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[Turin]

I'd reveal Lady Stoneheart(!) in the final scene (after Jon's 'death') to throw show watchers off the scent of Jon's obvious resurrection next season.

Putting Lady Stoneheart in such close proximity to Jon's resurrection is going to make the whole thing feel cheap.

With that said, LSH is supposed to be an example of resurrection gone horribly wrong. On the show it's not looking so bad. Beric is doing okay, even if a bit faded in spirit.

 

[Speevy]

Lana will no longer turn right onto Rathmon Lane. No one can afford fish there.

 

[Kain]

D&D EVEN GOT "OYSTERS CLAMS AND COCKLES" WRONG!!

#cocklegate #fanfictionconfirmed

#NOONEUNDERSTANDS

 

[Brakke]

Reading an Alayne chapter now.

"This morning her eye was caught by a parti-colored gown of Tully red and blue". Sansa isn't a Stark. Which always is *fine*. It's not that Sansa is detestable, it's that she's not aspirational. In the books for sure she's not worthy of the Stark name, and she really isn't in the show either.

As far as "training" under Littlefinger... it's nice to think that because we want her to step up but here's the releveant scene: shortly after Lyssa's death, Robin takes to sneaking into Sansa's bed. Sansa doesn't like this, and has a guard lock her door (I guess it only locks from the outside?). One night (occasionally, in fact), she forgets to have the door locked and Robin comes in and nuzzles her breast all night. Robin is literally he easiest dude to rebuff but she never does, she just rolls with it.

Someone saying early she found a maternal instinct with Robin? Nah. She just lets Robin happen to her. She lets everything happen to her. She comes to accept things, fine, but she never pursues anything.

The show and book make major diversions with regard to her situation, but they basically preserve her disposition. Sansa is an object to other subjects' verbs. Littlefinger takes *her* under his wing, Robin makes *her* into a mother, Bolton marries *her*, Ramsay rapes *her*, etc etc etc.

 

[Ratrat]

The show and book make major diversions with regard to her situation, but they basically preserve her disposition. Sansa is an object to other subjects' verbs. Littlefinger takes *her* under his wing, Robin makes *her* into a mother, Bolton marries *her*, Ramsay rapes *her*, etc etc etc.

IMO this isn't quite the same. Sansa's upbringing demands she always be polite and accommodating. It's a notable part of her character and something that will probably be important later on.

 

[duckroll]

After seeing what D&D did with mussels in Arya's arc this season, I'm not sure if I can even bring myself to watch the season finale. What a disaster of an adaptation.

 

[Brakke]

WHERE ARE MAH MUSSELLS??

IMO this isn't quite the same. Sansa's upbringing demands she always be polite and accommodating. It's a notable part of her character and something that will probably be important later on.

Arya's upbringing "demands" the same, but she rejects those demands (except when performing them is useful e.g. pouring for Tywin). Sansa *could* be making choices, we simply never see that happen.

That's why the whole "Sansa has steeled herself for this wedding night with Ramsay, she's going into it on purpose" angle from Cogman was it (?) was so hollow. The text never really shows Sansa explicitly choosing to accept her rape as a necessary pain on the road to some future victory. We never see her looking toward some future, we don't know if she has a plan, and she's immediately *destroyed* by her wedding night experience. There's just nothing to hold onto with her.

 

[Ratrat]

Arya's upbringing "demands" the same, but she rejects those demands (except when performing them is useful e.g. pouring for Tywin). Sansa *could* be making choices, we simply never see that happen.

That's why the whole "Sansa has steeled herself for this wedding night with Ramsay, she's going into it on purpose" angle from Cogman was it (?) was so hollow. The text never really shows Sansa explicitly choosing to accept her rape as a necessary pain on the road to some future victory. We never see her looking toward some future, we don't know if she has a plan, and she's immediately *destroyed* by her wedding night experience. There's just nothing to hold onto with her.

I was thinking about the books. Yes, that scene was awful. She wasn't steeling herself, she was petrified like it was her first wedding night.
In Game of Thrones we see Arya 'reject' these demands because she sucks at them, is constantly made a fool, belittled or treated as a 'problem'. I think Sansa doesn't reject them, because aside from it being pretty much the only thing she excels at, it's allowed her to survive all this time. Arya would be dead in her place.

 

[Pyramid head]

Putting Lady Stoneheart in such close proximity to Jon's resurrection is going to make the whole thing feel cheap.

With that said, LSH is supposed to be an example of resurrection gone horribly wrong. On the show it's not looking so bad. Beric is doing okay, even if a bit faded in spirit.

If I hadn't read the books I'd have spent the past couple of years shouting at my TV: "Where is the fucking badass with the eye patch who magics his sword on fire and can't be fucking killed!? Why isn't tearing up the 7 kingdoms killing the shit out of every one?? Fuck Cercei's daughter, fuck Greyworm, fuck the king, I want to know what that dude's doing!"

 

[Lothar]

WHERE ARE MAH MUSSELLS??



Arya's upbringing "demands" the same, but she rejects those demands (except when performing them is useful e.g. pouring for Tywin). Sansa *could* be making choices, we simply never see that happen.

That's why the whole "Sansa has steeled herself for this wedding night with Ramsay, she's going into it on purpose" angle from Cogman was it (?) was so hollow. The text never really shows Sansa explicitly choosing to accept her rape as a necessary pain on the road to some future victory. We never see her looking toward some future, we don't know if she has a plan, and she's immediately *destroyed* by her wedding night experience. There's just nothing to hold onto with her.

Cogman is a poor communicator. I don't think he meant to come off saying what it sounded like he was saying.

He followed that up with
UPDATE: Bryan Cogman tweeted the following: “Hi all. Not going to comment further but I do want to clarify something from the @EW interview that was conducted on set a few months ago: The ‘choice’ I was referring to was Sansa’s choice to marry Ramsay and walk into that room. She feels marrying him is a vital step in reclaiming her homeland. Not trying to change anyone’s opinion of the scene (negative or otherwise) but that it what I was … Ok, LAST last word. In NO WAY… NO WAY was that comment an attempt to ‘blame the victim.’ If it seemed that way I’m deeply sorry.”

That's still not totally clear but it sounds like he's saying she was steeling herself to marry him, not be raped.

I agree with you that it didn't even look like she made the choice to go marry him though. She didn't want to but she couldn't really put her foot down to tell Littlefinger "No." Same as the books. She didn't want to marry Harry the Heir. She did it because LF wanted her to. He says in the books that by marrying him, she'll get the Vale and Winterfell. When has she ever in her thoughts said she desired that kind of power? Never, I'm pretty sure. Just like in the show, she never said a thought about wanting revenge. Littlefinger told her she wanted revenge.

But see, I see that as a believable tragic child character. I don't dislike her for it. It's easy for a teacher to manipulate a child student. Hopefully she'll wise up at some point.

 

[munchie64]

You guys gotta realise how fucking boring mussels would be for a tv audience.
It was just another thing that bogged GRRM down in those books imo, I'm glad it's gone.

 

[The Smoking Bun]

Just finished the chapter where Arya gets sent out to become Cat of the Canals. Man. A full Arya training season would be cool as shit. Every episode a new name, exploring a new aspect of Braavos. Like a procedural but also with a thread through line, like she keeps encountering the skinny man and killing him is the final ep.

Man. How great could that be.

MAN.

Sounds like a CW show honestly and I mean that in the best way.
I think Jaquen H'gar's actor fits the looks department for CW

If you think about it, George Martin did DOLLHOUSE before Whedon ever thought of it

 

[eot]

Surprised there's no Sansa comparison pic yet.

Longer one

 

[Basileus777]

Just seeing these comparison images is making me lose brain cells.

 

[Lothar]

That right side does not even capture the ridiculousness of it. You have to add "Immediately after the attack, he sends Davos to go get supplies and doesn't wait for him to come back. As soon as Davos is gone, in an attempt to appease the lord of light, he..."

 

[Ape Gone Insane]

Feel like I've stumbled onto a Tumblr newsfeed.

 

[The Smoking Bun]

I have a question, every single person in Arya's list is despicable or evil in one way or another.
Would it have been interesting for one of her potential victims to be "noble" or a nobody and he/she is in the list only by pure chance, because they work for the Lannisters?

Because the rest are like, they actively enjoy harming people.

 

[Pyramid head]

That right side does not even capture the ridiculousness of it. You have to add "Immediately after the attack, he sends Davos to go get supplies and doesn't wait for him to come back. As soon as Davos is gone, in an attempt to appease the lord of light, he..."

"20 good men burned all of the supplies which were, for some reason, going un-eaten despite the army starving to death..."

 

[Real Hero]

I have a question, every single person in Arya's list is despicable or evil in one way or another.
Would it have been interesting for one of her potential victims to be "noble" or a nobody and he/she is in the list only by pure chance, because they work for the Lannisters?

Because the rest are like, they actively enjoy harming people.

Not on her list but she killed Dareon. He was a massive dick but he wasn't exactly evil. I think it's a safe bet she will lend up killing someone 'good' at some point both in the books and the show.

 

[duckroll]

I have a question, every single person in Arya's list is despicable or evil in one way or another.
Would it have been interesting for one of her potential victims to be "noble" or a nobody and he/she is in the list only by pure chance, because they work for the Lannisters?

Because the rest are like, they actively enjoy harming people.

The people on her list are people who specifically did terrible things to her or people she cared about, so it'll be pretty hard to be a good person and get on that list by accident. There's Ilyn Payne though, who got on the list for executing Ned Stark and it could be argued he was only doing his job. Of course on the show his name has been removed from the list because they are unlikely to return to the character again.

 

[Werd]

I have a question, every single person in Arya's list is despicable or evil in one way or another.
Would it have been interesting for one of her potential victims to be "noble" or a nobody and he/she is in the list only by pure chance, because they work for the Lannisters?

Because the rest are like, they actively enjoy harming people.

Never happens in the books obviously, but in the show she does add Beric and Thoros for selling Gendry to Melisandre. Not by chance or the nicest thing to do, but a nightly death wish might be a bit harsh.

 

[The Smoking Bun]

Not on her list but she killed Dareon. He was a massive dick but he wasn't exactly evil. I think it's a safe bet she will lend up killing someone 'good' at some point both in the books and the show.

Good point. Though I feel the show will try to turn the moment into another "SHOCKER"
Getting the audience to hate Arya would be one hell of an achievement

The people on her list are people who specifically did terrible things to her or people she cared about, so it'll be pretty hard to be a good person and get on that list by accident. There's Ilyn Payne though, who got on the list for executing Ned Stark and it could be argued he was only doing his job. Of course on the show his name has been removed from the list because they are unlikely to return to the character again.

Yeah, Ilyn's Payne only crime was that he looked "villainous" and was a mute.
Arguably the Hound should have been on her list as well and sort of was

Never happens in the books obviously, but in the show she does add Beric and Thoros for selling Gendry to Melisandre. Not by chance or the nicest thing to do, but a nightly death wish might be a bit harsh.

Right, forgot about Beric & Thoros. Though we will probably never see them again

 

[Paganmoon]

Was Stannis'

Spoiler

fake?

Lightbringer ever in the show?

Yeah, iirc, in Season 2, burns the effigy's of the seven and "forges" lightbringer from the fire. Or did they burn someone as well? Anyway, yeah, it was in the show, not mentioned since iirc.

 

[Dusk Soldier]

That right side does not even capture the ridiculousness of it. You have to add "Immediately after the attack, he sends Davos to go get supplies and doesn't wait for him to come back. As soon as Davos is gone, in an attempt to appease the lord of light, he..."

It's pretty obvious that he sent Davos away so that he couldn't interfere with Shireen's ritual.

He didn't actually want supplies.

 

[Zabka]

"20 good men burned all of the supplies which were, for some reason, going un-eaten despite the army starving to death..."

really now

 

[Jigorath]

Just seeing these comparison images is making me lose brain cells.

I know, I can't believe how much they fucked up this season too.

 

[Judderman]

"20 good men burned all of the supplies which were, for some reason, going un-eaten despite the army starving to death..."

Oh come on...

 

[Pyramid head]

really now

I'm aping the style of those picture but yeah, the show has done an absolutely dogshit job of communicating how 'dire' Stannis's circumstances are supposed to be.

Only a couple of days journey from the wall.

No real sense that any substantial amount of time has passed.

They still had supplies or else why would burning empty crates be such a disaster?

They still had supplies so why were they starving to death?

Stannis has weathered worse without killing his only heir.

Why not just push on to Winterfell? The journey can't have been that insurmountable if 2O good men and 1 lunatic can nip there and back in a jiffy.

No-one has seen a winter in a decade so just how are Ramsay's good men able to so easily outclass Stannis's troops, who incidenly are fresh from carrying out a successful attack north of the wall so should be better acclimatised to the conditions.

 

[Zabka]

If you're starving you ration your food so it lasts longer.

 

[Showaddy]

No way are a bunch of foreign sell swords better acclimatised to the North than actual Northerners just because they had one cavalry charge in decent conditions. The shows been saying for years that Southerners don't do well in the North.

Why 20 men can struggle their way through a blizzard but why a whole army with equipment and supply trains can't is just obvious.

 

[Pyramid head]

No way are a bunch of foreign sell swords better acclimatised to the North just because they had one little cavalry charge in decent conditions. The shows been saying for years that Southerners don't do well in the North.

Why 20 men can fight through a blizzard but a whole army with equipment and supply trains can't is just obvious.

Well they were lightened of their equiptment and supply trains so it might have been worth a punt to push on before resorting to burning your daughter to death.

 

[Showaddy]

Well they were lightened of their equiptment and supply trains so it might have been worth a punt to push on before resorting to burning your daughter to death.

They got lightened of their siege weapons and food apparently, that's about it. They still had most of their horses, weapons, armour and everything else a professional army contains dragging them down.

This whole burning thing was rushed and poorly earnt but it did make sense.

 

[NeoGiff]

Longer one

 

[Pyramid head]

They got lightened of their siege weapons and food apparently, that's about it. They still had most of their horses, weapons, armour and everything else a professional army contains dragging them down.

This whole burning thing was rushed and poorly earnt but it did make sense.

'Poorly earnt' is exactly what I'm talking about. I don't care that they killed Shireen, they just could have shown a little more than a shot of a soldier coughing and Stannis with uncombed hair to communicate how bad their situation was.

 

[bengraven]

Preview gif I saw on Reddit labeled as

Spoiler

"Stannis is still the Mannis!"

SPOILERS

 

[Woody Invincible]

This whole burning thing was rushed and poorly earnt but it did make sense.

Only in this tread would burning your daughter make sense.

 

[NeoGiff]

Preview gif I saw on Reddit labeled as

Spoiler

"Stannis is still the Mannis!"

SPOILERS

You just know that

Spoiler

Ramsay, the leader of the Twenty Good Men, will stick him with an arrow

right after that shot.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Preview gif I saw on Reddit labeled as

Spoiler

"Stannis is still the Mannis!"

SPOILERS

Spoiler

dat aint no lightbringer

 

[MBison]

Do we actually think there's a chance Lady Stoneheart shows up? I know there were a few IMDb spoilers and such that hinted at it but still hard to believe they would wait so long after Cat's death.

 

[Atraveller]

It's also hard to believe that Balon is still alive.

 

[Basileus777]

It's also hard to believe that Balonnis still alive.

But it makes perfect sense not to kill off Balon until it's relevant, which is when Euron is introduced.

 

[CitizenVectron]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";167632509]

Spoiler

dat aint no lightbringer

[/QUOTE]

Yeah I'm wondering why he hasn't had lightbringer recently, especially with Melisendre around to make her trickery.

 

[Massa]

It's pretty obvious that he sent Davos away so that he couldn't interfere with Shireen's ritual.

He didn't actually want supplies.

That's an excellent point. There's no way Jon would send him supplies and Stannis knew that.

 

[mugoldeneagle03]

Do we actually think there's a chance Lady Stoneheart shows up? I know there were a few IMDb spoilers and such that hinted at it but still hard to believe they would wait so long after Cat's death.

I just don't know how they'd be able to change certain character arc's without her. I want to believe! I've actually read quite a bit of people thinking they will essentially turn

Spoiler

Sansa

into her, which would be...Weird.

 

[Iksenpets]

Do we actually think there's a chance Lady Stoneheart shows up? I know there were a few IMDb spoilers and such that hinted at it but still hard to believe they would wait so long after Cat's death.

It is 100% not happening. The surest sign that any "spoilers" are just trolling is if they mention Stoneheart.

Preview gif I saw on Reddit labeled as

Spoiler

"Stannis is still the Mannis!"

SPOILERS

Spoiler

It's going to be really weird if the story is still supposed to go in a fairly "Mannis" direction, and D&D just wanted to add ~complexity~ by having him burn Shireen, so we have to sit through a season of Stannis heroically winning that no one cares about because he's a monster.

 

[LordCanti]

Preview gif I saw on Reddit labeled as

Spoiler

"Stannis is still the Mannis!"

SPOILERS

It's like the

Spoiler

Dany "Why haven't we seen your dragons?" "CGI is expensive!" meme all over again except with fake Lightbringer.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Yeah I'm wondering why he hasn't had lightbringer recently, especially with Melisendre around to make her trickery.

Because it isn't a relevant plot point in the show canon.

 

[Ape Gone Insane]

I don't think a sword on fire would require vast amounts of expensive CGI.

 

[bengraven]

You just know that

Spoiler

Ramsay, the leader of the Twenty Good Men, will stick him with an arrow

right after that shot.

God, he's going to win isn't he? *sigh* I just give up. I'd rather they both die than Ramsay survive. Frankly I'd rather they both die anyway so we can move right the fuck along.



Any bets on what the closing dragon roar is going to be?

 

[Brakke]

Any bets on what the closing dragon roar is going to be?

He's hungry. He hears a call from afar, his ears prick up. OYSTERS CLAMS AND COCKLES. Dany blanches. "BUT WHERE AHR MUH MUSSELS??" Drogon screams.