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The Mary Sue has decided to stop promoting GoT due to last night's Sansa scene.

http://www.themarysue.com/we-will-no-longer-be-promoting-hbos-game-of-thrones/

A bit of an overreaction IMO.

I wouldn't stop watching the show but they explained their reasons pretty clearly and are entitled to not promote a show they're uncomfortable with.
It's still a bit too fresh for me but this really rubbed the wrong way, regardless of the books (let's not pretend the show cares). I guess it was 2edgy4me.

 

[Electric_ Cthulhu]

I really hope that Ramsay (and Roose) will die before the season ends. It annoyed me in the books when the story shifted more and more towards them. I think they are pretty one dimensional lunatics with no redeeming features.

It's time for Sansa to get her revenge. Maybe her killing Ramsay will be mirrored by Arya killing Meryn Trant in the same episode. The Stark girls getting stuff done!

 

[ultron87]

I guess the folks at the mary sue aren't book readers.

They literally talk about what happens in the books in the article.

 

[Veritigo_X]

I don't think the scene itself was that bad. But I think ending the episode on that scene was a really poor decision. It just left a really bad taste in a lot of people's mouths and effectively ruined what was an otherwise good episode (the Dorne stuff being the lone exception).

Good thing Silicon Valley was on right after. I definitely needed a good laugh after that scene.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I agree that ending the episode on it was the lame part. Trying too hard to make weddings that go bad a thing on the show. Edgy indeed.

They did it for the shock factor in the end, they could have done an implied rape scene or just skipped over it and let it be assumed but they went for the shock, people were shocked and here we are.

 

[Anton Sugar]

well she knows the boltons are bad people, they killed her family, just knowing that is not reason enough to have her run away, no, I don't agree here. if that was the case she would not have agreed to come in the first place.

she needed to be attacked personally.

he could have started to torture her like reek I guess, but I doubt the audience would have accepted that more, and sorry to say, but raping her in her wedding night was not only from the books, it simply makes the most sense.

At the very least, do you understand why "Sansa is continually tortured by her new king husband and must escape" is not an enticing storyline or character arc?

 

[Kain]

Yep, the writers hate weddings even more than George. But they still hate the Ironborn more.

 

[Dysun]

Apparently these guys are amazing at adaptation, terrible at original story creation.

This is no surprise to anybody who has been paying attention. Almost all of their invented story arcs have fallen flat (Karl Tanner, Ros, Dorne, Yara), only the character interaction has been good when they have deviated (Arya/Tywin).
Always thought it was hilarious how certain people were dying for AFFC/ADWD to be chopped up and dropped to move further into uncharted territory without George to lean on.

This is going to get much funnier next year

 

[Iksenpets]

Not really, last season's colossal fuckup and poor treatment of rape in general is listed as a contributing factor too.

Yeah, they've always talked about how they don't listen to criticism and they're not afraid to shock or offend, this is just what inevitably comes with that kind of attitude. I mean, we'll see how ratings hold up, but I'd say that's a justified reaction for a site that caters particularly to an audience interested in how women are portrayed in the media.

I don't think the scene itself was that bad. But I think ending the episode on that scene was a really poor decision. It just left a really bad taste in a lot of people's mouths and effectively ruined what was an otherwise good episode (the Dorne stuff being the lone exception).

For me it's just how the scene didn't seem to regard Sansa's character development at all. Like, do we need her reduced to pained crying again? I think you could have had a wedding night scene where Sansa maintains some sense of agency, and is able to maintain a strong face throughout the encounter. No, she's not going to "control" Ramsay like some people want, but she could at least gotten to maintain her composure and dignity a bit, instead of just being bent over and violated. She was going along with it, doing what she had to do as part of the plan, but then the writers had to throw in the bit where Ramsay gets frustrated and turns it violent.

 

[Moff]

At the very least, do you understand why "Sansa is continually tortured by her new king husband and must escape" is not an enticing storyline or character arc?

yes, I already wrote on the last page the scene was intended to go too far and it did. but as I explained above, they needed to give her a reason to run away.

 

[gutshot]

Yep, the writers hate weddings even more than George. But they still hate the Ironborn more.

This is the real travesty of this season right here. Instead of badass Vikings we are getting cheeseball Sand Snakes.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

This is the real travesty of this season right here. Instead of badass Vikings we are getting cheeseball Sand Snakes.

Both could have been cut

Just have Doran and Hotah plan the next moves with marriage and laying claim to Throne. Ellaria pleading about revenge and eventually seeing the bright side of Doran's plan.

 

[real_slime]

I stopped watch the show in season 2 at one point for 'this is disgusting' style reasons. Then I picked it backed up at the start of season 4 (i watched the stuff I'd missed, too). Last season with the Jamie/Cersei rape scene - wait was that last season uhhh - I was ready to quit it again but then I think the season ended and I forgot about that by the time this one started.

Now the show has depressed, annoyed and disgusted me again.

Y'know, it isn't just the showing of rape. I don't have an inherent problem with that being used or shown as part of a story - although I can't think of many reasons to be excited about watching that kind of thing, unless it was a major theme - it's the way this show does it. It's pointless. Maybe you could make a case for it being shown a couple of times, or referred to as happening, but it's the way the show seems to just revel in itself.

I mean they used this to end an episode. It's the last thing you see, poor wee Sansa getting the shit kicked out of her again. And we don't even on Sansa, we end on Theon!

It's just a pointlessly disgusting show some times, and not in a good or fun or fascinating way. In a dull, repetitive, poorly thought out way that enriches pretty much nothing about the story.

What did it add? Fuck all.

 

[NeoGiff]

Back to the Stannis and Ramsay Show. Now that we've established

Spoiler

Ramsay is at least present at Stannis' camp

, what do we think will happen?

Some primitive form of the

Spoiler

Night Lamp theory, perhaps? Stannis sets fire to his own camp and lures Ramsay in, to... to do what? I'm desperately trying to come up with something other than Ramsay actually being successful in setting fire to Stannis' camp

.

 

[Hex]

Why does she need to be raped to understand that Ramsey is a horrible person? They could have easily given her motivation to run away without that.
.

She doesn't have to be.
But while I understand it is a horrible act, why should it be off the table when murder, butchering, maiming, torture and disfuguring is not?
Because some find it more disturbing?
There have been children murdered on the show, pregnant women, countless innocent people butchered in some form or another.
Sansa is alive, she will have a chance for revenge.

I think that the show should use all of the brutality and visceral tools that it has, and it has done so.
Reek has been brutalized and completely broken, hell what has happened to him has not had near the outrage or uproar.
He was a bad person yes, but has been completely broken and violated mentally and physically and then ...well chopped.

 

[Moff]

Back to the Stannis and Ramsay Show. Now that we've established

Spoiler

Ramsay is at least present at Stannis' camp

, what do we think will happen?

Some primitive form of the

Spoiler

Night Lamp theory, perhaps? Stannis sets fire to his own camp and lures Ramsay in, to... to do what? I'm desperately trying to come up with something other than Ramsay actually being successful in setting fire to Stannis' camp

.

a

Spoiler

wildfire bomb

?
a

Spoiler

naked melisandre, ready to devour ramsey as soon as he enters her

 

[Kain]

Back to the Stannis and Ramsay Show. Now that we've established

Spoiler

Ramsay is at least present at Stannis' camp

, what do we think will happen?

Some primitive form of the

Spoiler

Night Lamp theory, perhaps? Stannis sets fire to his own camp and lures Ramsay in, to... to do what? I'm desperately trying to come up with something other than Ramsay actually being successful in setting fire to Stannis' camp

.

I try not think about that as I get depressed. The Mannis is doomed.

 

[Burt]

This is no surprise to anybody who has been paying attention. Almost all of their invented story arcs have fallen flat (Karl Tanner, Ros, Dorne, Yara), only the character interaction has been good when they have deviated (Arya/Tywin).
Always thought it was hilarious how certain people were dying for AFFC/ADWD to be chopped up and dropped to move further into uncharted territory without George to lean on.

This is going to get much funnier next year

It's been a mixed bag.

Ros and Karl Tanner were fine.

Dorne's terrible.

Yara's a joke.

I'm okay with Brienne and Pod meeting Arya and the Hound.

They've done a pretty good job with deciding who and what to drop. People complain about skipping Greyjoys for Dorne, but look at Dorne and Yara and try to argue that going Greyjoys would turn out any better.

Consolidating Sansa into the Winterfell plot is a good move. The Jeyne Poole stuff in the book was always crap. It could've been Gendry in a wig and Theon still would've called him Arya. Having Sansa actually at Winterfell adds a ton of weight to the plot and is much cleaner overall.

 

[NeoGiff]

a

Spoiler

wildfire bomb

?

The thought actually crossed my mind too, as implausible as it is.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Back to the Stannis and Ramsay Show. Now that we've established

Spoiler

Ramsay is at least present at Stannis' camp

, what do we think will happen?

Some primitive form of the

Spoiler

Night Lamp theory, perhaps? Stannis sets fire to his own camp and lures Ramsay in, to... to do what? I'm desperately trying to come up with something other than Ramsay actually being successful in setting fire to Stannis' camp

.

Spoiler

That is probably exactly what will happen. Stannis gets snowed in, Ramsay sets tents on fire. Someone dies - Shireen or Stanni's wife or Stannis himself, I don't know. Will be a big anti climatic end instead of an actual Winterfell battle

Oh, this will happen in Episode 8.

 

[Iksenpets]

Back to the Stannis and Ramsay Show. Now that we've established

Spoiler

Ramsay is at least present at Stannis' camp

, what do we think will happen?

Some primitive form of the

Spoiler

Night Lamp theory, perhaps? Stannis sets fire to his own camp and lures Ramsay in, to... to do what? I'm desperately trying to come up with something other than Ramsay actually being successful in setting fire to Stannis' camp

.

Spoiler

Stannis setting his own camp on fire is the exact sort of "let's take a book plot and turn it up to 11 in a way that makes it completely insane" idea that D&D love, lol.

I think maybe they just want a Stannis/Bolton skirmish before the season ends, to make up for this plot maybe not being resolved by the end. And then they want it to end on a Ramsay advantage to make us all nervous.

All the Water Garden scenes looked more like dress rehearsals than stuff that deserved to be in a final cut.

Apparently, they had very little time to shoot at that location so this is what we got.

Yeah, I'm kind of reminded of the Jon Snow stuff in season 2 and the first half of three, where they were clearly limited by filming in the Icelandic winter. It has the same sense of every scene being rushed and a bit too short.

 

[Majmun]

Wow, so many shit is happening that I haven't read in the books. It almost makes me want to stop watching the show. Totally warping my ASOIAF universe.

 

[Moff]

I think the battle will take place in episode 9, and we will not see how it ends, jon will receive the pink letter at the end of episode 10

 

[Kain]

I think the battle will take place in episode 9, and we will not see how it ends, jon will receive the pink letter at the end of episode 10

Jon is "dying" this season for sure, it will be the cliffhanger. That or his ressurrection.

 

[Mxrz]

Back to the Stannis and Ramsay Show. Now that we've established

Spoiler

Ramsay is at least present at Stannis' camp

, what do we think will happen?

Some primitive form of the

Spoiler

Night Lamp theory, perhaps? Stannis sets fire to his own camp and lures Ramsay in, to... to do what? I'm desperately trying to come up with something other than Ramsay actually being successful in setting fire to Stannis' camp

.

Is it a big deal if he does?

I figure we're still on track for the Bastard Letter. Brienne taking Sansa and Reek, Stannis possibly dead.

 

[Speevy]

What the hell is a kitchen mouse? Just a mouse that comes into the kitchen?

 

[cartoon_soldier]

I think Ramsay

Spoiler

Sends a letter to Jon, talking about how he has wed Sansa, tortured her and raped her.
He then burns the Stannis tents and effectively blocks that army from doing any harm.
Jon reads the letter and decides to ride to Winterfell and gets stabbed.
Littlefinger finds out and decides it is of no use to send the Vale army because there was no battle. He realizes it is best to leave Sansa where she is.

Spoiler

I fucking hope I am wrong

 

[Euron]

Where did that image come from?

 

[Speevy]

Is it a big deal if he does?

I figure we're still on track for the Bastard Letter. Brienne taking Sansa and Reek, Stannis possibly dead.

It's a big freaking deal. Stannis has the biggest army, he's the best military commander.

Spoiler

He may lose, but to a man who has never even set foot on a battlefield? In a fire?

That's not ironic or poetic. It's just dumb.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

It's a big freaking deal. Stannis has the biggest army, he's the best military commander.

Spoiler

He may lose, but to a man who has never even set foot on a battlefield? In a fire?

That's not ironic or poetic. It's just dumb.

Agreed.

Spoilers?

 

[Moff]

Jon is "dying" this season for sure, it will be the cliffhanger. That or his ressurrection.

yes that's what I meant, the pink letter scene ends with his stabbing

 

[Nodnol]

All caught up.

Iwan Rheon and Alfie Allen are two of the best young talents on the show. That last scene...Allen can convey such personal struggle without saying a word.

 

[Hex]

It's a big freaking deal. Stannis has the biggest army, he's the best military commander.

Spoiler

He may lose, but to a man who has never even set foot on a battlefield? In a fire?

That's not ironic or poetic. It's just dumb.

It would have to be some serious "You pissed off the one god" with the Mel laying down some I told you so with the seriousness.

 

[BobTheFork]

Spoiler

Stannis setting his own camp on fire is the exact sort of "let's take a book plot and turn it up to 11 in a way that makes it completely insane" idea that D&D love, lol.

I was wondering after the episode but I'm convinced that the next 2-3 years of this thread will be nothing but stupid 'jokes' like this for every episode and scene ever.

Can't wait for 'Oh, HBO must not have let D&D put a rape in this scene of Bran and BloodRaven talking lulz'

"Oh D&D added extra fire to make this battle more SHOCKING lulz"

Has anyone made a '[ ] episodes since last rape scene' sign yet, because it's pretty clever.

FFS, once the show over-reaches the books are we allowed to transplant into the other thread as long as we never talk about the books?

 

[beril]

At the very least, do you understand why "Sansa is continually tortured by her new king husband and must escape" is not an enticing storyline or character arc?

Nothing about Sansa has ever been interesting in either the books or the show, so I don't really understand why people are upset about it.

 

[Anton Sugar]

She doesn't have to be.
But while I understand it is a horrible act, why should it be off the table when murder, butchering, maiming, torture and disfuguring is not?
Because some find it more disturbing?
There have been children murdered on the show, pregnant women, countless innocent people butchered in some form or another.
Sansa is alive, she will have a chance for revenge.

I think that the show should use all of the brutality and visceral tools that it has, and it has done so.
Reek has been brutalized and completely broken, hell what has happened to him has not had near the outrage or uproar.
He was a bad person yes, but has been completely broken and violated mentally and physically and then ...well chopped.

Comparing it to Reek is pretty uneven, considering a huge part of Reek/Theon's arc comes directly from his torture and disfiguring.

Adding brutality "just because" is sloppy and, at worst, irresponsible. It's not an effective way to tell a story, especially when we have had 4+ seasons that SHOW us how brutal the world is. It's tiring.

It's especially tiring because we, as viewers, have NO reason to expect that Sansa's rape (or sexual abuse or whatever you want to call it) will lead to any meaningful development or character growth. Cersei certainly didn't, but that's partly because the directors/producers (or whomever) didn't think it was rape. Since it sounds like the same is going to happen here, it'll just be "another day in Westeros!" At this point, Sansa has almost been through it all except sexual abuse, so it feels like a cheap "checkbox" kind of scene that likely won't add much to her character or her story.

Like I said, there are plenty of opportunities to show Ramsey's animal side without resorting to sexual trauma on a character whose entire existence for the past few years have been defined by trauma.

Nothing about Sansa has ever been interesting in either the books or the show, so I don't really understand why people are upset about it.

"She's always been shitty, so why should we expect the creators to make her better?"

 

[Cybit]

So much anger.

Show now has years of showing how 'evil' Ramsey is, and you know the book version is even worse. Yet expected Sansa--flipping Sansa--to somehow pull one over him on their wedding night. And she got off light compared to the terrible stuff the book version does w/ Jeyne.

Ramsey and Roose are likely the last human 'villains' before the White Walker stuff kicks into high gear. Wouldn't expect them to die until next season. Probably to either Stannis-kickass or Zombie Jon.

I'm okay with Littlefinger not knowing everything about Ramsey given the location, and all the stuff Littlefinger has been dealing with in the vale and King's landing. If he does know, and didn't give a flip, makes sense too.

Yeah - I am not surprised at the reaction; but Sansa gets off unbelievably light compared to GRRM's version. It's very telling that TMS's reaction is based off the fact that a much lighter version of the scene happens to Sansa, but they're perfectly fine with a significantly darker version of it happening to another character. Hell, even the Cersei/Jaime scene which was "changed" from the books was pointed out by GRRM to not actually be changed at all potentially (GRRM pointed out that in the book; the scene is done from Jaime's POV...which may not be a fully accurate accounting).

That said; so far the show has been pretty good overall - willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for now. If this leads to nothing...then sadness. But as shown earlier in the episode - GoT is pretty good at having even little details be very important much later down the road.

 

[JakeD]

if people are already saying "fuck this" (and i think many people are serious when they say it this time)....

how bad will it be if the season ends with stannis losing, jon getting stabbed, and sansa failing to get revenge? we'll probably get cersei's walk of shame but i don't think it will be enough to keep a huge amount of people from walking away.

sansa will escape but doing it without killing a bolton or two will not be enough to satisfy fans at this point.

 

[Croatoan]

Jon is "dying" this season for sure, it will be the cliffhanger. That or his ressurrection.

We still don't know IF Jon dies at all. I do think that will be the last thing that happens this season (his stabbing) but there will be no resolution until next season.

 

[Burt]

It's a big freaking deal. Stannis has the biggest army, he's the best military commander.

Spoiler

He may lose, but to a man who has never even set foot on a battlefield? In a fire?

That's not ironic or poetic. It's just dumb.

Stannis doesn't beat the weather and gets caught out on the way to Winterfell. His men are freezing, starving, and/or already otherwise half-dead when they meet the Boltons. And it isn't like its Ramsay squaring off man to man. It's completely reasonable to think that the Boltons wipe the floor with Stannis' army.

Stannis has to get gone eventually. He's not going to be the king, and will never settle for less. The show has gone a little ahead of the books and shown us Littlefinger's plan, so we know that he's going to show up and help push whichever side has the upper hand over the top. It's likely that the Boltons will really and truly come out on top, getting rid of Stannis (and opening up Melissandre to start serving the real Azor Azhai), and then Littlefinger will get rid of the Boltons, leaving the North all to himself.

 

[schlongdog]

Comparing it to Reek is pretty uneven, considering a huge part of Reek/Theon's arc comes directly from his torture and disfiguring.

Adding brutality "just because" is sloppy and, at worst, irresponsible. It's not an effective way to tell a story, especially when we have had 4+ seasons that SHOW us how brutal the world is. It's tiring.

It's especially tiring because we, as viewers, have NO reason to expect that Sansa's rape (or sexual abuse or whatever you want to call it) will lead to any meaningful development or character growth. Cersei certainly didn't, but that's partly because the directors/producers (or whomever) didn't think it was rape. Since it sounds like the same is going to happen here, it'll just be "another day in Westeros!" At this point, Sansa has almost been through it all except sexual abuse, so it feels like a cheap "checkbox" kind of scene that likely won't add much to her character or her story.

Like I said, there are plenty of opportunities to show Ramsey's animal side without resorting to sexual trauma on a character whose entire existence for the past few years have been defined by trauma.

But it wasn't "just because" the show has made an explicit point this season of saying Sansa's marriage to Tyrion wasn't consummated and therefore it was essentially void. With this in mind it's important for the Bolton marriage to be consummated immediately from the Bolton's point of view.

and that consummation, with Ramsey being involved, was never going to be a romantic lovemaking scene.

 

[Cybit]

if people are already saying "fuck this" (and i think many people are serious when they say it this time)....

how bad will it be if the season ends with stannis losing, jon getting stabbed, and sansa failing to get revenge? we'll probably get cersei's walk of shame but i don't think it will be enough to keep a huge amount of people from walking away.

sansa will escape but doing it without killing a bolton or two will not be enough to satisfy fans at this point.

Yeah - I think the show may have done too good of a job in getting people invested into the characters. I don't think they (those fans) can handle the darkness of the actual series (books or TV); especially on TV where it is actually shown (rather than merely imagined).

 

[Moff]

Like I said, there are plenty of opportunities to show Ramsey's animal side without resorting to sexual trauma on a character whose entire existence for the past few years have been defined by trauma.

I'd really like to read a few of those. I mean sansa already knew the boltons betrayed and murdered her brother and her mother. that ramsay has tortured and broken theon into a creature called reek. and she still stayed and married him and told the other girl that she was still brave and willing to go forward with all that knowledge.
what other opportunities than an attack on herself were there to make her finally flee that place?

 

[Speevy]

Why is Bronn allowed to keep his weapon after everyone else has dropped theirs? It's like they don't care what he does.

 

[Iksenpets]

if people are already saying "fuck this" (and i think many people are serious when they say it this time)....

how bad will it be if the season ends with stannis losing, jon getting stabbed, and sansa failing to get revenge? we'll probably get cersei's walk of shame but i don't think it will be enough to keep a huge amount of people from walking away.

sansa will escape but doing it without killing a bolton or two will not be enough to satisfy fans at this point.

The Walk of Shame may make things worse, given the particular nature of some of the complaints. Even of that scene is really good, and completely faithful to the book, there are going to be a subset of viewers upset about Sansa who will be predisposed to see it as just another scene demeaning a female character. Obviously Cersei isn't Sansa, but that scene's going to bring its own controversy, especially with non-book readers who won't be suspecting it.

I was wondering after the episode but I'm convinced that the next 2-3 years of this thread will be nothing but stupid 'jokes' like this for every episode and scene ever.

Can't wait for 'Oh, HBO must not have let D&D put a rape in this scene of Bran and BloodRaven talking lulz'

"Oh D&D added extra fire to make this battle more SHOCKING lulz"

Has anyone made a '[ ] episodes since last rape scene' sign yet, because it's pretty clever.

FFS, once the show over-reaches the books are we allowed to transplant into the other thread as long as we never talk about the books?

Sorry if I annoyed with the snark. I really do like D&D! That was more of a teasing out of love joke for me, but I guess wth the current tone of the thread and my own posts that maybe doesn't come off.

 

[Speevy]

Stannis doesn't beat the weather and gets caught out on the way to Winterfell. His men are freezing, starving, and/or already otherwise half-dead when they meet the Boltons. And it isn't like its Ramsay squaring off man to man. It's completely reasonable to think that the Boltons wipe the floor with Stannis' army.

Stannis has to get gone eventually. He's not going to be the king, and will never settle for less. The show has gone a little ahead of the books and shown us Littlefinger's plan, so we know that he's going to show up and help push whichever side has the upper hand over the top. It's likely that the Boltons will really and truly come out on top, getting rid of Stannis (and opening up Melissandre to start serving the real Azor Azhai), and then Littlefinger will get rid of the Boltons, leaving the North all to himself.

Right, but Ramsay had his fun. It's time for him to get gone too. Even if they had his father overcome Stannis, Ramsay has to die.

 

[Pyramid head]

Nothing about Sansa has ever been interesting in either the books or the show, so I don't really understand why people are upset about it.

Nothing about Danny's plot has been very interesting either and I doubt it would be much improved by having her dragons all die, then Illyrio turn up at her next wedding with 3 more stone eggs.

 

[Burt]

Right, but Ramsay had his fun. It's time for him to get gone too. Even if they had his father overcome Stannis, Ramsay has to die.

Littlefinger's gonna go Ned Stark 2.0 on the whole house as soon as they limp back to Winterfell from the Stannis battle. "Lords of the North and the Vale", my ass.

Then he'll get his when Sansa eventually poisons him or something.

 

[Croatoan]

if people are already saying "fuck this" (and i think many people are serious when they say it this time)....

how bad will it be if the season ends with stannis losing, jon getting stabbed, and sansa failing to get revenge? we'll probably get cersei's walk of shame but i don't think it will be enough to keep a huge amount of people from walking away.

sansa will escape but doing it without killing a bolton or two will not be enough to satisfy fans at this point.

I have a feeling a combination of Stannis losing and Jon getting stabbed will tank the series. I was legit shook when I googled Jon Snow and found out he gets stabbed. I mean, like I could never actually read these books. I like books were the reader isn't shit on constantly.

People can only take the "good guys" losing so much before they say fuck it, no more literary torture.

That said I still believe Ep 1 of the next season, or in the next book, will have Jon alive and in a coma. Possibly cruising around in Ghost for the time being?

From what I understand GRRM has never killed a main POV character from their own POV. Furthermore what is the point of Jon's lineage hinting if there is no payoff?

 

[Moff]

the worst part about jon's stabbing is probably that it won't be as obvious as in the books that he is not really dead.