Support NeoGAF

[Ikael]

Could also refer to Arya's storyline, if they follow parts of Mercy.

That would be underwhelming. Even the unsullied tread knows how this story is going to end: With BADDASS ASSIN Arya, getting revenge over EVIL PHEDOPHILE TRANT and KILLING HIM with TELEGRAPHED dialogue and cues written in this UTTERLY ANNOYING manner to boot

 

[Cornballer]

- EW: When Tyrion met Dany: A behind-the-scenes Q&A with two 'Thrones' favorites

Apparently Michele Clapton's leaving the show D:

- Game of Thrones Costume Designer Michele Clapton Tells Us All About the Season 5 Looks

Since the beginning, Emmy-winning costume designer Michele Clapton has been in charge of dressing the characters — a challenging task, to say the least — and season five is, sadly, her last. Clapton told me the news during a Skype call from France, where she is working on a new project. "I feel like we’ve covered all bases now. It was really important to me, knowing that I was going to leave, to actually design the costumes for each [geographic] area so it’s complete," Clapton says. "In my head anyway it’s a complete look that I left."

She discusses the nipples on the Sand Snake armor and a few other things via the link.

 

[Paganmoon]

That would be underwhelming. Even the unsullied tread knows how this story is going to end: With BADDASS ASSIN Arya, getting revenge over EVIL PHEDOPHILE TRANT and KILLING HIM with TELEGRAPHED dialogue and cues written in this UTTERLY ANNOYING manner to boot

Well it'd be an unpublished book spoiler, and it won't be the first time some news outlet has overhyped something.

 

[Marz]

Know I'm way late , but Stannis burning shireen made no sense whatsoever. Completely out of character for Stannis and made even worse by the fact that they had that scene with him and Shireen where he basically told her she was his everything and he would do anything for her because she is his blood. Also told Mel to GTFO when she suggested to him to sacrifice her.

Then one scene later fuck it let's burn my daughter and extinguish the Baratheon line while we're at it.

Yea great storytelling there if you're going to have something as stupid as that you need to set it up properly.

 

[Massa]

Book Stannis is that too. Yet trapped in the blizzard with his death looking likely, he isn't sending messages to burn his daughter. Instead he's sending messages to crown his daughter in case of his death.

When things get dire he already murdered Renly, Cortnay and he was on the way to kill Edric as well, to fulfill his destiny.

Also he's not going to burn Shireen via a raven message, either his family will go to him in Winterfell or he'll crawl back to the Wall. I expect things to get pretty bad before that happens, maybe he gets trapped at Winterfell or something.

 

[Zolo]

Know I'm way late , but Stannis burning shireen made no sense whatsoever. Completely out of character for Stannis and made even worse by the fact that they had that scene with him and Shireen where he basically told her she was his everything and he would do anything for her because she is his blood. Also told Mel to GTFO when she suggested to him to sacrifice her.

Then one scene later fuck it let's burn my daughter and extinguish the Baratheon line while we're at it.

Yea great storytelling there if you're going to have something as stupid as that you need to set it up properly.

To me, it depends on the situation. If he's doing it because he believes he's the only one who can stop the White Walkers, then it makes sense. If he's doing it for the crown, then yeah. It makes no sense. It's sorta a 'For the Greater Good' notched up to 11, though it'll ultimately be meaningless since Stannis'll probably fail somewhere else or be killed.

Edit: It does feel pretty crap that so many of Stannis's postivie qualities and lines aren't in the show though, but they obviously included scenes with Shireen just for this one event.

 

[TRios Zen]

Know I'm way late , but Stannis burning shireen made no sense whatsoever. Completely out of character for Stannis and made even worse by the fact that they had that scene with him and Shireen where he basically told her she was his everything and he would do anything for her because she is his blood. Also told Mel to GTFO when she suggested to him to sacrifice her.

Then one scene later fuck it let's burn my daughter and extinguish the Baratheon line while we're at it.

Yea great storytelling there if you're going to have something as stupid as that you need to set it up properly.

Nuanced story telling is earned, not granted, IMO, and the show has not earned it. That doesn't mean I hate the show (I don't) or that I'm a book purist (number of things I don't like about the books, particularly AFFC and ADWD), but Stannis' dire straits were not sold in the show so that for me, the burning Shireen came off as forced AND uncharacteristic.

But I agree, this has probably been talked to death. New episode needed to wash this last one away. What I'm worried about is getting all the cliffhangers from the books, in E10, with no resolution and having 10 months or whatever to stew on that.

 

[Zolo]

Nuanced story telling is earned, not granted, IMO, and the show has not earned it. That doesn't mean I hate the show (I don't) or that I'm a book purist (number of things I don't like about the books, particularly AFFC and ADWD), but Stannis' dire straits were not sold in the show so that for me, the burning Shireen came off as forced AND uncharacteristic.

This is kinda how it is for me. If Stannis does the same thing in the books, I expect it to be better-detailed and not as contrived as it was on the show, but I think I get the general reasoning for it.

 

[mantidor]

Know I'm way late , but Stannis burning shireen made no sense whatsoever. Completely out of character for Stannis and made even worse by the fact that they had that scene with him and Shireen where he basically told her she was his everything and he would do anything for her because she is his blood. Also told Mel to GTFO when she suggested to him to sacrifice her.

Then one scene later fuck it let's burn my daughter and extinguish the Baratheon line while we're at it.

Yea great storytelling there if you're going to have something as stupid as that you need to set it up properly.

It could have worked if they had shown a really desperate situation, not just half a dozen soldiers in line with one of the shaking from the cold. Also it pains me to say it but the acting didn't deliver, Stannis felt out of character, and the way they portrayed Selyse was out of character. For the show may I clarify, because I think in the overall story it made sense, these people have been burning relatives since season 2.


It didn't help that the catalyst were "20 good men" destroying the supplies of an army of thousands, while not impossible, the odds were against them, so not showing how they pulled that shit out just adds to the joke of Ramsay's invincibility and makes the whole thing make no sense.

 

[Iksenpets]

Know I'm way late , but Stannis burning shireen made no sense whatsoever. Completely out of character for Stannis and made even worse by the fact that they had that scene with him and Shireen where he basically told her she was his everything and he would do anything for her because she is his blood. Also told Mel to GTFO when she suggested to him to sacrifice her.

Then one scene later fuck it let's burn my daughter and extinguish the Baratheon line while we're at it.

Yea great storytelling there if you're going to have something as stupid as that you need to set it up properly.

I was thinking it through earlier, and even the "for the greater good" argument doesn't really fit anymore after the greyscale story. He risked spreading a plague that could have killed everyone on Dragonstone and possibly spread beyond just to take a one-in-a-million shot at curing her. He's not willing to take a similar risk against the threat of some snow? Not even wait to see if Castle Black is willing to send supplies? Granted, the stakes are a higher now with the war, but he didn't even try to find a way around it. I know they have to speed things up for TV, but it's still rough to have to see a character make a turn like that out of nowhere.

Edit: It does feel pretty crap that so many of Stannis's postivie qualities and lines aren't in the show though, but they obviously included scenes with Shireen just for this one event.

Yeah, they reduced him to an assholish guy who's one redeeming quality is his love of his daughter, just so they can strip that away from him. Again, I know things are going to be simplified, and Stannis is a pretty hard and complex character to get across, even in the book format, but it's hard not to wish it had been better.

 

[TRios Zen]

This is kinda how it is for me. If Stannis does the same thing in the books, I expect it to be better-detailed and not as contrived as it was on the show, but I think I get the general reasoning for it.

The sad thing is that "no good can survive" in Westeros is the cudgel that GRRM has beaten us over the head with so much that I think we all EXPECT a father to burn his daughter as par for the course. Just how we get there is different.

 

[Zolo]

I know they have to speed things up for TV, but it's still rough to have to see a character make a turn like that out of nowhere.

This is generally why I'd say if it happens, it'll be better in the books at least. The show doesn't really have the time to focus on it; especially since Stannis isn't a particularly popular character no matter how vocal his fanbase is.

 

[Basileus777]

It didn't help that the catalyst were "20 good men" destroying the supplies of an army of thousands, while not impossible, the odds were against them, so not showing how they pulled that shit out just adds to the joke of Ramsay's invincibility and makes the whole thing make no sense.

I wonder why they even wrote it this way. Instead of "20 good men" maybe Ramsey leads the Bolton cavalry and raids the camp. The Boltons lose men but inflict enough damage to leave Stannis in a rough spot. It makes a lot more sense and requires a change of a few words. It's not like they actually showed the raid, which is the only reason I can see why limiting it to 20 men would make sense.

 

[8bitsuperhero]

So what do you guys think the chances are of the Freys coming back in the next couple of seasons? Slim to non-existent? Or will Walder Frey show back up just so Arya can kill him?

 

[Basileus777]

So what do you guys think the chances are of the Freys coming back in the next couple of seasons? Slim to non-existent? Or will Walder Frey show back up just so Arya can kill him?

They will have to show up in some fashion. The Red Wedding is too big of a deal to completely ignore.

 

[Zolo]

I still have no idea what Arya's end game is.

 

[The Smoking Bun]

That would be underwhelming. Even the unsullied tread knows how this story is going to end: With BADDASS ASSIN Arya, getting revenge over EVIL PHEDOPHILE TRANT and KILLING HIM with TELEGRAPHED dialogue and cues written in this UTTERLY ANNOYING manner to boot

They should turn the sequence into an 80's action flick and give Arya some Schwarzenegger lines... <Arya throws dagger. STICK AROUND!>

I still have no idea what Arya's end game is.

A fact that bugs me too. She could kill a couple of major players and then what?
I mean a Martin style ending would involve a botched assassination and her corpse being thrown in a ditch but wouldn't that be anti-climactic?

 

[Madness]

So what do you guys think the chances are of the Freys coming back in the next couple of seasons? Slim to non-existent? Or will Walder Frey show back up just so Arya can kill him?

Depends if Rickon, White Harbor and the Manderly story is in play. They are duty sworn to the Starks and won't forgive the Freys or Boltons etc. I think the show runners made it clear with how they had Bran talk about guest right how it was something bad Frey did, that he might get what's coming to him. Who knows though. We didn't get anything on the Greyjoys, Dorne was a piece of shit with almost all major characters cut, etc.

 

[Zolo]

So what do you'll think the chances of Brienne killing Stannis next episode is?

 

[schlongdog]

So what do you'll think the chances of Brienne killing Stannis next episode is?

4/1

 

[kirblar]

So what do you'll think the chances of Brienne killing Stannis next episode is?

A lot higher after Ep9, if the goal of that was to accelerate Stannis' storyline.

 

[Real Hero]

So what do you'll think the chances of Brienne killing Stannis next episode is?

High as well as Davos being killed at the wall

 

[bodyofanamerican]

High as well as Davos being killed at the wall

God dammit, yep. And then Brienne goes to find Rickon. Barf.

 

[Iksenpets]

So what do you guys think the chances are of the Freys coming back in the next couple of seasons? Slim to non-existent? Or will Walder Frey show back up just so Arya can kill him?

I would bet on it happening next season. Especially now that Jaime is being reset to exactly where he started in King's Landing, and Brienne is soon to be freed up as the northern plot ends, it seems like they were probably on filler plots this season precisely because they needed to push the Riverlands plot to season 6.

High as well as Davos being killed at the wall

I'd put both these events at a like 30% chance. Not the most likely outcome, but a very significant possibility.

 

[forgeforsaken]

They should turn the sequence into an 80's action flick and give Arya some Schwarzenegger lines... <Arya throws dagger. STICK AROUND!>



A fact that bugs me too. She could kill a couple of major players and then what?
I mean a Martin style ending would involve a botched assassination and her corpse being thrown in a ditch but wouldn't that be anti-climactic?

A disguised Arya will kill/be killed by a warged Jon with neither realizing who the other actually is.

 

[Zolo]

High as well as Davos being killed at the wall

Dammit! I didn't even think about this!

 

[darkwing]

I think it's less the idea of a small group of 20 leading a wildly successful raid on an unprepared enemy as it is the fact that Ramsay keeps getting away with it. Ramsay has now toplessly defeated the Iron Islands finest soldiers, married a pretty highborn girl who he can abuse nightly without repercussion, sniffed out the nascent Northern conspiracy against him and flayed it's old-lady leader alive, and now run a daring raid against the finest commander in the kingdom that was so successful it crippled an army. Like, none of these things are implausible, it just starts to get tiresome how unstoppable the guy apparently is. Ramsay is just their go-to device to make bad things happen to people. Really, I don't think people would mind it so much if the Yara plot last season hasn't created the meme that Ramsay is the world's greatest fighter.

#TeamRamsay, the king Westeros deserves (except Dorne)

 

[Massa]

High as well as Davos being killed at the wall

Yeah, chances of Davos working with Stannis again are slim.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

High as well as Davos being killed at the wall

This better not happen.

 

[mantidor]

My guess is that Arya will complete her training, get almost all people on the list, but to finish the list she would have to kill a Stark for some reason.

Is Theon on her list? Shouldn't she know he "killed" her brothers? Because everyone else does.

 

[8bitsuperhero]

I still have no idea what Arya's end game is.

I'm willing to bet Arya ends up being the assassin who kills either Myrcella or Tommen in the end (rookie status notwithstanding).

 

[Ratrat]

I wonder why they even wrote it this way. Instead of "20 good men" maybe Ramsey leads the Bolton cavalry and raids the camp. The Boltons lose men but inflict enough damage to leave Stannis in a rough spot. It makes a lot more sense and requires a change of a few words. It's not like they actually showed the raid, which is the only reason I can see why limiting it to 20 men would make sense.

Or they could have used the Karstark treachery or something similar.

 

[Moff]

calling it now, no one in the north dies this episode

 

[Basileus777]

My guess is that Arya will complete her training, get almost all people on the list, but to finish the list she would have to kill a Stark for some reason.

Is Theon on her list? Shouldn't she know he "killed" her brothers? Because everyone else does.

If she completes her training, why is she pursuing her own personal vendettas which the faceless men don't allow?

Or they could have used the Karstark treachery or something similar.

It would work, though at least there you would need to devote time and casting resources to it. They could have fixed this issue without spending an extra cent or minute.

 

[Majmun]

I still have no idea what Arya's end game is.

Probably assassinate Dany

 

[Moff]

I still have no idea what Arya's end game is.

die killing cersei, warg into nymeria and occupy the ruins of winterfell with her wolf pack

 

[Enosh]

So what do you'll think the chances of Brienne killing Stannis next episode is?

they had her camp out in front of winterfell all season going "boy I sure hate that Stannis guy" if not this episode then episode 1 in season 6

 

[Ganzlinger]

Who else thinks that the "next day girl" that Trant asks at the brothel will be Arya? I can see they trying to out her at the risk of being raped by him before killing him. And I have a feeling that Jaqen already knows what she is doing. Perhaps he is gonna check on her and help if she is danger.

 

[Confidence Man]

I still have no idea what Arya's end game is.

She'll probably get kicked out or leave on her own, reclaim Needle, and use what she's learned to finish off her list. I just can't see her basically dissolving into the Faceless Men.

 

[Moff]

Who esse thinks that the "next day girl" that Trant asks at the brothel will be Arya? I can see they trying to out her at the risk of being raped by him before killing him. And I have a feeling that Jaqen already knows what she is doing. Perhaps he is gonna check on her and help if she is danger.

I have not read it, but other said that's from "mercy" a released chapter from TWOW, so yes.
personally, I think she might use the face of the girl she killed at the well

 

[mantidor]

If she completes her training, why is she pursuing her own personal vendettas which the faceless men don't allow?

I've always thought (hoped more likely) of her character as Garret from the Thief games. He was trained by the keepers and very talented in doing the keeper thing but he decides to drop that and becomes kind of a pariah for the organisation, however they keep calling him for missions because he's so good at it.

 

[Dysun]

calling it now, no one in the north dies this episode

I agree with this except for Jon, obviously. I think the entire Winterfell arc is going to be left on a cliffhanger

 

[hendersonhank]

A fact that bugs me too. She could kill a couple of major players and then what?
I mean a Martin style ending would involve a botched assassination and her corpse being thrown in a ditch but wouldn't that be anti-climactic?

But even the "major players" at this point are people she has no history whatsover with. She doesn't even know who any of them are, except Littlefinger whom I don't think she knows anything about really.

It's too late for her to get revenge, everyone she may have wanted revenge on is dead or ruined (Cersei).

 

[Massa]

Who else thinks that the "next day girl" that Trant asks at the brothel will be Arya? I can see they trying to out her at the risk of being raped by him before killing him. And I have a feeling that Jaqen already knows what she is doing. Perhaps he is gonna check on her and help if she is danger.

Jaqen having to help her would indeed crash the internet.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

I agree with this except for Jon, obviously. I think the entire Winterfell arc is going to be left on a cliffhanger

It is tv writing 101 to not tell us jons fate this season and wait till the next one with cryptic ads.

 

[Moff]

I agree with this except for Jon, obviously. I think the entire Winterfell arc is going to be left on a cliffhanger

b-but jon doesnt die either

 

[Kain]

She'll probably get kicked out or leave on her own, reclaim Needle, and use what she's learned to finish off her list. I just can't see her basically dissolving into the Faceless Men.

Yep. She doesn't believe in the Faceless god and all that bullshit, she just wants to become good at killing discreetly. Maybe she ends up following the organization, who knows, but I'm pretty sure she just wants to learn all she can and get the hell out of there to finish that list of hers (it's bigger in the books).

 

[biosnake20]

.

 

[Speevy]

If they don't kill Stannis before Winterfell, he has to take Winterfell. If he takes Winterfell, the Boltons are dead.


I think it would be cool to begin the episode by showing a montage of a decisive Winterfell battle, followed by head spikes of the Bolton clan.

But I know that's unrealistic.

 

[jett]

So what do you'll think the chances of Brienne killing Stannis next episode is?

You don't burn a child and come out of it unscathed.

Stannis is a goner.