Er, what exactly did they screw up?
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 5 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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Er, what exactly did they screw up?
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Why were you on Team Stannis?
Shuggananas
Banned
Three times the population of meereen as harpies lol
and hizdahr isn't the harpy in this, what in the fuck
and hizdahr isn't the harpy in this, what in the fuck
Last Hearth
Member
Stannis held Storm's End without supplies and ate rats and boiled leather for a year and would not break. He gives up his daughter and only heir after 2 hours of having his supplies burnt. (Which being the great military commander he is he failed to protect from 20 men). This is good writing to you?
Hizdahr isn't the Harpy in the books either, most likely. Barristan believes he is but Barristan is an old codger easily manipulated.
Completely different scenarios. He was defending Storm's End, a castle on a coast in a siege. Currently he is out in the open with no supplies, dying horses, dying men, and winter quickly worsening. You don't hold out in the middle of a field for a year in winter.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Horses = food
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
I take it you didn't find the NUMEROUS ways they explained through both exposition and action that this march to winterfell was brutal, that supplies were running low, that they couldn't turn back and didn't have enough to reach their destination as good enough foreshadowing? Or that the reference you're drawing from was never mentioned in the show? (Or that that reference was necessarily good writing?)
Dumb people fall back on this "bad writing" thing far too often and don't even know what it means. You see Heroes? That's bad writing. This? This was brilliant and evocative and devastating and a narrative masterstroke. It tells you something we didn't know about three separate characters while also raising the stakes (stakes, get it?) even higher. You say bad writing, I say awful and uneducated criticism.
Operations
Member
The hell? He was INSIDE the castle that time around, just like Roose is now. Not even remotely comparable.
That's not a problem. It's much easier to hold a castle under siege. And under seige he didn't have any possible hope of sallying out. In this case he believes he can win a counter-attack *if* R'hlor's gor his back. He just witnessed how vulnerable he is in camps.
Plus he didn't have Mel during the siege. She's obviously The Whole Thing when it comes to where Stannis's priorities are now.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
No it's bad writing because
We'll see his eyes go white. The Unsullied will figure it out.I doubt they'll leave Jon where GRRM left him at the end of Dance. People are gonna spot Kit later in the year for filming
Inside the episode confirmed that George actually came up with the idea of burning Shireen. This is not something they decided to do for TV. The writer of the books literally told them it was going to happen.
So yeah no reason to blame D&D but Stannis also killed his brother and tried killing his nephew. Plus the quote from Melisande that goes along the lines of "you will betray your family" blah blah. Stannis will do anything for the throne, not all that surprising.
Found the quote.
So yeah. He slowly becoming someone else, Gus character been on this path for a long time.
I think you vastly underestimate how much food an army on the march needs.
They said she gets burned not that Stannis burns her. It's hard to imagine since at this point in the story Stannis is refusing to even burn non-believers to help with the snow storm instead telling the people that want him to do that to "pray harder". He's also hundreds of miles away from Shireen, and he orders for her to be made queen if he dies.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Doesn't really hold when book milisandre wanted mance's babies blood
Didn't Davos say their siege weaponry got destroyed? Though I could be mistaken...
Still lol'ing though that 20 dudes could just sneak into a huge camp completely unnoticed and destroy literally every single thing they needed to destroy and get away scot free. I mean I understand it's for TV and you need to move the story along, but hey
Last Hearth
Member
No, I don't find Ramsay's super guerrilla force believable. No, I don't find Stannis who is famous for his stubborn refusal to bend change his mind so quickly believable. The entire situation is contrived to the hilt just so we can get to the shocking moment of burning a young girl alive on TV. It's hackneyed and cheap. But it's becoming the only thing the writers of this show are capable of.
What I can't figure out is what Sansa is so worried about if Stannis is about to lay siege to Winterfell. She seems completely hopeless in the preview, like she believes all she has in store is more beatings from Ramsay.
I'm kinda joking. I just thought he was kind of a badass during the battle for blackwater bay.
As another poster said earlier, Stannis is actually obviously a psycho, and there has been plenty of proof of this (ie. killing his brother, burning brother in law, etc)
Dany shitting in a field.
Jon dying.
That ending will create the biggest shitstorm.
Like Red Wedding and Ned's Beheading.
If they do it before Dany sitting in a field, people will be too upset to give a shit.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
They need blood and fire. Even with Mance being shot with an arrow, his blood still burnt. Even before that... They could have leeched him. I think milisandre just, Ya know, plot-forgot she could do that.
That said, I liked it. The show dramatizes a lot that's in the book in a better way, it makes for good tv. I just think this one doesn't make sense but it doesn't bother me THAT much. It was just my first thought after the scene
mariachi507
Member
I'm not going to try and tell you that the writing was good in regards to portraying Stannis's decision. I believe that more screentime was needed to show how dire the situation was for his army. However, we need to remember that Stannis is not the same man he was when he held Storm's End during Robert's rebellion. The Stannis of old may have endured and live off of rats and leather, but I don't believe it is that far fetched for the egotistical red god reborn Stannis to have made the decision he did.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Cersei's scourge
Jon's death / zombification
Sansa escape with Theon
winterfell siege
Mereen aftermath (should we let the other dragons out? They seem mad.)
Arya MDKs pedoGoldcloak, has wolfdream and BOOOOM
LADY STONEHEART REVEAL
Fade to black
Dany on a mountainside thinkin bout flowers
CREDITS
Basileus777
Member
I wonder if the Dothraki will even be in the show again. They probably shouldn't be.
Shuggananas
Banned
D&D just shot themselves in the foot.
I don't know how much the rest of you know about American culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in Japan where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw someone over in America, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.
What this means is the american public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase season 6 for either system, nor will they purchase any of D&D's series. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but D&D have alienated an entire market with this move.
D&D, publicly apologize and cancel S6 for TV or you can kiss your business goodbye.
I don't know how much the rest of you know about American culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in Japan where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw someone over in America, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.
What this means is the american public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase season 6 for either system, nor will they purchase any of D&D's series. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but D&D have alienated an entire market with this move.
D&D, publicly apologize and cancel S6 for TV or you can kiss your business goodbye.
biosnake20
Member
Rhaegar definitely does.
I kinda hate Sansa after re-watching a bit of GOT.
She was a total dick to Tyrion who was nothing but a saint to her. The nicest thing she ever did for him was pick up a wine cup. But the whole "woe is me, I have to marry the nicest guy but I'm a vain, superficial, intolerant, and stupid. Dwarfs are icky" completely flipped me on her.
She was also a total dick to Arya and Ned. She has been a superficial *negative adjective here that is more commonly said in the UK* for the entire show.
I hope she dies. Only Stark I dislike.
She was a total dick to Tyrion who was nothing but a saint to her. The nicest thing she ever did for him was pick up a wine cup. But the whole "woe is me, I have to marry the nicest guy but I'm a vain, superficial, intolerant, and stupid. Dwarfs are icky" completely flipped me on her.
She was also a total dick to Arya and Ned. She has been a superficial *negative adjective here that is more commonly said in the UK* for the entire show.
I hope she dies. Only Stark I dislike.
There was a Bloodrider / Screamer / Whatever in the pit this ep.
But yeah I agree bringing in a Khalasar is kind of weird at this point.
They've always been an hour?
Shuggananas
Banned
She also has to take a beating cause jaqen knows she lied
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
I think there are problems with Super Ramsay, but we can hand wave some complaints -- writing -- the same way Davos did. This is the northerners' land, they know it better than we do. Our men are starving.
As for Stannis not changing his mind, if anything the Shireen sacrifice satisfies that he is truly committed to his goal.
It might have been shocking for the sake of it, but I didn't think it was contrived or poorly written. Nor do I think he changed his mind on a dime. His makeup and unkempt beard and hair and dark eyes clearly told a story of a man wrestling with the decision even before his supplies were destroyed.
BobTheFork
Member
:'(
Well I said it and I meant it. To the seven hells with you Stannis.
I REALLY didn't think we were going to see that.
Great episode...I didn't need to hear a child burned alive.
I hope that Davos cuts his fucking throat for that.
Maybe that's his reason to go find Rickon. Stannis is dead and he wants to try to restore winterfell.
Well I said it and I meant it. To the seven hells with you Stannis.
I REALLY didn't think we were going to see that.
Great episode...I didn't need to hear a child burned alive.
I hope that Davos cuts his fucking throat for that.
Maybe that's his reason to go find Rickon. Stannis is dead and he wants to try to restore winterfell.
Are you serious? She's a teenager (pre-teen in the books) forced into a marriage with a guy from the family who is responsible for most of her own family being killed. What the hell is superficial, intolerant, stupid, or vain about hating that situation and not being all friendly and happy about being forced into it?
Some are shorter. Some are on the long side.
Here's a list of things that are supposed to happen in episode 10.
-The beginning or entire siege of Winterfell
-Jon's stabbing by his own men
-The pink letter
-Balon Greyjoy's death/Yara's appearance
-Jaime returning home to reconnect with his sister
-Sansa attempting to escape or dying in the attempt.
-Brienne attempting to rescue Sansa, kill Stannis, or both.
-The Boltons dying or making plans to defend Winterfell.
-Cersei's walk of shame.
-Margaery gets released and reunited with Tommen.
-The fate of Loras hangs in the balance.
-Arya has to kill Meryn Trant for Syrio and for being a pedo, and continue her deception toward the HBW.
-The Martells have to do whatever it is the Martells will do, along with Myrcella and Trystane.
-The aftermath with Tyrion, Jorah, and Daario.
-The aftermath with Dany searching for a new army.
How the hell do you fit all that into 60 minutes?
-The beginning or entire siege of Winterfell
-Jon's stabbing by his own men
-The pink letter
-Balon Greyjoy's death/Yara's appearance
-Jaime returning home to reconnect with his sister
-Sansa attempting to escape or dying in the attempt.
-Brienne attempting to rescue Sansa, kill Stannis, or both.
-The Boltons dying or making plans to defend Winterfell.
-Cersei's walk of shame.
-Margaery gets released and reunited with Tommen.
-The fate of Loras hangs in the balance.
-Arya has to kill Meryn Trant for Syrio and for being a pedo, and continue her deception toward the HBW.
-The Martells have to do whatever it is the Martells will do, along with Myrcella and Trystane.
-The aftermath with Tyrion, Jorah, and Daario.
-The aftermath with Dany searching for a new army.
How the hell do you fit all that into 60 minutes?
Last Hearth
Member
"There will be no burnings. Pray harder."
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
To be fair Sansa IS all of the above. It's just that that's part of her character arc (and eventual rebirth as pragmatist) and she's a young brat that still doesn't quite get it. (Not justifying the criticism of her character)
PHOENIXZERO
Member
Still looks like to me that they're setting up Arya's being blinded, substituting Trant for Daeron.
Sure, she starts out as all of those things and slowly grows away from them. But I don't see what any of that has to do with her not being grateful enough towards Nice Guy Tyrion after she was forced to marry him in the third season/book.
Looks to me like they're skipping that completely, since they're already drawing on
the "Mercy" preview chapter for TWOW
NB Do we have to tag stuff from a preview chapter if it's already been/being covered by the show?
Sam still has to make it to the citadel too
Why would there even be a Pink Letter? Stannis vs Bolton and Jon vs Watch is plenty to worry about, don't need to entangle them. There's enough tension at Castle Black to motivate Olly stabbing Jon as-is. All you need is a Brother and a Thenn getting in a scuffle; it's the Brother's fault, Jon rules death / punishment to the brother. Olly goes nuts.
Very badly and rushed like they do every finale every season except for the first.
Also you left out Theon's heart tree scene. (I know we won't get it but it's the best chapter in the damn book)
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