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[-griffy-]

Maybe you just have a lot more faith in this show than I do It's starting to approach The Walking Dead-levels of disinterest (and quality) for me.

Yeah, I'm still enjoying the show a lot so I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt I guess. I think there is a clear level of quality present overall on a scene by scene and character motivation basis (like, Game of Thrones still bothers to actually explain why characters do what they do. Regardless of the complaints, we know why Stannis is going to Winterfell, why Sansa agreed to the Ramsay marriage, why Jaime went to Dorne, why Cersei armed the Faith, etc. There's still an internal logic at work to explain these things) as opposed to Walking Dead where characters just do things because...plot. I literally just watch Walking Dead for the zombie carnage (it scratches a genre itch that no other show does at this point, at that relative level of production value) and the rare occasions where it peeks its head above the surface and is briefly elevated in quality. I can't even bother picking it apart at this point.

 

[Asami208]

Maybe there would be a point to the abuse if Sansa was hardened from her past experiences and her learning of the game, however she's just portrayed as a helpless victim. It's not a huge step up from the way that all the women seem to be treated on the show, but if she actually got close to Ramsey so she could butcher the family who massacred her own it would be a natural progression of her character.

I've said this before, but there's is a way to make this somewhat less icky. Have Sansa use her sexuality to lure Ramsay into a false sense of security/complacency. Kind of like Margaery was playing Joffrey a few seasons back. It's still be creepy, but at least it'd give her some agency of her own and fit in with her character arc.

 

[Speevy]

I've said this before, but there's is a way to make this somewhat less icky. Have Sansa use her sexuality to lure Ramsay into a false sense of security/complacency. Kind of like Margaery was playing Joffrey a few seasons back. It's still be creepy, but at least it'd give her some agency of her own and fit in with her character arc.

In season 3, Sansa seemed baffled that Margaery wouldn't be a virgin.

She's never seduced or learned how to seduce a man in her life, and no one has taught her that.

Maybe she shouldn't be here. But I know for sure that she shouldn't be there.

 

[Speevy]

I've said this before, but there's is a way to make this somewhat less icky. Have Sansa use her sexuality to lure Ramsay into a false sense of security/complacency. Kind of like Margaery was playing Joffrey a few seasons back. It's still be creepy, but at least it'd give her some agency of her own and fit in with her character arc.

Well you sure got banned in a hurry.

 

[A-V-B]

GRRM has responded.

http://grrm.livejournal.com/

And then someone posted this from Martin's livejournal about his views on fanfiction.

http://grrm.livejournal.com/151914.html

"Those are some of the reasons writers like me will not permit fanfic, but before I close, let me put aside the legal and financial aspects of all this for a moment, and talk about more personal ones. Here, I think, Diana Gabaldon absolutely hit the nail on the head in the latest of her blog posts on the subject. And here, she and I agree completely. Many years ago, I won a Nebula for a story called "Portraits of His Children," which was all about a writer's relationship with the characters he creates. I don't have any actual children, myself (Diana does). My characters are my children, I have been heard to say. I don't want people making off with them, thank you. Even people who say they love my children. I'm sure that's true, I don't doubt the sincerity of the affection, but still...

"I have sometimes allowed other writers to play with my children. In Wild Cards, for instance, which is a shared world. Lohengrin, Hoodoo Mama, Popinjay, the Turtle, and all my other WC creations have been written by other writers, and I have written their characters. But I submit, this is NOT at all the same thing. A shared world is a tightly controlled environment. In the case of Wild Cards, it's controlled by me. I decide who gets to borrow my creations, and I review their stories, and approve or disapproval what is done with them. "No, Popinjay would say it this way," I say, or "Sorry, the Turtle would never do that," or, more importantly (this has never come up in Wild Cards, but it did in some other shared worlds), "No, absolutely not, your character may not rape my character, I don't give a fuck how powerful you think it would be." "

 

[Cybit]

I've said this before, but there's is a way to make this somewhat less icky. Have Sansa use her sexuality to lure Ramsay into a false sense of security/complacency. Kind of like Margaery was playing Joffrey a few seasons back. It's still be creepy, but at least it'd give her some agency of her own and fit in with her character arc.

That might be where they go from here though. I've enjoyed both the books and the TV series, and am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for now. Hell, this episode used a throwaway scene from the first episode of the series (IIRC) to push a major plot point forward. Patience is a virtue.

Hell, even if they stick with the books and have Sansa run away with LF; there is quite a bit of more story left even afterward to lead to a hopefully satisfying conclusion. Compared to the books; Sansa is far less of a pawn and has far more agency in the TV show IMO.

 

[KooopaKid]

the faith militia is there as well, and cerseis motivations are not really comprehensible either. but I think it was even faster in the show and I honestly wondered why no one complained about that in both threads here. well except me.

In the books Renly and Loras aren't gay stereotypes from a Carry On film, and as far as we know they only slept with each other. Instead Cersei makes up some stuff about Maergery sleeping with various people, and she's the one who gets arrested.

Loras is off being an awesome warrior and mourning the love of his life, not hanging around in brothels 24/7.

Thanks. So it was weird in the books as well. What was the evidence in Maergery's trial?
I mean the only evidence is a birthmark in the show, how hard was it to just pretend he had seen him naked while taking a bath?

 

[Byakuya769]

Does he plan on releasing the winds of winter or will it be an anthology of the sample chapters ten years from now?

 

[nelsonroyale]

The shows producers actually said LF wasn't aware of Ramsay's reputation...like he didn't even try and find out...any probing would have yielded it. Putting basically the most romantic and 'innocent' character in with the most depraved seems like a decision to get an easy hit on the shock factor. It smacks of bad writing to me...

 

[Anton Sugar]

I mean, his "response" is extremely diplomatic. He doesn't say he likes or dislikes the changes--he is just saying, "calm down, we are telling the same story in two different ways, let's see what happens."

 

[Tainted]

Am I correct in saying that at the conclusion of Season 5, the books and TV series will be in parity ? Rumor has it the new book won't be out until next year now

Thank god for that

 

[nelsonroyale]

And then someone posted this from Martin's livejournal about his views on fanfiction.

http://grrm.livejournal.com/151914.html

"Those are some of the reasons writers like me will not permit fanfic, but before I close, let me put aside the legal and financial aspects of all this for a moment, and talk about more personal ones. Here, I think, Diana Gabaldon absolutely hit the nail on the head in the latest of her blog posts on the subject. And here, she and I agree completely. Many years ago, I won a Nebula for a story called "Portraits of His Children," which was all about a writer's relationship with the characters he creates. I don't have any actual children, myself (Diana does). My characters are my children, I have been heard to say. I don't want people making off with them, thank you. Even people who say they love my children. I'm sure that's true, I don't doubt the sincerity of the affection, but still...

"I have sometimes allowed other writers to play with my children. In Wild Cards, for instance, which is a shared world. Lohengrin, Hoodoo Mama, Popinjay, the Turtle, and all my other WC creations have been written by other writers, and I have written their characters. But I submit, this is NOT at all the same thing. A shared world is a tightly controlled environment. In the case of Wild Cards, it's controlled by me. I decide who gets to borrow my creations, and I review their stories, and approve or disapproval what is done with them. "No, Popinjay would say it this way," I say, or "Sorry, the Turtle would never do that," or, more importantly (this has never come up in Wild Cards, but it did in some other shared worlds), "No, absolutely not, your character may not rape my character, I don't give a fuck how powerful you think it would be." "

Hmmm...

 

[Patriots7]

Weren't people expecting Bolton Pies, destroying them from within and all of that nonsense?

Lol.

 

[Speevy]

Weren't people expecting Bolton Pies, destroying them from within and all of that nonsense?

Lol.

Well they're destroying something all right.

 

[Cybit]

Hmmm...

Interesting considering GRRM is an co-executive producer on the show and most assuredly knew about the scene beforehand.

 

[A-V-B]

Interesting considering GRRM is an co-executive producer on the show and most assuredly knew about the scene beforehand.

He technically has no control, IIRC. He could sue them if he wanted to, but he doesn't have time for that. And he probably doesn't care enough. Sucks, but GoT is out there, whatever. Time to write this new chapter.

 

[RedShift]

The stupidness of the ending almost made me forget the other stupid parts of this episode.

Especially the Jaime/Bronn version of 'stealth', which apparently consists of walking into the Water Gardens (which apparently doesn't have guards? Except it does because they show up a little later), letting everyone know you're Jaime Lannister, punching the heir to Dorne in the face and then getting caught in a terribly choreographed fight with some actors who apparently walked on set from a low budget porn spoof of Xena Warrior Princess or something.

At least they revealed that there is in fact a third song that exists in Westeros, even if we only got to hear a tiny part of it.

 

[twinturbo2]

At least one website has flat-out quit on Game of Thrones after last night.

 

[Iksenpets]

He technically has no control, IIRC. He could sue them if he wanted to, but he doesn't have time for that. And he probably doesn't care enough. GoT is out there, whatever. Time to write this new chapter.

He doesn't have any standing to sue. They let him review the season outline before they start writing each season, and he can offer his input, but they're not obliged to listen at all. Sometimes they do sometimes they don't. We know of at least a few times when he requested character renamings when they changed the background for certain characters, which is how we got Locke instead of Vargo and Talisa instead of Jeyne. Then he has the option to write one of the ten episodes of the season, within the confines of the outline he's provided. That's it.

 

[foxtrot3d]

He technically has no control, IIRC. He could sue them if he wanted to, but he doesn't have time for that. And he probably doesn't care enough. GoT is out there, whatever. Time to write this new chapter.

No he couldn't, GRRM sold the rights towards the specific world of the ASOIF novels to HBO to make into a TV show. The fact that they allow him to contribute so much to the show is really unique, but I doubt it is a legal necessity. The fact is that HBO most likely can do whatever they want with the show, no matter how much GRRM protests, because they own the rights to the show.

 

[Real Hero]

The north plot was so good in adwd...Frey pies man...Frey pies...

 

[Cybit]

He technically has no control, IIRC. He could sue them if he wanted to, but he doesn't have time for that. And he probably doesn't care enough. GoT is out there, whatever. Time to write this new chapter.

He's been pretty hands-on throughout the entire creation and series so far - even if not in a visible role, there have been plenty of interviews where D&D run stuff by him, etc; as well as D&D knowing the entire plot of the series and where things are headed. His comment about the butterfly turning into a dragon makes me think he knew that when they switched Sansa's story in the TV show what the consequences of that decision would be.

That said; I'd imagine after this season he's probably far more invested in finishing the dang books.

 

[A-V-B]

He doesn't have any standing to sue. They let him review the season outline before they start writing each season, and he can offer his input, but they're not obliged to listen at all. Sometimes they do sometimes they don't. We know of at least a few times when he requested character renamings when they changed the background for certain characters, which is how we got Locke instead of Vargo and Talisa instead of Jeyne. Then he has the option to write one of the ten episodes of the season, within the confines of the outline he's provided. That's it.

Hey, I didn't say a lawsuit would have any standing. It's just something that is open in the vast universe of possibilities ("and so is riding in naked on a goat, covered in honey!")

 

[BertramCooper]

This Jaime and Bronn stuff is laughably stupid on so many levels.

 

[Brakke]

The north plot was so good in adwd...Frey pies man...Frey pies...

lol the best part of the book is something that doesn't even happen in the book?

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

In season 3, Sansa seemed baffled that Margaery wouldn't be a virgin.

She's never seduced or learned how to seduce a man in her life, and no one has taught her that.

Maybe she shouldn't be here. But I know for sure that she shouldn't be there.

She spent her entire life in Winterfell being trained to be a lords suitor. She's already been toughened to abuse when she suffered at the hands of Joff. Her brother/mother died at the red wedding and she played a part in Olenna's assassination of Joff learning how much easier it is to kill people you're close to. She's been taught the game by little finger. She doesn't need to seduce Ramsey because he already is seduced by the power her marriage will bring him. She's been given a potential way out of the castle by Brienne. Finally she must have known exactly what was going to happen on her wedding night when she first heard of the being set up with Ramsey.

Her whole build to this point puts her in the perfect position to deal with the card that she's been dealt. Maybe it will go that way but I have zero faith in the writing for female cast at this point and am finding it hard to stomach any on screen portrayal of Sansa's powerlessness.

 

[Real Hero]

lol the best part of the book is something that doesn't even happen in the book?

Its one of the best parts and how didn't it happen

 

[Brakke]

Its one of the best parts and how didn't it happen

Manderly never confirms the Frey Pies. It's a likely-but-not-confirmed theory.

Which is the whole problem with the books at this point, all the cool shit is happening off camera or is some constructed conspiracy theory.

 

[Dysun]

Manderly never confirms the Frey Pies. It's a likely-but-not-confirmed theory.

Which is the whole problem with the books at this point, all the cool shit is happening off camera or is some constructed conspiracy theory.

It's about as likely as R+L=J, don't know why we have to beat around the bush

 

[Speevy]

I don't know if anyone has ever watched Rome, but just in case anyone plans to, I'll keep this comment brief and vague, with spoiler tags.

Again, Rome spoilers ahoy

Spoiler

There are several scenes of rape or unwanted sex in this show, and they happen to about three characters. Octavia is one such character, being forced to marry two different men. When she marries Antony, she doesn't love him at all, but must sleep with him on her wedding night. She consents but doesn't cry, and doesn't scream. In another scene, Titus Pullo whips his slave Gaia which turns into sex, which they both enjoy. There are seems of blatant rape, such as Antony grabbing the slave/farm girl on the road, Jocasta's rape, and Eirene being forced to have sex with Titus Pullo because she was a slave (though he later married her). The point I'm trying to make by bringing up Rome is that they addressed the whole spectrum of female consent, and this is a show about a time long before the middle ages.

 

[Violet_0]

nothing much to say about this week's episode, it was decent, the Arya scenes were great and

This Jaime and Bronn stuff is laughably stupid on so many levels.

well, this, but we kind of knew that already

 

[Judderman]

Manderly never confirms the Frey Pies. It's a likely-but-not-confirmed theory.

Which is the whole problem with the books at this point, all the cool shit is happening off camera or is some constructed conspiracy theory.

C'mon son.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Nothing about Sansa has ever been interesting in either the books or the show, so I don't really understand why people are upset about it.

Maybe they should have dropped her from this season like they did Bran then

 

[MasterOfPastures]

"You have followed this story all through the books, haven't you theon? Now watch it become a tv show..."

Gods damn you, HBO. Gods damn you.

 

[-griffy-]

And then someone posted this from Martin's livejournal about his views on fanfiction.

http://grrm.livejournal.com/151914.html

"Those are some of the reasons writers like me will not permit fanfic, but before I close, let me put aside the legal and financial aspects of all this for a moment, and talk about more personal ones. Here, I think, Diana Gabaldon absolutely hit the nail on the head in the latest of her blog posts on the subject. And here, she and I agree completely. Many years ago, I won a Nebula for a story called "Portraits of His Children," which was all about a writer's relationship with the characters he creates. I don't have any actual children, myself (Diana does). My characters are my children, I have been heard to say. I don't want people making off with them, thank you. Even people who say they love my children. I'm sure that's true, I don't doubt the sincerity of the affection, but still...

"I have sometimes allowed other writers to play with my children. In Wild Cards, for instance, which is a shared world. Lohengrin, Hoodoo Mama, Popinjay, the Turtle, and all my other WC creations have been written by other writers, and I have written their characters. But I submit, this is NOT at all the same thing. A shared world is a tightly controlled environment. In the case of Wild Cards, it's controlled by me. I decide who gets to borrow my creations, and I review their stories, and approve or disapproval what is done with them. "No, Popinjay would say it this way," I say, or "Sorry, the Turtle would never do that," or, more importantly (this has never come up in Wild Cards, but it did in some other shared worlds), "No, absolutely not, your character may not rape my character, I don't give a fuck how powerful you think it would be." "

That might be an interesting counter point if the TV show was fan fiction created without GRRM's approval, but it's not.

Regardless of what he thinks of the changes, his blog post demonstrates that he understands and accepts that changes are a necessary and unavoidable reality due to the differences in strengths and weaknesses between the two mediums. He's worked in TV before. He knew this going in, and he seems to accept that.

 

[Rentahamster]

You know they fuck it up bad when things like that don't bother us. Ramsan scenes are not bad in themselves, for example, it's the ridiculous path to get there that is bad.

Like, LF (Pedro in the show) just sent Sansa into WF expecting... what exactly? That she with her proven expertise in seduction techniques seduces Ramsay? LF who trains whores for a living should know that she is not ready. That she with her proven expertise in killing kills Ramsay? LF has hired countless killers in his time and should know she is not a killer. That Ramsay treats her well?

He sent Sansa into WF expecting that...she be in WF. That way, Cersei has a reason to go aggro and break the Lannister alliance with the Boltons, who is also going to clash with Stannis, weakening all 3 of them, and granting Littlefinger the title of Warden of the North if he can reclaim the North for the crown (for now).

Best case: He gets to be Warden of the North, and hopefully Sansa isn't completely reckt by then.

Not so best case: He gets to be Warden of the North, and Sansa is dead, disfigured, or crazy, or incapacitated somehow.

He don't give a shit. As Varys said, He'd see the kingdom burn to the ground, as long as he could be ruler of the ashes.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

He sent Sansa into WF expecting that...she be in WF. That way, Cersei has a reason to go aggro and break the Lannister alliance with the Boltons, who is also going to clash with Stannis, weakening all 3 of them, and granting Littlefinger the title of Warden of the North if he can reclaim the North for the crown (for now).

Best case: He gets to be Warden of the North, and hopefully Sansa isn't completely reckt by then.

Not so best case: He gets to be Warden of the North, and Sansa is dead, disfigured, or crazy, or incapacitated somehow.

He don't give a shit. As Varys said, He'd see the kingdom burn to the ground, as long as he could be ruler of the ashes.

Best case: He comes to claim his title as Warden of the North, and gets reckt by Sansa.

 

[Speevy]

I know that's the end game of all this, and the reason she got such a shocking rape scene. It might well be a redemption thing for theon, but once she gets any kind of power for herself, she's going to have Littlefinger killed.

 

[Brakke]

It's about as likely as R+L=J, don't know why we have to beat around the bush

I dunno. It's probably true sure but it's another in a long line of things that's probably going to be accompanied by someone pulling back the curtain several hundred pages later explaining it. Like Littlefinger explaining the Bran-dagger way after the fact. GRR's so precious about his Big Shocks, it's tired.

Freys getting theirs is cool and all but the Red Wedding was such a long time ago. With the impending invasion of Winter, Victarion rolling around with a fucking lavarm, glass candles in the Citadel, etc etc it's just like: who cares? The world is about to be blasted to slag by the power of a constellation of magical weapons of mass destruction, who cares if a bad dude does some accidental cannibalism?

Plus, South Park already did it. Takes the weight out of a thing if South Park already did it.

 

[Rentahamster]

Best case: He comes to claim his title as Warden of the North, and gets reckt by Sansa.

I meant that it is the best case from his perspective. Based on what we've been told by the show so far, I'd expect that's what he's gambling on, but the safety of Sansa is expendable compared to the endgame of weakening all the other kingdoms so he can then dominate them and gain the crown.

 

[Rentahamster]

I know that's the end game of all this, and the reason she got such a shocking rape scene. It might well be a redemption thing for theon, but once she gets any kind of power for herself, she's going to have Littlefinger killed.

Why? Unless she gets some new information somehow, she still credits Littlefinger for saving her from Joffery, and teaching her how to play the game.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

Why? Unless she gets some new information somehow, she still credits Littlefinger for saving her from Joffery, and teaching her how to play the game.

Totally got your meaning, was just having some fun with what SHOULD happen

And regardless of being saved from Joff or not I'd wager she had a bone to pick with LF as early as the dinner scene, and certainly does now. If she has a modicum of power in the north, he's dead.

 

[Ganzlinger]

He sent Sansa into WF expecting that...she be in WF. That way, Cersei has a reason to go aggro and break the Lannister alliance with the Boltons, who is also going to clash with Stannis, weakening all 3 of them, and granting Littlefinger the title of Warden of the North if he can reclaim the North for the crown (for now).

Best case: He gets to be Warden of the North, and hopefully Sansa isn't completely reckt by then.

Not so best case: He gets to be Warden of the North, and Sansa is dead, disfigured, or crazy, or incapacitated somehow.

He don't give a shit. As Varys said, He'd see the kingdom burn to the ground, as long as he could be ruler of the ashes.

That seems to be the case. Disappointing because in the books we don't know his point of view, if he really cares about Sansa. If he has some affection towards her it could be an interesting way to develop his eventual fall as Sansa could manipulate him or something like that.

 

[Patriots7]

He sent Sansa into WF expecting that...she be in WF. That way, Cersei has a reason to go aggro and break the Lannister alliance with the Boltons, who is also going to clash with Stannis, weakening all 3 of them, and granting Littlefinger the title of Warden of the North if he can reclaim the North for the crown (for now).

Best case: He gets to be Warden of the North, and hopefully Sansa isn't completely reckt by then.

Not so best case: He gets to be Warden of the North, and Sansa is dead, disfigured, or crazy, or incapacitated somehow.

He don't give a shit. As Varys said, He'd see the kingdom burn to the ground, as long as he could be ruler of the ashes.

Hinges on:
- Nobody mentioning that Littlefinger sent Sansa to the Boltons
- Nobody mentioning that Littlefinger has had Sansa in the Vale for at least months
- The Bolton's not speaking to the family they happen to have brokered an alliance with
- He gets the title of Warden of the North...and then what? He hands Sansa over? He kills Sansa? He breaks his alliance with the Lannisters?

It's a convoluted justification that has been spun to get Sansa into Jeyne's position.

 

[Dysun]

I dunno. It's probably true sure but it's another in a long line of things that's probably going to be accompanied by someone pulling back the curtain several hundred pages later explaining it. Like Littlefinger explaining the Bran-dagger way after the fact. GRR's so precious about his Big Shocks, it's tired.

Freys getting theirs is cool and all but the Red Wedding was such a long time ago. With the impending invasion of Winter, Victarion rolling around with a fucking lavarm, glass candles in the Citadel, etc etc it's just like: who cares? The world is about to be blasted to slag by the power of a constellation of magical weapons of mass destruction, who cares if a bad dude does some accidental cannibalism?

Plus, South Park already did it. Takes the weight out of a thing if South Park already did it.

This has all been true since the first (and last) chapter of the first book, the invasion of the white walkers and dragons is older than the Red Wedding. Manderly, Freys, Boltons and the boiling pot of Winterfell about to be sieged by Stannis is compelling to me, without reservation. The strongest material post-ASOS

 

[Lothar]

Why? Unless she gets some new information somehow, she still credits Littlefinger for saving her from Joffery, and teaching her how to play the game.

It doesn't look like Littlefinger taught her anything. She has so little skills at the game, she can't even get Theon out of the wedding night. Margarery would have done that. Or at least made a good attempt at it.

 

[-griffy-]

It doesn't look like Littlefinger taught her anything. She has so little skills at the game, she can't even get Theon out of the wedding night. Margarery would have done that. Or at least made a good attempt at it.

Marge is a seasoned pro. Sansa just discovered she's in over her head. The way she shut down Myranda earlier in the day is something though.

 

[Rentahamster]

Hinges on:
- Nobody mentioning that Littlefinger has had Sansa in the Vale for at least months

If you can accept that LF kept Sansa a secret in the Vale in the books, then you can accept it in the show.

- Nobody mentioning that Littlefinger sent Sansa to the Boltons

Does Cersei still have enough loyal spies all the way in the North who are only looking for a "girl with red hair"? The only reason Pod recognized her without the red hair is because he actually knows what her face looks like.

One Sansa unmasks herself in WF, what is the likelihood of there being spies in the heart of WF who are loyal to Cersei? They didn't even have other houses as witnesses at the wedding either, so the secret is still fairly tight.

Those who are unloyal to the Boltons yet still loyal to the real North/the Starks aren't going to spill the beans either. Why would they give Sansa up to a Lannister who wants to murder her?

Hinges on:
- The Bolton's not speaking to the family they happen to have brokered an alliance with

What indicates that they are not speaking? For show, the Bolton/Lannister alliance is still there on paper, and as the Roose/Ramsay conversation showed earlier, since Tywin is dead, for all intents and purposes, it is functionally worthless.

- He gets the title of Warden of the North...and then what? He hands Sansa over? He kills Sansa? He breaks his alliance with the Lannisters?

He gets the title of Warden of the North AND Lord of the Vale, and he suddenly has a lot more power and influence to wield, along with the Lannister army, the Bolton army, and Stannis' army being a lot weaker.

He then does with Sansa whatever is most useful for his purposes.

 

[Rentahamster]

It doesn't look like Littlefinger taught her anything. She has so little skills at the game, she can't even get Theon out of the wedding night. Margarery would have done that. Or at least made a good attempt at it.

No he didn't. She only got whatever she observed, but that's enough for her to think that he did. From her point of view, Littlefinger is the only person who seems interested in her welfare and future, compared to all the other sadistic and crazy assholes she has had to be around for the past 4 years.

 

[badcrumble]

I think the battle will take place in episode 9, and we will not see how it ends, jon will receive the pink letter at the end of episode 10

I could see the battle happening, but I don't think the pink letter is gonna happen. The show doesn't generally do fake-outs like that, nor does it rely on point of view as a narrative device that way. The only real exception is the fake Bran/Rickon death in S2.

Jon is "dying" this season for sure, it will be the cliffhanger. That or his ressurrection.

I don't think they can get away with that as a cliffhanger because tons of people who don't even seek this stuff out actively will still get spoiled by stuff like io9 articles showing up on Facebook.

It's not really good as a cliffhanger in the books either, because fucking nobody believes he's dead for good, lol.

Much better to actually show him coming back to life, which is what ADWD should have done too (unless it doesn't happen until a long way into TWOW).