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[Amir0x]

Er... what did you think Stannis's character was before? Haha not to be rude... but this makes so much sense when he's forced into that corner. It's just it's so horrible that you have to have all the self control and sense of duty in the world to actually do it, and that's what makes him (and always had made him) Stannis Motherfucking Baratheon.

I've already discussed the many reasons why the Stannis of the books makes no sense going down this road. It makes no sense as written. It's possible GRRM can suddenly write that change in character into the next book with enough time to make that shit make sense, but it's hard to imagine how.

Consider on top of all the groundwork the book lays down to let us know he'd never do that to Shireen, he doesn't even NEED her in the books. He has access to other people with Kings blood. Tell me, exactly why would he burn his own next in line when he has Theon?

 

[BreezyLimbo]

There's nothing arrogant about it. Unless there is some massive, mindblowing change in Stannis character, which would need a lot of page time to establish in the next book, then it's fucked. The show certainly did not do any job establishing a plot that convincingly let it happen, and this was GRRM's idea supposedly. I'm supposed to feel any confidence that he's going to get it right in the books if he goes down that road?

Sure it can happen, and if he does a decent job of it I'll say so. But there's nothing arrogant about it. Unless there is some massive ground shift in the character in the next book, it's all wrong.

Again

We're talking about the same Stannis

The same Stannis who burnt his clansmen to empower his sword
The same Stannis who locked his daughter away with books because of her looks(And only started showing her after Melisandre convinced him)
The same Stannis who, despite his straight character, cheated on his wife and fucked melisandre to create a demon to kill his baby brother
The same Stannis who doesn't believe in punishment, only in burning those who does what he thinks are bad things

This very same Stannis wouldnt' burn his daughter if he thought it would get him the throne? This very same Stannis who thinks he's the foretold warrior of light chosen? The very same who's already committed filial murder?

Stannis has been off his rocker for a long time now.

Consider on top of all the groundwork the book lays down to let us know he'd never do that to Shireen, he doesn't even NEED her in the books. He has access to other people with Kings blood. Tell me, exactly why would he burn his own next in line when he has Theon?

You're right, he doesn't need her. She's baggage to him, so him killing her ot advance himself...isn't that farfetched. And Theon doesn't have kings blood as ascribed by Melisandre, after all their 'claim' to that type of kingship was revoked long before after losing. If anything, the Ironborn are pretenders to the throne, not of real kingsblood.

(In fact, Stannish showed more love to Shireen in the show then in the book.)

 

[hipsterpants]

On the bright side that dumb "tries to resurrect Stannis but gets Jon instead" theory should be gone now. I hope.

 

[Lothar]

I see this thread is predictably at the point where if something horrible happens that hasn't happened in the books yet, it's the work of those awful hacks D&D. Yet if the same thing had already taken place in the books, it would be another example of the twisted genius of GRRM.

It probably would be written better and more believable than that. Stannis struggled more with the choice to burn Gendry and Edric Storm. Much much more.

 

[golem]

I see this thread is predictably at the point where if something horrible happens that hasn't happened in the books yet, it's the work of those awful hacks D&D. Yet if the same thing had already taken place in the books, it would be another example of the twisted genius of GRRM.

Who's writing the fan fiction now? Oh its the people in this thread

 

[Jarmel]

Obviously the Sons of the Harpy got training from Ramsey.

I mean how else do you explain some old ex-slave masters being master fighters.

 

[mantidor]

Ramsay and his hounds are going to conquer Westeros by next season.

He could probably stop the Night's King and his wight army with his 20 good men.

While being shirtless.

 

[Phrozenflame500]

Now that I've cooled a bit.

I think the issue for most book readers will be that show Stannis and book Stannis are fundamentally different characters at the moment. If the burning does happen in the book as D&D claim, it will probably be either without Stannis' consent or alternatively something significant will happen to change Stannis' character.

Having this really massive change seemed really jarring since the nature of Stannis' predicament wasn't really well established (and the Bolton stuff was kinda stupid) and we didn't get a lot of time with Stannis to see how he wrestled with this.

Anyways, even without *that scene* this episode didn't really live up to the hype. I sort of feel like this and Ep 8 should have switched places. Hopefully the next one ends this season on a high note.

 

[Lautaro]

Oh man, I was Ok with GRRM becoming Robert Jordan... if he somehow becomes George Lucas too then I will feel very conflicted.

I still believe the situation in the books will be very different if its supposed to make any sense.

 

[XAL]

Absolutely cackled when Benioff said "When George first told us about this" on the inside the episode. Makes all the salt even funnier

It's possible that the Shireen angle was one of several ideas George had in his rough outline, doesn't necessarily mean that George will stick with it when he writes the books. After all, Shireen isn't even with Stannis in the books when he's at Winterfell.

 

[Cellbomber]

For all we know Shireen doesn't die. People act like they have read the upcoming book and know what's supposed to happen.

 

[Kerned]

For all we know Shireen doesn't die. People act like they have read the upcoming book and know what's supposed to happen.

For all we know she does.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

The truly offensive thing was Ramsay and his magic 20 men being successful, which is what lead to Shireen getting burned.

I'm inclined to agree with this. Stannis didn't just happily burn his girl, he was clearly remorseful when it happened, but it was something he felt he had to do which is 100% his character. However, I feel the issues are his motives for needing to do it have all been week as fuck. Ramsey's God mode shit is moronic and Stannis has never seemed to want anything more than the throne which he no longer has a heir for; if his motivation was him being R'hllor reborn so that he could defeat the others I'd be fine with it.

 

[m_shortpants]

For all we know she does.

But Stannis isn't at the wall, so he wouldn't do it.

 

[Beelzebufo]

I've already discussed the many reasons why the Stannis of the books makes no sense going down this road. It makes no sense as written. It's possible GRRM can suddenly write that change in character into the next book with enough time to make that shit make sense, but it's hard to imagine how.

Consider on top of all the groundwork the book lays down to let us know he'd never do that to Shireen, he doesn't even NEED her in the books. He has access to other people with Kings blood. Tell me, exactly why would he burn his own next in line when he has Theon?

He's already gone down this path in the books. It's literally all that he is. "Put your duty before yourself".

Are you talking about him actually burning Shireen in the books? Because of course that won't happen. But he totally would in the books if he was ever in this situation. No other King's Blood, no Theon, no other way out. It's completely 100% in character, I think you're confusing Stannis's character with his circumstances.

In the books obviously Mel or Jon or someone else at the wall will burn Shireen. But that doesn't mean Stannis wouldn't if he had to. If you honestly think that the Stannis in the books would put his love for his daughter over all life in Westeros, you've never understood his character.

That's why it's so nice that the books (and show) present Stannis and Jon together. Stannis is always willing to make the practical (and arguably evil) decisions that Jon can't.

 

[duckroll]

Obviously the Sons of the Harpy got training from Ramsey.

I mean how else do you explain some old ex-slave masters being master fighters.

Ramsey is Euron. It all makes sense now.

 

[LordCanti]

Ramsey is Euron. It all makes sense now.

Also Daario.

 

[jett]

The only character that you can really root for is Jon Snow. \o/

Until he dies next week lololol.

If the show ends with that cliffhanger the reactions from the unwashed will be hilarious, since the show has made zero references to Jon warging or to Melisandre reviving him.

 

[schlongdog]

He's already gone down this path in the books. It's literally all that he is. "Put your duty before yourself".

Are you talking about him actually burning Shireen in the books? Because of course that won't happen. But he totally would in the books if he was ever in this situation. No other King's Blood, no Theon, no other way out. It's completely 100% in character, I think you're confusing Stannis's character with his circumstances.

In the books obviously Mel or Jon or someone else at the wall will burn Shireen.

You're saying it better than I could, and thank god, because it's 4AM here and I need sleep.

 

[Amir0x]

Until he dies next week lololol.

If the show ends with that cliffhanger the reactions from the unwashed will be hilarious, since the show has made zero references to Jon warging or to Melisandre reviving him.

Speaking of cliffhangers, did the show abandon Stoneheart entirely or is it still coming?

 

[Crashdown]

Ramsey is Euron. It all makes sense now.

Ramsey: The Many-Faced Bod

 

[Basileus777]

I look forward to debating how Shireen gets burned in the books until 2017 when we finally find out.

Speaking of cliffhangers, did the show abandon Stoneheart entirely or is it still coming?

Why would we get Stoneheart now?

 

[duckroll]

Also Daario.

And Hodor.

 

[ChaosZeroX]

I also find it pretty stupid that Ramsay and 20 men just stroll through the entire camp. They burn all the food and fuck all the weapons up and no one hears a thing. I guess that means he was shirtless

 

[Jarmel]

How the fuck do 20 men roll into a camp that should be guarded day and night against surprise attacks and not only destroy the food supplies but the siege weapons too?

Like what the fuck? They got ALL of the siege weapons? Was Ramsay a spec ops commander in a previous life?

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Speaking of cliffhangers, did the show abandon Stoneheart entirely or is it still coming?

That whole part is cut out

 

[hawk2025]

I get the feeling that they did this so that we actually cheer for Brienne once she kills Stannis. Surely the show put her up in the north for that to happen, no?



...Right?

Or something?

 

[UberLevi]

I liked this episode, so I'm gonna apologize in advance. Some notes:

- I wasn't a fan of Ellaria's switcheroo in etiquette on such quick notice.

- They've really been setting up those Olly shots at the wall.

- I think Trant's pedophilia isn't an attempt to make us hate him more, I think it's to set up how Arya will get him.

- Mace continues to be a lovable buffoon.

- I enjoyed the scene at Daznak's Pit. CGI was fine, it's a show not a summer blockbuster.

- Shireen scene was hard to watch, which I enjoy in Game of Thrones. Kudos to them for the bold move, sorry guys. I don't think it was totally out of character for Stannis. He gets told hundreds will die at the Blackwater and his only response is 'thousands'. Plus, Melisandre told him he'd turn on his family back in Season 2 and so far her predictions have come to fruition. Like her or hate her, you gotta start putting more faith in her words. I hate it too, but she's right more often than she's wrong. My only wish is that they'd waited to pull this off until Balon died so Stannis would be all in on Melisandre's voodoo juju tricks. I think if the third leech had come to pass, the decision would have seemed less abrupt and out of place.

 

[jett]

Speaking of cliffhangers, did the show abandon Stoneheart entirely or is it still coming?

The next episode is named Mother's Mercy...so, I dunno? Maybe? Maybe not?

 

[Amir0x]

Why would we get Stoneheart now?

I mean I was just wondering if they got rid of that plot altogether. I always thought it was a silly moment from the books, so I was just wondering.

 

[Massa]

I also find it pretty stupid that Ramsay and 20 men just stroll through the entire camp. They burn all the food and fuck all the weapons up and no one hears a thing. I guess that means he was shirtless

That was really bad. They should've just written the sellswords to run away with the supplies or something.

 

[Atraveller]

How the fuck do 20 men roll into a camp that should be guarded day and night against surprise attacks and not only destroy the food supplies but the siege weapons too?

Like what the fuck? They got ALL of the siege weapons? Was Ramsay a spec ops commander in a previous life?

And if you look at the starting scene again, the tents all caught on fire on their own, and in different places!

 

[LifEndz]

I see this thread is predictably at the point where if something horrible happens that hasn't happened in the books yet, it's the work of those awful hacks D&D. Yet if the same thing had already taken place in the books, it would be another example of the twisted genius of GRRM.

Ya know, this deviation worked for me, and I usually hate grand departures from the book. (Still don't get why they skipped Jamie's confession about Tryion's wife, but whatever.) Anyway, I'm actually intrigued about what happens next with Stannis now. Lighting your own daughter on fire? Jaime stays catching shit about killing a homicidal maniac of a king, but a king that burned his own daughter? Yikes. Can't wait to see what Davos does.

 

[Vhagar]

I see this thread is predictably at the point where if something horrible happens that hasn't happened in the books yet, it's the work of those awful hacks D&D. Yet if the same thing had already taken place in the books, it would be another example of the twisted genius of GRRM.

Yep

 

[suzu]

Until he dies next week lololol.

If the show ends with that cliffhanger the reactions from the unwashed will be hilarious, since the show has made zero references to Jon warging or to Melisandre reviving him.

Yeah, I am looking forward to that meltdown.

 

[Beelzebufo]

The next episode is named Mother's Mercy...so, I dunno? Maybe? Maybe not?

I thought that largely meant we were getting Cersei (setting up for a Kevan cliffhanger), but it could be bother I guess.

 

[Yoda]

It's not entirely out of character for Stannis. He's slowly been giving more and more of himself to pursue his ambitions. This was evident in his disdain for how he had to kill Renly (he agreed to Davos' advice of forcing Melisendre to stay @ Dragon Stone). However this is the same man who starved during a siege that surely would have made ANYONE else in Westeros surrender; and he proceeded to punish the man who saved them despite the insane circumstances... There needed to be more build-up, but it just wasn't there. Executing a child in the name of a religion will never be something that is "easy to watch", but for SHOW Stannis (and book Stannis) it's currently out of character. Stannis could have faced more adversity to do so... Burnt tents, horses, and food = enough to burn your heir? I don't think so.

 

[Jarmel]

And if you look at the starting scene again, the tents all caught on fire on their own, and in different places!

Yea I saw that too. I was expecting explosives maybe. However they just randomly catch on fire.

 

[WrenchNinja]

All he does is burn Stannis' supplies and runs away. Why wouldn't he be successful?

Because it's stupid how he would be able to easily sneak in and wreck the place.

And surprise, as we've all seen, it was really stupid.

 

[Betty]

Speaking of cliffhangers, did the show abandon Stoneheart entirely or is it still coming?

Pretty sure it's cut, an interview with the actress claimed as much and it's lost the impact it would've had anyway.

 

[Showaddy]

I also find it pretty stupid that Ramsay and 20 men just stroll through the entire camp. They burn all the food and fuck all the weapons up and no one hears a thing. I guess that means he was shirtless

Yeah the tents all spontaneously combusting was something else, Ramsay is such an amazing ninja even the camera's couldn't catch him.

Edit: Just realised that one of the behind the scenes had Ramsay covered in blood post-battle, figured it was after his camp raid but must be next episode.

Until he dies next week lololol.

If the show ends with that cliffhanger the reactions from the unwashed will be hilarious, since the show has made zero references to Jon warging or to Melisandre reviving him.

Well Mel meeting Thoros & Beric then staring at Jon for a really, really long time kinda counts I geuss. Or not...

 

[Beelzebufo]

I see this thread is predictably at the point where if something horrible happens that hasn't happened in the books yet, it's the work of those awful hacks D&D. Yet if the same thing had already taken place in the books, it would be another example of the twisted genius of GRRM.

And yet when those awful hacks D&D turn the show into action schlock, suddenly the show's the best its been all season. I don't understand it either haha

 

[Kusagari]

Ramsay is basically a villain sue at this point.

Nothing about him is believable because he just continues to pull off more and more shit that should completely backfire on him with zero repercussions.

 

[Last Hearth]

So Stannis, the man who held Storm's End for a year eating rats and didn't give up decides 2 hours after his supplies are burnt that he obviously needs to burn his daughter and only heir. Okay that makes sense.

 

[InfiniDragon]

I see this thread is predictably at the point where if something horrible happens that hasn't happened in the books yet, it's the work of those awful hacks D&D. Yet if the same thing had already taken place in the books, it would be another example of the twisted genius of GRRM.

From what I'm reading, a bunch of people are saying fuck GRRM too if he signed off on that. And I agree with those people.

 

[Basileus777]

Cat died 20 episodes ago and there's been no setup for Stoneheart. It will be season 7 and we will still have people wondering if Stoneheart is going to show up.

And yet when those awful hacks D&D turn the show into action schlock, suddenly the show's the best its been all season. I don't understand it either haha

But the show is at its best when it embraces it schlockiness.

 

[LordCanti]

I also find it pretty stupid that Ramsay and 20 men just stroll through the entire camp. They burn all the food and fuck all the weapons up and no one hears a thing. I guess that means he was shirtless

Completely nude with no shoes making nary a sound.

 

[RaidenZR]

In the "Inside the Episode" segment, D&D made it sound like they had knowledge that the burning of Shireen happens in text. That's the first time they've talked about something like it has happened, when it totally hasn't. It's one thing to be ambiguous by just covering events on the show and letting viewers of all types interpret it as they like. It's another to thing entirely for them to spoil the books in such a post-episode way.

Bad form, D&D. Bad form.

 

[Lothar]

Now we have a bad guy vs bad guy army fight. What was point of making Stannis heroic this season?

That ruins a major part of the story. If GRRM does it, then it ruins the Stannis part of the story too. Retrospectively. Now every time you went back and read a Davos chapter, you couldn't root for Stannis over Joffrey even, you couldn't feel good when saved the Night's Watch from the wildings, you would always want Davos to stab him to death and wonder how he can be such a bad judge of character.

 

[duckroll]

Was Ramsay a spec ops commander in a previous life?

Previous life?