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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 5 - Sundays on HBO

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L

LordCanti

Member
I read too much not expecting... did the entire episode leak or what? Damn.

Not that bothered by the spoilers as much as what I'm reading happens in the episode.
 
P

Paganmoon

Member
Hex said:
There is a no spoiler thread.
Just saying...
Click to expand...

Thread rules have always been clear regarding this:

Any content from books beyond A Dance with Dragons needs to be appropriately spoiler-tagged. Please use the tag TWOW or ADOS so everyone is on the same page. Also, please spoiler-tag any TV adaption news for upcoming episodes. Although everyone here has read the books, but not everyone wants that adaption spoiled.
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And we're stearing into spoilers outside of the books now, so this rule is important, more so than ever before I'd say.
 
O

Oldest Snake

Member
Moff said:
the more I think about it the more I think this is straight from the books
Click to expand...

But in the book Mel is at the wall with Shireen and Stannis is at Winterfell in the middle of a battle. He's not in any position to make this call. This might happen, but Stannis certainly can't have any say in it unless he's going to hightail it back to The Wall just so he can march back to Winterfell.

I don't see how it can play out the same way in the books.

IDK, wait and see I guess.
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
Zabka said:
Since when is Stannis a great military commander? He's only got as far as he did because of Melisandre's magic.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the entire reputation he had for being one of the best military commanders in Westeros that he got long before the time he met Melisandre is just conjecture, obviously.
 
L

Lonestar

I joined for Erin Brockovich discussion
Hmmm

So basically, it'll go like this: Stannis wins winter fell, end of the boltons, Sansa saved, brienne comes in stabby stabby, kills Stannis, and the story of the north is mostly over. Davos retains his true form of AA
 
L

Last Hearth

Member
He smashed the Greyjoy fleet. Given that the Ironborn's only strength is their naval power, that's pretty good.
He also held out against the Tyrells for over a year at Storm's End with a few hundred men.
 
Z

Zolo

Member
Moff said:
the more I think about it the more I think this is straight from the books
I don't think D&D came up on their own with the idea that melisandre dispells the snowstorm. that is exactly the kind of magic she would do. it's not throwing fireballs, it's something subtle like burning leeches, something that could be coincidence. and let's be honest, D&D do not have suble ideas like that.
lets forget the shadow baby for a minute
and that kind of wonder requires sacrifice, and honestly, despite all the hating, I actually think it's an interesting choice to confront stannis with. so save his daughter or to save his realm (and everyone in his army). and book stannis was not as close to shireen as show stannis.
I don't really think it's bad writing.
of course it will play out a bit differently, since shireen is in castle black in the books, but I still think that stannis will have to make that choice. we'll see, if this creates another backlash, maybe GRRM will comment on it, I certainly hope so and that it's more detailed than a simple "it's different"

I can somehow feel the reactions of some readers in here, but I honestly think a lot of it stems from being spoiled a twist they didn't know about and I wonder how they would feel about other twists in the books if they were shown in the show before.
Click to expand...

I dunno....it seems really dumb for book Stannis to do so when Shireen's more emphasized as his heir in the books; unlike in the show. Of course, now it makes more sense where they're taking Stannis considering how the show's never mentioned Shireen as his heir and always emphasize about how he'd do anything to get the irno throne.
 
N

NSESN

Member
Oldest Snake said:
But Mel is at the wall with Shireen and Stannis is at Winterfell in the middle of a battle in the books. He's not in any position to make this call. This might happen, but Stannis certainly can't have any say in it unless he's going to hightail it back to The Wall just so he can march back to Winterfell.
Click to expand...

yeah, the burning can be taken from books, but i'm certain the execution will be different in the books
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
Last Hearth said:
He smashed the Greyjoy fleet. Given that the Ironborn's only strength is their naval power, that's pretty good.
He also held out against the Tyrells for over a year at Storm's End with a few hundred men.
Click to expand...

And that's the only military operations we know of. I'm sure there's been plenty of other moments that had him prove his prowess as a commander.
 
Moff

Moff

Member
Oldest Snake said:
But in the book Mel is at the wall with Shireen and Stannis is at Winterfell in the middle of a battle. He's not in any position to make this call. This might happen, but Stannis certainly can't have any say in it unless he's going to hightail it back to The Wall just so he can march back to Winterfell.

I don't see how it can play out the same way in the books.

IDK, wait and see I guess.
Click to expand...

stannis will win the battle in the snowstorm of course, but he needs to clear the storm to besiege winterfell
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
-griffy- said:
Stannis burning Shireen wouldn't be coming out of nowhere. Not only has it been discussed this season already, but the foundations were laid as early as season 2.
Click to expand...

From a character perspective it does come out of nowhere. Stannis has shown no interest or temptation of burning Shireen. In fact on multiple occassions this season he has affirmed her position as his heir and beloved daughter. He had similar scenes last season too.

In S2 Melisandre tells him he will betray his family, sure I guess. Yet there has been no groundwork to show that. In contrast, his wife has become more and more willing to sacrifice her daughter, and has constantly apologized to Stannis for birthing him a girl (and each time Stannis brushes her off).

And once again this is putting shock before plotting. Stannis is an amazing battle commander...who leaves his supply line open for 20 men to burn it? In what universe does that make sense. It's a clear example of a writer having an end in mind and creating whatever means he thinks of to get there.
 
B

biosnake20

Member
Moff said:
the more I think about it the more I think this is straight from the books
I don't think D&D came up on their own with the idea that melisandre dispells the snowstorm. that is exactly the kind of magic she would do. it's not throwing fireballs, it's something subtle like burning leeches, something that could be coincidence. and let's be honest, D&D do not have suble ideas like that.
lets forget the shadow baby for a minute
and that kind of wonder requires sacrifice, and honestly, despite all the hating, I actually think it's an interesting choice to confront stannis with. so save his daughter or to save his realm (and everyone in his army). and book stannis was not as close to shireen as show stannis.
I don't really think it's bad writing.
of course it will play out a bit differently, since shireen is in castle black in the books, but I still think that stannis will have to make that choice. we'll see, if this creates another backlash, maybe GRRM will comment on it, I certainly hope so and that it's more detailed than a simple "it's different"

I can somehow feel the reactions of some readers in here, but I honestly think a lot of it stems from being spoiled a twist they didn't know about and I wonder how they would feel about other twists in the books if they were shown in the show before.
Click to expand...
This plus how cruel it is. The show and the books rarely shy away from terrible shit and now people are thinking this is going too far. I'm not sure if there is anything that is "too far" for GoT/ASOIAF.
 
Z

Zolo

Member
Lonestar said:
Hmmm

So basically, it'll go like this: Stannis wins winter fell, end of the boltons, Sansa saved, brienne comes in stabby stabby, kills Stannis, and the story of the north is mostly over. Davos retains his true form of AA
Click to expand...

Yep. Oh right. You forgot about the part where Sansa's pregnant and goes through an abortion as a modern-political parallel similar to the emphasis on the faith's treatment of gay people in King's Landing.
 
K

KINGofCRA5H

Member
-griffy- said:
Stannis burning Shireen wouldn't be coming out of nowhere. Not only has it been discussed this season already, but the foundations were laid as early as season 2.
Click to expand...

"you are my daughter"

as someone who's only read parts of AFFC, that was a powerful fucking scene
 
Emerson

Emerson

May contain jokes =>
Shuggananas said:
ok, even more stupid
that's a ridiculous cliffhanger, like everybody will know he'll get rez'd
Click to expand...

Unless they do some major foreshadowing prior, show watchers will not have any particular reason at all to suspect Jon would get resurrected.
 
H

Hex

Banned
It is crazy to me how people are flipping out and screaming and yelling over the sacrifice. Legit rage.
 
Corpsepyre

Corpsepyre

Banned
I came in here at the worst possible time. Was hoping for some hype posts, but little did I know the damn thing got leaked somehow. The worst part is seeing all the reactions here of people and the 'FUCK D&D' posts, which foretell something went wrong really badly.
 
C

crazyrabbits

Banned
Corpsepyre said:
I came in here at the worst possible time. Was hoping for some hype posts, but little did I know the damn thing got leaked somehow. The worst part is seeing all the reactions here of people and the 'FUCK D&D' posts, which foretell something went wrong really badly.
Click to expand...

Understatement of the week.
 
Z

Zabka

Member
Red Arremer said:
Yeah, the entire reputation he had for being one of the best military commanders in Westeros that he got long before the time he met Melisandre is just conjecture, obviously.
Click to expand...

Beating the Greyjoys with the wealth and power of the throne behind him doesn't make him a great commander. They had superior numbers and resources. The actual siege of Pyke wasn't even lead by Stannis.

Stannis' military plans always seem to come down to "Send in more men".
 
Moff

Moff

Member
PhoenixDark said:
From a character perspective it does come out of nowhere. Stannis has shown no interest or temptation of burning Shireen. In fact on multiple occassions this season he has affirmed her position as his heir and beloved daughter. He had similar scenes last season too.

In S2 Melisandre tells him he will betray his family, sure I guess. Yet there has been no groundwork to show that. In contrast, his wife has become more and more willing to sacrifice her daughter, and has constantly apologized to Stannis for birthing him a girl (and each time Stannis brushes her off).

And once again this is putting shock before plotting. Stannis is an amazing battle commander...who leaves his supply line open for 20 men to burn it? In what universe does that make sense. It's a clear example of a writer having an end in mind and creating whatever means he thinks of to get there.
Click to expand...

well, the snowstorm battle was likely cut because of budget reasons, and the boltons emphasized that this is their lands and they have an advantage, especially in the snow, that's good enough for me to give them an advantage over a seasoned commander.
besides, apparently
we don't see that in the show at all, so we won't know what kind of tactic ramsey used.
 
L

Lonestar

I joined for Erin Brockovich discussion
Zolo said:
Yep. Oh right. You forgot about the part where Sansa's pregnant and goes through an abortion as a modern-political parallel similar to the emphasis on the faith's treatment of gay people in King's Landing.
Click to expand...

Sanaa's eventual death from childbirth, I was holding off til next season. Child will end up being the true Nights King, and being south of the wall, means immediate doom for Westeros. Series finale, e'erbody ded.
 
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
Zabka said:
Beating the Greyjoys with the wealth and power of the throne behind him doesn't make him a great commander. They had superior numbers and resources. The actual siege of Pyke wasn't even lead by Stannis.

Stannis' military plans always seem to come down to "Send in more men".
Click to expand...

Apparently not sending more men to safeguard his fucking supplies
 
Emerson

Emerson

May contain jokes =>
rest of season discussion

Man the amount of rage after this episode is gonna be ungodly. Between Sansa's rape, Shireen's burning, and Jon's assassination, I genuinely think they're pushing it too far. They're quite possibly gonna lost a not-insubstantial amount of viewers out of all this.
 
B

biosnake20

Member
Emerson said:
rest of season discussion

Man the amount of rage after this episode is gonna be ungodly. Between Sansa's rape, Shireen's burning, and Jon's assassination, I genuinely think they're pushing it too far. They're quite possibly gonna lost a not-insubstantial amount of viewers out of all this.
Click to expand...

Yeah it's gonna be really crazy. Youtube will be flooded with reaction videos, from nonbook and book readers.
 
P

PfantzyPantz

Member
I was done with the show after season 4, but I like coming in here and reading the reactions to see if maybe DnD stepped it back up, or at the very least to see how dumb the changes are.

This is just awful. I'd type more angrily but I'm just sad at this point, the show could have been amazing, but now it's a joke.
 
T

TheOctodad

Member
Is this what the book readers felt like when they got to watch show watcher reaction vids to the red wedding?

I seriously feel like this isn't much different... I know a lot of people who said they chucked the book when that happened and took a break. I don't get the visceral reactions that are taking place here. If you thought this story had a happy ending...
 
Corpsepyre

Corpsepyre

Banned
PfantzyPantz said:
I was done with the show after season 4, but I like coming in here and reading the reactions to see if maybe DnD stepped it back up, or at the very least to see how dumb the changes are.

This is just awful. I'd type more angrily but I'm just sad at this point, the show could have been amazing, but now it's a joke.
Click to expand...

Jumping the gun just a little bit here, mate. Season 4 was excellent in several ways, and there have been some pretty good episodes this season as well. Last episode was one of the best GoT episodes yet. Watch and then critique.
 
K

Kalnos

Banned
PfantzyPantz said:
I was done with the show after season 4, but I like coming in here and reading the reactions to see if maybe DnD stepped it back up, or at the very least to see how dumb the changes are.

This is just awful. I'd type more angrily but I'm just sad at this point, the show could have been amazing, but now it's a joke.
Click to expand...

So you like coming in here to help stir up shit. Fuck off, cunt.
 
T

TestOfTide

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
From a character perspective it does come out of nowhere. Stannis has shown no interest or temptation of burning Shireen. In fact on multiple occassions this season he has affirmed her position as his heir and beloved daughter. He had similar scenes last season too.

In S2 Melisandre tells him he will betray his family, sure I guess. Yet there has been no groundwork to show that. In contrast, his wife has become more and more willing to sacrifice her daughter, and has constantly apologized to Stannis for birthing him a girl (and each time Stannis brushes her off).

And once again this is putting shock before plotting. Stannis is an amazing battle commander...who leaves his supply line open for 20 men to burn it? In what universe does that make sense. It's a clear example of a writer having an end in mind and creating whatever means he thinks of to get there.
Click to expand...

This. all they needed was at least
a scene showing stannis decide to use men to keep other men from running off instead of guarding supplies and it would have at least made sense to be caught by surprise. The whole character switch with stannis and his wife is irredeemable.
 
O

Oldest Snake

Member
Corpsepyre said:
Jumping the gun just a little bit here, mate. Season 4 was excellent in several ways, and there have been some pretty good episodes this season as well. Last episode was one of the best GoT episodes yet. Watch and then critique.
Click to expand...

Debatable. If you're watching for an adaptation of ASOIAF then a big fight between action hero Jon Snow and and a big skeleton army might not impress you all that much.
 
eot

eot

Banned
Moff said:
the more I think about it the more I think this is straight from the books
I don't think D&D came up on their own with the idea that melisandre dispells the snowstorm. that is exactly the kind of magic she would do. it's not throwing fireballs, it's something subtle like burning leeches, something that could be coincidence. and let's be honest, D&D do not have suble ideas like that.
lets forget the shadow baby for a minute
and that kind of wonder requires sacrifice, and honestly, despite all the hating, I actually think it's an interesting choice to confront stannis with. so save his daughter or to save his realm (and everyone in his army). and book stannis was not as close to shireen as show stannis.
I don't really think it's bad writing.
of course it will play out a bit differently, since shireen is in castle black in the books, but I still think that stannis will have to make that choice. we'll see, if this creates another backlash, maybe GRRM will comment on it, I certainly hope so and that it's more detailed than a simple "it's different"

I can somehow feel the reactions of some readers in here, but I honestly think a lot of it stems from being spoiled a twist they didn't know about and I wonder how they would feel about other twists in the books if they were shown in the show before.
Click to expand...

Unless Stannis gets trapped in another snowstorm I don't see how this is taken from the books. Also, I might be misremembering but in the books there's a battle about to happen. There's a force marching on them from Winterfell and Stannis' side has been digging holes in the frozen lake and stuff.
 
Corpsepyre

Corpsepyre

Banned
Oldest Snake said:
Debatable. If you're watching for an adaptation of ASOIAF then a big fight between action hero Jon Snow and and a big skeleton army might not impress you all that much.
Click to expand...

If you're hoping for a direct adaptation of books 4 and 5, then we'd have a season with a whole lot of nothin'. Was understood that there would be huge changes the moment book 4 ended for me.

Also, there's not much in the last two books that would impress eitherway.
 
Moff

Moff

Member
eot said:
Unless Stannis gets trapped in another snowstorm I don't see how this is taken from the books. Also, I might be misremembering but in the books there's a battle about to happen. There's a force marching on them from Winterfell and Stannis' side has been digging holes in the frozen lake and stuff.
Click to expand...

we do not know the outcome of the battle in the books, that is true.
but we do know from the e10 preview
that stannis will besiege winterfell, I do not expect them to stray that far away from the books, stannis will win that battle.
but the snowstorm in the books has not passed has it?
 
Z

Zolo

Member
eot said:
Unless Stannis gets trapped in another snowstorm I don't see how this is taken from the books. Also, I might be misremembering but in the books there's a battle about to happen. There's a force marching on them from Winterfell and Stannis' side has been digging holes in the frozen lake and stuff.
Click to expand...

I remember looking forward to seeing the latter scene's consequences in the show too.:(
 
F

Fuzzy

I would bang a hot farmer!
I can't wait until they change the line we're expecting in episode 10 to something similar just for the sake of change. :p
 
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