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[Basileus777]

Been a while since I read the series, but isn't it insinuated that Doran is playing the game at Littlefinger like power levels? Just been behind the scenes till now?

Not really. Doran's plans have mostly proven disastrous so far. His "fire and blood" speech was made rather farcical by the events of ADWD. He's pretty terrible at managing his family (he's almost Tywinesque when it comes to this), and has nothing to show for all of his years of scheming except for more dead relatives. And if he's backing FAegon next, well, things aren't getting brighter.

 

[TRios Zen]

He has a plan to stake claim. Problem is in the show they haven't spent anytime on it. I would expect them to do so next episode. We could have easily instead just skipped sand snakes, have scenes with Doran and Ellaria talking about revenge, explore the house rivalry a bit more, have Doran explain his plan to Ellaria/Hotah. Then have Jamie/Bronn come in, get captured.

On show, we just went:
Me Oberyn Likey, He dead, me want war

I remember thinking in the books that the arc for Doran was, "wuss" to "player" and that occurred over the course of meeting him to him capturing the Sand Snakes - so some time in the book.

At this stage in the show all they've shown is angry Sand Snakes so optimistic that we'll get Doran development now that they are caught.

 

[TRios Zen]

Not really. Doran's plans have mostly proven disastrous so far. His "fire and blood" speech was made rather farcical by the events of ADWD. He's pretty terrible at managing his family, and has nothing to show for all of his years of scheming except for more dead relatives.

I kind of read it like he was in it for the long game so the managing the family (sand snakes) was necessary because he was keeping them in the dark. I am willing to admit that my recollection of this storyline is somewhat muddy though.

 

[SteveWD40]

Is there anything that would seriously make anyone in this thread drop the show at this point? Serious question, not being snarky.

If they go too far into the soap opera arena then I may resort to just reading the wiki summary afterwards.

I am intrigued by a few things though:

- Will we see the White Walkers again? Hardhome? that threat has been left to rot, how slow is their army?

- Battle of Winterfell for ep9 and John finding out about Sansa in ep10?

Didn't Sansa hate Jon / treat him like shit iirc? Arya was a much stronger reason for him to leave the wall, even fake Arya.

 

[Real Hero]

I kind of read it like he was in it for the long game so the managing the family (sand snakes) was necessary because he was keeping them in the dark. I am willing to admit that my recollection of this storyline is somewhat muddy though.

You right on his arc but then at the end of adwd his plan is basically in ruin as Quentyn is rejected then burnt alive. I think he's going to dump all his well thought out plans and hastily side with aegon and piss off Dany.

 

[munchie64]

If they go too far into the soap opera arena then I may resort to just reading the wiki summary afterwards.

I am intrigued by a few things though:

- Will we see the White Walkers again? Hardhome? that threat has been left to rot, how slow is their army?

Preview/speculation:

Spoiler

Wildlings + Nights Watch Jon takes with him will probably battle White Walkers at Hardhome

 

[Basileus777]

I kind of read it like he was in it for the long game so the managing the family (sand snakes) was necessary because he was keeping them in the dark. I am willing to admit that my recollection of this storyline is somewhat muddy though.

He couldn't control his brother, so he had to send Quentyn off to be raised by another family. His wife left him. His daughter rebelled against him because of his bungling. He also tried to marry her to Viserys. His brother's children despised him and rebelled to the point where he had to jail them. He tries to sell his actions as being great long term planning, but if you actually look at what's he's done or tried to do, his record is poor.

 

[Atraveller]

As someone who just caught up, what was the book-reading community's reaction to Barristan getting killed off?

"The fuck?"

 

[Kain]

He couldn't control his brother, so he had to send Quentyn off to be raised by another family. His wife left him. His daughter rebelled against him because of his bungling. He also tried to marry her to Viserys. His brother's children despised him and rebelled to the point where he had to jail them. He tries to sell his actions as being great long term planning, but if you actually look at what's he's done or tried to do, his record is poor.

He and his brother worked together, the only misstep that we know of is Oberyn getting greedy and trying to humilliate the Mountain instead of killing him. I agree with the rest: he is not the great leader he thinks he is, he thinks he is being patient when he is indolent and he can't control his people for shit. He is a regular guy trying the impossible, he is no Tywin or Stannis.

That's why I'm hoping that after Quentyn's death he snaps and declares full on war against the Lannisters or Dany or both. Although knowing him maybe he passes the torch to Arianne? That would be interesting.

 

[Ganzlinger]

As someone who just caught up, what was the book-reading community's reaction to Barristan getting killed off?

 

[Morts]

If they go too far into the soap opera arena then I may resort to just reading the wiki summary afterwards.

I am intrigued by a few things though:

- Will we see the White Walkers again? Hardhome? that threat has been left to rot, how slow is their army?

- Battle of Winterfell for ep9 and John finding out about Sansa in ep10?

Didn't Sansa hate Jon / treat him like shit iirc? Arya was a much stronger reason for him to leave the wall, even fake Arya.

I'd be really surprised if the Battle of Winterfell happens this season. We'll probably get Hardhome and that's it.

 

[Real Hero]

The battle not happening this year would be terrible.

 

[TRios Zen]

You right on his arc but then at the end of adwd his plan is basically in ruin as Quentyn is rejected then burnt alive. I think he's going to dump all his well thought out plans and hastily side with aegon and piss off Dany.

Yep, had completely forgotten the Quentyn part - no love for the plain looking.

He couldn't control his brother, so he had to send Quentyn off to be raised by another family. His wife left him. His daughter rebelled against him because of his bungling. He also tried to marry her to Viserys. His brother's children despised him and rebelled to the point where he had to jail them. He tries to sell his actions as being great long term planning, but if you actually look at what's he's done or tried to do, his record is poor.

Maybe I didn't catch that nuance in the book, it seems I left Doran thinking that he had a long plan going, but now I'm wondering if I should re-read the Dorne sections.

Thanks both for input!

 

[SteveWD40]

I'd be really surprised if the Battle of Winterfell happens this season. We'll probably get Hardhome and that's it.

Preview speculation:

Spoiler

There is a shot of an interview with Ramsay's actor in what looks like a battlefield (tents and wheelbarrows) with blood on him, Stannis gets bloodied at some point as well based on previews.

 

[Lothar]

If they build up a battle all season, don't have it, and then give us a different battle that has no build up... well, they can't be that dumb, can they?

 

[Morts]

I just don't know when they'll fit it in, considering we know we're getting Hardhome and the Pit. If they were going to have a third "big" event I'd have thought they'd pick up the pace of the first half of the season.

I hope I'm wrong though.

 

[Red Arremer]

Probably explained it wrong, but that was the one I read, and you are correct - they were very interesting.

That blog in general has really interesting analysis. It's very informative.

The one thing I'm just really dumbfounded by is the numbers - Renly's army of the combined Reach and Stormlands had 80k troops, which is about as much if not more than the rest of Westeros combined.

 

[Byakuya769]

If they build up a battle all season, don't have it, and then give us a different battle that has no build up... well, they can't be that dumb, can they?

Well instead of being one of the most dangerous knights in the seven kingdoms who happens to be gay, Loras gets made a clown and called a "pillow biter." Anything is possible.

 

[Basileus777]

He and his brother worked together, the only misstep that we know of is Oberyn getting greedy and trying to humilliate the Mountain instead of killing him. I agree with the rest: he is not the great leader he thinks he is, he thinks he is being patient when he is indolent and he can't control his people for shit. He is a regular guy trying the impossible, he is no Tywin or Stannis.

That's why I'm hoping that after Quentyn's death he snaps and declares full on war against the Lannisters or Dany or both. Although knowing him maybe he passes the torch to Arianne? That would be interesting.

I was talking about the circumstances that led to Quentyn being fostered, namely Oberyn killing the Yronwood heir. That incident is also why Doran's wife left him.

 

[Byakuya769]

He and his brother worked together, the only misstep that we know of is Oberyn getting greedy and trying to humilliate the Mountain instead of killing him. I agree with the rest: he is not the great leader he thinks he is, he thinks he is being patient when he is indolent and he can't control his people for shit. He is a regular guy trying the impossible, he is no Tywin or Stannis.

That's why I'm hoping that after Quentyn's death he snaps and declares full on war against the Lannisters or Dany or both. Although knowing him maybe he passes the torch to Arianne? That would be interesting.

Tywin regularly got humiliated by two Kings and got killed by his dwarve son while taking a shit (he also saw his first blood relative die shortly after being made king and his chosen heir sleep with his sister, join the kingsgaurd and lose a hand). Not looking that much better...

And Stannis has yet to do anything of note. Kingdom ignores him, he had to murder his brother, he got wrecked at Blackwater and is trying to raise a Wildling army...

 

[bengraven]

Tywin got his. 20 years of prosperity in the kingdom, a return of respect to his name, his daughter married to a king, eventually becoming ruler of the kingdoms in most regards, though it was short...I just like to think his retirement sucked.

I was talking about the circumstances that led to Quentyn being fostered, namely Oberyn killing the Yronwood heir. That incident is also why Doran's wife left him.

Shit, I don't remember that.

I really need to reread the books, though I did a couple years ago - ending about three chapters into Dance. I should just re-read Feast for the third time, this time in the combined book. So many little things I either never noticed or quickly forgot - like Hardhome.

 

[-griffy-]

If they build up a battle all season, don't have it, and then give us a different battle that has no build up... well, they can't be that dumb, can they?

When is Dany going to Westeros again?

 

[flyover]

Ellaria's mission doesn't even make sense - "Oberyn was murdered!!!!" - naw gurl, he wasn't.

Yeah, this is one of the weirdest things in the show, to me. Why does she think Oberyn was murdered? He volunteered to enter a trial by combat and lost.

I guess maybe she knows full well he wasn't, but told everyone back in Dorne that he was, because she's pissed he died. Only explanation I can think of.

 

[Calamari41]

Yep. The show focusing so much of the revenge on Oberyns 'murder!' is also weird. The emphasis should be on the long running feud between their houses.

Yeah, it doesn't make sense. Gregor won the trial completely legitimately... hell, if anyone "cheated," it was Oberyn. The whole reason for the re-energizing of the conflict between the two houses is the fact that Gregor finally admitted to what he did to Elia and her kids.

 

[Lothar]

When is Dany going to Westeros again?

Athough some would say that's shitty too, the difference here is Dany going to Westeros has not been the major focus of any season. The major focus of this season has been centered on Winterfell and The Wall telling us over and over Ramsay is a bad guy and Stannis is a good guy and they're going to fight each other.

Yep it was unbelievably awful plotting and editing that the battle wasn't in ADWD also.

 

[biosnake20]

According to that website that knows about upcoming nudity we will be getting

Spoiler

Fat Pink Mast in episode 7. Tyene gets naked too and Dany has a scene in bed with Daario.

 

[bengraven]

When is Dany going to Westeros again?

Dany should have been in Westeros at the end of Storm of Swords.

The whole "getting Mereen to love her" story could have easily been "getting Dorne to love her". Literally every plot in her story could have been resolved by saying that because Dorne is mostly independant that slavery is legal there.

According to that website that knows about upcoming nudity we will be getting

Spoiler

Fat Pink Mast in episode 7. Tyene gets naked too and Dany has a scene in bed with Daario.

Well we did already see Gilly fuck in Skins.

And that scene was awkward as fuck. Poor girl, trapped with nerdy love interests.

 

[Calamari41]

Dany should have been in Westeros at the end of Storm of Swords.

The whole "getting Mereen to love her" story could have easily been "getting Dorne to love her". Literally every plot in her story could have been resolved by saying that because Dorne is mostly independant that slavery is legal there.

Damn, that never even entered my mind as a possibility, but you're totally right. They wouldn't even need to have slavery as a factor. Just make Dorne fractured by different factions, and have her story be about pulling them all together over the course of a book or so.

 

[ZackieChan]

Athough some would say that's shitty too, the difference here is Dany going to Westeros has not been the major focus of any season. The major focus of this season has been centered on Winterfell and The Wall telling us over and over Ramsay is a bad guy and Stannis is a good guy and they're going to fight each other.

Yep it was unbelievably awful plotting and editing that the battle wasn't in ADWD also.

jeffgoldblumthereitis.gif

 

[bengraven]

Damn, that never even entered my mind as a possibility, but you're totally right. They wouldn't even need to have slavery as a factor. Just make Dorne fractured by different factions, and have her story be about pulling them all together over the course of a book or so.

With Oberyn dead Doran would need to simply accept her. She shows up with her army of Unsullied, Illyrio's ships, her dragons who have grown substantially over the crossing due to eating fucking whales and shit, and she arrives in Dorne preparing to call arms and suddenly, as Illyrio said, Dorne suddenly changes it's banners to the red dragon. The last shot of Season 4 would have been the banners changing from Dorne to Targ before she ever sets foot on shore.

And then a dragon rears it's head and roars and we cut to black CREDITS. (lol, never gets old)

Imagine how much better Feast would have been with Dany already in Westeros. It would give Cersei even more reason to start her downfall from this paranoia, Dany could be the reason Myrcella gets cut, the Sand Snakes could try and turn Dany against Doran, she could turn down Quentyn there and maybe choose instead a rival to Martell's house to marry, Euron would be right there around the bend for her to start fucking on the side....

(that also never gets old)

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Damn, man, I've had to give up the Unsullied thread based on this stupid Sansa plot. Some of the posters there infuriate me.

For the best, ultimately.

 

[biosnake20]

 

[Massa]

Why is Sansa holding Ramsay's corpse like that.

 

[bengraven]

Smile for the camera, my lady.

I'm...s-s-so heppeh...

That's right...now Reek, put the camera on the tripod and start the night vision...

 

[Calamari41]

With Oberyn dead Doran would need to simply accept her. She shows up with her army of Unsullied, Illyrio's ships, her dragons who have grown substantially over the crossing due to eating fucking whales and shit, and she arrives in Dorne preparing to call arms and suddenly, as Illyrio said, Dorne suddenly changes it's banners to the red dragon. The last shot of Season 4 would have been the banners changing from Dorne to Targ before she ever sets foot on shore.

And then a dragon rears it's head and roars and we cut to black CREDITS. (lol, never gets old)

Imagine how much better Feast would have been with Dany already in Westeros. It would give Cersei even more reason to start her downfall from this paranoia, Dany could be the reason Myrcella gets cut, the Sand Snakes could try and turn Dany against Doran, she could turn down Quentyn there and maybe choose instead a rival to Martell's house to marry, Euron would be right there around the bend for her to start fucking on the side....

(that also never gets old)

I was thinking it would be interesting to have Dany turn Myrcella to her side, technically giving her claim to Casterly Rock once Cersei is out of the picture.

Then all that the Greyjoys have to do is reave the shit out of the Reach in order to get in Dany's good graces and pull whatever con they're going to end up pulling.

 

[Massa]

Funny thing is that the the people that I would of thought that would be really pissed about the episode(Elio and Linda) were not. Excluding the Dorne stuff they thought it was a really solid episode.

I find that very interesting, as I never really bought that the Sansa chapter GRRM released was the controversial one they were talking about.

 

[Yoda]

As it stands the entire Dorne plot is approaching grey-joy levels of non-investment (we don't know wth is going on with Balon and notice not many fans seem to care). This time around it's dragged in a few more prominent characters, so amputating it before it becomes a chore to watch isn't a thing.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I wouldn't be opposed to cutting most of the Sand Snakes, but keeping one like Nymeria. I still think Arianne and Oakheart should have been in S4 (with Ellaria as a bit character instead of hiring a great actress for no reason). That way you establish two young characters so they can introduce viewers to Dorne next season. Without, you know, having to shoehorn Jaime there.

Basically: Arianne goes to KL with Oberyn, meets Oakheart, they have a bit of romance (but nothing serious), have various people attempt to propose marriage to Arianne in order to establish that she has been promised to a variety of elderly dying dudes already. Oberyn dies, Cersei decides to send Oakheart to Dorne in order to bolster Myrcella's defense. Arianne is torn between her father's call for peace and her cousin Nymeria's call for revenge. Throw in some intrigue with Oakheart trying to discover the identity of someone who is trying to have Myrcella killed. Arianne seduces him into helping crown Myrcella, in part by convincing him that doing so would save her life. Plot seems to go smoothly until Hotah shows up, heads fly, someone injures Myrcella, etc. And later reveal that Nymeria is the person trying to have Myrcella assassinated. She gets away with it, Arianne is imprisoned, and later Doran reveals his master plan before sending Arianne and Nymeria...wherever they'll go in S6.

Basically follow the book plot but make cuts (most of the Sand Snakes, Darkstar, etc) and add some intrigue. I don't dislike the Sand Snakes, I just don't think most of them need to be in the show. Nymeria will apparently play a big role in TWOW since she's joining the Small Council in Kings Landing, so it makes sense to keep her. But the rest can go.

 

[-griffy-]

Funny thing is that the the people that I would of thought that would be really pissed about the episode(Elio and Linda) were not. Excluding the Dorne stuff they thought it was a really solid episode.

Just saw this post, never would have thought I would agree with them on this of all episodes.

 

[BobTheFork]

So since Jamie isn't out in the Riverlands, is her going to be Dorne when Cersei's letter gets to him? I wonder how that will play. The only thing I could think of is him staying there and maybe joining them in whatever they decide to do but that's kind of stupid. If he's not out doing something else he can only go back to Cersei or work with Dorne and I don't see either of those working.

 

[Jigorath]

So since Jamie isn't out in the Riverlands, is her going to be Dorne when Cersei's letter gets to him? I wonder how that will play. The only thing I could think of is him staying there and maybe joining them in whatever they decide to do but that's kind of stupid. If he's not out doing something else he can only go back to Cersei or work with Dorne and I don't see either of those working.

He'll probably be back in King's Landing by then. That way he can refuse Cersei to her face.

 

[Enosh]

According to that website that knows about upcoming nudity we will be getting

Spoiler

Tyene gets naked too.

Spoiler

sand snakes plot redeemed

 

[Kain]

So since Jamie isn't out in the Riverlands, is her going to be Dorne when Cersei's letter gets to him? I wonder how that will play. The only thing I could think of is him staying there and maybe joining them in whatever they decide to do but that's kind of stupid. If he's not out doing something else he can only go back to Cersei or work with Dorne and I don't see either of those working.

I don't think there will be a letter. They parted on good terms, hell, she practically ordered him to go, and even if there is a letter he will go running to KL (but will not get there in time).

This is what happens when you cut Darkstar. All of Dorne's plot is a mess because we don't have that magnificient bastard.

 

[Hazmat]

The battle not happening this year would be terrible.

Well, that would give us the faithfulness to the books that we're all looking for.

 

[Real Hero]

Well, that would give us the faithfulness to the books that we're all looking for.

No need to be THAT faithful

 

[-griffy-]

So since Jamie isn't out in the Riverlands, is her going to be Dorne when Cersei's letter gets to him? I wonder how that will play. The only thing I could think of is him staying there and maybe joining them in whatever they decide to do but that's kind of stupid. If he's not out doing something else he can only go back to Cersei or work with Dorne and I don't see either of those working.

Assuming Doran follows his book motivations, he may in fact try to forge a public alliance with Jaime and the Lannisters, and make a show of releasing him while also imprisoning the Sand Snakes to demonstrate that he's still loyal to the crown. And maybe he even suggests to Jaime to send Myrcella and Tristane to King's Landing rather than someone else as in the books.

 

[munchie64]

From other thread:

Lol, GoT broke the record with the most illegal download of the episode 5, with episode 6.

Episode 5 was 3.22 million downloads in 24 hours, episode 6 3.5 million in 24 hours.

Views be dropping lol

 

[Massa]

From other thread:

Views be dropping lol

Episode 7 is gonna kill it. People claiming they were dropping the show did a really good job of promoting the show.

 

[munchie64]

Funny thing is that the the people that I would of thought that would be really pissed about the episode(Elio and Linda) were not. Excluding the Dorne stuff they thought it was a really solid episode.

I don't go there much at all, but it's nice to see a big site like that line up a little more with my thinking. Makes me not seem crazy haha.

 

[Cornballer]

Views be dropping lol

Note that those are the peer-to-peer numbers only. Similar to the first run ratings, they only tell part of the story.

Speaking of first run numbers that jett alluded to yesterday:

					18-49	Viewers(M)
S05E01	The Wars to Come		4.2	8.00
S05E02	The House of Black and White	3.6	6.81
S05E03	High Sparrow			3.5	6.71
S05E04	The Sons Of The Harpy		3.6	6.82
S05E05	Kill the Boy			3.5	6.56
S05E06	Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken	3.1	6.24

They're down again, and we'll have to see where they end up at the culmination of the season. Keep in mind that the cumulative numbers (including reruns, DVR, legal streaming, etc...) are the ones to keep an eye on, and I don't think they've released anything aside from the Week 1 set.