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[WrenchNinja]

The podcast Game of Microphones liked this episode a lot more than most, and made me feel a bit more positive. Dorne is of course a sticking point. Their discussions of the ending are a little frustrating though, as some of the hosts use some stupid arguments, but overall it is interesting.

I thought A Cast of Kings was a little bleh this week, but I understand why.

I thought Joanna was on point and Dave's struggling with neutrality was kind of silly.

 

[Damerman]

I won't say it's pointless, but I would say that many of us who read the books love Theon's arc (IMO it's the best writing GRRM has done), and many of us don't like seeing Sansa seemingly starting from square one again (being abused and now actually sexually assaulted) to juice up Theon's story.

I just don't think it needed it, and with all the floundering around LF's "explanation" for why he did it and how she ended up there, the seams of D&D's story streamlining are really showing, and it's unfortunately involving one character many of us prefer not to be in the situation to begin with and another character (and actor for that matter) whose redemption arc didn't need another main character we've followed for years getting abused yet again, in a much more brutal and direct manner.

perfectly said.

 

[Thaedolus]

Note that those are the peer-to-peer numbers only. Similar to the first run ratings, they only tell part of the story.

Speaking of first run numbers that jett alluded to yesterday:

					18-49	Viewers(M)
S05E01	The Wars to Come		4.2	8.00
S05E02	The House of Black and White	3.6	6.81
S05E03	High Sparrow			3.5	6.71
S05E04	The Sons Of The Harpy		3.6	6.82
S05E05	Kill the Boy			3.5	6.56
S05E06	Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken	3.1	6.24

They're down again, and we'll have to see where they end up at the culmination of the season. Keep in mind that the cumulative numbers (including reruns, DVR, legal streaming, etc...) are the ones to keep an eye on, and I don't think they've released anything aside from the Week 1 set.

This isn't really shocking to me...I feel like this season has been by far the worst. It's meandering through meandering book material, the lolSnakes, a whole lot of nuttin happening on the wall, Loras getting gaybashed, not enough screen time for Dr. Bashir, etc. My buddy and I who discuss the show and books regularly are both really disappointed that when they start spoiling the next books, this is the quality we can expect.

EDIT

I think the only redemption will be a final scene of the Kingsmoot with DarriEuron showing up with Dragonbinder.

 

[munchie64]

Note that those are the peer-to-peer numbers only. Similar to the first run ratings, they only tell part of the story.

Speaking of first run numbers that jett alluded to yesterday:
They're down again, and we'll have to see where they end up at the culmination of the season. Keep in mind that the cumulative numbers (including reruns, DVR, legal streaming, etc...) are the ones to keep an eye on, and I don't think they've released anything aside from the Week 1 set.

Ah ok. I honestly think HBO Now/Go has played a big part in the lowering. If there wasn't already a kind of downward trend, it'd be interesting to see how this - at least for now - seemingly big controversy affected the show.
Hopefully big events start dropping soon.

On another note, I thought someone said it was back to season 3 numbers? Am I misremembering?

I thought Joanna was on point and Dave's struggling with neutrality was kind of silly.

I think both dragged things down a bit. It was understandable how upset Joanna was, but it effected the rest of the episode too much for me. And yes, I don't want to pretend to know what's going through anyone's head, but Dave really sounded like he was not speaking his mind.
Edit of the edit: I want to make it clear I've followed that particular podcast since it began, so I obviously respect the opinions of both presenters a whole lot.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

This isn't really shocking to me...I feel like this season has been by far the worst. It's meandering through meandering book material, the lolSnakes, a whole lot of nuttin happening on the wall, Loras getting gaybashed, not enough screen time for Dr. Bashir, etc. My buddy and I who discuss the show and books regularly are both really disappointed that when they start spoiling the next books, this is the quality we can expect.

I'll second this. I'm nowhere near as excited to watch each week.

 

[bengraven]

You know what's funny is that the best parts of the show are smaller scenes that were written by George for the books. Having a weak outline of the next two novels, the writers can't adapt those smaller scenes since he hasn't written them yet.

So naturally the quality is going to drop substantially.

I find that very interesting, as I never really bought that the Sansa chapter GRRM released was the controversial one they were talking about.

They're morally opposed to pre-maritial flirting, but not post-marital sexual assault.

 

[Cornballer]

If there wasn't already a kind of downward trend, it'd be interesting to see how this - at least for now - seemingly big controversy affected the show.

It's extremely difficult, if not impossible, to measure the weekly impact of individual events on viewership. (e.g. this scene pissed people off last week, therefore the numbers are down 10% this week). There's too much noise in the ratings data to begin with.

On another note, I thought someone said it was back to season 3 numbers? Am I misremembering?

For the first run viewings, that is, the premiere broadcast at 9pm in isolation. However, more people are time-shifting and using HBO Now/Go these days, so the first run numbers aren't the ironclad indicator of overall viewership that they used to be.

 

[hipsterpants]

I'm curious if numbers will drop next season if Jon is still dead by the time episode 1 comes around.

 

[munchie64]

It's extremely difficult, if not impossible, to measure the weekly impact of individual events on viewership. (e.g. this scene pissed people off last week, therefore the numbers are down 10% this week). There's too much noise in the ratings data to begin with.
For the first run viewings, that is, the premiere broadcast at 9pm in isolation. However, more people are time-shifting and using HBO Now/Go these days, so the first run numbers aren't the ironclad indicator of overall viewership that they used to be.

Yeah it'd be too easy to just be able to judge a complicated thing like mass reactions from cloudy ratings with one source, unfortunately. Stuff like that is just the kind of thing that interests me. Maybe by the end of the season we'll be able to look back and see how it all stacks up.

I'm curious if numbers will drop next season if Jon is still dead by the time episode 1 comes around.

I really wanna do an avatar bet on whether Jon will come back to life this season or not, but I believe that isn't as welcome here?

 

[Drazgul]

I'm curious if numbers will drop next season if Jon is still dead by the time episode 1 comes around.

Oh, oh! I hope D&D know about angel lust so they can have a nice ending scene with Mel and corpse Jon. Shockers, woo!

 

[bengraven]

I'm curious if numbers will drop next season if Jon is still dead by the time episode 1 comes around.

It's inevitable. Things can't be hot forever.

 

[Chris R]

This season has been a major letdown so far, but who knows, maybe the final four episodes will redeem it. There is a ton of shit that still needs to happen this season and not much time to do it in so things will be coming hard and fast.

Hardholm
Cat of the Canals &

Spoiler

Mercy

The Pit
Trial & Walk of Shame
Dorne
Winterfell/Stannis stuff

all in the next four four hours of the show.

 

[bengraven]

Bronn is like "this is so fucking ridiculous"

This season has been a major letdown so far, but who knows, maybe the final four episodes will redeem it. There is a ton of shit that still needs to happen this season and not much time to do it in so things will be coming hard and fast.

Hardholm
Cat of the Canals &

Spoiler

Mercy

The Pit
Trial & Walk of Shame
Dorne
Winterfell/Stannis stuff

all in the next four four hours of the show.

There were similar slow periods throughout the last few seasons. It happens. Most shows are like that.

 

[Brakke]

I'm so curious about the show-Jon play. Since the show hasn't had One Million Bullshit Death Fakeouts there's definitely a chance some unsullied think he's really and truly dead. Plus every thought Barristan was fine just a couple weeks ago, so they're probably primed to believe someone getting stabbed and collapsing in a pool of blood is dead. So that all works in the show's favor.

Meanwhile, though, Jon's presence on next season's cast will give the game up pretty quickly. But at least in the drama of the moment people might believe he's dead.

I think the way to handle it is to stab him in 9 and then revive him in 10 in a spooky way -- like Mel burning Shireen or something -- so you know Kit Harrington is coming back but you have no idea what he's coming back *as*. You give the unsullied a proper freakout and the readers, too, are left with some fun speculating.

 

[StopMakingSense]

I'm so curious about the show-Jon play. Since the show hasn't had One Million Bullshit Death Fakeouts there's definitely a chance some unsullied think he's really and truly dead. Plus every thought Barristan was fine just a couple weeks ago, so they're probably primed to believe someone getting stabbed and collapsing in a pool of blood is dead. So that all works in the show's favor.

Meanwhile, though, Jon's presence on next season's cast will give the game up pretty quickly. But at least in the drama of the moment people might believe he's dead.

I think the way to handle it is to stab him in 9 and then revive him in 10 in a spooky way -- like Mel burning Shireen or something -- so you know Kit Harrington is coming back but you have no idea what he's coming back *as*. You give the unsullied a proper freakout and the readers, too, are left with some fun speculating.

Yeah if/when he comes back, if he's dying this season (i don't doubt he is) I'd guess the very last scene would be his revival reveal for that exact reason.

 

[bengraven]

You know to save face and keep viewers they're going to have to do like GRRM did and basically say "oh you think he's dead? mwahahaha"

 

[Chris R]

You know to save face and keep viewers they're going to have to do like GRRM did and basically say "oh you think he's dead? mwahahaha"

Even more so if he dies in ep. 8 at Hardholm.

They get his corpse back to the wall at the start of ep. 10 and you close the season out with him coming back to life

 

[CitizenVectron]

I do agree that killing him off without revealing he is coming back (assuming he does!) would definitely make show-only watchers upset as he's one of the few remaining good guys.

 

[Speevy]

Maybe Ramsay *pic spoiler*

Spoiler

does thing fire thing, gets in a boat and runs into Yara. That would be justice.

 

[-griffy-]

Maybe Ramsay *pic spoiler*

Spoiler

does thing fire thing, gets in a boat and runs into Yara. That would be justice.

And just as they're about to clash Gendry rows between them, ruining everything.

 

[StopMakingSense]

I do agree that killing him off without revealing he is coming back (assuming he does!) would definitely make show-only watchers upset as he's one of the few remaining good guys.

Well as he said, there would be no way to hide his return once they start filming the next season.

 

[Speevy]

And just as their about to clash Gendry rows between them, ruining everything.

Damn it Genry, learn to row.

 

[Kain]

And just as they're about to clash Gendry rows between them, ruining everything.

You forgot the dogs!

 

[Dysun]

Half the people who watch this show tune out completely after the credits roll. Don't think it matters if Kit Harrington is seen on location next year and that's the final shot. It will still have a big impact

 

[AkuMifune]

Bronn is like "this is so fucking ridiculous"

The casting and acting and stupid girl pouty faces are bad enough, but that she apparently "trained" spear fighting by watching Oberyn fight against the Mountain over and over on TV is the worst. They can't even care to hire or train someone who knows how to use a spear? Pls.

God her stupid face is awful.

 

[Lothar]

Jesus, I forgot about shireen, You think there's outrage now. Wait until shireen gets burned alive. People are going to burn the GoT studios down. Then there's Cersei's walk of shame. I'm sure people who are calling the show sexist will be thrilled about that.

Icing on the cake is Jon either dying or becoming a zombie.

Stannis may even lose, lol.

Reactions are going to be fun to read.

 

[munchie64]

It's kinda crazy. Episode 8, 9 and 10 all seem perfectly legit options for it to me. Do we have 10s title yet?

 

[Electric_ Cthulhu]

We book readers know that Jon can't possibly be dead for real. (If the popular R+L=J theory is correct, The Song of Ice and Fire is literally about him)

Show watchers don't know that yet, although it has been hinted at. So I don't think that they would leave them in the dark for a whole year. I'm sure that Jon will "die" in episode 8 or 9 and one of the last scenes in episode 10 will be his resurrection through Melisandre.

 

[Speevy]

The youngest one looks so funny when she's being held back from attacking Bronn.

 

[Shiina]

Jesus, I forgot about shireen, You think there's outrage now. Wait until shireen gets burned alive. People are going to burn the GoT studios down. Then there's Cersei's walk of shame. I'm sure people who are calling the show sexist will be thrilled about that.

Icing on the cake is Jon either dying or becoming a zombie.

Stannis may even lose, lol.

Reactions are going to be fun to read.

Is that from one of the chapters GRRM read publicly?

 

[Speevy]

Don't worry guys. Ramsay's going to destroy the entire Baratheon army with 6 guys and some dogs, shirtless.

 

[bengraven]

Is that from one of the chapters GRRM read publicly?

Just assumptions. We've all been doing the "this is obviously where the story is going" game lately.

 

[Massa]

Well as he said, there would be no way to hide his return once they start filming the next season.

Not if he's played by an albino siberian husky.

 

[Damerman]

We book readers know that Jon can't possibly be dead for real. (If the popular R+L=J theory is correct, The Song of Ice and Fire is literally about him)

Show watchers don't know that yet, although it has been hinted at. So I don't think that they would leave them in the dark for a whole year. I'm sure that Jon will "die" in episode 8 or 9 and one of the last scenes in episode 10 will be his resurrection through Melisandre.

in regards to this... i really can't help but feel like that this is the reason why Sansa was raped. If news of this reaches jon snow, it will force him to want to go south which leads to the mutiny. Honestly, it didn't take "rape" for jon to make the brash decision in the book. I don't see why they decided to do that to justify Theon's and Jon's reactions.

This season has been a major letdown so far, but who knows, maybe the final four episodes will redeem it. There is a ton of shit that still needs to happen this season and not much time to do it in so things will be coming hard and fast.

Hardholm
Cat of the Canals &

Spoiler

Mercy

The Pit
Trial & Walk of Shame
Dorne
Winterfell/Stannis stuff

all in the next four four hours of the show.

Spoiler

Mercy

is from winds of winter though, isn't it? wouldn't that part show up in the 6th season?

 

[Chris R]

Spoiler

Mercy

is from winds of winter though, isn't it? wouldn't that part show up in the 6th season?

There are set photos floating around that make this look like a lock for the current season.

 

[Massa]

I don't see "Don't make me rue the day I raped your mother" going so well if they decide to use it now.

 

[bengraven]

God we're going to be talking about this until after the season aren't we...

I don't see "Don't make me rue the day I raped your mother" going so well if they decide to use it now.

I actually wonder if they will use it...to reflect on his relationship with Ramsay's mother and the actual incident.

 

[Thaedolus]

God we're going to be talking about this until after the season aren't we...



I actually wonder if they will use it...to reflect on his relationship with Ramsay's mother and the actual incident.

If he was going to say the line, it would have been in the scene after the dinner where he was talking about how Ramsay was conceived. At least, I'm pretty sure that's when he said it in the book.

 

[Ganzlinger]

We book readers know that Jon can't possibly be dead for real. (If the popular R+L=J theory is correct, The Song of Ice and Fire is literally about him)

I don't know why people assume that. I always imagined that Ice = Walkers, Fire = Dragons

 

[kirblar]

I don't know why people assume that. I always imagined that Ice = Walkers, Fire = Dragons

Starks = Walkers = Ice. Targaeryan = Fire = Dragons.

edit: There's speculation that the Stark bloodline is connected to the Walkers directly.

 

[Brakke]

This season has been a major letdown so far, but who knows, maybe the final four episodes will redeem it. There is a ton of shit that still needs to happen this season and not much time to do it in so things will be coming hard and fast.

Hardholm
Cat of the Canals &

Spoiler

Mercy

The Pit
Trial & Walk of Shame
Dorne
Winterfell/Stannis stuff

all in the next four four hours of the show.

I didn't read Mercy yet. Arya probably going to kill Meryn Trant tho. Is that congruent with Mercy? Or will that be a different thing entirely?

I don't know why people assume that. I always imagined that Ice = Walkers, Fire = Dragons

Because if Jon's mom is of the line of the Icy North and his dad is of the line of the Dragonlords, then he's unique in being a child of Ice and Fire.

 

[-griffy-]

I don't know why people assume that. I always imagined that Ice = Walkers, Fire = Dragons

Ice=Stark (north/Winter is Coming)
Fire=Targaryen (dragons/fire)

There are numerous things it could be referring to obivously. Lyanna and Rhaegar being Jon's parents, making Jon the Song of Ice and Fire. Jon and Dany hooking up or fighting one another, making the Song their story. Or as you said White Walkers vs. Dragons. It could be any or even all of these things.

 

[eot]

Spoiler

Mercy

is from winds of winter though, isn't it? wouldn't that part show up in the 6th season?

Spoiler

Meryn Trant went to Braavos several episodes ago, Arya was saying his name to herself when she was waiting. They're clearly foreshadowing him getthing shanked. I think it'll be this season. The other answer is that it already happened, with Polliver instead.

I didn't read Mercy yet. Arya probably going to kill Meryn Trant tho. Is that congruent with Mercy? Or will that be a different thing entirely?

Spoiler

It's as congruent as we'll get.

 

[Patriots7]

I thought the "Pact of Ice and Fire" confirmed that it was referencing the Starks and Targs?

 

[Kain]

We need the Mannis as the Night's King reigning Bolvar Fordragon style.

 

[Ganzlinger]

Ice=Stark (north/Winter is Coming)
Fire=Targaryen (dragons/fire)

There are numerous things it could be referring to obivously. Lyanna and Rhaegar being Jon's parents, making Jon the Song of Ice and Fire. Jon and Dany hooking up or fighting one another, making the Song their story. Or as you said White Walkers vs. Dragons. It could be any or even all of these things.

Yeah, that's exactly my point. Why people are so sure it's about Jon? Or that the entire story is about him, the king Arthur of Westeros. It's too vague.

 

[AkuMifune]

Yeah, that's exactly my point. Why people are so sure it's about Jon? Or that the entire story is about him, the king Arthur of Westeros. It's too vague.

Just that his mom's identity has always been shady and they always go out of their way to say Rhaegar raped Ned's sister. More likely they ran off together, had Jon and Ned used his Honor as a shield to cover it up and save face. I'm sure if people found out Ned's bastard was actually Rhaegar's son they would have had him (Jon) executed.

But he has too much of Ned in him and will never leave his duty on the wall. So no king I imagine, but at least some child of prophecy. Also I'm sure someone more eloquent can summarize it better.

 

[Damerman]

Spoiler

Meryn Trant went to Braavos several episodes ago, Arya was saying his name to herself when she was waiting. They're clearly foreshadowing him getthing shanked. I think it'll be this season. The other answer is that it already happened, with Polliver instead.

i forgot about this.

 

[hipsterpants]

It's kinda crazy. Episode 8, 9 and 10 all seem perfectly legit options for it to me. Do we have 10s title yet?

If he gets stabbed, it should totally be "For the Watch." Though that might've been used for a prior episode lol

 

[Brakke]

If he gets stabbed, it should totally be "For the Watch." Though that might've been used for a prior episode lol

"The Sword In The Darkness" > "For The Watch"