schlongdog
Banned
Incredible how much people are rooting for Reek to get redemption, you know, the guy that burned two random boys and strung them up on the castle he was brought up in.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 5 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
- Start date
- Status
Ganzlinger
Member
10/10
TestOfTide
Banned
I'm pretty sure the pedophile angle is more so there so that arya can seduce him like she does in the Mercy chapter.
I guess I wont be seeing so much of those stannis gifs anymore, good.
How soon people forget.
If I'm too root for anyone it would be Jon, Daney and Arya.
How soon people forget.
If I'm too root for anyone it would be Jon, Daney and Arya.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Ugh, i know this is a reference, but i can't remember from where.
Daznak's Pit was great, really liked that scene. Everything else this episode was shit-tier.
lol at the 'sacrifice' being GRRM's idea, unless explicitly stated I won't believe it. Even then I'll think of the differing circumstances, with one being done at Stannis behest and the other behind his back
lol at the 'sacrifice' being GRRM's idea, unless explicitly stated I won't believe it. Even then I'll think of the differing circumstances, with one being done at Stannis behest and the other behind his back
I can't imagine the Night's Watch standing idly by while Melisandre burns a child. She'd have to be taken away at some point.
You are going to tell the author of the books how to write his characters and what their motives are. You know more about what would make sense and what these characters are thinking than the person who created these characters. What we can look at (without pretending like we know how these characters would act) is does it make thematic sense for Stannis to burn Shireen alive and does it fit his character.
Thematically speaking, the first time we see Stannis in the books, he's burning people alive. He kills his brother to further his ambition, he kills his relatives to further his ambition. Why is it such a leap to think he would continue down this path?
As for the question of it fitting his character; I think the show did mess up on one key element, Stannis being more likable and easier to empathize with. Stannis' touching scene with Shireen is a good one to look at. There was no need for that. It was a show invention and it made Stannis more sympathetic. There was a love-affair with show-Stannis that was even more pronounced than the following he got from book readers. Partially because of these touching moments that were interspersed. Book Stannis was much colder and I could totally see him doing this to Shireen to further his ambitions. Show Stannis muddied the waters and made him much more likable. It was only out of character insofar as it relates to the show version of Stannis, imo.
Ganzlinger
Member
That was Ramsay (in the books).
Beelzebufo
Banned
Beginning of Skyrim.
It has been explicitly stated. Many times in this thread.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Ganzlinger
Member
General Tullius talking to Ulfric Stormcloak at the beginning of Skyrim.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Ganzlinger
Member
We need visual proof.
Beelzebufo
Banned
Pretty sure the idea wasn't:
"In the books, Stannis goes to kill Shireen by burning her"
It's:
"Shireen totally gets burned in the books, and Stannis would totally burn her if he had to make the decision he made in the show, because he's never one to let his feelings get in the way of justice."
I'm sure we'll find out that Mel (or maybe even a resurrected Jon? Once he comes back to life his first two thoughts are gonna be 1. Thank you Mel for saving me and 2. Mel has been right all along about everything) burns Shireen in tWoW.
Yeah that was dumb. Like they all had stealth suits and just freely walked into camp, burnt it down, then walked away no problem.
It definitely wins the consistently shit award.
Cabbagehead
Member
wtf how?
BreezyLimbo
Banned
hey that younger sand spider chick is pretty cute
Yes. If you think this is untrue, you also probably don't understand why the whole field of criticism exists. Sometimes writers are really good and understand what's going on, and sometimes they lose the music. It's not some foreign event. It happens all the time, and people end up roundly criticizing these writers (or directors or whatever) and for good reason. If GRRM decided tomorrow to write into the books that Jon wants to fuck Arya and he decides to make a journey across the sea when he is revived to do just that, it'd be fucked and everyone would say it's fucked. Just because GRRM is the writer does not mean he always makes a good decision.
He is haunted by memories of Renly and his peach, and says he'll go to his grave dreaming of it. In the books he specifically mentions he wants Shireen on the throne if he dies. There are endless passages within the book that would suggest that's a line he would not cross.
If you are going to carry a character to that extreme, you can't just drop that shit on the table. You have to meaningfully foreshadow it. Burning people alive is not the same as burning your own daughter while you watch. Burning Gendry who he has no connection to is not the same as burning your own daughter while you watch. Casting Shadow magic to dispose of Renly, who he believes is actively trying to usurp the throne, is not the same as burning a complete innocent who is his next in line.
Purple Cheeto
Member
GURM asking for more torture and pain? You don't say!
Beelzebufo
Banned
I wonder if (GoT game spoilers)(Tinfoil theory)
But again, the alternative is that everyone in the entire word dies. This was literally his only option as far as he was concerned, and even then he waited until it was clearly his only option. A King puts his people before himself, and Stannis continues to embody that mantra better than anyone else in ASoIaF. He's clearly devastated though, as he should be because it's horrible, but in this case necessary and justified.
Davos is gonna be piiiiiissed though.
Killing Shireen will awaken an ice dragon, since it's sort of vaguely hinted at in various prophecies or whatever. Then we can see an Ice Dragon appear in the last episode of the Telltale game (if it hasn't appeared already, I haven't played the most recent chapter). Synergy!
But again, the alternative is that everyone in the entire word dies. This was literally his only option as far as he was concerned, and even then he waited until it was clearly his only option. A King puts his people before himself, and Stannis continues to embody that mantra better than anyone else in ASoIaF. He's clearly devastated though, as he should be because it's horrible, but in this case necessary and justified.
Davos is gonna be piiiiiissed though.
Askherserenity
Member
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Well I mean
she was reading that book. foreshadowing and all that, the littlest things could lead up to the biggest things. (After all Stannis was like 'YO DAUGHTER EVERYTHING FOR YOU' but it was foreshadowing to his heel turn hypocrisy. )
schlongdog
Banned
You realise the books aren't finished right? Probably should wait and see what happens before arrogantly proclaiming that you know best.
The circumstances surrounding her burning better be amazing. If Stannis is mindfucked to the point that he's burning Shireen, it better be something more substantial than "Well Ramsay and a ragtag group of ninjas burned my supplies. I better burn my daughter"
Thanks.
That was a hell of a punch though.
Beelzebufo
Banned
They're going to a magical place beyond the wall that supposedly is full of magic. Chapter 6 is called "The Ice Dragon"
Good point. Though maybe she'll do it in secret as i'm sure the night watch might become a tad to preoccupied over the Jon stabbing incident to keep an eye on her. I'm really curious now to read how it goes down in the book and why.
There's nothing arrogant about it. Unless there is some massive, mindblowing change in Stannis character, which would need a lot of page time to establish in the next book, then it's fucked. The show certainly did not do any job establishing a plot that convincingly let it happen, and this was GRRM's idea supposedly. I'm supposed to feel any confidence that he's going to get it right in the books if he goes down that road?
Sure it can happen, and if he does a decent job of it I'll say so. But there's nothing arrogant about it. Unless there is some massive ground shift in the character in the next book, it's all wrong.
Ramsay and his hounds are going to conquer Westeros by next season.
Beelzebufo
Banned
Er... what did you think Stannis's character was before? Haha not to be rude... but this makes so much sense when he's forced into that corner. It's just it's so horrible that you have to have all the self control and sense of duty in the world to actually do it, and that's what makes him (and always had made him) Stannis Motherfucking Baratheon.
It's completely baffling to me that people were claiming that the schlock zombie fight with Ice Ganondorf last week was a great change from the books, but are now getting mad at the only legitimate character moment we've seen all season haha.
I haven't been broken like that by a show since American Beauty.
I see this thread is predictably at the point where if something horrible happens that hasn't happened in the books yet, it's the work of those awful hacks D&D. Yet if the same thing had already taken place in the books, it would be another example of the twisted genius of GRRM.
Here's how I think it'll go down in the books: There's chaos at the wall after FTW and the pink letter. Jon is stabbed and Stannis is presumed dead. In a last ditch effort, Melisandre burns Shireen in order to revive the chosen one of R'hllor. Instead of reviving Stannis, Jon is revived and Melisandre burns Bowen Marsh and the other mutineers for him,
Meanwhile, Stannis takes Winterfell but is betrayed by Manderly and the other northern lords. He flees back to the wall and kills Melisandre when he learns what happened to Shireen. With his army and family destroyed, as well as his chances at the Iron Throne, Stannis heads further north to the others.
Or he just dies at some point.
Meanwhile, Stannis takes Winterfell but is betrayed by Manderly and the other northern lords. He flees back to the wall and kills Melisandre when he learns what happened to Shireen. With his army and family destroyed, as well as his chances at the Iron Throne, Stannis heads further north to the others.
Or he just dies at some point.
Shireen's getting burned in the books but Stannis should be 100% against it, not the one to make it happen.
- Status