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[-griffy-]

I always get confused for a few seconds when I read "cleganebowl" before I remember it's a match, not a dish. I always think of Jojenpaste and my head gets strange ideas xD

The best way to serve Jojenpaste is in a nice, clean Cleganebowl, as everyone knows.

 

[Iksenpets]

dany: we will besiege casterly rock, prepare the troops and feed the dragons
tyrion: we cannot do that, we need to inspire devotion in the people of westeros, give me one hilarious sidekick and we will impregnate that bitch
daario: why would you do that? you are a dwarf. besides, I have a whole fleet of ironborn at my disposal
tyrion: It has to be me, I know where the backdoor of the sewers is

Hey man, it worked out great when she sent three dudes into the secret backdoor of Yunkai. All you've got to do is take out the one guard, then fancily twirl-fight your way through the city streets.

 

[Moff]

I am conflicted about cleganebowl, it is dumb fan servive, but I would love to see it happen.
I think the best case scenario is for it to happen in the show but not in the books

 

[suzu]

I hate Cleganebowl

I hope it never happens

If The Hound ever leaves that monastery I will be so pissed. Stow that fanservice bullshit.

👎

 

[Fuzzy]

Isn't Casterly Rock on the western side of Westeros, though? Though I guess that would make for an extra sneaky invasion.

But if Dany goes to Asshai she can keep going east until she wraps around the world and comes to Westeros from the western shore.

 

[Red Arremer]

GRRM said the novels will never go to Asshai, he wants to keep it to be mysterious.

 

[BobTheFork]

I am conflicted about cleganebowl, it is dumb fan servive, but I would love to see it happen.
I think the best case scenario is for it to happen in the show but not in the books

I don't think it's fan-service. They set up The Hounds hatred of his brother and their arc together very early. It feels like just a waste for them to not finish their arc.

 

[munchie64]

You guys need to accept the true prophesy

 

[RatskyWatsky]

No Seville or Osuna makes sense. Most of the Dornish cast will be heading to King's Landing or elsewhere, other than Prince Doran, and he probably won't have enough scenes to justify the cost. If he's needed for anything I imagine they'll have to just build a set or green screen it or something. And Osuna was really only in for the Pit, so no need to go there again.

Girona really does seem like it has to be Oldtown. Not sure what Peñiscola is for, since I can't think of any new castles that would need to be introduced. Maybe some of the interiors work well for the Citadel or something? Or we're just going somewhere we don't know about yet.

Not seeing the Pit again next year makes sense, but no Seville means no Dorne, right? At least not the Water Gardens? Could Peñiscola be used for Sunspear? If not, that has to mean that they're migrating Ellaria, Sand Snakes, et al to other parts of the world (Oldtown and/or King's Landing). Hm.

 

[Brakke]

👎

It's dramatically vapid. The Hound hated the Mountain so that's a cool satisfying fight but the mountain and the hound are both dead so whatever that beef is settled. "Hey Sandor your brother is a headless hulking monster in thrall to Cersei wanna go bop him?" "So his brain and personality are gone and his body is shred and rebuilt and undead? Uhhh naw dude I'm good."

What could even motivate Sandor to return to King's Landing? The only person he cares about is Sansa I guess? But we already have an ugly Knight of Friendzone lusting after a young babe with Jorah, we don't need another.

I don't think it's fan-service. They set up The Hounds hatred of his brother and their arc together very early. It feels like just a waste for them to not finish their arc.

Arcs can end without violence. The Hound was killed away from the capital and learned to set violence aside. The Mountain was killed at the capital and is now trapped in an eternity of violence.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Not seeing the Pit again next year makes sense, but no Seville means no Dorne, right? At least not the Water Gardens? Could Peñiscola be used for Sunspear? If not, that has to mean that they're migrating Ellaria, Sand Snakes, et al to other parts of the world (Oldtown and/or King's Landing). Hm.

I think it really only means no Water Gardens.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

I think it really only means no Water Gardens.

I'm okay with that. It wouldn't make sense for the Dorne characters to remain there forever - plus it was supposedly really difficult to film in Seville due to the exclusivity of the locale and the restrictions placed on the production (or am I thinking of a different location?).

 

[StopMakingSense]

I'm okay with that. It wouldn't make sense for the Dorne characters to remain there forever - plus it was supposedly really difficult to film in Seville due to the exclusivity of the locale and the restrictions placed on the production (or am I thinking of a different location?).

Yeah. The way the water gardens came across in the show makes it look like they hired out a wedding venue for their shoot.

 

[Ganzlinger]

Why people don't want Cleganebowl? It would be the best fight and I really don't care who dies. Win/win situation.

 

[Byakuya769]

I'm not blaming her for anything. No, it isn't her fault that Ned died. I never said that. I made no argument about whose fault it was. However, it is a fact that she went to Cersei with Ned's plans. Disobeying her father because she wanted to stay in King's Landing living her fairy tale life. I believe this is after Ned is attacked by Jaimie and had his leg broken, yes? She ignores how things are because of how she wants them to be.

She was groomed to be a Lady of a great house? Does that not mean listening to your father? Does that not mean paying attention to the character of those around you? Joffrey was going to kill the butcher's boy and she lied for him. She's constantly doing stupid things because she doesn't accept reality. She wants her fairy tale. It's her character flaw, it's extremely annoying, and as of the recent chapter in TWoW Martin posted, extremely difficult for me to continue reading.

I agree with all of this except the bit about the TWoW. I'm not really convinced she wants he fairy tale there, she's just learning to play the game.

 

[Steelyuhas]

I'm okay with that. It wouldn't make sense for the Dorne characters to remain there forever - plus it was supposedly really difficult to film in Seville due to the exclusivity of the locale and the restrictions placed on the production (or am I thinking of a different location?).

Not certain this is correct, but I've seen that they only had a week total for all the scenes there, which would probably explain why the fight scene looked like a rehearsal.

 

[Brakke]

Why people don't want Cleganebowl? It would be the best fight and I really don't care who dies. Win/win situation.

the fact that you don't care who dies is the reason it shouldn't happen.

 

[Iksenpets]

I think it really only means no Water Gardens.

I don't expect much Dorne next season, since the books really have no POVs left in Dorne at this point, with Arianne, Hotah, and the Sand Snakes all having left. (Or I guess Hotah is still in Dorne, but not anywhere near Sunspear or the Water Gardens anymore.) That said, yeah, they could do more Dorne, just not in the Water Gardens. I have to think that they only went with such an exclusive location because they knew the plot only demanded it for one season. And really, even if that weren't the case, I think after how it turned out they would maybe rather just build sets and film around the fact that they don't have the full location.

With all that in mind though, I am kind of worried about Doran becoming another Mance, who ends up just being some big boss off screen until he's not anymore and he dies, since there's probably no way he's leaving.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

Not certain this is correct, but I've seen that they only had a week total for all the scenes there, which would probably explain why the fight scene looked like a rehearsal.

Ah, so that's what it was. Yeah, such a limited filming schedule can't be conducive to good film making.

 

[foxtrot3d]

the fact that you don't care who dies is the reason it shouldn't happen.

I care who dies, I want my Hound alive.

 

[Thaedolus]

It's dramatically vapid. The Hound hated the Mountain so that's a cool satisfying fight but the mountain and the hound are both dead so whatever that beef is settled. "Hey Sandor your brother is a headless hulking monster in thrall to Cersei wanna go bop him?" "So his brain and personality are gone and his body is shred and rebuilt and undead? Uhhh naw dude I'm good."

What could even motivate Sandor to return to King's Landing? The only person he cares about is Sansa I guess? But we already have an ugly Knight of Friendzone lusting after a young babe with Jorah, we don't need another.



Arcs can end without violence. The Hound was killed away from the capital and learned to set violence aside. The Mountain was killed at the capital and is now trapped in an eternity of violence.

What if The Hound found it in himself to forgive his brother and is appalled at the mockery that the undead Mountain is to his memory, and decides to do battle so he can rest at peace?

 

[cj_iwakura]

I hate Cleganebowl

I hope it never happens

You might have to jar my memory, cause I don't even remember it.

 

[Thaedolus]

You might have to jar my memory, cause I don't even remember it.

 

[Ganzlinger]

the fact that you don't care who dies is the reason it shouldn't happen.

It was a joke, man. I'm not a fan of the Hound, but it would be the best way to give the Mountain what he deserves (a slowly death).

 

[cj_iwakura]

Does this even happen in the books, or something that's being lead up to?

 

[Thaedolus]

Does this even happen in the books, or something that's being lead up to?

It's heavily implied that Robert Strong is the undead Gregor.

There's a fairly strong fan theory that a grave digger in AFFC is a healed and repentant Sandor.

The valonquar prophesy is from a Cersei chapter (and the prelude to this season on the show). It's also hard to imagine Tyrion somehow getting to kill Cersei at some point.

So...Cersei chooses Robert Strong as her champion in a trial by combat. The faith chooses Sandor Clegane. The younger brother kills the older, hence killing Cersei. But no, it hasn't happened yet.

I like it.

 

[adamsappel]

The valonquar prophesy is from a Cersei chapter (and the prelude to this season on the show). It's also hard to imagine Tyrion somehow getting to kill Cersei at some point.

Jaime is also Cersei's little brother.

 

[GentlemanCrow]

Jaime is also Cersei's little brother.

So many choice angles. Any would be awesome.

 

[Anoregon]

It's heavily implied that Robert Strong is the undead Gregor.

There's a fairly strong fan theory that a grave digger in AFFC is a healed and repentant Sandor.

The valonquar prophesy is from a Cersei chapter (and the prelude to this season on the show). It's also hard to imagine Tyrion somehow getting to kill Cersei at some point.

So...Cersei chooses Robert Strong as her champion in a trial by combat. The faith chooses Sandor Clegane. The younger brother kills the older, hence killing Cersei. But no, it hasn't happened yet.

I like it.

I guess it technically is a fan theory, but the way the grave digger is described, the fact that the specific things about him are described at all, seems pretty telling.

 

[bengraven]

Will the plans account for that Q1 2016 Winds release?

Definitely! I figure we could all use a re-read before the book possibly comes out!

AND it gives us something to do for the show downtime.

Some fun stuff in the video. Edd talking about how he can't swim was amusing. I wish they did more behind the scenes in-season, but I suppose most of that is reserved for the dvds.

Cool. I'll crosspost something in the book thread and we can spitball ideas over there.

I just checked and there are 344 chapters across the 5 books so you'd need more than that. Just say you started a couple of weeks after the season ended and wanted to be done by the end of March, that would be about 9 chapters a week.

Damn, it sounds like so much and will be, but people read fast. Especially if they love the books.

 

[Speevy]

Rory McCann isn't in this season, is he? Cersei's storyline has to end with the walk of shame, and Kevan wouldn't allow the trial by combat.

 

[Thaedolus]

Rory McCann isn't in this season, is he? Cersei's storyline has to end with the walk of shame, and Kevan wouldn't allow the trial by combat.

I don't think there's any way they fit a fight in this season. Her fate will be resolved in 6

 

[Steelyuhas]

Definitely! I figure we could all use a re-read before the book possibly comes out!

AND it gives us something to do for the show downtime.

Yeah it would be fun to discuss the chapters with everyone as we go.

Rory McCann isn't in this season, is he? Cersei's storyline has to end with the walk of shame, and Kevan wouldn't allow the trial by combat.

Yeah, D&D confirmed that Rory is not in Season 5, but unsurprisingly they refused to confirm his fate after the end of season 4.

 

[Brakke]

What if The Hound found it in himself to forgive his brother and is appalled at the mockery that the undead Mountain is to his memory, and decides to do battle so he can rest at peace?

That's the closest to working I've ever seen Cleganebowl. I might could roll with this. The whole POV thing is kind of a problem here. Sandor showing up becomes a deus ex machina.

This would be particularly difficult to storyboard in the show. Him exiting the stage bleeding alone and dying and then coming back on the stage as Glorious Warrior of The Faith is wildly out of left field. I might dig it anyway because I'm fond of the actor and the character so seeing him back at all would be cool, but then we're back on Cleganebowl being basically fanservice.

It was a joke, man. I'm not a fan of the Hound, but it would be the best way to give the Mountain what he deserves (a slowly death).

The Mountain already got a slow death...

 

[Lothar]

I hate Sansa because she betrayed her family. She is/was a spoiled little girl who wanted her fairy tale, and so she went to Cersei about Ned's plans.

This can't be a serious post, can it? She was 11 years old and had zero understanding of the situation. She went to Cersei just so Cersei would make her father let her stay.

 

[kirblar]

This can't be a serious post, can it? She was 11 years old and had zero understanding of the situation. She went to Cersei just so Cersei would make her father let her stay.

Back when S1 first aired there was a lot of discussion about how a subset of book fans reviled her for this.

 

[BobTheFork]

Arcs can end without violence. The Hound was killed away from the capital and learned to set violence aside. The Mountain was killed at the capital and is now trapped in an eternity of violence.

Well it doesn't need to end in violence, with a CleganeBowl. We aren't sure if the mountain had a head but maybe Sandor can talk him down. Maybe Sandor gets over his hatred when he sees what they did to him. Maybe Qybern get the wrath. Maybe he has to put his brother down as a monster but doesn't want to. Maybe it never happens but the set up is there and is a good story of two brothers. I would like to see a proper end to it.


I don't hate Sansa for it. It's not about trying to put blame on her. In fact I don't remember the show making it clear Sansa told the Queen. I would like to see her recognize her ignorance and love of fairy tales may have cost her father his life. Something to give her some determination to her goals.

 

[Speevy]

In the show universe, would killing Kevan disrupt the Lannister military?

 

[Ganzlinger]

The Mountain already got a slow death...

But he lives now so he deserves to die again.

 

[Crisco]

They really did kill it with the Night's Kings scene. GRRM got work to do.

 

[Steelyuhas]

In the show universe, would killing Kevan disrupt the Lannister military?

Nah, it'll just be Drizz Lannister's time shine.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

This can't be a serious post, can it? She was 11 years old and had zero understanding of the situation. She went to Cersei just so Cersei would make her father let her stay.

Couldn't agree more. She does exactly what you'd expect a preteen girl would do.

 

[Atraveller]

In the show universe, would killing Kevan disrupt the Lannister military?

If show Kevan came to KL and took over, strips Cersei of any power, then yes.

 

[bronson]

Jaime is also Cersei's little brother.

I love the idea of Tommen (Joffrey's "little brother") being the Valonqar -- he croaks, and comes back as a wight that chokes out Cersei.

 

[BobTheFork]

Nah, it'll just be Drizz Lannister's time shine.

Drizz, Drizz, rhymes with... shit I had something for this.

 

[m_shortpants]

I wonder if Jon will warg to Ghost or become a Wight.

"Only the cold" can be interpreted so many ways dammit.

 

[foxtrot3d]

I wonder if Jon will warg to Ghost or become a Wight.

"Only the cold" can be interpreted so many ways dammit.

His Wolf's name is "Ghost."
Varamyr Six Skins prologue showing the death of a warg.
Man-Wolf-Man vision by Melisandre.

Yeah, I think it's safe to bet he'll warg into Ghost.

 

[Massa]

His Wolf's name is "Ghost."
Varamyr Six Skins prologue showing the death of a warg.
Man-Wolf-Man vision by Melisandre.

Yeah, I think it's safe to bet he'll warg into Ghost.

But Kit harington is so good now.

 

[duckroll]

If show Kevan came to KL and took over, strips Cersei of any power, then yes.

Didn't they say that Kevan was already recalled to King's Landing and made Hand of the King?

 

[Atraveller]

Didn't they say that Kevan was already recalled to King's Landing and made Hand of the King?

In episode 8? I think I missed it. Did Qyburn say that?