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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 5 - Sundays on HBO

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C

cartoon_soldier

Member
Lothar said:
Tyrion, Berristan, Jorah, and dany (commanding dragons) could all have been involved. That's more than just Jon.

Plus we've already seen a big battle in the north. This would have been a different setting.
I don't think they made the right decision.
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Siege of Meeren serves no purpose. The big North battle didn't include White Walkers. This will be the first battle where we actually see WW fighting. We will see the Night's king come and probably kick a lot of ass. The season will end with "Winter has come". This establishes once again that WWs are the main threat to Westeros and probably also establishes Jon's arc and why he is so important to the whole series since he is the only person who seems to understand the threat posed by WWs.
 
M

munchie64

Member
Lothar said:
Tyrion, Berristan, Jorah, and dany (commanding dragons or a dothraki army) could all have been involved. That's more than just Jon.

Plus we've already seen a big battle in the north. This would have been a different setting.
I don't think they made the right decision.
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We'll be getting a battle involving all those characters (minus Selmy) in Mereen :p
 
M

matrix-cat

Member
Kain said:
God I hope Euron is made to be the new bad guy because I can't stand Ramsay. Joffrey was fun in a twisted way, Ramsay is just... I don't know, I sure as hell don't like him like I did old blondie Joff.
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Joffrey was fun to hate. He was a sniveling brat with a wonderfully punchable face, who was dumb as a post and only threatening because of his throne. He got regular dressing downs from all manner of much smarter characters who had no time for his shit, too.

Ramsay, on the other hand, is all-powerful and all-knowing. He can read your mind, he can send Ironborn running for the hills with naught but some kitchen knives, and you could set your watch by his rippling abs. At this point it feels like he has more screentime than any other character, and for three seasons straight he's 'won' every scene he's in. His character exists solely for the writers to say, "Look how horrible everything is! Verisimilitude!", nevermind Tyrion winning his freedom from bloodthirsty slavers by being a lovable scamp in the very same episode.
 
B

bodyofanamerican

Member
matrix-cat said:
Joffrey was fun to hate. He was a sniveling brat with a wonderfully punchable face, who was dumb as a post and only threatening because of his throne. He got regular dressing downs from all manner of much smarter characters who had no time for his shit, too.

Ramsay, on the other hand, is all-powerful and all-knowing. He can read your mind, he can send Ironborn running for the hills with naught but some kitchen knives, and you could set your watch by his rippling abs. At this point it feels like he has more screentime than any other character, and for three seasons straight he's 'won' every scene he's in. His character exists solely for the writers to say, "Look how horrible everything is! Verisimilitude!", nevermind Tyrion winning his freedom from bloodthirsty slavers by being a lovable scamp.
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All to set up his downfall by Reek's hand?
 
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
matrix-cat said:
Joffrey was fun to hate. He was a sniveling brat with a wonderfully punchable face, who was dumb as a post and only threatening because of his throne. He got regular dressing downs from all manner of much smarter characters who had no time for his shit, too.

Ramsay, on the other hand, is all-powerful and all-knowing. He can read your mind, he can send Ironborn running for the hills with naught but some kitchen knives, and you could set your watch by his rippling abs. At this point it feels like he has more screentime than any other character, and for three seasons straight he's 'won' every scene he's in. His character exists solely for the writers to say, "Look how horrible everything is! Verisimilitude!", nevermind Tyrion winning his freedom from bloodthirsty slavers by being a lovable scamp.
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http://www.vox.com/2015/5/27/8665573/game-of-thrones-the-gift-ramsay

Worse, it positions Ramsay as some kind of Joker-esque evil genius, whose depravity is matched only by his cunning. The decision to introduce Ramsay Bolton at all is only redeemable if he falls — if, as Matt suggested last week, his inability to rein in his cruelty causes his ultimate downfall in the same way that Ned Stark's refusal to compromise his honor caused his.
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Is Ramsay doesn't fall by end of this season it will be very disappointing.
 
B

Basileus777

Member
Ganzlinger said:
Good directors and screenwriters could make the Battle of Meereen very entertaining if they want. Not judging D&D's choices here.
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The source material failed here. The siege of Mereen in the books is a mess filled with one-dimensional orientalist cartoons. An adaptation isn't likely to fix it, especially given the costs involved.
 
R

Real Hero

Member
Exterminieren said:
Honestly, I think people have mistaken absence for "subtlety" for Loras's plot in the books. I'm far more inclined to think that GRRM could not give less of a shit about writing a gay character if he tried, rather than him writing this tremendously meaningful and subtle love story.
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That's unfair considering he just introduced another as a POV. Loras's sexuality is revealed subtly in the books, I'm not saying that's anything amazing but clearly it can be done in a much more horrible way.
 
B

Basileus777

Member
Real Hero said:
That's unfair considering he just introduced another as a POV. Loras's sexuality is revealed subtly in the books, I'm not saying that's anything amazing but clearly it can be done in a much more horrible way.
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Even the books have a dozen jokes aimed at Loras and Renly's sexuality, it's not really that subtle. Though the show does ruin Loras' character by making him a one dimensional stereotype.
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
Ganzlinger said:
Good directors and screenwriters could make the Battle of Meereen very entertaining if they want. Not judging D&D's choices here.
Click to expand...
It'd be one hell of an uphill battle to make it compelling. Just not enough characters the audience cares about involved and there's not a larger stake in what the fallout would mean (which is a huge part of what makes Kings Landing and Castle Black work well as battles).

George has crafted what's probably "realistic" scenario in what's happening in slaver's bay, but that doesn't inherently make it interesting to the audience.
 
M

munchie64

Member
I'm liking the idea Ramsay killing Shireen more and more. Both a major victory but massive loss for Stannis would be pretty cool to see. I honestly have no idea where the books are going in Winterfell, so I wanna see something awesome in the show. Stannis winning is the dream obviously.

I shouldn't get my hopes up though.
 
B

Basileus777

Member
Steelyuhas said:
It'd be one hell of an uphill battle to make it compelling. Just not enough characters the audience cares about involved and there's not a larger stake in what the fallout would mean (which is a huge part of what makes Kings Landing and Castle Black work well as battles).

George has crafted what's probably "realistic" scenario in what's happening in slaver's bay, but that doesn't inherently make it interesting to the audience.
Click to expand...

It's not really realistic either, not given the terrible characterization and exoticization of the Essos participants in the siege. The whole scenario falls into a ton of orientalist traps. The soldiers on stilts and slaves chained together doesn't really portray a realistic situation. It's a collection of extreme situations condensed into one event.
 
bengraven

bengraven

Member
You know if the final conflict is in the pit with like 20-30 people someone is going to take a screenshot of the battle and post "The Battle of Mereen" on it to be a smartass.
 
R

Real Hero

Member
Basileus777 said:
Even the books have a dozen jokes aimed at Loras and Renly's sexuality, it's not really that subtle. Though the show does ruin Loras' character by making him a one dimensional stereotype.
Click to expand...

It's subtle enough that people read those books without realizing they were gay. It's pretty subtle especially for these books.
 
M

Massa

Member
Show:
g62Knbv.jpg


Books:
TBD 2018
 
K

Kuroyume

Banned
cartoon_soldier said:
http://www.vox.com/2015/5/27/8665573/game-of-thrones-the-gift-ramsay



Is Ramsay doesn't fall by end of this season it will be very disappointing.
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Fucking stupid article

I don't like show Ramsay because I don't think they're doing the chracter any justice, but he's still the best thing going on this show now that Sandor isn't around. And Winterfell is still better than most of what is going on in the show. Unless you're THAT into Mereen, Dorne, and the adventures of Gilly and Sam. Which I have to question your sanity if you are because Dany hasn't been watchable since the dragons were born.
 
S

Speevy

Banned
Kuroyume said:
Fucking stupid article

I don't like show Ramsay because I don't think they're doing the chracter any justice, but he's still the best thing going on this show now that Sandor isn't around. And Winterfell is still better than most of what is going on in the show. Unless you're THAT into Mereen, Dorne, and the adventures of Gilly and Sam.
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He's the devil. What part of him haven't they done justice?
 
S

Shahadan

Member
They need someone the audience can hate. Cersei isn't enough and can be somewhat likeable.
If they bring Euron next season they can kill Ramsay off.

Like Joffrey he needs to be gone soon before being boring. He can't really one up himself now.
 
S

Speevy

Banned
Shahadan said:
They need someone the audience can hate. Cersei isn't enough and can be somewhat likeable.
If they bring Euron next season they can kill Ramsay off.

Like Joffrey he needs to be gone soon before being boring. He can't really one up himself now.
Click to expand...

He's going to flay the Winterfell Day Care and Puppy Orphanage.
 
K

Kuroyume

Banned
Speevy said:
He's the devil. What part of him haven't they done justice?
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He's too goofball-y. Waving the sausage around in Theon's face. The constant smirking. His voice. I just hate the representation.

And Theon definitely doesn't look the part. In the books he's missing fingers and pieces of flesh. Removed his teeth, etc. He is supposed to look like a corpse. And yet on the show Sanasa is wondering what Ramsay has done to Theon to make him the way he is. It should be goddamn obvious! Yeah, there's the rape. I give them that. But, where's the scene of Mance having to use his spearwives' skin to protect himself against the cold? Why haven't we seen him skin someone in the act? Don't even have to actually show it. Just show a silhouette and some screaming.
 
S

Speevy

Banned
Kuroyume said:
He's too goofball-y. Waving the sausage around in Theon's face. The constant smirking. His voice. I just hate the representation.

And Theon definitely doesn't look the part. In the books he's missing fingers and pieces of flesh. Removed his teeth, etc. He is supposed to look like a corpse. And yet on the show Sanasa is wondering what Ramsay has done to Theon to make him the way he is. It should be goddamn obvious! Yeah, there's the rape. I give them that. But, where's the scene of Mance having to use his spearwives' skin to protect himself against the cold? Why haven't we seen him skin someone in the act? Don't even have to actually show it. Just show a silhouette and some screaming.
Click to expand...

Alfie Allen's portrayal of Theon is outstanding. The concession was worth it.
 
B

Basileus777

Member
Kuroyume said:
He's too goofball-y. Waving the sausage around in Theon's face. The constant smirking. His voice. I just hate the representation.

And Theon definitely doesn't look the part. In the books he's missing fingers and pieces of flesh. Removed his teeth, etc. He is supposed to look like a corpse. And yet on the show Sanasa is wondering what Ramsay has done to Theon to make him the way he is. It should be goddamn obvious! Yeah, there's the rape. I give them that. .
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Theon does come off as fucked up and broken thanks to his actor's ability.
But, where's the scene of Mance having to use his spearwives' skin to protect himself against the cold? Why haven't we seen him skin someone in the act? Don't even have to actually show it. Just show a silhouette and some screaming
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Mance is dead.
cartoon_soldier said:
IMDB...so grain of salt. SPOILER

But FUCKING HELL if true

Episode 10

http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0153996/

Benjen Stark (Character) - Episode #5.10 (2015) TV episode, Played by Joseph Mawle
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IMDB is useless.
 
M

munchie64

Member
Ramsay has been pushed so much that I'd bet on him being dead by the end of this season. We now know they have human and supernatural villains right at the gates to replace him.

Also if Stannis wins, maybe he'll go to the Riverlands.
cartoon_soldier said:
IMDB...so grain of salt. SPOILER

But FUCKING HELL if true

Episode 10

http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0153996/

Benjen Stark (Character) - Episode #5.10 (2015) TV episode, Played by Joseph Mawle
Click to expand...
Yeah... no way.
 
E

Exterminieren

Banned
Real Hero said:
That's unfair considering he just introduced another as a POV. Loras's sexuality is revealed subtly in the books, I'm not saying that's anything amazing but clearly it can be done in a much more horrible way.
Click to expand...
I have far less issue with Loras's portrayal in the books than I do with Renly's in fairness. Loras is just blank, whereas Renly's a preening fop with a rainbow guard.

JonCon's homosexuality extends as far as him fawning over Rhaegar, and nothing more. It's not as bad as Renly, but I'm hardly going to be overjoyed by it.
Kuroyume said:
And Theon definitely doesn't look the part. In the books he's missing fingers and pieces of flesh. Removed his teeth, etc. He is supposed to look like a corpse. And yet on the show Sanasa is wondering what Ramsay has done to Theon to make him the way he is. It should be goddamn obvious! Yeah, there's the rape. I give them that. But, where's the scene of Mance having to use his spearwives' skin to protect himself against the cold? Why haven't we seen him skin someone in the act? Don't even have to actually show it. Just show a silhouette and some screaming.
Click to expand...

Hang on, I thought we were all about less is more?

No, we don't need to see Ramsey actually skinning someone for the act to be shocking. It was bad enough when he was skinning Theon in series 3, but you want him to be skinning little old ladies on screen?

Also, Alfie Allen is totally selling Theon's mental decay and the horror of his situation. You don't need him to look like a shambling corpse to pull that off.
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
Unless you can find an actor's CV that lists episodes (or directors) of the show or some other form of confirmation, I'd assume all guest stars listed for specific future episodes on IMDB are just random fans entering info.
 
F

foxtrot3d

Banned
BobTheFork said:
The whole Kings blood thing is a smoke screen IMO and I never thought it mattered.
Stannis's blood wasn't magical until his brother suddenly died and then it was?

I think Theon would work just fine.
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I don't know I think "King's Blood" simply means someone with some sort of power or lineage from someone with power. Basically, you just can't sacrifice some peasant but it has to be someone who matters. But, that could also just be bullshit. We do know that blood sacrifice is a necessary part of the magic after all it's written right on the Targaryen House banner "Fire and Blood" whether that blood needs to be "King's Blood" is another story. It makes you wonder how the Valyrians were able to use their blood magic were they sacrificing slaves or captured/rival lords?

cartoon_soldier said:
IMDB...so grain of salt. SPOILER

But FUCKING HELL if true

Episode 10

http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0153996/

Benjen Stark (Character) - Episode #5.10 (2015) TV episode, Played by Joseph Mawle
Click to expand...

GRRM should throw a fit if that happened and if he allowed it, WTF! No way! Oh my, I just had a thought:

What if Jon gets stabbed beyond the Wall by the Watch, they leave him and the Benjen appears to drag him away accompanied by the Others.
 
B

bodyofanamerican

Member
Shahadan said:
They need someone the audience can hate. Cersei isn't enough and can be somewhat likeable.
If they bring Euron next season they can kill Ramsay off.

Like Joffrey he needs to be gone soon before being boring. He can't really one up himself now.
Click to expand...

I'd say if he kills Shireen, that's the point of no return. That's the biggest display of villainy they have left they can have him do.
 
M

Massa

Member
foxtrot3d said:
GRRM should throw a fit if that happened and if he allowed it, WTF! No way! Oh my, I just had a thought:

What if Jon gets stabbed beyond the Wall by the Watch, they leave him and the Benjen appears to drag him away accompanied by the Others.
Click to expand...

Why would he throw a fit, the show is going to spoil much bigger things than that.

I don't think he'll be stabbed beyond the wall but what could happen is that Olly and friends bring his body over to the other side of the Wall, so he can lay in rest with his "wildling friends", and that's how he gets picked up by some White Walkers.
 
1

1138

Member
I hope that the threat to Shireen will make Stannis see the Lord of Light in a different light. Hopefully, both Melisandre and Selyse end up on the pyre if they keep bringing up Shireen.
 
E

Exterminieren

Banned
Real Hero said:
In the books? He's really not. He's basically just a young Robert but less drunk.
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Rubbish. He's copper, as Donal Nye says; pleasant to look at, but useless in every important sense. He adores bright colours, is good at dancing and enjoys games and pageantry; he shares Robert's impulsiveness, but that's about it.
 
B

Basileus777

Member
Exterminieren said:
Rubbish. He's copper, as Donal Nye says; pleasant to look at, but useless in every important sense. He adores bright colours, is good at dancing and enjoys games and pageantry; he shares Robert's impulsiveness, but that's about it.
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And pretty much everyone he interacts with mocks him for being gay. Even Stannis does it!
 
J

Jayof9s

Member
Basileus777 said:
It's not really realistic either, not given the terrible characterization and exoticization of the Essos participants in the siege. The whole scenario falls into a ton of orientalist traps. The soldiers on stilts and slaves chained together doesn't really portray a realistic situation. It's a collection of extreme situations condensed into one event.
Click to expand...

Honestly, the slavers with all the ridiculous soldiers weren't a realistic threat and the siege wouldn't have been a threat if it was just them. We hear more about them in the book because our perspective (Tyrion) was with the slave armies, however, the real threat that was mentioned but was never 'in action' were the sellswords and the Giscari(?) Legions if I'm remembering correctly, which were real soldiers that I assumed were at least somewhat in line with Roman Legions.
 
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