Support NeoGAF

[Madness]

The Sand Snakes were cringe worthy. That whole subplot felt like I was watching amateur hour television.

Plus, what did you folks expect for Sansa? Some people in this thread thought she'd turn into this badass warrior, kill Ramsay and Roose, liberate the castle and some even said she'd be wardeness of the North and is the real Queen referred to in Cersei prophecy.

In the end, Sansa is still naive in a world without her parents, grown up too soon, and passed around by men getting what they want from her. Her only redemption this season will be the eventual escape with Theon.

Edit:

The above gif once again, for those who felt hopeful about a lot of their favorite characters.

 

[Gila]

The water-gardens fight was so laughably bad. The way they are handling Dorne is really annoying me, it was my most hyped plot.

 

[Discotheque]

The water-gardens fight was so laughably bad. The way they are handling Dorne is really annoying me, it was my most hyped plot.

the sand snakes are cheesy as hell in this show lol. nowhere near as cool as I thought they'd be when I read it. is it just bad stunt-work or what?

dorne plot is all just mediocre in this show imo

 

[Ratrat]

In the end, Sansa is still naive in a world without her parents, grown up too soon, and passed around by men getting what they want from her. Her only redemption this season will be the eventual escape with Theon.

She is going in circles! When will that girl learn?
She has no more family to betray and watch die. No allies to trust and suffer betrayal. She is a lost cause tbh.

 

[Rogue Agent]

 

[Kuroyume]

the sand snakes are cheesy as hell in this show lol. nowhere near as cool as I thought they'd be when I read it. is it just bad stunt-work or what?

dorne plot is all just mediocre in this show imo

It's the actors also. Their over annunciations. Like ohhhhhhhhhhh we're so exotic. Exotic touuuuuuuugh ladiesssss SssssssSsssss we're snakeeeeeeeeeeeesss

Garbage,

And yeah it looks bad too.

 

[Madness]

It's just ridiculous. Pedro got the accent down perfect. Was unique and suited his character. Indira changed her accent to try and mimic his version and yet she sounds terrible compared to her Mediterranean/Middle Eastern style accent before. The Sand Snakes sound even worse. Plus they are supposed to be these badass warriors and yet it looked like a grade 6 LARP convention fight was going on. The whole Dorne plot is so poorly done. Looks like Bronn is done for too, was cut with a 'dorneish' blade. Probably poisoned.

 

[A-V-B]

The Sand Snakes were cringe worthy. That whole subplot felt like I was watching amateur hour television.

Plus, what did you folks expect for Sansa? Some people in this thread thought she'd turn into this badass warrior, kill Ramsay and Roose, liberate the castle and some even said she'd be wardeness of the North and is the real Queen referred to in Cersei prophecy.

In the end, Sansa is still naive in a world without her parents, grown up too soon, and passed around by men getting what they want from her. Her only redemption this season will be the eventual escape with Theon.

Edit:

The above gif once again, for those who felt hopeful about a lot of their favorite characters.

And the story won't have a bad ending either.

At least, the books won't.

 

[TheVampire]

I've never read the books but Im confused about these Faith guys.

How can they put the queen or even the king on trial?

Why can't Toman just say fuck this shit and have all the guards kill them? or throw them out of the city?

 

[Aiii]

I've never read the books but Im confused about these Faith guys.

How can they put the queen or even the king on trial?

Why can't Toman just say fuck this shit and have all the guards kill them? or throw them out of the city?

The Gods pick the king/queen, so they are the highest authority.

Related, this is also why "trial by battle" trumps any regular verdict. The Gods chose the winner, so if the accused wins the trial by battle, he must be innocent.

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

I've never read the books but Im confused about these Faith guys.

How can they put the queen or even the king on trial?

Why can't Toman just say fuck this shit and have all the guards kill them? or throw them out of the city?

They're fanatics and very influential to the people living in the Southern Kingdoms, except probably Dorne and the North. Even the founder of the Targaryen Dynasty had to "bend" before them. Most of the people in Kings Landing are worshippers of the Faith of the Seven, so antagonising these religious folks would be a really bad idea.

 

[Exterminieren]

Ugh, Dorne is just bad.

I mean, don't get me wrong, the Sand Snakes were embarrassing in the books, but they at least didn't focus on them this much. It's just feeble.

I was all for taking Jaime to Dorne and seeing these new characters through his eyes, but they've handled it in the worst possible way.

Spoiler

Could have been worse. They could have had the Iron Islands, with their uninvolving plots and terrible characters.

 

[Sanjay]

I can't remember at all what happened in the books, can someone say what the difference is between the Sansa/Ramsey bed scene in the books and TV show please, thanks.

 

[Ratrat]

I can't remember at all what happened in the books, can someone say what the difference is between the Sansa/Ramsey bed scene in the books and TV show please, thanks.

Its the same.

 

[higgsboson1997]

Its the same.

No it isn't. In the books, Ramsay tells Theon to lick Jeyne Poole "down there".

 

[Exterminieren]

I can't remember at all what happened in the books, can someone say what the difference is between the Sansa/Ramsey bed scene in the books and TV show please, thanks.

Well, Sansa and Ramsey doesn't exist in the books, for a start.

Ramsey has Reek warm her up for him, and it's heavily implied that he gets his dogs to rape her at some point.

 

[Ratrat]

The book goes much further obviously but none of it is shown.

 

[Blue Ninja]

Its the same.

Doesn't Ramsay force Reek to get his bride 'ready' in the books? I don't remember clearly.

Anyway, I can see why non-book readers are shocked at what just happened. It's like some people keep expecting the characters to turn out to be decent people. Apart from the pure shock value of a character getting raped, though, I don't see what's so surprising about this episode for some book readers I've spoken with. It was pretty obvious Sansa had been slotted completely into the Jeyne Poole role, newfound 'power' aside. I see her getting some revenge before she jumps from the walls with Theon, though. Killing Ramsay doesn't seem out of the question, really, I can see him biting it before this season is over. Have Roose and Stannis duke it out during the next.

I liked the scene between Jorah and Tyrion. Was nice to see Jorah react to the news of his father's death, I don't think he knows about it in the books.

The Dorne plot was very disappointing. I honestly can't believe Jaime/Bronn and Obara and her Sand Snakes thought they'd be able to abduct Myrcella while she was with the Prince, while the Water Gardens are teeming with Martell soldiers. At least it got over and done with in five minutes and they didn't drag it out until the final episodes.

Interesting to see how it all goes forward. Not really sold on this season yet. It's not bad, but I feel the show reached its peak and is starting back on a downward slope.

I need to read book 4 & 5 again, man all these changes confuses the hell out of me nowdays because I don't ever recall Sansa getting eaten by Theon and fucked by dogs, but that did happen but to fake Arya Stark right.

Yeah, Jeyne Poole.

 

[Sanjay]

Well, Sansa and Ramsey doesn't exist in the books, for a start.

Ramsey has Reek warm her up for him, and it's heavily implied that he gets his dogs to rape her at some point.

I need to read book 4 & 5 again, man all these changes confuses the hell out of me nowdays because I don't ever recall Sansa getting eaten by Theon and fucked by dogs, but that did happen but to fake Arya Stark right.

 

[Monocle]

Oh jeez, looks like the show's jumping the shark again. This episode's one saving grace was Granny Tyrell mopping the floor with Cersei. (Oh, and the nice lighting in the indoor scenes, I suppose.)

I'm disappointed with the way Loras's character has been hijacked. In the books he's a radiant young warrior prodigy, the Knight of Flowers, and incidentally he likes guys. In the show he's the QUEER BROTHER of Margaery whose swordfighting mostly occurs in the bedroom. And now he's become a walking plot device in the show's latest invention, a clumsy subplot where the Sparrows persecute everyone for made-up "perversions" medieval Christian style. Neat.

Flawless.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

faith in writers fading

fading

fading...

 

[SamVimes]

I didn't know slavers were able to teleport. Is that the famed negro magic i keep hearing about?

 

[munchie64]

Thinking about it, I think I dislike the ending more now than I did at first. Will have to see what the podcasts think about it before I can be 100% sure I think.

Oh jeez, looks like the show's jumping the shark again. This episode's one saving grace was Granny Tyrell mopping the floor with Cersei. (Oh, and the nice lighting in the indoor scenes, I suppose.)

If you say something is jumping the shark "again", you're automatically using the term wrong lol

 

[Neifirst]

I swear that last face that Arya looked at was her and Sansa's old septa from Winterfell who came with them to King's Landing. Can anyone confirm?

 

[higgsboson1997]

I really enjoyed this episode. Probably the best so far.

 

[Santiako]

Oh man, that ending was rough. Most of the episode was horrible, only the Arya and Mormont/Tyrion parts were good.

Dorne is comically bad, like mid 90s medieval tv show bad.

 

[toastyToast]

I don't know why they took out the charges laid against Marge in the book. The replacement is dumb as fuck.

 

[Red Arremer]

I'm severely disappointed at how bad the show is getting.

 

[SamVimes]

I'm severely disappointed at how bad the show is getting.

Yeah, i'm really close to dropping it. If i didn't read the books i would have already dropped it some time ago.

 

[giga]

I'm severely disappointed at how bad the show is getting.

I'm kind of glad the show runners are veering off GRRM's arcs, as it keeps the books untainted.

 

[Exterminieren]

I don't know why they took out the charges laid against Marge in the book. The replacement is dumb as fuck.

Because the question of whether Margaery is a virgin or not is moot in the show. At the bare minimum, she's lost her virginity to Tommen.

 

[toastyToast]

I don't want to get banned again and I've posted a few times in the unsullied thread. I haven't made any plot comments. Is everything else cool? I've followed the instructions as per the original post but I think what I did the last couple times was expound on people's theories with what I was pretty sure was show stuff. Especially with these divergences are we free to go back and forth or should I just stick to this thread?

Because the question of whether Margaery is a virgin or not is moot in the show. At the bare minimum, she's lost her virginity to Tommen.

Makes sense but it felt like a more interesting accusation to level at her than perjury especially during that muted trial scene.

 

[Red Arremer]

If you've read the books, the best option is to not post in the Unsullied thread at all, even if you don't spoil anything.

 

[Atraveller]

Makes sense but it felt like a more interesting accusation to level at her than perjury especially during that muted trial scene.

Almost feels like the showrunners want to do a sex scene more than setting up latter plots.

 

[Basileus777]

Makes sense but it felt like a more interesting accusation to level at her than perjury especially during that muted trial scene.

It doesn't work with Margaery's show age. And the show never made a point of her virginity. Even if she hadn't married Tommen, Renly could have taken it. They could have turned it into an infidelity thing, but went this way for whatever reason. Maybe because it requires less setup.

Almost feels like the showrunners want to do a sex scene more than setting up latter plots.

I'm not seeing how that applies here. I don't believe show Margaery ever claimed to not have sex with Renly, so the Tommen scene doesn't matter.

 

[foxtrot3d]

Alright, I've just watched the episode and I think I'm ready to throw up. JESUS FUCKING CHRIST!!! Remember how we were all like D&D can't possibly rape Sansa AFTER she was already on her "not being used" anymore arc and started to play the game? Well, we thought WRONG. What the actual fuck?! I'm literally speechless sitting here trying to ponder how they thought turning Sansa into Jeyne Poole was a good idea and I'm also wondering just how exactly GRRM feels about this. GRRM may write plenty of graphic stuff but he understands that their is a limit to what the reader will accept especially concerning the Starks. They already start the series torn apart and treated like crap and it only gets worse so he knows having Arya or Sansa violently raped is not the best idea. I haven't read any of the comments yet, although I will, but I'm going to guess you guys are just as disgusted as I am. Thus, I'm just going to move on and talk about the rest of the episode.

Dorne. Holy crap what a piece of trash storyline this has been so far. So what exactly were the Sand Snakes planning? To kill/kidnap Mycella? Did they know Jaimie would be there? Why was the fight choreagraphy and editing so bad? How did Jaimie and Bronn just walk right into the Water Gardens? Also, I haven;t read shit but it looks like we know for certain now that Bronn is going to die and probably his last words. It looks to me that Bronn got cut from Tyene, who as we know uses poison, so it seems very likely that he'll die from the poison. And, of course, as he's on his death bed he'll sing to Jaimie the ending of "the Dornishman's Wife" at which point they'll both laugh and he'll kick the bucket. *Barf*

The Faith Militant stuff is alright I suppose but I suspected Cercei to be taken by this episode instead of waiting for another episode for that to happen. Whatever. However, I do HATE the Arya, Faceless Men stuff. All of a sudden D&D managed to take one of the most interesting and fun stories in the last two books and turn it into a story of abuse. When did the "game of faces" become more like punishment and not a lesson? Why is the waif such a jealous hard bitch? What happened to all of Jaqen's swagger or at least channel some of the Kindly Man's you know kindliness? Instead it's all Arya gets beaten repeatedly, told she isn't worthy, and needs to get back to work, and only after poisoning a little child is she allowed to become someone else.

*clap* *clap*

D&D are truly masters at missing the point about everything in the books and sucking all of the fun out.

 

[TTG]

I haven't noticed a precipitous drop, there's always been a whole slew of problems(ahem fight scenes or just about any time they step away from character intrigue to try and convince the viewers of the plight/political unrest of the common folk around), but it manages to be entertaining. Last week's sand sisters or whatever the fuck had a much worse performance, their introduction was garbage.

I think I'm starting to like the show more. I read the books after season one, so I can only recall an outline of where A Dance With Dragons leaves us, maybe that's why every single divergence isn't such an irritant or cause for concern. I'm finding a lot of the stuff that happens now(outside of King's Landing and Stannis) is fresh, which is nice. It's too bad I can see the finale, or maybe the last two episodes, almost scene by scene. It's a good prelude for next season anyway.

 

[Atraveller]

I'm not seeing how that applies here. I don't believe show Margaery ever claimed to not have sex with Renly, so the Tommen scene doesn't matter.

I think she did, in a scene with Joffery, and his brand new crossbow.

 

[RoninChaos]

So I'm half way book two and still watching the show.

I've heard a lot of criticisms that the books sort of lose focus with four and five and we are seeing that in the show. Can someone PM me and confirm?

 

[cartoon_soldier]

My Overall Thoughts:

Dorne scene was bad. First thee are no solders or protection in the water gardens then like 100 of them show up. The whole thing really didn't make sense.

Kinds Landing was fine. I think the perjury charge streamlines that part and Queen of Thorns shows why Cersei is a fool. Like Tywin knew when to work with their rivals, Cersei doesn't. She just wants to destroy everybody and this will come back to bite her (like we know). Littlefinger still playing his game, wonder if he will succeed at becoming Warden of the North by the end of this season.

Arya part was great. Can't wait to see her kill next.

Jorah/Tyrion part was fine, Jorah finding about his father. The dwarf lives until we find a cock merchant best line of this episode lol.

Now, for the most controversial part. Sansa and Ramsay. I have no idea what people have been expecting, Sansa suddenly becoming all cunning, killing Ramsay at that point? It is a gradual change, will have to be. The Myranda - Sansa scene was great. That is where you see some of the change in Sansa.. The wedding setting itself was great, in front of the tree. The scene was disgusting as expected, Sansa knew she would have to do this. What made it more awful was Theon and Alfie's acting and face. But I have no idea why this isn't keeping with the plot, this is far better than what GRRM wrote.

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

The fight scene was so hilariously bad. The Prince of Dorne taking a nap on the side and the rest are just swinging their weapons. All those "meticulous" plans by Ellaria to her daughters and their corny motto "For Oberyn", only to get caught by Areo Hotah. Its a shame Bronn will die from an incompetent warrior.

D & D should have excluded the whole Sand Snakes. Ship Ellaria to where ever she came from and focused on the bromance of Jaime and Bronn. Whilst actually telling a decent story in Dorne with characters like Doran, Hotah and Myrcella

 

[NeoGiff]

Alright, I've just watched the episode and I think I'm ready to throw up. JESUS FUCKING CHRIST!!! Remember how we were all like D&D can't possibly rape Sansa AFTER she was already on her "not being used" anymore arc and started to play the game? Well, we thought WRONG. What the actual fuck?! I'm literally speechless sitting here trying to ponder how they thought turning Sansa into Jeyne Poole was a good idea and I'm also wondering just how exactly GRRM feels about this. GRRM may write plenty of graphic stuff but he understands that their is a limit to what the reader will accept especially concerning the Starks. They already start the series torn apart and treated like crap and it only gets worse so he knows having Arya or Sansa violently raped is not the best idea. I haven't read any of the comments yet, although I will, but I'm going to guess you guys are just as disgusted as I am. Thus, I'm just going to move on and talk about the rest of the episode.

Dorne. Holy crap what a piece of trash storyline this has been so far. So what exactly were the Sand Snakes planning? To kill/kidnap Mycella? Did they know Jaimie would be there? Why was the fight choreagraphy and editing so bad? How did Jaimie and Bronn just walk right into the Water Gardens? Also, I haven;t read shit but it looks like we know for certain now that Bronn is going to die and probably his last words. It looks to me that Bronn got cut from Tyene, who as we know uses poison, so it seems very likely that he'll die from the poison. And, of course, as he's on his death bed he'll sing to Jaimie the ending of "the Dornishman's Wife" at which point they'll both laugh and he'll kick the bucket. *Barf*

The Faith Militant stuff is alright I suppose but I suspected Cercei to be taken by this episode instead of waiting for another episode for that to happen. Whatever. However, I do HATE the Arya, Faceless Men stuff. All of a sudden D&D managed to take one of the most interesting and fun stories in the last two books and turn it into a story of abuse. When did the "game of faces" become more like punishment and not a lesson? Why is the waif such a jealous hard bitch? What happened to all of Jaqen's swagger or at least channel some of the Kindly Man's you know kindliness? Instead it's all Arya gets beaten repeatedly, told she isn't worthy, and needs to get back to work, and only after poisoning a little child is she allowed to become someone else.

*clap* *clap*

D&D are truly masters at missing the point about everything in the books and sucking all of the fun out.

More importantly, have you seen my newest creation/abomination?

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

More importantly, have you seen my newest creation/abomination?

Queen of Thorns is having none of it. LAMFAO

Goddamn the snakes are aweful

 

[TTG]

Now, for the most controversial part. Sansa and Ramsay. I have no idea what people have been expecting, Sansa suddenly becoming all cunning, killing Ramsay at that point?

Well, I wasn't shocked, but Sansa has been actively avoiding that scene ever since what, daddy's execution? I was waiting for someone to interrupt(news of Stannis, Brienne, whatever) right until it was too late.

 

[foxtrot3d]

More importantly, have you seen my newest creation/abomination?

Marvelous.

My Overall Thoughts:

Dorne scene was bad. First thee are no solders or protection in the water gardens then like 100 of them show up. The whole thing really didn't make sense.

Kinds Landing was fine. I think the perjury charge streamlines that part and Queen of Thorns shows why Cersei is a fool. Like Tywin knew when to work with their rivals, Cersei doesn't. She just wants to destroy everybody and this will come back to bite her (like we know). Littlefinger still playing his game, wonder if he will succeed at becoming Warden of the North by the end of this season.

Arya part was great. Can't wait to see her kill next.

Jorah/Tyrion part was fine, Jorah finding about his father. The dwarf lives until we find a cock merchant best line of this episode lol.

Now, for the most controversial part. Sansa and Ramsay. I have no idea what people have been expecting, Sansa suddenly becoming all cunning, killing Ramsay at that point? It is a gradual change, will have to be. The Myranda - Sansa scene was great. That is where you see some of the change in Sansa.. The wedding setting itself was great, in front of the tree. The scene was disgusting as expected, Sansa knew she would have to do this. What made it more awful was Theon and Alfie's acting and face. But I have no idea why this isn't keeping with the plot, this is far better than what GRRM wrote.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Alright, I've just watched the episode and I think I'm ready to throw up. JESUS FUCKING CHRIST!!! Remember how we were all like D&D can't possibly rape Sansa AFTER she was already on her "not being used" anymore arc and started to play the game? Well, we thought WRONG. What the actual fuck?! I'm literally speechless sitting here trying to ponder how they thought turning Sansa into Jeyne Poole was a good idea and I'm also wondering just how exactly GRRM feels about this. GRRM may write plenty of graphic stuff but he understands that their is a limit to what the reader will accept especially concerning the Starks. They already start the series torn apart and treated like crap and it only gets worse so he knows having Arya or Sansa violently raped is not the best idea. I haven't read any of the comments yet, although I will, but I'm going to guess you guys are just as disgusted as I am. Thus, I'm just going to move on and talk about the rest of the episode.

Dorne. Holy crap what a piece of trash storyline this has been so far. So what exactly were the Sand Snakes planning? To kill/kidnap Mycella? Did they know Jaimie would be there? Why was the fight choreagraphy and editing so bad? How did Jaimie and Bronn just walk right into the Water Gardens? Also, I haven;t read shit but it looks like we know for certain now that Bronn is going to die and probably his last words. It looks to me that Bronn got cut from Tyene, who as we know uses poison, so it seems very likely that he'll die from the poison. And, of course, as he's on his death bed he'll sing to Jaimie the ending of "the Dornishman's Wife" at which point they'll both laugh and he'll kick the bucket. *Barf*

The Faith Militant stuff is alright I suppose but I suspected Cercei to be taken by this episode instead of waiting for another episode for that to happen. Whatever. However, I do HATE the Arya, Faceless Men stuff. All of a sudden D&D managed to take one of the most interesting and fun stories in the last two books and turn it into a story of abuse. When did the "game of faces" become more like punishment and not a lesson? Why is the waif such a jealous hard bitch? What happened to all of Jaqen's swagger or at least channel some of the Kindly Man's you know kindliness? Instead it's all Arya gets beaten repeatedly, told she isn't worthy, and needs to get back to work, and only after poisoning a little child is she allowed to become someone else.

*clap* *clap*

D&D are truly masters at missing the point about everything in the books and sucking all of the fun out.

So, GRRM writing a random girl gets fucked by dogs is more acceptable than Sansa having sex with Ramsay (in a case where she didn't want to, but she knew she had to)?

All I am reading here than is that if D&D had shown a random girl getting licked by Theon and then ravaged by dogs it would have been fine. But Sansa has to have sex with Ramsay and all hell has broken lose.

 

[raphier]

So, GRRM writing a random girl gets fucked by dogs is more acceptable than Sansa having sex with Ramsay (in a case where she didn't want to, but she knew she had to)?

I think Sansa was supposed to be one who is the innocent.

 

[Massa]

I think Sansa was supposed to be one who is the innocent.

Well she can't be that forever. That's the point.

 

[TTG]

Well she can't be that forever. That's the point.

Don't you speak about his precious Sansa that way!

 

[cartoon_soldier]

I think Sansa was supposed to be one who is the innocent.

In the books, sure. The show isn't the books.