Varys for a similar amount before being taken by Jorah on the show. I don't buy it.
Tommie Hu$tle
Member
One question I've always had is "Would Tywin have killed Tyrion? Or did he truly plan to shuttle him away?
Not at all, I could easily put the image on display here for all to see but I didn't in case it might spoil the episode in the slight chance it does turn out to be true. Just wanted people to be aware of it before clicking, that's all I intended. My post was never meant as some kind of clickbait.
Eh, there were such comments last season as well. The thread is overall very positive.
Jaime's book story in AFFC/ADWD was boring as tar, but there was clearly development of his character and some major turning points. The scene where he burns Cersei's letter is memorable and well-written. The problem is that since the show doesn't have Stoneheart, there is no real reason for Jaime to meet Brienne. Ergo, Brienne is sent somewhere and Jaime is sent somewhere else. Perhaps D&D feel people will care less about Dorne unless there is a major character there.
I don't think they have butchered Jaime's character, but they have neglected some major scenes that reflect his growth. Namely the scene where he writes his deeds in the White Book. That is one of my favorite chapters in the entire series and they seemed to be teasing it the last few seasons, but we don't get that moment. I also can't see where they are going with Jaime after Dorne. Is he going to see Myrcella is happy, realize Cersei is full of it, then turn on her? That seems awfully rushed. And then what? In the books we know we are going to get a climatic meeting between Stoneheart, Brienne, and Jaime, but we are not getting anything nearly as exciting in the show.
I don't think they have butchered Jaime's character, but they have neglected some major scenes that reflect his growth. Namely the scene where he writes his deeds in the White Book. That is one of my favorite chapters in the entire series and they seemed to be teasing it the last few seasons, but we don't get that moment. I also can't see where they are going with Jaime after Dorne. Is he going to see Myrcella is happy, realize Cersei is full of it, then turn on her? That seems awfully rushed. And then what? In the books we know we are going to get a climatic meeting between Stoneheart, Brienne, and Jaime, but we are not getting anything nearly as exciting in the show.
I really do hope the next episode explains why there isn't an army of assassins or just a regular army marching for Winterfell to seize Sansa right now.
I mean, she was on the run from Cersei, who suspects her to be a cog in the murder of Joffrey. There's no way Cersei finds out Sansa is alive and to be wed to Ramsay and is like "meh, whatever, I moved on."
I can accept Sansa can apparently get married again because Tyrion turned out to be a traitor, even if nobody knows they never consummated the marriage and are technically still married. I'll suspend my disbelief and go "okay, as a kinslayer, Sansa is excused from her promise to the Gods as far as Tyrion is concerned." But I won't accept that Cersei is just fine with Sansa happily skipping around Winterfell.
I also won't accept that Winterfell is crawling with people, most of which are smallfolk and nobody has bothered to tell Cersei that Sansa Stark has reappeared with Littlefinger.
That hole they've written themselves into with this storyline pretty much hinges on Cersei's response to Littlefinger on this in the next episode. But I still feel there should have already been a bunch of Lannister men marching to Winterfell to have her head for a traitor. Or at least a royal command to Bolton to take her head and forbid the marriage. While it would make perfect sense of Tywin to forgive Sansa her crimes to reinforce the Bolton control as Wardens of the North, Cersei is way to shortsighted and spiteful to realise this and will want Sansa dead regardless.
I mean, she was on the run from Cersei, who suspects her to be a cog in the murder of Joffrey. There's no way Cersei finds out Sansa is alive and to be wed to Ramsay and is like "meh, whatever, I moved on."
I can accept Sansa can apparently get married again because Tyrion turned out to be a traitor, even if nobody knows they never consummated the marriage and are technically still married. I'll suspend my disbelief and go "okay, as a kinslayer, Sansa is excused from her promise to the Gods as far as Tyrion is concerned." But I won't accept that Cersei is just fine with Sansa happily skipping around Winterfell.
I also won't accept that Winterfell is crawling with people, most of which are smallfolk and nobody has bothered to tell Cersei that Sansa Stark has reappeared with Littlefinger.
That hole they've written themselves into with this storyline pretty much hinges on Cersei's response to Littlefinger on this in the next episode. But I still feel there should have already been a bunch of Lannister men marching to Winterfell to have her head for a traitor. Or at least a royal command to Bolton to take her head and forbid the marriage. While it would make perfect sense of Tywin to forgive Sansa her crimes to reinforce the Bolton control as Wardens of the North, Cersei is way to shortsighted and spiteful to realise this and will want Sansa dead regardless.
I kind of wonder if Tyrion wouldn't have been a safer bet for Littlefinger to establish Sansa as Lady of the North. He protected her from Joffrey and spared her virginity while Ramsay is pretty much an adult Joffrey who would eat Margaery alive.
I guess Sansa needed to be trained but that was too boring to show in any capacity.
I guess Sansa needed to be trained but that was too boring to show in any capacity.
Oh no, that's not what I meant! I meant WiC has descended into clickbait territory. There was nothing wrong with your own post. Sorry about the confusion.
Basileus777
Member
I'm not sure how this would have worked at all. Tyrion has no power base in the North, he's not even likely to go there unless he's taking his child by Sansa with him.
Maybe Im getting mixed up, but I thought that was the whole point of the marriage. If Littlefinger went with this plan Tywin and Joffrey would be alive and the Lannisters still the strongest House with all the leverage to make this happen. Bolton bastard/Lannister Imp, not sure the North hates one that much more than the other. Youre right that he has no power base. It would be more in name like Harrenhal maybe...or they would have Bolton support if Tywin was still alive.
Basileus777
Member
Why would the Bolton's ever support Tyrion & Sansa taking away Winterfell and the North from them? This scenario essentially requires a Lannister invasion of the North to depose the Boltons. It's something not really feasible until years away, probably until after Sansa bears Tyrion a male child.
But that was Tywins initial plan wasnt it? To have Sansa and her heir rule the North? I'm not sure at what point he granted that to the Boltons instead but I doubt the Boltons alone had much leverage against Tywin or the Freys earlier. They would have to settle with not being decimated along with the Starks in a losing war instead of gaining Wardenship.
Basileus777
Member
Tywin's plan was long term, and it would have required some sort of hostilities against the Boltons as it's really the Lannisters who would lack leverage against the North consolidated under the Boltons. An invasion of the North from the South is never going to be very practical, and the Freys have a marriage alliance with the Boltons.
It's not really something Littlefinger could have done anyway, even if he was willing to wait, which he probably wouldn't be. Sansa undermining the Boltons from within while Stannis is still an enemy and the North hasn't been secured is quite different from the alternative you are proposing.
Yeah, that makes sense. Tyrions route would at least need an heir first which didn't seem likely. Though now I'm wondering about the Eyrie which Littlefinger could have easily controlled with Lysa. Guess Whiteharbor doesn't exist in the show. Eh, perhaps it's just hindsight and knowing things about Ramsay. Everything may just not blow up in Littlefingers face.
hendersonhank
Member
Jaime's Riverlands storyline was disposable without a doubt. He's already had his character transformation and become a pretty decent guy. I don't need to be beaten over the head with it by watching him be a decent guy at a pointless siege with irrelevant characters for an entire season.
The Sand Snakes in the book were terrible. I have literally no recollection whatsoever what actually happened with them or what they did. Sand Snakes, Darkstar, Oakheart,...uninteresting characters unnecessarily introduced 5 books into a series to have uninteresting and in my case literally forgettable storylines.
So far, I prefer this season of the show to books 4 and 5, aside from Barristan and Missandei/Grey Worm, and all the Comic Sans in the world won't change that.
The Sand Snakes in the book were terrible. I have literally no recollection whatsoever what actually happened with them or what they did. Sand Snakes, Darkstar, Oakheart,...uninteresting characters unnecessarily introduced 5 books into a series to have uninteresting and in my case literally forgettable storylines.
So far, I prefer this season of the show to books 4 and 5, aside from Barristan and Missandei/Grey Worm, and all the Comic Sans in the world won't change that.
Basileus777
Member
Dorne and the Iron Islands really suffer from having a bunch of characters that come off as forced attempts at edginess. Someone earlier mentioned how a lot of those characters would fit perfectly in a shonen manga.
Oldest Snake
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