The same reason Littlefinger isn't in episodes 9 and 10. Hell if I know. I'm just reconfiguring the pieces of the puzzle.
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 5 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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The same reason Littlefinger isn't in episodes 9 and 10. Hell if I know. I'm just reconfiguring the pieces of the puzzle.
In the books, no sam didn't tell him but in the show he did.
CitizenVectron
Member
I'd also heard that he isn't in 9 or 10...but he also wasn't in 8. That was odd. I can't see him not being in either of the last 2.
Palette Swap
Member
Amazing back half of the episode. This is basically the first time (books included) someone has witnessed the extent of the peril and lived to tell the tale, right? (Dreams/visions not included)
I hope everyone forgets about Dorne, including the writers, and when the credits of the last episode roll, there's this text epilogue that name drops Jaime and Bronn in one sentence.
Myrcella, Bronn, and Jaime returned home.
Ellaria, Obara, Tyene, Nym, Dorann, Trystane, and Areo died on the way back to their home planet.
The next episode will have scenes from dorne unforunately.
His face was totally...
Just got to wonder what saves him.
Also, it is possible control of the dead is some higher level Warg shit? Like a grumpy old northern tree just having some fun? Final battle Bran is already growing stalks. Tree Vs. Tree.
Sam, A Storm of Swords?
hipsterpants
Member
I don't think Jon's going to attempt to go south. Why would you need to include that when you already have the Olly revenge plot set up?
Would you say they've handled Jon better in the show?
Would you say they've handled Jon better in the show?
Yeah, that was pretty incredible. The ending was brilliant. I guess that's where like 90% of the budget went into this season. Why Dorne looks like shit. Loved seeing Wun Wun (if it's him) just tear shit up. I just wish they had showed those giant spiders we keep hearing about.
Rest of the episode was pretty good. Sansa learning that Bran and Rickon are still alive. Tyrion and Dany wasn't terrible. Nice scenes at King's landing. Just good stuff all around except for Sam/Gilly. Tired of seeing these two.
Rest of the episode was pretty good. Sansa learning that Bran and Rickon are still alive. Tyrion and Dany wasn't terrible. Nice scenes at King's landing. Just good stuff all around except for Sam/Gilly. Tired of seeing these two.
Ape Gone Insane
Member
I hope he's with her or they reunite quickly when she fucks off to another tangent at the end of the season.
Palette Swap
Member
Sold !
Yeah, thinking and reading about it, I realize the show's shitty depiction of the Fist of the First Men has tainted my view of the event. It's pretty massive too. There weren't so many visible Others though, were there?
hipsterpants
Member
Hope you're excited for next season.
they have been gone for two entire seasons, so has the rest of the riverlands. I think she might appear thoough
Didn't GRRM just give an interview that basically confirms she is cut for good? Implying he's seen all the episodes and knows their plans and such.
LSH isn't gonna be in it, she would have at this point. Unless they extend the show a season and have next season introduce her and bring the Freys back into the struggle.
People need to come to grips with something.
For every stupid decision the writers have made this season or any others, resurrection is an incredibly bad television plot device. It's shocking once, and irritating afterwards, and doesn't really make anyone happy.
It depends on how it ends. If Jon were to get stabbed right now, it would feel like an injustice caused by misunderstandings and a lack of context. Which comes off as good for Jon as a character, but bad for everyone in the Night's Watch who does it because they're being impulsive. In the books, by the time he gets stabbed it was more like "wow, what took so long" because he had been making terrible choices throughout the entire book, especially with regards of how he chose to communicate his decisions.
But a lot can change in two episodes, and by the time he gets stabbed, it could easily feel like he's the biggest dumbass at the Wall.
I'm entirely making this up, but it'd be a great way to deliberately hide the character. No imdb spoilers, none of the actors associated with the group leaks onto the internet.
At the same time, they've cut out some great stuff and some terrible stuff. At this rate I think we barely get two more seasons.
The end of this episode shows that a form of resurrection exists, even if theyre dead.
Bran's stuff was so out of left field for the show too. But they did it.
I really thought Jon was going to get stabbed on that boat, there were two cloaked people sitting in the boat before they took off.
Based on how it's framed in the preview, the night's watch is probably going to trust Jon, but something will happen like an in-fight that makes everyone think Jon is one of them.
Maybe Edd gets into a brawl with one of the wildlings.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
If that's the case, killing Jon would seem pretty drastic a measure as opposed to something like, I dunno, throwing him in a cell or something.
CitizenVectron
Member
You know, I'm actually worried about how they will portray Jon's stabbing. Let's look at the two most likely ways it will play out:
1) Similar to the books, Jon gets a letter (or word) from Winterfell and decides to march with the NW + Free Folk. This would be very weird as he knows the threat that is coming. It also wouldn't make sense for Ollie to be the one to stab him for that reason (which will clearly happen), it would make more sense for Alliser and Edd, etc.
2) Jon gets stabbed by Ollie (and maybe others) after letting the Wildlings through. This is really dumb though, because then Ollie is being a total moron acting for selfish, vengeful reasons and not for the good of the NW or lands of men. The whole reason the stabbing made sense is because Robb really was breaking his vows to not get involved in southern politics, and the neutrality of the NW was in jeopardy by marching south. Ollie isn't doing the NW any favour by killing Jon in this scenario. It's like stabbing Jon because he slept with a woman, since that was a vow too, just one that doesn't really matter too much.
Knowing D&D, it will be reason #2 which while close in actions to the book, will have totally different (and conflicting) reasons.
1) Similar to the books, Jon gets a letter (or word) from Winterfell and decides to march with the NW + Free Folk. This would be very weird as he knows the threat that is coming. It also wouldn't make sense for Ollie to be the one to stab him for that reason (which will clearly happen), it would make more sense for Alliser and Edd, etc.
2) Jon gets stabbed by Ollie (and maybe others) after letting the Wildlings through. This is really dumb though, because then Ollie is being a total moron acting for selfish, vengeful reasons and not for the good of the NW or lands of men. The whole reason the stabbing made sense is because Robb really was breaking his vows to not get involved in southern politics, and the neutrality of the NW was in jeopardy by marching south. Ollie isn't doing the NW any favour by killing Jon in this scenario. It's like stabbing Jon because he slept with a woman, since that was a vow too, just one that doesn't really matter too much.
Knowing D&D, it will be reason #2 which while close in actions to the book, will have totally different (and conflicting) reasons.
They did wargs, but remember, multiple Starks can do the warg thing. Watch back the episodes when Bran enters a wolf. It just doesn't work on television.
The reason it doesn't work has nothing to do with how well it's pulled off. When one character enters another one, it's hard to stay concerned about the first character unless that character is on screen. The producers probably understood this and cut most of the warging that's prominent in the books out of the show.
When a character comes back to life, it begs one damning question. In a show where death is so final and devastating, why does this person get a free ticket out of it?
I know why the whitewalkers have to raise their army of the dead, but the rest of it, I wish they'd just leave it out.
Oooh, maybe! Whatever it was killed all the Wildlings outside that gate quick as hell. Maybe those weren't footfalls but wings beating
Ape Gone Insane
Member
I thought the entire point was they don't get a free ticket out of it. Grrm has always made the point that resurrection does not bring back the character as they were (something he was not keen on in LOTR with Gandalf), but some twisted version of them. We see this with LSH and Beric and will I imagine with Jon.
Though I do agree that doing it both with LSH and Jon is too much and it should be used sparingly.
hipsterpants
Member
Which is why they're playing up the "Olly wants revenge" angle. We might get some resistance, but there's no way the Watch will oppose the testimony of the other brothers that went with him (inb4 Edd is the only other one that survived). Olly solves that problem, even if it's pretty cheap writing. I mean another show I've been watching has pretty much the exact same plotline (parents are killed, kid gets told to fight back/make tough choices, ends up killing innocent person).
harriet the spy
Member
Great scene with Tyrion and Dany. But I am on the side of the few who think the rest was kind of boring action-y trash. It was well made, but I mentally checked out and always feel it's a waste of time for a show like GoT which is always pressed for time.
All that olly foreshadowing is awful and that kid actor is awful, too.
All that olly foreshadowing is awful and that kid actor is awful, too.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
At the end of ADWD, how many NW+Wildlings does Jon realistically have under his command to march south? In the show, there are much less wildlings and NW at The Wall. TV show Jon would surely be discouraged if he knew he could only muster such small reinforcements?
Best 20 mins of the series for me, even though I was confident Edd, Tormund, and Jon would make it out it was still pretty tense.
One little pet peeve was Jon searching for the daggers on his hands and knews and the WW comes up behind him with his spear but opts to instead just grab his shoulder and chuck him across the room.
Was also upset that the fires in the room didn't go out when he walked in, unless they did and I didn't catch it.
One little pet peeve was Jon searching for the daggers on his hands and knews and the WW comes up behind him with his spear but opts to instead just grab his shoulder and chuck him across the room.
Was also upset that the fires in the room didn't go out when he walked in, unless they did and I didn't catch it.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Resurrection is a *generally* bad plot device on any medium because it undoes the permanence (and shock) of character death. Which makes me think of two things atm:
1. One counter tactic is in a universe where none of the primary characters ever die and they only ever get 'knocked out' like Final Fantasy VII. Whether church or potion or phoenix down or spell, nobody ever actually died. That's one reason why the Aeris death was such a shock and ultimately effective as a narrative device.
2. I'm thinking about Lady Stoneheart combined with the above and thinking about what we know is going to happen to Jon. Maybe D/D are worried that revealing her now would ruin the shock of his death and will instead give her a later reveal after the fact? One could hope.
1. One counter tactic is in a universe where none of the primary characters ever die and they only ever get 'knocked out' like Final Fantasy VII. Whether church or potion or phoenix down or spell, nobody ever actually died. That's one reason why the Aeris death was such a shock and ultimately effective as a narrative device.
2. I'm thinking about Lady Stoneheart combined with the above and thinking about what we know is going to happen to Jon. Maybe D/D are worried that revealing her now would ruin the shock of his death and will instead give her a later reveal after the fact? One could hope.
But they already resurrected someone on the show? Or am I remembering wrong? Didn't they resurrect a Brotherhood member in that cave?
Didn't read 2. until after I replied. That makes way more sense to hold her off.
harriet the spy
Member
They did.
As far as I know, his mother just makes the best potatoes. But your version is more interesting.
Satin? Olly's definitely got shades of him. Super different origin story obviously, and Olly's more directly invested in hating Wildlings.
Yeah I actively hate about the books how much resurrection and death fake-outs they have. The only one I'm basically chill with is the Hound, since he comes back but he's basically a totally different person and he's not a player in any kind of way. A death, even a death reversed, ought to have some permanent impact.
They revived Beric Donderion. In the books, he basically gives his revivability to Cat, creating Lady Stoneheart.
Ape Gone Insane
Member
Satin, that's it.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
It just always seemed silly to me that those crazy Night's Watch guys would kill Jon while they're surrounded by Wildlings, and Jon is pretty much the only one keeping the Watch-Wildling truce together.
Beric Dondarrion is a perfect example.
Remember when you were rooting for The Hound to die because Arya wanted revenge?
Now, The Hound won and you were like ah well, The Hound lives. Shit sucks. But then Beric came back, and I felt nothing. I wasn't relieved or amazed or anything. It was just like wow there he is again. What was the point of that?
Remember when you were rooting for The Hound to die because Arya wanted revenge?
Now, The Hound won and you were like ah well, The Hound lives. Shit sucks. But then Beric came back, and I felt nothing. I wasn't relieved or amazed or anything. It was just like wow there he is again. What was the point of that?
Moff
Member
setup for jon's resurrection
Yeah, even in the books it's really kinda dumb all-around. Not to mention an enraged giant stomping around pretty close. So unless every brother in the NW was in on it and have some incredibly awesome strategy (something they're quite well known for right?), then they're fucked. Outnumbered and hated already and they just "killed" off the only guy the Wildlings...tolerated. I don't even think the word "like" fits there.
Speak for yourself. I was rooting for the Hound.
Beric's revival was cool, in part because Beric's a pretty cool character in the way he's presented. It was also a fun wtf moment and created some intrigue about the Lord of Light stuff.
They needed to do Beric's revival because it establishes resurrection in the story. Overusing it would lessen the impact for when it really matters(Jon).
Ok, so thinking it through, this is how I hope the Northern stuff resolves, given where we are at this point.
1. While Ramsay is out, Theon wanders the castle and comes to the godswood, where he makes his confession to the heart tree. He decides saving Sansa is his only path towards atonement, so he goes and plants the candle and gets Sansa. Brienne arrives and takes Sansa. Theon plans to stay, but Sansa insists he's coming with them. Brienne asks who he is, and he tells her his name is Theon Greyjoy. On the way out, they run into Myranda, who wonders who Brienne is and what Sansa is doing out. Sansa shanks her with the corkscrew and leaves her for Ramsay to find.
2. Ramsay raids Stannis' camp and starts fires. Not sure what all is involved here, but Mel will probably do some crazy climactic magic here, not sure if it will involve the sacrifice or not.
3. Jon returns to Castle Black. Alisser gives him shit, but ultimately lets him through. Jon sends Sam to Oldtown to train as a maester and to research anything he can there, particularly Valyrian steel.
4. Then episode ten, Ramsay gets back, discovers the escape, and is furious. Writes the Pink Letter. References to Stannis' death may be replaced with references to to all of Stannis' men he just burned instead, unless they do something really crazy where Ramsay somehow believes he killed Stannis during the raid.
5. Stannis sets out, badly weakened but alive. Theon, Sansa, Brienne and Prodrick run into him on the way. We leave off here before we can see how Brienne chooses to react to Stannis.
6. Jon gets the letter, and prepares to march the Wildlings to Winterfell. Alisser tells him the Watch will be destroyed if he does this, but he doesn't care. Alisser initiates FTW. Edd sides with Alisser, Olly remains loyal and dies for it. Olly is too obvious at this point. End season.
1. While Ramsay is out, Theon wanders the castle and comes to the godswood, where he makes his confession to the heart tree. He decides saving Sansa is his only path towards atonement, so he goes and plants the candle and gets Sansa. Brienne arrives and takes Sansa. Theon plans to stay, but Sansa insists he's coming with them. Brienne asks who he is, and he tells her his name is Theon Greyjoy. On the way out, they run into Myranda, who wonders who Brienne is and what Sansa is doing out. Sansa shanks her with the corkscrew and leaves her for Ramsay to find.
2. Ramsay raids Stannis' camp and starts fires. Not sure what all is involved here, but Mel will probably do some crazy climactic magic here, not sure if it will involve the sacrifice or not.
3. Jon returns to Castle Black. Alisser gives him shit, but ultimately lets him through. Jon sends Sam to Oldtown to train as a maester and to research anything he can there, particularly Valyrian steel.
4. Then episode ten, Ramsay gets back, discovers the escape, and is furious. Writes the Pink Letter. References to Stannis' death may be replaced with references to to all of Stannis' men he just burned instead, unless they do something really crazy where Ramsay somehow believes he killed Stannis during the raid.
5. Stannis sets out, badly weakened but alive. Theon, Sansa, Brienne and Prodrick run into him on the way. We leave off here before we can see how Brienne chooses to react to Stannis.
6. Jon gets the letter, and prepares to march the Wildlings to Winterfell. Alisser tells him the Watch will be destroyed if he does this, but he doesn't care. Alisser initiates FTW. Edd sides with Alisser, Olly remains loyal and dies for it. Olly is too obvious at this point. End season.
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