PhoenixDark
Banned
Which is why I didn't include him. Two brothers: Bran and Rickon.
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 5 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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Which is why I didn't include him. Two brothers: Bran and Rickon.
In the books she talks about how much she's love to see Jon Snow again.
Probably not as close as Arya/Jon, but I never got the impression she hated Jon. Hell, I saw on reddit that Bran referred to Jon as "his bastard brother" more than Sansa did in the entire series.
Damerman
Member
damn, and she was only 29. I was always impressed with the VFX of the show. it's tragic to see some one who was clearly talented go so early.
But is it emotionally big for her? We don't even know if she likes them.
I'm saying, consistent with the logic of the world I'm sure she's fond of them. But it's weak emotional stakes for a viewer because we don't ourselves have any affection for their relationship. Even with Arya at least we had that one scene where she scores a bullseye and shows Bran up.
And from a character development standpoint, if Sansa pursues finding Bran / Rickon, it'll shut down her path to Wardeness. but also if she *doesn't* try to find them then she's heartless and grossly ambitious and *emphatically* not a Stark anymore -- given their propensity for die for the sake of their family -- and then we should despise her. Plus it'd be bad strategy since either of them could just show up with an army of Karstarks or Umbers or whatever and challenge her claim.
You get it. She'll definitely tell someone who will go on to do something about it. No way she takes any active role in doing it herself.
I'm saying, consistent with the logic of the world I'm sure she's fond of them. But it's weak emotional stakes for a viewer because we don't ourselves have any affection for their relationship. Even with Arya at least we had that one scene where she scores a bullseye and shows Bran up.
And from a character development standpoint, if Sansa pursues finding Bran / Rickon, it'll shut down her path to Wardeness. but also if she *doesn't* try to find them then she's heartless and grossly ambitious and *emphatically* not a Stark anymore -- given their propensity for die for the sake of their family -- and then we should despise her. Plus it'd be bad strategy since either of them could just show up with an army of Karstarks or Umbers or whatever and challenge her claim.
You get it. She'll definitely tell someone who will go on to do something about it. No way she takes any active role in doing it herself.
Red Arremer
Member
It changes everything for Sansa, and that is speaking politically. Bran and Rickon both come before Sansa as claimants for Winterfell. If both of them are alive (and the Boltons do in fact know that in the show), then her marriage to Ramsey has a lot less political weight, since Sansa is no longer the heir to Winterfell, and neither is a child between her and Ramsay, at least unless Bran and Rickon die before having an heir.
That's the reason why Jeyne Westerling's mother made sure she drank moon tea and whatnot, to ensure she wasn't carrying Robb Stark's child and heir.
That's the reason why Jeyne Westerling's mother made sure she drank moon tea and whatnot, to ensure she wasn't carrying Robb Stark's child and heir.
It's not like Sansa has 20 good men to go with her to find them. What would you expect her to do?
Soon enough she'll have one good woman and one well-endowed squire. That should be more than enough.
It also really throws a wrench into the Bolton's plans. The Bolton's aren't exactly forthcoming about the survival of Bran and Rickon. In the show they send one trusted agent to find them. I don't even remember what happens in the books. Rather than have the northern houses say "OK at least there's a female Stark in Winterfell" they could hold out for the "real" Lord of Winterfell.
True, but what will Davos do? Isn't that what he's doing in the books?
Ape Gone Insane
Member
There's comes a point where you can say "yeah, we get the contrast", I think that point has come after 5 seasons of watching Sansa move from one location to another, just so she can serve the same boring subplot as the torture plaything of someone or another. She does nothing to advance the plot. Anywhere. Or even develop her own character. Joffrey, Ramsay and Littlefinger's storylines would have pretty much been the same without her yet she somehow manages to occupy so much screen time.
And people complain about Dany.
Red Arremer
Member
In the books, the Boltons do not know for sure about Bran and Rickon, to our knowledge at least. Theon's squire, Wex Pyke, was following Osha and Rickon and he shared that information with the Manderlys.
We also know that Lady Dustin at the very least got wind of that knowledge, since she goes into the crypts in Winterfell and notices that swords are missing.
Sansa knowing they're alive doesn't throw a wrench in the Bolton plans. The Boltons already know the boys are alive and we even saw them learn that. Sansa knowing doesn't change anything for them since she's shown neither ability nor inclination to reach out to Northern Lords anyway. She doesn't have any ally who would trust her if she said they were alive.
Meanwhile Sansa being instrumental to the Bolton claim to the North is super poorly motivated. As far as we've seen or even heard, the political situation in the North is exactly the same with as it is without Sansa. It's not like the marriage led to some Northern host disbanding or dropping siege or abandoning some plot. We never even saw any non-Bolton Northerner learn that Sansa's stepped up as Lady of Winterfell. So we don't know if anybody said to themselves "ok at least there's a female Stark in Winterfell".
Maaaaan. I really liked the idea of Sansa going to Winterfell because I thought the Vale was so pointless but it really has been a trainwreck. That storyline is suffering from the narrow focus; for any of these threads to matter we need to see more of the North than just Winterfell and the camps of Stannis.
Sansa is allies with one of the most powerful men in Westeros.
Who, Pedro? No, I disagree, he is a moron.
I agree the story line hasn't been the best. I'm holding out for some payoff in the next 2 eps. Right now, she is in no position to use the info. Presumably she makes it out of Winterfell soon. Brienne can't just keep looking at Winterfell forever. At that point, she can utilize the info to rock the boat a little. Again this is hoping she starts to play the Game of Thrones.
The marriage was deemed necessary because Roose didn't see flaying Stark supporters as a valid long-term solution. The lord Ramsay flayed off-screen was upset that a Stark wasn't in Winterfell (and the whole Red Wedding thing..). I'm sure others felt similarly.
cartoon_soldier
Member
The show starts at the point where Sansa is smitten with the prince and marrying him. That is what occupies her at the start, then she heads to KL and then all shit goes to hell. That doesn't mean that she doesn't love her brothers and her family. In fact what she has gone through she is going to appreciate and love her family even more.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
but the others look legit?
I actually do think that they each bear at least some resemblance to their respective actor.
I thought Ramsay was the one who told Theon to fake the deaths of Bran and Rickon in the books?
Yeah, Ramsay 100% knows. It's not entirely clear if he ever told Roose explicitly, but Roose seems at the very least to have figured it out.
Red Arremer
Member
Oh yeah, now that you mention it, that's right.
biosnake20
Member
Peniscola aka CASTERLY ROCK?
bodyofanamerican
Member
Peniscola aka CASTERLY ROCK?
Whoaaaaaaaa.
Peniscola aka CASTERLY ROCK?
:/ Too much like King's Landing, sprawling out on a peninsula like that.
They gave some time with Marge going around giving lil orphans dollies and stuff. And The Hound robbing that nice poppa and his daughter. High Howland talks up good game about being a man of The People.
biosnake20
Member
Well CG can make it look quite different.
This could have been mentioned many times and I just skimmed past it. But I just rewatched Episode 8 and when the first White Walker appears and walks through the flames, it seems to have a strong "aura of cold" which seems to put out nearby flames. I thought it was an interesting touch.
Moff
Member
Peniscola aka CASTERLY ROCK?
oldtown
Regardless of the opinion on the character, Sophie Turner's performance in that scene is good enough to let us know she did care for them a great deal.
biosnake20
Member
I agree with this, Sansa lack of character/story develloppement is pretty boring.
Moff
Member
sansa immediately sided with joffrey on anything. I don't know if she liked anyone in her family very much? I don't think it's that uncommon at that age.
but after a few years of slaughtering her family, I think it's not hard to understand that she might be glad to hear that jon is doing well and that bran and rickon are not dead.
but after a few years of slaughtering her family, I think it's not hard to understand that she might be glad to hear that jon is doing well and that bran and rickon are not dead.
I'm not blaming her for anything. No, it isn't her fault that Ned died. I never said that. I made no argument about whose fault it was. However, it is a fact that she went to Cersei with Ned's plans. Disobeying her father because she wanted to stay in King's Landing living her fairy tale life. I believe this is after Ned is attacked by Jaimie and had his leg broken, yes? She ignores how things are because of how she wants them to be.
She was groomed to be a Lady of a great house? Does that not mean listening to your father? Does that not mean paying attention to the character of those around you? Joffrey was going to kill the butcher's boy and she lied for him. She's constantly doing stupid things because she doesn't accept reality. She wants her fairy tale. It's her character flaw, it's extremely annoying, and as of the recent chapter in TWoW Martin posted, extremely difficult for me to continue reading.
Liquidsnake
Banned
Word.
If fan theories about Jaime being the one to eventually kill Cersei are right, I could see events somehow being contrived to have that final showdown happen in Casterly Rock, once Cersei's been either sent home or forced to flee the capital. Or Tyrion could take the castle through the sewers as part of Dany's invasion.
In that world once a woman is betrothed, her husband outranks her father. If her father is plotting something against her husband, she's supposed to side with her husband. Ned makes that exact point to Arya. She obviously moves away from that ideology when she realizes what Joffrey is really like, but at the time she never thought it would come to her father's death, and she was doing exactly what the proper thing to do was.
She was being pressured to side with the king and the royal family. How do you expect a young girl to react to that pressure? She was essentially forced to choose between her own family, who were increasingly being seen as "enemies," or to do the "right" thing by siding with the royal family. She was in a completely fucked situation, and had to do things and make decisions a girl of her age simply wasn't equipped to do.
I expect a young girl who witnessed attempted murder to tell the truth. And if there is punishment after that, like losing a pet and having it murdered, not to blame the sister, since all she did was tell the truth. I expect her to observe the character of the person who caused this to happen and have some perspective on the circumstances.
I expect a young girl who has been raised as a lady whose world is obviously not the fairy tale she so ardently desires to analyze things based on reality.
Yeah, it's a fucked up situation because Cersei and Joffrey are/were evil cunts.
Isn't Casterly Rock on the western side of Westeros, though? Though I guess that would make for an extra sneaky invasion.
Yeah, it'd be weird. But maybe Tyrion convinces her that it's a softer target, due to his knowledge of its weaknesses. If he gets intel that Cersei is at the Rock and by KL, I could see him outright lying if that's what it took to convince Dany to land there first, so that he can get his revenge.
H.Cornerstone
Member
I am more inclined to think Cersei will die with the Gravedigger (Sandor) defeating Robert Strong (gregor) in the trial by combat.
But we'll see.
hipsterpants
Member
cersei, having gone mad from watching all her children die, is killed by jaime before she can destroy king's landing and kill all of the people living in it
it's like poetry
it's like poetry
I want Cleganebowl to happen so badly.
I think the Cleganebowl happens eventually, but Cersei's trial is too early. Sandor isn't ready yet, and I don't think he could be moved quickly enough to the capital even if he were.
Moff
Member
dany: we will besiege casterly rock, prepare the troops and feed the dragons
tyrion: we cannot do that, we need to inspire devotion in the people of westeros, give me one hilarious sidekick and we will impregnate that bitch
daario: why would you do that? you are a dwarf. besides, I have a whole fleet of ironborn at my disposal
tyrion: It has to be me, I know where the backdoor of the sewers is
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