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[iamblades]

Hinges on:
- Nobody mentioning that Littlefinger sent Sansa to the Boltons
- Nobody mentioning that Littlefinger has had Sansa in the Vale for at least months
- The Bolton's not speaking to the family they happen to have brokered an alliance with
- He gets the title of Warden of the North...and then what? He hands Sansa over? He kills Sansa? He breaks his alliance with the Lannisters?

It's a convoluted justification that has been spun to get Sansa into Jeyne's position.

^^

None of that story arc makes any sense, the showrunners are trying like hell to consolidate and streamline disconnected plot lines without actually thinking if the plot makes any logical sense.

The pointless and terrible Dorne side plot makes their attempts to combine plots that don't really fit even worse, that shit should have never been invented.

The way I see it all of the plotting issues the show runners are having is from abandoning the riverlands/BwB plot lines, as that basically tied the various plots to do. Without that plotline you have to think up this bullshit trip to dorne to give Jaime something to do, you have to put Sansa back it a shit position so you can continue the Brienne story(in a really shitty way).

This is why I never understood the people who said cutting LSH doesn't matter. The riverlands plot ties all of the westeros story lines together. People always argue that because a character doesn't make many impactful moves that you can write them out, but then you have to either write out every character that is involved in that character's plots, or give them something new to do. The small changes over time add up to the point there there is nothing connected the plot threads anymore, and we are about reaching that point with the number of changes the show is making.

You cut like at least a 3rd of the time of Daenerys's shit which is too slow moving anyway, you cut Dorne and you cut the iron islanders even earlier if you were going to cut them anyway, and you have plenty of time for a riverlands plot line that gives Jaime and Brienne something to do that isn't complete shit.

 

[Speevy]

Okay check it out. The wars are over and Sansa has assumed the role of the victor's wife/wardeness or what have you.

Littlefinger is so sure he's about to capture Sansa or betray the crown and take the north, whatever his play is, and she doublecrosses him, has her men take his head and claims the north for herself, rebeling against the crown.

Cersei can't do shit about it.

 

[Mxrz]

Sansa has about the same odds as Stannis does of making it to the end game. She was mean to Jon/Arya, liked Joffery at one point. She's dooooomed, too.

 

[Speevy]

Sansa has about the same odds as Stannis does of making it to the end game. She was mean to Jon/Arya, liked Joffery at one point. She's dooooomed, too.

But Arya will kill innocent people.

 

[badcrumble]

Sansa has about the same odds as Stannis does of making it to the end game. She was mean to Jon/Arya, liked Joffery at one point. She's dooooomed, too.

Eh, I dunno. Just like Bran, Arya, and Jon, she's had a pretty concrete arc of getting "trained" in something - in her case, playing the game and learning how to survive politics without weaponry.

I'm not saying she'll survive the endgame itself, but she'll be a part of it for sure.

 

[Dany]

This season has been kinda underwhelming. GoT usually are slow churners season to season but by condensing the story/accelerating it, it just shows how ridiculous everyone is acting.

 

[Mxrz]

Yeah but Arya is plucky. That counts for a lot in the tv/literary world.

Even if Sansa lives, her claim is pretty much null as soon as Rickton shows up. At best she's married off to someone not horrible.

* actually, Riverlands have a heir anymore? Cat's brother Brutus still alive? Cant recall.

 

[Rentahamster]

The way I see it all of the plotting issues the show runners are having is from abandoning the riverlands/BwB plot lines, as that basically tied the various plots to do. Without that plotline you have to think up this bullshit trip to dorne to give Jaime something to do, you have to put Sansa back it a shit position so you can continue the Brienne story(in a really shitty way).

They did go over the overarching story with GRRM, so I'd assume they have it worked out a lot further than what we've seen so far. It just makes little sense to us right now because we're still perceiving it through the influence of the book storylines.

 

[Lothar]

Marge is a seasoned pro. Sansa just discovered she's in over her head. The way she shut down Myranda earlier in the day is something though.

If she's over her head already on day 1 of the wedding, then she's in trouble. How does it make any sense that she thinks she has the slightest possibility of assassinating Roose and Ramsay? What is she doing there?

 

[Speevy]

"Why does it matter what I wore? Did I really just betray everything I stand for? Of course it mattered what I wore."
-Thoughts of Margaery's Gay Brother Loras

 

[Zabka]

If she's over her head already on day 1 of the wedding, then she's in trouble. How does it make any sense that she thinks she has the slightest possibility of assassinating Roose and Ramsay? What is she doing there?

Waiting for Stannis to kick the Boltons out and putting her in charge of Winterfell.

 

[hoos30]

Does he plan on releasing the winds of winter or will it be an anthology of the sample chapters ten years from now?

Jesus, don't give him any ideas.

 

[Speevy]

Littlefinger will teleport to Meereen next to tell Dany about Sansa in Winterfell and pledge his support.

 

[-griffy-]

If she's over her head already on day 1 of the wedding, then she's in trouble. How does it make any sense that she thinks she has the slightest possibility of assassinating Roose and Ramsay? What is she doing there?

Yeah, obviously she's in trouble. That's kind of the point of the plot line at this juncture. The plan was never for Sansa to personally assassinate Roose and Ramsay, it was for her to bring the Boltons down from inside by acting as a beacon, a Stark in Winterfell, for the north to rally around.

 

[CrocMother]

Still really like the books, still really like the show!

 

[Judderman]

"Why does it matter what I wore? Did I really just betray everything I stand for? Of course it mattered what I wore."
-Thoughts of Margaery's Gay Brother Loras

Who is gay.

 

[Speevy]

Yeah, obviously she's in trouble. That's kind of the point of the plot line at this juncture. The plan was never for Sansa to personally assassinate Roose and Ramsay, it was for her to bring the Boltons down from inside by acting as a beacon, a Stark in Winterfell, for the north to rally around.

Speculation based on outside stuff/trailers

Spoiler

Well, the nawyth remembers lady is an obvious red herring since they've neither cast nor filmed a northern uprising scene, and the only friend Sansa has is Brienne. Now Brienne is featured with Podrick in a winter scene but it's not in Winterfell, and she doesn't have Sansa.

 

[kswiston]

Littlefinger will teleport to Meereen next to tell Dany about Sansa in Winterfell and pledge his support.

Na. Littlefinger will reveal his Faceless man training when it turns out he was Daario all along (damaged one of his masks between seasons, which explains the face change last season). He will then marry Dany, along with Bronn, and the three of them will be the new heads of the Dragon.

 

[-griffy-]

Speculation based on outside stuff/trailers

Spoiler

Well, the nawyth remembers lady is an obvious red herring since they've neither cast nor filmed a northern uprising scene, and the only friend Sansa has is Brienne. Now Brienne is featured with Podrick in a winter scene but it's not in Winterfell, and she doesn't have Sansa.

I assume that

Spoiler

Brienne/Pod scene we've spotted is just them conspiring at the inn they are currently at. Judging from the next episode preview, it looks like it starts snowing fairly heavily around Winterfell. Maybe it's them reacting to a candle being lit in the tower.

 

[jaaz]

I just saw this week's episode and... I don't know what to say. Just two of the many terrible things:

• The Sand Snake "fight scene" is so amateurish for a show of this caliber, it's hard to fathom what happened. The acting and choreography looks like a high school play, it is so bad, and I'm not exaggerating. This was the show that gave us the Battle of Blackwater?!?

• How could Margery's aunt (or whatever) in all her wisdom not see where the "interview" of Lorell and Margery was heading? I think a 3-year old could have seen the set-up that was coming by that line of questioning. And no one managed to deduce that perhaps they might have turned a witness against them? No queen with half a brain would have testified in that scenario--and the aunt was ridiculously stupid to let her do so. What were they going to do, throw the queen in jail for refusing to testify in an inquisition against her own brother? Unlikely.

I think what I feared would happen to this show is finally happening: I know it mostly follows the books, but there is a price to pay by killing off all of the strong actors in the show: Ned Stark, Tywin, Catelyn, Rob Stark, etc. You kill those off and you are left with... the Sand Snakes. Okay, that's not entirely fair, as there are some strong actors left like Tyrion and Stannis, but it's hard to argue that the show is not suffering from the many strong actors that have been killed-off. And without strong actors, you get weak writing--which is what we are getting as the plot diverges from the books.

 

[Speevy]

And without strong actors, you get weak writing

Um...I don't think that's how it works.

 

[Lothar]

Waiting for Stannis to kick the Boltons out and putting her in charge of Winterfell.

Smarter idea: Wait at the Vale. You don't need to be at Winterfell to wait.

Yeah, obviously she's in trouble. That's kind of the point of the plot line at this juncture. The plan was never for Sansa to personally assassinate Roose and Ramsay, it was for her to bring the Boltons down from inside by acting as a beacon, a Stark in Winterfell, for the north to rally around.

If she can't even talk Ramsay into getting Theon out of the room, I don't see how she can accomplish this. Margaery would be able to do this. Sansa's at level 1 of the game.

 

[iamblades]

They did go over the overarching story with GRRM, so I'd assume they have it worked out a lot further than what we've seen so far. It just makes little sense to us right now because we're still perceiving it through the influence of the book storylines.

That's not really relevant though. It doesn't really matter if you cut a storyline that isn't going to be major in the long run if the storylines you come up with to replace it are absolutely terrible.

 

[jaaz]

Um...I don't think that's how it works.

Sure it is. The dialogue for TV shows are generally written with the actor that is going to deliver the line in mind. This isn't the books. As a screenwriter you don't write a line for Arya that you know the actress who plays Arya will not be able to deliver convincingly. The writers are working with the strength and range of the actors they have. It's hard to argue the quality of the acting--and consequently the writing--is not decreasing as more and more accomplished actors are killed off.

 

[Speevy]

Sure it is. The dialogue for TV shows are generally written with the actor that is going to deliver the line in mind. This isn't the books. As a screenwriter you don't write a line for Arya that you know the actress who plays Arya will not be able to deliver convincingly. The writers are working with the strength and range of the actors they have. It's hard to argue the quality of the acting--and consequently the writing--is not decreasing as more and more accomplished actors are killed off.

What you're trying to say is that they get veteran actors to read the great speeches, and while that's true, this show has consistently produced talented actors independent of its writing.

A good actor can deliver a bad line and a bad actor can botch a good one. I thought Maisie Williams was absolutely brilliant last night, as was Alfie Allen.

The worst actors this show has ever produced are the ones playing Ros, Shae, Bran, Rickon, and Dany. Jon is serviceable now because so many of his scenes involve action and being an absolute badass.

In keeping the best actors around just because of their acting, there is a falseness. I would love to see more scenes of Tywin, but I know that he had to die to Tyrion could escape.

Tyene, Obara, Nym, and Ellaria were unfortunate choices that are temporary to the show.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

I just saw this week's episode and... I don't know what to say. Just two of the many terrible things:

• The Sand Snake "fight scene" is so amateurish for a show of this caliber, it's hard to fathom what happened. The acting and choreography looks like a high school play, it is so bad, and I'm not exaggerating. This was the show that gave us the Battle of Blackwater?!?

• How could Margery's aunt (or whatever) in all her wisdom not see where the "interview" of Lorell and Margery was heading? I think a 3-year old could have seen the set-up that was coming by that line of questioning. And no one managed to deduce that perhaps they might have turned a witness against them? No queen with half a brain would have testified in that scenario--and the aunt was ridiculously stupid to let her do so. What were they going to do, throw the queen in jail for refusing to testify in an inquisition against her own brother? Unlikely.

I think what I feared would happen to this show is finally happening: I know it mostly follows the books, but there is a price to pay by killing off all of the strong actors in the show: Ned Stark, Tywin, Catelyn, Rob Stark, etc. You kill those off and you are left with... the Sand Snakes. Okay, that's not entirely fair, as there are some strong actors left like Tyrion and Stannis, but it's hard to argue that the show is not suffering from the many strong actors that have been killed-off. And without strong actors, you get weak writing--which is what we are getting as the plot diverges from the books.

We've still got Alfie Allen. If they give him the godswood confession scene and replace hearing Bran call his name with Sansa finding him, he'll knock it out of the park. Strongest actor they have by far (with Lena a close second).

 

[johnsmith]

We need a version of this with George.

The TV show was a mistake. It's nothing but trash.

 

[Speevy]

I seriously think Alfie Allen is probably the only member of the younger cast who has created a character that is not only different (not having to eat rats or anything), but also better than his book counterpart.

There's not a badly acted scene in his entire storyline. He goes from arrogant and pompous (Winterfell) to proud and humble (Robb's loyal servant) to emasculated and confused (Iron Islands) to empowered and foolhardy (Winterfell again) then to Ramsay's control where he expresses regret for his decision, then begs for his life, then cowers to demands, then changes his entire demeanor, but then he's had to sporadically pretend to be someone else, looks terrified when his sister tries to bring him back to reality, and otherwise he walks around as this husk of a man. He is so good that I can actually tell from his face that he's had his manhood chopped off.

I don't understand how they haven't nominated Alfie Allen for an Emmy. He is absolutely brilliant.

 

[-griffy-]

I seriously think Alfie Allen is probably the only member of the younger cast who has created a character that is not only different (not having to eat rats or anything), but also better than his book counterpart.

There's not a bad scene in his entire storyline. He goes from arrogant and pompous (Winterfell) to proud and humble (Robb's loyal servant) to emasculated and confused (Iron Islands) to empowered and foolhardy (Winterfell again) then to Ramsay's control where he expresses regret for his decision, then begs for his life, then cowers to demands, then changes his entire demeanor, but then he's had to sporadically pretend to be someone else, looks terrified when his sister tries to bring him back to reality, and otherwise he walks around as this husk of a man. He is so good that I can actually tell from his face that he's had his manhood chopped off.

I don't understand how they haven't nominated Alfie Allen for an Emmy. He is absolutely brilliant.

The moment when Sansa refused to take his arm, and the worry that suddenly shot across his face from the fear that somehow her refusal was a failure on his part and him disobeying orders, and that Ramsay would punish him for it. What he was able to convey in that tiny moment was incredible.

 

[Ganzlinger]

We need a version of this with George.

The TV show was a mistake. It's nothing but trash.

Agreed. We could use this one to edit:

 

[Gabriel_Logan]

The Faith Militant are so stupid. While they're worrying about Loras there is a god damn Necromancer like 30 feet away from them.

 

[Speevy]

The Faith Militant is so stupid. While they're worrying about Loras there is a god damn Necromancer like 30 feet away from them.

Okay, this made me lol.

 

[Atraveller]

Agreed. Though new Myrcella looks eerily like a girl I had a crush on when I was 19. Then I found out she was my second cousin.

What's the problem? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Bronn is probably going to die, it's going to suck, but if he dies because of the poison, the awful part would not be because he's "poisoned by a little girl", but because he got poisoned in one of the worst fight scenes in the series. :/

And also his death would be pointless.

Tyene whyy?

The fight is so, so bad!

 

[bodyofanamerican]

I seriously think Alfie Allen is probably the only member of the younger cast who has created a character that is not only different (not having to eat rats or anything), but also better than his book counterpart.

There's not a badly acted scene in his entire storyline. He goes from arrogant and pompous (Winterfell) to proud and humble (Robb's loyal servant) to emasculated and confused (Iron Islands) to empowered and foolhardy (Winterfell again) then to Ramsay's control where he expresses regret for his decision, then begs for his life, then cowers to demands, then changes his entire demeanor, but then he's had to sporadically pretend to be someone else, looks terrified when his sister tries to bring him back to reality, and otherwise he walks around as this husk of a man. He is so good that I can actually tell from his face that he's had his manhood chopped off.

I don't understand how they haven't nominated Alfie Allen for an Emmy. He is absolutely brilliant.

You and griffy just nail it. I hate what they've done with Sansa, but I'm guessing it's going to lead to some amazing scenes with Alfie.

And yes, that little twitch when she wont do what Ramsay asked was perfect. He's so much more than a convulsing pile of meat, and you really see the person that's trapped inside of Reek. It's fantastic.

 

[Brazil]

I seriously think Alfie Allen is probably the only member of the younger cast who has created a character that is not only different (not having to eat rats or anything), but also better than his book counterpart.

There's not a badly acted scene in his entire storyline. He goes from arrogant and pompous (Winterfell) to proud and humble (Robb's loyal servant) to emasculated and confused (Iron Islands) to empowered and foolhardy (Winterfell again) then to Ramsay's control where he expresses regret for his decision, then begs for his life, then cowers to demands, then changes his entire demeanor, but then he's had to sporadically pretend to be someone else, looks terrified when his sister tries to bring him back to reality, and otherwise he walks around as this husk of a man. He is so good that I can actually tell from his face that he's had his manhood chopped off.

I don't understand how they haven't nominated Alfie Allen for an Emmy. He is absolutely brilliant.

Theon was already my all-time favorite POV, but reading this post just consolidated that perception on a whole new level.

He's truly the GoAT.

And you're not kidding. Alfie pulled that shit off without a single hitch in five seasons. He's a monster actor.

 

[RustyNails]

From the unsullied thread, this post killed me:

Guys we don't know if Ramsay finishes or not....Maybe Reek will stab him in next week's episode.

That was sarcasm

 

[bodyofanamerican]

Can folks still track their quotes in other threads?

 

[Steelyuhas]

Can folks still track their quotes in other threads?

Yes, don't quote people from the other thread, if they look at their quote replies in their User CP, they will see it.

 

[Marz]

Even with how stupid and embarrassing this whole Dorne plot is so far, it can be salvaged as long as they just focus on Doran and Jaime. They perfectly casted Oberyns brother and he's only had a few lines of dialogue in 6 episodes.

 

[A-V-B]

That might be an interesting counter point if the TV show was fan fiction created without GRRM's approval, but it's not.

Regardless of what he thinks of the changes, his blog post demonstrates that he understands and accepts that changes are a necessary and unavoidable reality due to the differences in strengths and weaknesses between the two mediums. He's worked in TV before. He knew this going in, and he seems to accept that.

In the end, who cares, I guess. What'll be will be.

 

[Zolo]

I seriously think Alfie Allen is probably the only member of the younger cast who has created a character that is not only different (not having to eat rats or anything), but also better than his book counterpart.

There's not a badly acted scene in his entire storyline. He goes from arrogant and pompous (Winterfell) to proud and humble (Robb's loyal servant) to emasculated and confused (Iron Islands) to empowered and foolhardy (Winterfell again) then to Ramsay's control where he expresses regret for his decision, then begs for his life, then cowers to demands, then changes his entire demeanor, but then he's had to sporadically pretend to be someone else, looks terrified when his sister tries to bring him back to reality, and otherwise he walks around as this husk of a man. He is so good that I can actually tell from his face that he's had his manhood chopped off.

I don't understand how they haven't nominated Alfie Allen for an Emmy. He is absolutely brilliant.

Think he gets overshadowed for not being a "main character" or "fan favorite" which is more due to the nature of his character than his acting.

Of course, I never got the impression Sansa was all that popular, but I guess I was wrong on that.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Even with how stupid and embarrassing this whole Dorne plot is so far, it can be salvaged as long as they just focus on Doran and Jaime. They perfectly casted Oberyns brother and he's only had a few lines of dialogue in 6 episodes.

Yeah, I believe that as well. It's a shame they didn't abridge the content so far to get it done in the first few episodes in order to put Doran firmly in charge of the situation and let him do his thing.

 

[biosnake20]

Look at the bright side guys at least we won't see anymore weird power ranger shit from the snakes anymore, i think.

Spoiler

And we will see Tyene naked hopefully

 

[hipsterpants]

Yeah, I believe that as well. It's a shame they didn't abridge the content so far to get it done in the first few episodes in order to put Doran firmly in charge of the situation and let him do his thing.

I think Doran will finally set Jaime on the path he's on in the books.

 

[Basileus777]

Yes, don't quote people from the other thread, if they look at their quote replies in their User CP, they will see it.

Quote replies in User CP? I don't think they'll see it unless they search for their name.

 

[Brakke]

Rusty playing a dangerous game posting in both threads.

 

[Speevy]

Rusty playing a dangerous game posting in both threads.

The Petyr Baelish of Members

 

[CoolOff]

 

[Ganzlinger]

Theon was already my all-time favorite POV, but reading this post just consolidated that perception on a whole new level.

He's truly the GoAT.

Theon is awesome.

What happens if someone posts this on the Unsullied thread?

 

[johnsmith]

Perfect.