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[TCRS]

just watched sundays episode. jesus fucking christ, why do D&D have to be so fucking edgy? I'm just about done with this show... is what I thought until I saw the end. Man that was fucking awesome. Great camera angles as well. Would have preferred a bigger Drogon, like fucking huge and more fire.

but yeah that part with shireen... fuck D&D

 

[munchie64]

just watched sundays episode. jesus fucking christ, why do D&D have to be so fucking edgy? I'm just about done with this show... is what I thought until I saw the end. Man that was fucking awesome. Great camera angles as well. Would have preferred a bigger Drogon, like fucking huge and more fire.

but yeah that part with shireen... fuck D&D

See you next book

 

[Brakke]

EXACTLY!!

The first words out of Jon's mouth should have been "Guys, I've seen some shit". I mean, he's got fellow Nightwatch men to back up his story AND the Wildlings. They may not believe the Wildlings but how could everyone have the same story?

"The Night King is coming with an army of undead. They raise the fallen to grow their ranks. We need to prepare. I'm not fucking kidding."

The Watch already knows all this. A wight resurrected inside Castle Black. They fought an army of wights on the Fist. Sam told people he killed an Other. Maybe some people didn't believe the last but the existence of dead-raising Others isn't in doubt.

 

[Steelyuhas]

This is the stupidest shit.
They fight white walkers and dwights in ep8
ep9 they come back to the wall and they're all like "ugh we tired i'mma get some wine"

Just fucking tell them they have a huge army, they raise corpses, you killed one of them with valyrian steel and all that jazz for fucks sake

The show skips these conversations with the assumption that they do happen. With very limited time, they don't include scenes where characters fill each other in on what happened.

 

[Kyougar]

How would it be bad tv exactly. Or good anyway. Because we see it coming? That's the point.
We shoudn't be aware that jon is getting stabbed, but if he gets stabbed, adding a morally struggling character a long time before that and showing his thinking is the right way to do it.

It's certainly better than being stabbed by no named crows no one cares about.
Also I've never bought characters doing something "for the watch". They're here as a punishment and are sent here because they're not loyal/good people to begin with.

Olly is the only legitimate being here I can see doing something "for the watch".
What's fun is that he may not do it or save jon and it would work too and we don't know shit

Because its way overdone.
How many times did we see Olly with his "I'm gonna Ceasar this asshole in Episode 10" face? Every Episode where the watch is featured right? Olly would totally fail the Ceasar-Test which states that a character has to have other thoughts than to Caesar another Character or have a conversation without mentioning the person he wants to Caesar.

He totally fails this test! His only purpose is to think of stabbing Jon Snow. If he does it in the end, then it was bad TV. If not, the character can grow.

 

[Speevy]

Crazy stuff.

 

[Euron]

In case it hasn't been posted yet:

 

[Lonestar]

The Watch already knows all this. A wight resurrected inside Castle Black. They fought an army of wights on the Fist. Sam told people he killed an Other. Maybe some people didn't believe the last but the existence of dead-raising Others isn't in doubt.

Well, when/if "FTW" happens, the ones that do it, surely do not have a grasp on what's really going on/about to happen.

 

[suzu]

It's gonna be Olly. His whole character's purpose is to just fuck with Jon Snow. *Olly nod*

 

[munchie64]

In case it hasn't been posted yet:

These keep getting worse and worse.

 

[TCRS]

See you next book

hm... would I have accepted it if I had read it in the book first? maybe, I don't know. at least GRRM wouldn't do it in such a stupid way. the whole rushed pace, leaving out of plots, the weird atmosphere everything just doesn't add up and makes something like this looks like a cheap stunt for shock value.

poor shireen

 

[Tabris]

I do not understand why everyone thinks the Shireen scene is so out of character.

You can tell by the actors eyes and expression how much this decision pained him. He was unwilling to sacrifice her before but he was desperate here. It was a decision between his daughter and the fate of the 7 Kingdoms because his army wouldn't have been able to march and retreat would have meant he would have lost his window completely to invade from the North due to "Winter is Coming". It was a believe-able transition to me from unwilling to sacrifice to being desperate. Stannis is also the character that believes in the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.

I think everyone was just so appalled by the scene and their moral compasses were at odd with how they viewed Stannis + this scene doesn't exist in the books (yet) so they immediately went to "Bad writing, show is garbage, RAWR"

 

[Trojita]

They were paid off/threatened by Ramsey, it's why some of them were crying when they were doing it.

Not likely. They were crying because some of them did like Jon, but feeling their allegience was to the watch foremost, they felt their LC was betraying their mission.

 

[jett]

What if Olly neither saves nor kills?

Yeah, there's no chance Olly does the stabbing. After all, this show is known for subtlety.

 

[Tabris]

The Watch already knows all this. A wight resurrected inside Castle Black. They fought an army of wights on the Fist. Sam told people he killed an Other. Maybe some people didn't believe the last but the existence of dead-raising Others isn't in doubt.

FYI, there was only a couple people who survived that army of wights fight. Because more than half were killed in the fight (I think even more than that) and then a good amount became mutineers at Craster's Keep. In the show, only a couple people escape Craster's Keep to arrive at the wall. And all of them are Jon Snow supporters, so you can see why the rest of The Watch may not believe in White Walkers yet.

 

[Latvian Hitman]

Me yesterday:

Today, thankfully, R'hllor brought me back. But each time I come back, I'm a little...less.

So. What'd I miss?

 

[Brakke]

Well, when/if "FTW" happens, the ones that do it, surely do not have a grasp on what's really going on/about to happen.

That's true if Jon reiterates the Other-threat or if he doesn't. The problem with the Watch isn't that they're ignorant, it's that they're unscientific, preferring to cling to the traditions of the institution rather than responding to changing circumstances and stakes.

 

[Tabris]

Also if the big question was how much the Wildlings would add to the army of the dead, the other people in The Watch would rather just kill them and burn their bodies then let them come south of The Wall.

 

[Red Arremer]

Marsh seemed pretty scummy to me, but that's the impression I got xD

Marsh isn't the nicest dude, but I took him for a fairly serious watchman.

Marsh is a pussy and a bigot, but he is still smart and always has the Watch's best interests in mind, and even though he wasn't a fan of Jon letting the wildlings through the Wall, he still obeyed. He saw the reason behind Jon's decisions there.

He's always been concerned that Jon's involvement and pretty much outright support of Stannis in the struggle for control over the North is not only breaking the Watch's vow of neutrality, Jon is also directly antagonizing the Boltons (which is made even worse in the books by marrying the Karstark girl to the Magnar of Thenn). Heck Jon even has to be forced by Aemon and Sam to sign the letter that declares the Watch's neutrality, and he does so begrudgingly.
So what if Stannis loses, and the Boltons keep the North?

Basically Bowen Marsh put together the assassination solely because he feared that Jon would get entangled in the game of thrones (which was an absolutely valid concern), and by proxy get the entire Watch killed as traitors and supporters to a rebel. And the Pink Letter, whether it was truly written by Ramsay or not, is pretty much exactly the proof that Marsh needed.

 

[dubq]

They fight white walkers and dwights in ep8

 

[Enosh]

I do not understand why everyone thinks the Shireen scene is so out of character.

because we have seen/read him slog through a winter worse than what was portrayed in the show with men and horses dying left and right and his only comment was "Half my army is made up of unbelievers. I will have no burnings. Pray harder"

I can see Stannis burning his daughter is the most extreme of circumstances, aka burning her blows up all the white walkers while not burning her means millions of death

burning her just to get to winterfell and maybe win maybe not is utter bullshit

hell he wanted the death of 3 kings to justify killing his nephew who he didn't even really know in order to raise a god damn dragon, but here he is burning his daughter as a first solution because 21 dudes fucked up his shit so he might get close enough to winterfell to get shanked by brienne

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

because we have seen/read him slog through a winter worse than what was portrayed in the show with men and horses dying left and right and his only comment was "Half my army is made up of unbelievers. I will have no burnings. Pray harder"

I can see Stannis burning his daughter is the most extreme of circumstances, aka burning her blows up all the white walkers while not burning her means millions of death

burning her just to get to winterfell and maybe win maybe not is utter bullshit

And it's not like R'hollor is going to build him some new siege equipment.

 

[kirblar]

And it's not like R'hollor is going to build him some new siege equipment.

Rhil'or requires more vespene gas.

 

[munchie64]

Me yesterday:

Today, thankfully, R'hllor brought me back. But each time I come back, I'm a little...less.

So. What'd I miss?

I'll give you a rundown:

1. Oysters
2. Clams
3. Cockles

 

[Shahadan]

That's true if Jon reiterates the Other-threat or if he doesn't. The problem with the Watch isn't that they're ignorant, it's that they're unscientific, preferring to cling to the traditions of the institution rather than responding to changing circumstances and stakes.

This whole thing never made sense. We are supposed to believe these people are so dumb they are 100% sure some people built a big ass ice wall to prevent a bunch of raggedy smelly savages to enter their realm (which they do anyway since they're not stupid and have boats), even after witnessing the existence of undeads. And never question that idea, ever.

Also these people, murderers, rapists, thieves and what not, are suddenly very attached to some tradition and vow they have to keep and stuff. These people also think that letting thousands of your enemies die and be raised as an immortal army is the best thing to do.

I know that it's actually happening in a short time span, and they have too few shocking evidences to come to their senses, but come on.
The whole wall storyline was always boring to me because I'm supposed to accept a lot of bullshit.

I'd sooner believe someone would burn their own family to survive in the ice.

 

[Trojita]

It's too bad Donal Noye died. Dude was pretty badass for killing, with only one arm available, a giant.

 

[kirblar]

They've been guarding the wall from wildlings in recent history, not the Walkers. The Watch has strayed from its original purpose, which is why Jon ends up in the disaster of a situation he does.

 

[Tabris]

because we have seen/read him slog through a winter worse than what was portrayed in the show with men and horses dying left and right and his only comment was "Half my army is made up of unbelievers. I will have no burnings. Pray harder"

I can see Stannis burning his daughter is the most extreme of circumstances, aka burning her blows up all the white walkers while not burning her means millions of death

burning her just to get to winterfell and maybe win maybe not is utter bullshit

hell he wanted the death of 3 kings to justify killing his nephew who he didn't even really know in order to raise a god damn dragon, but here he is burning his daughter as a first solution because 21 dudes fucked up his shit so he might get close enough to winterfell to get shanked by brienne

It's a 60 minute show x10 with like 8-10 plot lines going on at the same time. They simply don't have time to show everything on camera. They showed quick scenes of his army freezing to death and hungry. They had a scene in a previous episode talking about being halted by this blizzard. The final straw was all the food, horses, and siege weapons Ramsay was able to sabotage. So desperation set in. That's as much scenes you can devote to that with how much they need to cover. Temper your expectations or you will continue to be disappointed.

This is advice all of you should take on or I would recommend probably not watching the show. They just cannot show enough. Some character developments will seem sudden. Some plot lines will be condensed. Some things will be skipped.

 

[Latvian Hitman]

I'll give you a rundown:

1. Oysters
2. Clams
3. Cockles

Yeah, about that!

 

[munchie64]

Do we know how long the finale is?

Yeah, about that!

Haha!

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Do we know how long the finale is?

I think 61 minutes is what I saw somewhere.

 

[StopMakingSense]

(•_•) 
<) )&#9583;OYSTERS 
 / \ 

 (&#8226;_&#8226;) 
 \( (>  CLAMS 
  / \ 

(&#8226;_&#8226;) 
<) )&#9583;COCKLES 
 / \

 

[Shahadan]

They've been guarding the wall from wildlings in recent history, not the Walkers. The Watch has strayed from its original purpose, which is why Jon ends up in the disaster of a situation he does.

Yes, that's dumb. When the wildlings are running from something you might just think about it two seconds and realize the wall and your order's very existence is not to fight this small threat but the bigger one.

Also when creating an order you should write somewhere the general rules and the reason of your existence. And that's not something you lose or forget, but whatever I accept that point.

 

[munchie64]

I think 61 minutes is what I saw somewhere.

Hmmm. The Children managed to do a lot with only a little more...

Man I'm worried about the pacing.

 

[The Elite]

EXACTLY!!

The first words out of Jon's mouth should have been "Guys, I've seen some shit". I mean, he's got fellow Nightwatch men to back up his story AND the Wildlings. They may not believe the Wildlings but how could everyone have the same story?

"The Night King is coming with an army of undead. They raise the fallen to grow their ranks. We need to prepare. I'm not fucking kidding."

This feels like it could be a South Park episode setup.

 

[Tabris]

What's the Oysters, Clams, and Cockles joke about?

Like same as WHERE ARE MY DRAGONS?! or something else?

 

[cartoon_soldier]

 

[The Elite]

What's the Oysters, Clams, and Cockles joke about?

Like same as WHERE ARE MY DRAGONS?! or something else?

Pretty much.

Except on repeat.

 

[Kain]

It just hit me... what the fuck do I do now after this sunday's episode? I don't want to re-read until I have the release date for TWOW (Hah!) :/

 

[Latvian Hitman]

What's the Oysters, Clams, and Cockles joke about?

Like same as WHERE ARE MY DRAGONS?! or something else?

More or less. Do a quick YouTube search and you'll find what you need.

 

[Latvian Hitman]

It just hit me... what the fuck do I do now after this sunday's episode? I don't want to re-read until I have the release date for TWOW (Hah!) :/

Well, True Detective looks like it's going to be pretty baller again this year.

 

[Iksenpets]

Poor Shireen doesn't get a death poster.

 

[Red Arremer]

More or less. Do a quick YouTube search and you'll find what you need.

Reminds me a bit of:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P38EG97zlOg

 

[ChaosZeroX]

Yeah I for one thought it would be Shireen getting the poster

 

[Tabris]

Back on my previous point, here are all the plotlines they need to cover in 600 minutes:

- Tyrion POV
- Dany POV
- Jamie POV
- Arya POV
- Brianne POV
- Jon POV
- Sansa POV
- Theon POV
- Sam POV
- Bran POV (not covered this season)
- Cersei POV
- "Generic Kings Landing POV"

That's 12 POV's that need to be covered each season. Replace certain ones based on deaths and new characters.

 

[News Bot]

I do not understand why everyone thinks the Shireen scene is so out of character.

You can tell by the actors eyes and expression how much this decision pained him. He was unwilling to sacrifice her before but he was desperate here. It was a decision between his daughter and the fate of the 7 Kingdoms because his army wouldn't have been able to march and retreat would have meant he would have lost his window completely to invade from the North due to "Winter is Coming". It was a believe-able transition to me from unwilling to sacrifice to being desperate. Stannis is also the character that believes in the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.

I think everyone was just so appalled by the scene and their moral compasses were at odd with how they viewed Stannis + this scene doesn't exist in the books (yet) so they immediately went to "Bad writing, show is garbage, RAWR"

If the circumstances which caused him to do it were handled better not many people would have a problem with it. The fact is that the writing was shit. It doesn't help that the whole thing was caused by Ramsey and his "20 good men" who get away scot-free without a single problem in a camp of over 1000 people and the fires magically lit at the same time, conveniently the time they got away.

Plus, D&D have already proven they know nothing about Stannis. First they said his entire character is about "ambition" (wrong) but also that he burned people alive on the beaches of Dragonstone when we first saw him... also utterly wrong, he was burning statues of the Seven. It's not inconceivable that they don't know that Shireen is of paramount importance to him, being his only heir and the only one he'll ever have. Stannis would rather offer himself to the flames if it meant Shireen had a chance at the throne instead, he cares about the line of succession. In the books he even makes a point of this, and orders Davos to lead his army in his stead if something should happen to him in order to place Shireen on the throne. This is completely gone in the show.

The only thing that Stannis really has going for him anymore is the prospect of the threat of the White Walkers trumping his views on Westerosi politics and he is willing to do whatever is necessary to save the world, his and his family's future be damned if need be. But the show doesn't give even the slightest inkling of this, it focuses on how being King is of the utmost importance. There's the whole Azor Ahai thing but that gets overshadowed all the time.

 

[StopMakingSense]

I think partly they just kind of told us the situation at their camp was already dire before the fires, as opposed to showing us a real sense of how bad their situation was with the blizzard. It was just a lot of unearned exposition that made the Shireen burning look out of place.

 

[Lothar]

It's a 60 minute show x10 with like 8-10 plot lines going on at the same time. They simply don't have time to show everything on camera. They showed quick scenes of his army freezing to death and hungry. They had a scene in a previous episode talking about being halted by this blizzard. The final straw was all the food, horses, and siege weapons Ramsay was able to sabotage. So desperation set in. That's as much scenes you can devote to that with how much they need to cover. Temper your expectations or you will continue to be disappointed.

This is advice all of you should take on or I would recommend probably not watching the show. They just cannot show enough. Some character developments will seem sudden. Some plot lines will be condensed. Some things will be skipped.

This is not a good excuse when the show devotes time to Sand Snakes having a slap fight. The whole Dorne plotlne should have been scrapped. No one enjoyed it and it did nothing for Jaime.

It makes Stannis look like an inhuman monster to make such a quick snap decision to burn his daughter immediately after Ramsay attacked. Seriously, it was at the 10 minute mark of the episode that he sends Davos away. It's like "Ramsay attacked you say? Ok burn my daughter."

Ramsay should have burned the supplies in episode 7, and they should have been starving on the blizzard already by episode 5.

 

[Tabris]

They need to add things like Sand Snakes to introduce areas and characters that will matter later in the story. Remember, everything they are showing is also for setting up upcoming seasons.

It's going to continue like this guys. I would recommend bailing out now.

 

[News Bot]

Ramsay should have burned the supplies in episode 7, and they should have been starving on the blizzard already by episode 5.

This wouldn't make much sense either though as Stannis just got funded by the fucking Iron Bank right before traveling to the Wall. Suddenly he ran out of all those funds and the resources they purchased?