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[mantidor]

The Sparrows are re-instituting old forms of justice. Ned was also asked to confess, and he did if you'll recall, and was told he could take the black as punishment. But Joffrey ordered him to be executed on the spot in spite of his (false) confession. Tommen isn't as headstrong and the crown doesn't hold as much power now as it did then.

Old forms of justice does make sense now.

No, Ned was accused for treason. An offense to the King and the realm. It has nothing to do with the Faith. It was a political execution.

Cercei is also acussed of treason.

 

[Red Arremer]

I get that but is this a new thing? Could have Ned asked for mother's mercy? From what you guys are saying I'm understanding this is a faith thing, which now has overruled everything, even the freaking king himself, but that doesn't make much sense to me.

See that's the problem with the show rushing things so much. But since their basic plot is the same as in the books, I'll try to explain it.

Ned Stark getting arrested had nothing to do with the Faith. He was arrested by the Lannisters' men, and just was paraded in front of the Sept of Baelor, and Joffrey, in a whim (or perhaps not, we'll never know exactly) decided to execute Ned.

Spoiler

Sidenote: The Faith actually did not like an execution taking place at the center of their religion.

So, what's going on with the arrest of the queens is a lot different, and a lot of the important details get lost in the transition to the show. In the books, the crown owes a lot of money to various parties - the Iron Bank of Braavos, Tywin Lannister, but also the Faith of the Seven, to which they owe millions of gold. With the Iron Bank starting to call in their credits, Cersei was getting desperate to find ways to postpone paying back the debts. So she made a deal with the High Sparrow - she would allow the re-institution of the Faith Militant, and in return, the Faith would purge the debts the crown owed to it. Additionally, the High Sparrow would give his blessing to King Tommen (he refused to do so up until that point), which is an important symbolic act of legitimacy for the Iron Throne's occupant.

The Faith Militant is a lot different in the books than it is in the show - in the show it's just a bunch of barefoot monks with clubs, but in the books it's separated into 2 "orders" - the Poor Fellows, which are the main militia, and the Warrior's Sons, which are a set of 7 knights (one of which is Lancel in the books). Both factions are armed very well, and they are commanded only by the High Septon. No nobility or royalty is capable of opposing the Faith.

So, Cersei, in essence, established 2 sets of laws - the law of the state, which are enforced by the nobility, their men and, in King's Landing, the Goldcloaks, and the law of the Faith, which is enforced by the High Septon and his militia. Cersei was arrested underneath the religious laws. Additionally, Cersei is not a particularly popular ruler, and the rumours of Tommen being a bastard of incest grow ever so stronger. If Tommen or his men would strike against the Faith, they could provoke nothing short of a civil uprising.

Isn't the blade Jon gave Arya also made of Valyrian steel?

No, Needle is just regular castle-forged steel, not Valyrian.

 

[Electric_ Cthulhu]

You probably mean oathkeeper

Yes, of course. Little Freudian slip.

 

[mantidor]

That explains it so much better thanks.

The show has certainly failed to convey the popular support the faith have, they barely showed some poor people being fed by them but that was it.

 

[Vik]

You probably mean oathkeeper
Jeffrey's is Lion's paw, donno what happened of it, probably buried with him

Widow's Wail actually

 

[Red Arremer]

That explains it so much better thanks.

The show has certainly failed to convey the popular support the faith have, they barely showed some poor people being fed by them but that was it.

They tried to convey that in the scene between the Sparrow and Olenna, where he basically threatens her, but it felt kinda hollow.
Glad I could help, though!

Spoiler

I also did some edits to clarify a few parts.

 

[carlsojo]

Widow's Wail actually

Yep and no way they buried that thing with him. Likely it was given to Tommen and he probably put it on a shelf or something.

 

[Red Arremer]

Yeah, Widow's Wail is the second sword forged from Ice.
Joffrey had several swords he named, though, and one of them was Lion's Tooth, which was the sword that Arya took from him and tossed into the river during their journey from Winterfell to King's Landing. He also had Hearteater I think, which was the one he carried during the Battle of the Blackwater.

And yes, the sword passed on to Tommen, I think it's actually mentioned at some point. Plus of course, Tywin always was incredibly upset at House Lannister being such an old and powerful family, but not owning any Valyrian steel swords. He even tried buying one from lesser, poor houses, but even those refused to sell 'em. I'm sure he made absolutely certain Widow's Wail would pass on.

 

[foxtrot3d]

That explains it so much better thanks.

The show has certainly failed to convey the popular support the faith have, they barely showed some poor people being fed by them but that was it.

The show seems to be taken a different approach to the Faith as well. In the books it's much more of a return to more Classic Catholicism, with the Papacy aka The High Septon having more power. In the show it seems to be much more of a Protestant Reformation of the Faith. You see this by the fact that the Sparrows actually take the current High Septon, who again is essentially the Pope, strip him naked and force him to do a Walk of Shame. The HS also makes comments about how the Sept of Baelor is vainglorious but that instead the plain, unadorned stone structures of the original Sept are more in keeping with the Gods. They also pen Margaery and Cercei up in dank cellars and essentially torture them with water and lack of food.

It's basically the opposite, as I said, in the books. The High Sparrow comes into power after Cercei has the last one assassinated since he was "appointed" by Tyrion and Cercei is paranoid about any of Tyrion's people remaining. Afterwards, the Septons all meet to elect the new HS and in bursts the High Sparrow on the backs of all the regular Sparrows with weapons in their hands, they demand he be elected and the Septons relent. Cercei believing herself to be sly rearms the Faith in exchange for the Faith excusing the Crown's debt to it and the promise that Tommen would finally be anointed by the HS as King. Cercei then enacts a plot to try and get Margaery imprisoned and trial by the Faith for infidelity, but long story short it backfires and she gets imprisoned as well. But, her confinement is not abysmal. Both her and Margaery are confined to the towers with appropriate furnishing and are provided with food and water, of course they are not allowed to leave, are not really allowed to sleep as Cercei is repeatedly woken in the night and told to "confess," and no one is allowed to talk to them.

 

[Electric_ Cthulhu]

I'm sure he made absolutely certain Widow's Wail would pass on.

Yeah, not only is it made from Valyrian steel but it also symbolizes his victory over the Starks. By melting down Ice, he made Ned's defeat complete.

 

[Obscured]

Posted by Dennis in the no-spoiler thread. This is too good:

​

That is pretty great, but It bugged me that they killed her off because hey she loves her kids and so she can't fight kids and just gives up, but overall a great episode.

Guess we know where that fight choreography money went now. (If I wasn't lazy I'd post that sandsnakes fight gif now).

Also I fully expect a 'This is NeoGaf' gif of the NK raising the dead at the end there.

 

[Ganzlinger]

Cercei is also acussed of treason.

As said above, the High Sparrow is bringing ancient forms of justice which used a lot of religious theme. Cersei is accused mostly of adultery, incest, and false testimony, all religious offenses. The "treason" fact is a plus and could be interpreted as treason to the gods as well but, at this rate, they are clearly overruling the King's law (In the show).

In the books, Red Arremer explained perfectly.

 

[Kyougar]

While we are seeing mermaids on every corner and have ridiculous (but true!) conspiracy stories, the show watchers even remember the finest details.

Season 1, episode 1.

Season 5, episode 8

(from Einchy )

 

[foxtrot3d]

No, it was forged in Winterfell.

There are seven known Valyrian blades around. But the only ones of significance seem to be Longclaw, Oathbreaker, Heartsbane and the one Joffrey had (if it still exists).

Well, seven explicitly mentioned would be more accurate. Tyrion surmises in "A Storm of Swords" that there were probably 200 Valyrian Steel Swords around in the possession of various royal houses.

 

[Snuggles]

I think they're two different girls....

 

[Red Arremer]

Well, seven explicitly mentioned would be more accurate. Tyrion surmises in "A Storm of Swords" that there were probably 200 Valyrian Steel Swords around in the possession of various royal houses.

There's 7 swords we know the existence of:
Widow's Wail, Oathkeeper, Longclaw, Heartsbane (Tarly), Lady Forlorn (Corbray), Nightfall (Harlaw), and Red Rain (Drumm).
There's also various other Valyrian steel weapons (e.g. Littlefinger's dagger, and House Celtigar's axe).

Are you sure Tyrion surmises there's 200 Valyrian Steel blades in Westeros? Because for a material that rare and sought after, that seems awfully much. 20 seems a lot more likely.

 

[Joni]

There's 7 swords we know the existence of:
Widow's Wail, Oathkeeper, Longclaw, Heartsbane (Tarly), Lady Forlorn (Corbray), Nightfall (Harlaw), and Red Rain (Drumm).
There's also various other Valyrian steel weapons (e.g. Littlefinger's dagger, and House Celtigar's axe).

Are you sure Tyrion surmises there's 200 Valyrian Steel blades in Westeros? Because for a material that rare and sought after, that seems awfully much. 20 seems a lot more likely.

Apparantly: A Storm of Swords, Chapter 32, Tyrion. World of Ice and Fire says there are 227 in Westeros. Might include weapons of all kinds, not just swords.

 

[Veritigo_X]

Well, seven explicitly mentioned would be more accurate. Tyrion surmises in "A Storm of Swords" that there were probably 200 Valyrian Steel Swords around in the possession of various royal houses.

That seems like a lot since Tywin was trying forever to buy one from other houses. 200 means that every lesser house probably has one lying around. How did none of the houses he's invaded during the various wars have one for him to take?

 

[Red Arremer]

Apparantly: A Storm of Swords, Chapter 32, Tyrion. World of Ice and Fire says there are 227 in Westeros.

Dang.
There has to be one for just about every House lol.

 

[fuzzyset]

There's 7 swords we know the existence of:
Widow's Wail, Oathkeeper, Longclaw, Heartsbane (Tarly), Lady Forlorn (Corbray), Nightfall (Harlaw), and Red Rain (Drumm).
There's also various other Valyrian steel weapons (e.g. Littlefinger's dagger, and House Celtigar's axe).

Are you sure Tyrion surmises there's 200 Valyrian Steel blades in Westeros? Because for a material that rare and sought after, that seems awfully much. 20 seems a lot more likely.

There's also Dawn which is not Valyrian, but could have even weirder/better properties as it is described as Valyrian-like but milky white. It's from a fallen meteor/star which could very likely tie into the comet from earlier in the series.

edit: Considering one of the theories for Jon's mom is Ashara Dayne, Jon could rise as the Sword of the Morning. Dawn = Sun = Light. Could be interesting.

 

[foxtrot3d]

There's 7 swords we know the existence of:
Widow's Wail, Oathkeeper, Longclaw, Heartsbane (Tarly), Lady Forlorn (Corbray), Nightfall (Harlaw), and Red Rain (Drumm).
There's also various other Valyrian steel weapons (e.g. Littlefinger's dagger, and House Celtigar's axe).

Are you sure Tyrion surmises there's 200 Valyrian Steel blades in Westeros? Because for a material that rare and sought after, that seems awfully much. 20 seems a lot more likely.

Here's the exact quote:

At long last, Father? Valyrian steel blades were scarce and costly, yet thousands remained in the world, perhaps two hundred in the Seven Kingdoms alone. It had always irked his father that none belonged to House Lannister. The old Kings of the Rock had owned such a weapon, but the greatsword Brightroar had been lost when the second King Tommen carried it back to Valyria on his fool's quest. He had never returned; nor had Uncle Gery, the youngest and most reckless of his father's brothers, who had gone seeking after the lost sword some eight years past.

Thrice at least Lord Tywin had offered to buy Valyrian longswords from impoverished lesser houses, but his advances had always been firmly rebuffed. The little lordlings would gladly part with their daughters should a Lannister come asking, but they cherished their old family swords.

By the way, I don't know if you guys know about this but this resource is a godsend:
A Search of Ice and Fire

 

[Joni]

That seems like a lot since Tywin was trying forever to buy one from other houses. 200 means that every lesser house probably has one lying around. How did none of the houses he's invaded during the various wars have one for him to take?

Thanks to Reddit.

Thrice at least Lord Tywin had offered to buy Valyrian longswords from impoverished lesser houses, but his advances had always been firmly rebuffed. The little lordlings would gladly part with their daughters should a Lannister come asking, but they cherished their old family swords.

Valyrian steel blades were scarce and costly, yet thousands remained in the world, perhaps two hundred in the Seven Kingdoms alone. It had always irked his father that none belonged to House Lannister. The old Kings of the Rock had owned such a weapon, but the greatsword Brightroar had been lost when the second King Tommen carried it back to Valyria on his fool’s quest. He had never returned; nor had Uncle Gery, the youngest and most reckless of his father’s brothers, who had gone seeking after the lost sword some eight years past.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

More people Balon has outlived: Rattleshirt and most of Hardhome

Also why didn't they build the Wall out of dragon glass? Would've come in handy right about now.

It's brittle and shitty and rare, that's why.

And it had no effect on the wights, only on the Others (Sam broke his dagger stabbing the Small Paul Wight). Good luck getting close enough to one of the leaders with useless glass daggers against an army of undead.

 

[Red Arremer]

I firmly stand corrected, then.

Also, when it comes to factual stuff like that, I usually check back with the ASoIaF wiki. I never could've told you that the name of House Harlaw's sword was Nightfall.

It's brittle and shitty and rare, that's why.

And it had no effect on the wights, only on the Others (Sam broke his dagger stabbing the Small Paul Wight). Good luck getting close enough to one of the leaders with useless glass daggers against an army of undead.

Yeah, Obsidian is extremely unfit as a building material.

 

[Patriots7]

House Royce has on I think

 

[Red Arremer]

House Royce has on I think

They used to, it got lost at the Storming of the Dragonpit during the Dance of the Dragons.

 

[hoos30]

See that's the problem with the show rushing things so much. But since their basic plot is the same as in the books, I'll try to explain it.

Ned Stark getting arrested had nothing to do with the Faith. He was arrested by the Lannisters' men, and just was paraded in front of the Sept of Baelor, and Joffrey, in a whim (or perhaps not, we'll never know exactly) decided to execute Ned.

Spoiler

Sidenote: The Faith actually did not like an execution taking place at the center of their religion.

So, what's going on with the arrest of the queens is a lot different, and a lot of the important details get lost in the transition to the show. In the books, the crown owes a lot of money to various parties - the Iron Bank of Braavos, Tywin Lannister, but also the Faith of the Seven, to which they owe millions of gold. With the Iron Bank starting to call in their credits, Cersei was getting desperate to find ways to postpone paying back the debts. So she made a deal with the High Sparrow - she would allow the re-institution of the Faith Militant, and in return, the Faith would purge the debts the crown owed to it. Additionally, the High Sparrow would give his blessing to King Tommen (he refused to do so up until that point), which is an important symbolic act of legitimacy for the Iron Throne's occupant.

The Faith Militant is a lot different in the books than it is in the show - in the show it's just a bunch of barefoot monks with clubs, but in the books it's separated into 2 "orders" - the Poor Fellows, which are the main militia, and the Warrior's Sons, which are a set of 7 knights (one of which is Lancel in the books). Both factions are armed very well, and they are commanded only by the High Septon. No nobility or royalty is capable of opposing the Faith.

So, Cersei, in essence, established 2 sets of laws - the law of the state, which are enforced by the nobility, their men and, in King's Landing, the Goldcloaks, and the law of the Faith, which is enforced by the High Septon and his militia. Cersei was arrested underneath the religious laws. Additionally, Cersei is not a particularly popular ruler, and the rumours of Tommen being a bastard of incest grow ever so stronger. If Tommen or his men would strike against the Faith, they could provoke nothing short of a civil uprising.



No, Needle is just regular castle-forged steel, not Valyrian.

Umm, thank god the show didn't try to explain any of that.

 

[Veritigo_X]

Thanks to Reddit.

I just think it's weird since Tywin utterly destroyed some houses during the whole Castamere thing. He must've been unlucky and picked the only two houses in Westeros that don't have a Valyrian steel sword, haha.

 

[Kyougar]

You guys really underestimate the number of houses, big and tiny, Westeros has.

Also there may be 200 Weapons made of Valerian steel, but how many are battlecapable Swords? I dont think Tywin would have been content with a dagger. Better have nothing than to tell the whole neighbourhood your thing is tiny.

We kinda see this with the dagger the assassin uses. it is Valerian steel but nobody thinks of anything special of it, apart from commenting on the steel. It's not like they gathered around it like caveman who made their first fire.

 

[BobTheFork]

They can just take every Valyrian steel sword there is and forge is into one massive sword.

Wun Wun the destroyer hath come!

 

[Red Arremer]

You guys really underestimate the number of houses, big and tiny, Westeros has.

Valyrian Steel was already immensely expensive and rare before the Doom of Valyria, it became even scarcer after the Doom when there was no more Valyrians to make the steel.

There's a lot of houses, yes, but only few would be wealthy enough to be able to afford a Valyrian Steel sword. Keep in mind that this house would have to have enough income to buy one, so it can realistically only be houses that own land.

Most of the lesser houses are knightly and, at best, maintain a castle for their bigger overlord (and that's still a tier below the great houses governing the regions - for instance Houses Erenford and Haigh are sworn to House Frey).

 

[Fuzzy]

By the way, I don't know if you guys know about this but this resource is a godsend:
A Search of Ice and Fire

I didn't know about this. Bookmarked. Thanks.

 

[Kaladin]

They need more than Valyrian Steel.....they need the houses to unite against a common enemy.

That's not going to happen.

 

[Kyougar]

Valyrian Steel was already immensely expensive and rare before the Doom of Valyria, it became even scarcer after the Doom when there was no more Valyrians to make the steel.

There's a lot of houses, yes, but only few would be wealthy enough to be able to afford a Valyrian Steel sword. Keep in mind that this house would have to have enough income to buy one, so it can realistically only be houses that own land.

Most of the lesser houses are knightly and, at best, maintain a castle for their bigger overlord (and that's still a tier below the great houses governing the regions - for instance Houses Erenford and Haigh are sworn to House Frey).

not everyone would have bought it. There could be fallen houses, raids, gifts for exemplary Service etc.

My personal view on valerian steel ownage: I would THINK openly stealing a Valerian sword would be frowned upon in the seven Kingdoms. A sword, Valerian for that matter, is a symbol for the house, the Statussymbol of a knight. It should have been considered rude to take away valerian steel from a fallen foe. Only treason or such would be a good argument for taking away a Family sword.
i.e. tywin melting down Ice.

 

[Iksenpets]

not everyone would have bought it. There could be fallen houses, raids, gifts for exemplary Service etc.

My personal view on valerian steel ownage: I would THINK openly stealing a Valerian sword would be frowned upon in the seven Kingdoms. A sword, Valerian for that matter, is a symbol for the house, the Statussymbol of a knight. It should have been considered rude to take away valerian steel from a fallen foe. Only treason or such would be a good argument for taking away a Family sword.
i.e. tywin melting down Ice.

Well, all the ironborn's rare weapons seem to have been stolen from mainlanders, but they're not really beholden to the same honor codes as everyone else. Otherwise, yeah, everyone seems pretty good about not stealing them.

 

[biosnake20]

Interesting reddit theory: Longclaw is actually Blackfyre

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/388feg/spoilers_all_with_renewed_longclaw_hype_i_present/

Always can depend on reddit for some Valyrian tinfoil.

 

[Electric_ Cthulhu]

They can just take every Valyrian steel sword there is and forge is into one massive sword.

Wun Wun the destroyer hath come!

Wun Wun is Azor Ahai. Or rather Azor Ahigh.

 

[Red Arremer]

Interesting reddit theory: Longclaw is actually Blackfyre

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/388feg/spoilers_all_with_renewed_longclaw_hype_i_present/

Always can depend on reddit for some Valyrian tinfoil.

Oh delicious. Gonna read that tomorrow in class.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

God, now there is a whole gif leak from Episode 9

 

[biosnake20]

Notlikethis.gif

 

[biosnake20]

Ice dragon confirmed

http://gfycat.com/DetailedMerryGermanpinscher

 

[foxtrot3d]

Interesting reddit theory: Longclaw is actually Blackfyre

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/388feg/spoilers_all_with_renewed_longclaw_hype_i_present/

Always can depend on reddit for some Valyrian tinfoil.

No, no, no. Oh and NO.

 

[H.Cornerstone]

Interesting reddit theory: Longclaw is actually Blackfyre

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/388feg/spoilers_all_with_renewed_longclaw_hype_i_present/

Always can depend on reddit for some Valyrian tinfoil.

All of these not-so-crazy crazy theories are so great.

And I don't see an Ice Dragon.

 

[biosnake20]

God, now there is a whole gif leak from Episode 9

A gif or that synopsis?

 

[TheSadRanger]

Interesting reddit theory: Longclaw is actually Blackfyre

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/388feg/spoilers_all_with_renewed_longclaw_hype_i_present/

Always can depend on reddit for some Valyrian tinfoil.

I'm pretty sure Longclaw is just a family sword of the Mormont family.

edit nvm,

 

[cartoon_soldier]

A gif or that synopsis?

Spoiler

gif of some roasting

 

[Red Arremer]

Ice dragon confirmed

http://gfycat.com/DetailedMerryGermanpinscher

Whatever this is supposed to be, it doesn't load for me, so.

 

[foxtrot3d]

All of these not-so-crazy crazy theories are so great.

And I don't see an Ice Dragon.

I don't even classify that as "not so crazy" it's straight up loony tunes. The whole theory is based on countless people lying about a sword which they have no reason to lie about.

 

[CrocMother]

Ice dragon confirmed

http://gfycat.com/DetailedMerryGermanpinscher

I don't see shit lol

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Whatever this is supposed to be, it doesn't load for me, so.

During the attack at start where the snow is rolling down the hills you see something flying. Some object, whatever it is.