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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 5 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfLScJVXBHQ
Sounds like the discussion was during one of their big meetings with George about the future of the series/books.
in the behind the scenes video, D says when George told them what Stannis does to Shireen they were shocked because of how awful it is but it totally makes sense from a story perspective everything comes together (no it fucking doesn't D & GRRM you're all hacks, shut the fuck up. If this shit is in the books stop writing George.)
The execution was pretty bad to be sure. The way they turned the odds against Stannis with Ramsay's 20 was ridiculous, and they didn't give it enough time to drive home the desperation of his situation.
a secret-boss
Banned
Stannis wants to become badly this en series and one must offer a great sacrifice.
The burning is good point of no return
The burning is good point of no return
PhoenixDark
Banned
Going to need to hear Martin's actual comment. The video makes it sound like Martin revealed this as a book plot, which is quite different from Martin suggesting it as a plot for the show. It doesn't make sense to happen in the book. Stannis goes back to the Wall and burns Shireen? How? Why?
I have a feeling Martin told them Shireen is burned and they added Stannis into the picture. OR Martin suggested Stannis burn Shireen in the show.
I have a feeling Martin told them Shireen is burned and they added Stannis into the picture. OR Martin suggested Stannis burn Shireen in the show.
Well I didn't expect that. I suppose that they set up that earlier touching scene in the season with Stannis and Shireen to show how fanatical Stannis is to his religion and his aim to become the King. Nothing or none will stand in his way.
Anyway it doesn't look like that Jamie got any character progression this season. It looks like that he still loves and need Cersei. But let’s see if we got anymore Dorne story next week. At least it sets up Trystane to be on the small council next season. Loved the little interaction between Jamie and his daughter about her attire though.
I found the rest of the episode to be fine. The Wall scenes were interesting and I get why they handled Trant scene the way they did.
Anyway it doesn't look like that Jamie got any character progression this season. It looks like that he still loves and need Cersei. But let’s see if we got anymore Dorne story next week. At least it sets up Trystane to be on the small council next season. Loved the little interaction between Jamie and his daughter about her attire though.
I found the rest of the episode to be fine. The Wall scenes were interesting and I get why they handled Trant scene the way they did.
Chiggs
Gold Member
This. I'm starting to understand how Star Wars fans feel about Lucas.
PfantzyPantz
Member
Well, they said "When George first told us about this...", kinda makes me feel like he told them about Shireen being burned, not necessarily that Stannis is the one who does it.
Maybe I just want to still believe in the Mannis.
Maybe I just want to still believe in the Mannis.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
I think that's my favourite part of the shit writing. The genius battle commander who's greatest feat was winning a battle by outlasting a much larger army with far fewer resources apparently doesn't know the value of supplies.
MisterShine
Member
It makes perfect sense. He had his ambition on the one hand, and love in the other. He, like many many many many many many other rulers (in real life and in ASOIAF) at the end of the day he chose ambition. This isn't the first family member he has killed to remove an obstacle.
Stannis was already desperate in the last few episodes when he was snowed in, horses were dying, army deserting him and food running out. Ramsay's attack only made it much worse. I thought they did enough to show how desperate his situation was.
m_shortpants
Member
Exactly. Shireen may very well be burned in the books, but if someone does it, it owuld be Mel and Selyse, at the wall, without Stannis.
Ganzlinger
Member
How in the hell Stannis would burn Shireen in the books? It would have to happen after the Winterfell battle. So he would be defeated and he would escape alive? That sounds unlikely.
petethepanda
Member
God damn, they should have saved a few bucks for Dany riding away. That was like early-HP-movie Quiddich.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I dunno why everyone is surprised at Stannis' decision. I mean, his freaking intro to the show is him burning like, 10 people for not believing in him. Guys been off the rocker since he's been fucking demon spawn into melisandre.
He already survived his failure once after being burned by Wildfire. He's that zit that won't pop.
He already survived his failure once after being burned by Wildfire. He's that zit that won't pop.
In the books, it would make no sense. In the show, you could maybe squint for it to make sense, but too bad the scenes Stannis had with his daughter expressed actual compassion and love for her (unlike Renly or Gendry), and that his one scene with Melisandre is how it's never going to happen. This is just shitty writing: a good twist makes sense based on scenes shown, a bad twist is when a show tries its hardest to make you think the opposite is true about a character, only for them to completely change their mind at the drop of a dime.
And the reason it happens is because some miraculous way 20 men got to fuck up Stannis camp.
Everything about this shit is absurd.
hipsterpants
Member
Wow, that was an awful episode. Not like rage inducingly awful, but "I can't take anything in this show seriously anymore" awful. Looking beyond the Stannis stuff:
- The wall was fine, but then Olly's stare of death happened. Also nobody mentions the fucking gigantic army of zombies that attacked them. Sam needs to gtfo soon. I am still looking forward to Jon's death next episode, should be awesome.
- "Incest is okay." I have no idea where they are going with this anymore. Maybe Trystane is a secret agent sent to kill Tommen and allow Myrcella to ascend. Is the Martell/Targaryen stuff going to be cut completely? Or is Doran going to scheme harder next season?
- That was the first botched Arya scene in the entire series so far. Impressive. I don't even have to explain why either. Arya should be doing fuckawesome assassin stuff right now, not being the worst spy of all time. I guess getting revenge on an evil (pedophile) dude is more important than seeing her become awesome?
- The pit was honestly just funny. It looked pretty bad compared to Hardhome a week ago. I don't think the show ever bothered to explain how the marriage calmed the city down either, so the fact that Dany had like 4 guards was ridiculous. Jorah/Daario/Tyrion adventures in Meereen should be amazing though. I'm guessing Dany runs into the Dothraki in the finale.
- Oh yeah Ramsay and his 20 good men has to be the contrived shit ever. Even the scene with the fires starting was awful. 0/10 come up with a better reason for Stannis to burn Shireen.
So yeah, this episode was definitely entertaining. But I can't take any of this seriously anymore. It's just too dumb lol
- The wall was fine, but then Olly's stare of death happened. Also nobody mentions the fucking gigantic army of zombies that attacked them. Sam needs to gtfo soon. I am still looking forward to Jon's death next episode, should be awesome.
- "Incest is okay." I have no idea where they are going with this anymore. Maybe Trystane is a secret agent sent to kill Tommen and allow Myrcella to ascend. Is the Martell/Targaryen stuff going to be cut completely? Or is Doran going to scheme harder next season?
- That was the first botched Arya scene in the entire series so far. Impressive. I don't even have to explain why either. Arya should be doing fuckawesome assassin stuff right now, not being the worst spy of all time. I guess getting revenge on an evil (pedophile) dude is more important than seeing her become awesome?
- The pit was honestly just funny. It looked pretty bad compared to Hardhome a week ago. I don't think the show ever bothered to explain how the marriage calmed the city down either, so the fact that Dany had like 4 guards was ridiculous. Jorah/Daario/Tyrion adventures in Meereen should be amazing though. I'm guessing Dany runs into the Dothraki in the finale.
- Oh yeah Ramsay and his 20 good men has to be the contrived shit ever. Even the scene with the fires starting was awful. 0/10 come up with a better reason for Stannis to burn Shireen.
So yeah, this episode was definitely entertaining. But I can't take any of this seriously anymore. It's just too dumb lol
Beelzebufo
Banned
It's the most in-character thing Stannis (or anyone for that matter) has done all season, so that's not surprising. Stannis loves his kid, but his iron will combined with the fact that it's his own guilt and family vs ALL OF HUMANITY (Stannis thinks he's AA) makes killing Shireen the clear choice. As much as it's killing him, Stannis is making the good and practical leadership decisions that someone like Jon doesn't (which leads to his death).
Also, these director commentary things at the end are so great. It's always a laugh riot. "Drogon can sense when his mother's in danger". You serious? It's a giant lizard. It can't sense shit.
That's why he felt so bad about it! But it's a decision he had to make, because otherwise literally everyone dies (including Shireen yeah?)
PsychoSoldier
Banned
I think most people can understand why he made this decision, but I think it was a mistake to have those little tender moments between him and Shireen because it seems like they were only there to make this feel worse.
If he had been cold and hard the entire time it would have felt more true to his character.
If he had been cold and hard the entire time it would have felt more true to his character.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
In the book he keeps his daughter locked up in a tower with books. And his crazy wife still keeps the fetuses of her dead children. Then you have another religious 'burn everything' nutter whispering to his ear. Stannis is pretty much not all there, if you get my drift.
StriKeVillain
Banned
My girlfriend made that exact same comment to me.
m_shortpants
Member
Stannis is supposed to be just though. He was okay with Renly dying because he broke the law of secession and became a usurper.
Shireen did nothing wrong. I just can't see him giving the command.
Shireen did nothing wrong. I just can't see him giving the command.
BoogerFart
Banned
fellas, let's talk about that hot hooker instead.
that's something littlefinger would do
Thaedolus
Member
Holy shit I feel like I'm watching a different show from you or something
You fucking specist! Reptiles have feelings too!!!
I don't like either but stannis has be fuck up from the beginning
Is kinda amusing how all are surprised by this
Beelzebufo
Banned
lol I'm sure. Those ones that burned Quentyn must have just been dickin' around then lol. They also have like spider senses I guess?
Guys Stannis already killed his brother at the drop of a hat because he thought he had to. Obviously he loves his daughter a whole lot more ("Forgive me") but he's not gonna put his own feelings ahead over his job to save the entire continent. He's still the Mannis, just being the Mannis is tough sometimes. Nobody does it better though, just ask Jon's rotting corpse.
Going to need a memory refreshing GIF
Ros8105
Member
She was a bit young mate
Burned who? I don't understand. What are you talking about?
Ganzlinger
Member
No. The Wall is the most consistent arc.
Eighty Deuce
Banned
Greyworm got his mysa taken away by the cock merchant tyrion. People are overlooking the biggest thing to happen this episode!
schlongdog
Banned
GRRM strikes again Lol
You know, ignoring all the Stannis stuff, that scene was fucking brutal. Watching a child get burned alive while she screams for mercy, her mother trying to help but unable to do anything, just a bit much. I've been watching HBO for years and that was the first time a scene really got to me. Just some sick shit.
MisterShine
Member
I agree in the books it makes far less sense, Stannis seems to get stronger with adversity in the books but he has been shown consistently weaker in the show as things are get worse for him. When it looks like he is about to lose to Renly, he has him killed. After being beaten at King's Landing, he is going to murder an innocent boy (well, teenager in the show). Now he needs to take Winterfell from a well-stocked and prepared army, and he needs to do it now. All of his weakness has led him here, and this decision is definitely an evil one, but I feel it is also in keeping with his general decline as a character, in spite of his scenes with Shireen this season. It's just to show how far he has fallen, and not all at once.
Beelzebufo
Banned
I'd have to disagree lol
When Quentyn tries to yell at them and they roast him! In the books. Maybe the show dragons are smart and have spider senses while the book dragons aren't stupid haha.
Yeah. A hero tries to save his sister and everyone else who isn't evil, fucks up humanity's last chance against the Others, and gets killed because everyone around him realizes that he's fucking up humanity's last chance against the others. Jon's definitely a hero.
Meanwhile, Stannis is doing whatever he can to save the most lives, or at least so he thinks.
It's really not that hard to comprehend. And whatever GRMM said, I can't believe this scene is in the book as-is, because it makes zero sense.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfLScJVXBHQ&feature=youtu.be&t=1m33s
Interesting though it doesn't sound Like
Stannis will do it in the books at least.
So Shireen huh
Sounds like R'hllor could do with another sacrifice
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