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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 5 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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Star Wars.
Obliterator
Member
Jons Azor Ahai. He has to be. I know sometimes its cool to hide stuff or it be a big twist, and I know most people WANT for Jon to be Azor Ahai, but it just makes sense.
I want to see mother fucking Jon Snow mowing down White Walkers / Others. Is that too much to ask?
Dreamwriter
Member
One thing about Myrcella's poisoning (from someone not caught up in the books): she was poisoned with a kiss. Right before she died she kissed Jaimie. Perhaps Jaimie is going to die from the poison...
And I thought Sansa and Theon were committing suicide to avoid life with Ramsey, that scene was not done well at all.
And I thought Sansa and Theon were committing suicide to avoid life with Ramsey, that scene was not done well at all.
Brienne's journey in book four is a device used to show the reader the impact the war has had on the kingdom the kings are so consumed with ruling. So much of the book is seen from the perspective of the ruling class or at least their battlegrounds and castles, but Brienne and Pod are witness to just how fucked everything is for all of the poor in Westeros. This is especially fitting because Brienne herself has already spoken about how the horrors of war are remembered so beautifully in the tales that will be told. She seems to understand that the honor that comes from serving in battle is in the way it is remembered.
During this journey, she gets first hand knowledge of those things that are seldom spoken about, and obviously never appear in songs. She begins book four reluctant to hurt people outside of honorable combat and near the end she is in tears while stabbing a man who brags about rape.
People who find Brienne's story boring because she's "on the wrong path" don't seem to understand that her purpose is to illustrate that the entire kingdom is, essentially, heading down the wrong path. And that perhaps there isn't even a right way for people this poor and forgotten.
Or did you mean on the show?
Because she definitely doesn't have one on the show.
Wait, has someone on the production side said otherwise? Is there a statement out that they were actually intending that to be their escape?
Citizen_Insane
Member
I'm in shock at how bad that episode was. Holy shit.
Like, what the fuck?
Like, what the fuck?
Dudes I really liked it. There were a lot of problems for sure -- how did Brienne find Stan?? -- but most of it worked dramatically.
The horsemen falling on the Baratheon host looked awesome, great storyboarding there. And "do your duty" are great last words for Stan. Stannis's arc the last several episodes isn't the one I wanted but I thought it basically worked. Totally hubris. Total resignation to defeat. Also Mel's performance, preening and then being terrified and confused and lost was great.
I joked a lot about Ellaria and Jaime but that scene followed by Myrcerlla biting it really got to me. "Bad pussy" was terrible but whatever that's one dumb line.
The walk of Shame shattered my soul, bros. That was unlike anything I've ever seen on film before. Reminded me of Ros's death, in that that was something that will absolutely stick with me.
"For the watch" worked. I want more time spent there but it's not like that was confusing or anything. It's very obvious why they killed Jon. And Thorne and Olly, idiots though they be, sold that decision being complicated. Jon and Sam last conversation was fun!
Meereen was solid. I just want Varys and Tyrion to kiss <3. Also they set up a solid plan but there was clearly heavy irony there. They laid out a plan that makes sense out loud but is obviously a Tall Fucking Order to execute, and everyone there knew that.
I've been saying all along and it's true: Dany encountering the Khalisar was pretty valid. Just doesn't mean anything. The stakes and motives there are totally unclear.
I dunno. I would have done a lot of things differently for sure. But this ep brought a lot of things to the table that left me sincerely reeling.
The horsemen falling on the Baratheon host looked awesome, great storyboarding there. And "do your duty" are great last words for Stan. Stannis's arc the last several episodes isn't the one I wanted but I thought it basically worked. Totally hubris. Total resignation to defeat. Also Mel's performance, preening and then being terrified and confused and lost was great.
I joked a lot about Ellaria and Jaime but that scene followed by Myrcerlla biting it really got to me. "Bad pussy" was terrible but whatever that's one dumb line.
The walk of Shame shattered my soul, bros. That was unlike anything I've ever seen on film before. Reminded me of Ros's death, in that that was something that will absolutely stick with me.
"For the watch" worked. I want more time spent there but it's not like that was confusing or anything. It's very obvious why they killed Jon. And Thorne and Olly, idiots though they be, sold that decision being complicated. Jon and Sam last conversation was fun!
Meereen was solid. I just want Varys and Tyrion to kiss <3. Also they set up a solid plan but there was clearly heavy irony there. They laid out a plan that makes sense out loud but is obviously a Tall Fucking Order to execute, and everyone there knew that.
I've been saying all along and it's true: Dany encountering the Khalisar was pretty valid. Just doesn't mean anything. The stakes and motives there are totally unclear.
I dunno. I would have done a lot of things differently for sure. But this ep brought a lot of things to the table that left me sincerely reeling.
Almost every season D&D single out a location to serve as that season's contained setting. Generally they tie pretty solidly with the rest of the plot. They dropped the ball with Dorne this season.
Season 2: Iron Islands (culminates with Theon betraying Robb)
Season 3: Riverrun (culminates with the Red Wedding)
Season 5: Dorne (culminates with Bronn getting bit by bad pussy)
You know if Jon Snow is actually perma dead, the only hero left that can have a significant impact that I want to cheer for is Bran.
Tyrion is awesome but the political games won't be end game.
Not like Arya is going to assassinate the Night King.
Dany sucks.
That leaves just Bran.
Tyrion is awesome but the political games won't be end game.
Not like Arya is going to assassinate the Night King.
Dany sucks.
That leaves just Bran.
So from what I've gathered, the TV show completed and totally fucked up this season and has basically thrown away any meaning to the story.
Am I right book readers?
Seriously
This season was pretty fucking pathetic
Am I right book readers?
Seriously
This season was pretty fucking pathetic
Obliterator
Member
I think the best thing for Azor Ahai is for it to be referencing BOTH Dany and Jon. Thus the Song of Ice and Fire
I completely disagree with that indictment.
That was their escape. What do you mean?
bishopcruz
Member
Jamie's arc in AFFC was amazing. Y'know a story with actual character growth as he tries to come to terms with not being able to do what he was best at any more. Having to become a general while still living up to his vows. Becoming an actual commander of the Kingsguard at the same time? Slowly coming to realize that his relationship with Cersei was toxic?
Instead let's send him to Dorne in the most stupid way possible, and also completely screw up his character. To be fair, Jamie started going downhill last season as a result of them bringing him back to KL too early, but still... what he had in the books was MILES ahead of what we got here, LSH or no.
m_shortpants
Member
The best episode of this season was about something that isn't even shown in the books.
Take that how you will.
The rest of the plotlines are "half-book, half-show" and have odd twists to them that lead to them feeling incongruent.
I am surprised that we didn't get a "fire and blood" reveal from Doran, though. It would've been nice to see Doran actually do something, and that would've been a nice twist considering they'd basically depicted him as a collaborator all season, and it would be a good build into next season. Ellaria getting some comeuppance that way would've been a plus too. I guess they didn't think they had the framework built in within Quentyn or Illyrio.
vas_a_morir
Banned
Fuck the watch. I hope the White Walkers fuck those rapist ingrates up. Jon saved their lives and was working to save millions more. But nooooooo.... This Chief O'Brien-looking sonuvabitch... what a cockmaster. And that little snot-nosed brit bastard Olly, too.
Absolutely not. If anything the show runners are trying to save us from thousands of pages of boredom.
Episode 8 of this season was better than anything in books 4 or 5.
The difference in their power levels would create a black hole that kills everyone. Except Danny and Tyrion because plot armor.
Shuggananas
Banned
bullshit she didn't, she just hugged jaime
They're going to count Night's Watch members among thousands of wildlings from 300 feet above?
It wasn't just because Jon let wildlings through the wall. Jon himself mentions it while talking to Sam. Sacrificing Night's Watchmen in the process was the last straw.
I think it's Jon and Dany. The combination of the two fulfill the prophecy pretty well.
Both of them would technically qualify for being reborn by salt and smoke ( one by ice, one by fire ) if Jon gets resurrected. Then you can interpret the other signs from there.
TheKaeptain
Banned
IDK man.
WrenchNinja
Member
Yes.
I guess I misinterpreted something. The way I read the thing I was quoting, I thought it was saying that the producers were claiming it wasn't a suicide attempt. (Which is what I thought it was when watching the episode.) If that is the case -- if it was in fact a calculated effort on the parts of Sansa and Theon to escape Winterfell alive and intact -- then I wanted to know, so that I could adjust my perception of the scene.
Lol yeah. That's my number one sticking point with the books. A little bit of irony (this character thinks this this matters but it doesn't actually because literally all of human existence hangs in the balance!!) is fine, but literally every single thread save one cast under the same ironic light is just boring / nihilistic to the point of absurd.
Nah, it was ok.
Worst thing for me is it was a hell of a lot less enjoyable than books 4 and 5 just because they took almost all the positive things from books 4 and 5 out and added so much horribleness. 2 brand new RW events for example. Was Stannis burning Shireen really needed? Especially if Stannis dies in the next episode, that was so damn pointless. Why did we need to see that? How did that make the show better in any way?
Obliterator
Member
Yeah I agree, I made a second post saying that. Jon and Dany both being Azor Ahai makes the end game epic as fuck. Those two vs Other / White Walkers is all I've ever wanted really. Everything else is nice and cool, but at the end THAT is what I want to see
bishopcruz
Member
Here's the question, do you care about themes and characterization? Then yes, you are totally right.
Do you care about cool battles and shit? Then no, this show totally was better than the books because STUFF TOTALLY HAPPENED!!! All that books stuff wasn't endgame worthy anyhow.
You were meant to think they were jumping off a wall to get away from Ramsay. Whether they lived, died, got captured again, whatever is not important.
What is important is that they didn't try to kill themselves.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Just got done watching...cliffhangers galore. Kinda pissed off tbh.
brownfedora
Member
I understand their purpose but they were still a snoozefest and almost turned me off to the series. Just because I found her book 4 chapters boring doesn't mean I need moar action. They just weren't well executed at all.
And BTW I'm not suggesting that having her camp out outside Winterfell is any better.
Going forward this show badly needs to replace all their directors because there has been so many directorial choices in this season that were either errors or purposefully obfuscating to the point of extreme annoyance.
- Grey Worm saving Selmy from having his neck slit, seemingly saving his life, only to have Selmy be actually dead in the next episode.
- Theon and Sansa jumping into the snow to escape, but from such a height that people wonder if they committed suicide.
- Jon 'dying'.
- Grey Worm saving Selmy from having his neck slit, seemingly saving his life, only to have Selmy be actually dead in the next episode.
- Theon and Sansa jumping into the snow to escape, but from such a height that people wonder if they committed suicide.
- Jon 'dying'.
If I remember the show correctly from that episode I wouldn't even bet that there were 200 people combined left. Also, they could've asked Jon to come in first, explain himself, then kill him. Instead, they let the gate wide open and allowed everyone through and then killed Jon like weeks later.
People who thought Sansa would step up and shank someone haven't been watching this show and certainly never read the books. Just a bunch of Stansas.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
This is a great post and mostly gets to my point -- even in the books she is only ever a walking/talking framing device for the audience. Even if we the reader understand the reason we walk with her through the kingdom, that doesn't make her a great character.
Now consider how they've handled her character on the show. Odd they would keep her around just to have her steward Jaime to handlessness, fail to save Arya, fail to save Sansa, and then maybe kill Stannis. So I'm not saying she's pointless, but I am saying it does seem like they're saving something a bit more meaningful for her.
It's just that every righteously naive character is dispatched so brutally is all. No idea what they'll do with her now.
Obliterator
Member
Well this is a complete mystery in the books as well so it can't really be blamed on the directing. No one besides Martin and D&D know if Jon is alive or dead
brownfedora
Member
It shows the lengths Stannis will go. It's not really that hard to understand. And it looks like it will happen in the books too.
Don't get this argument at all.
I see. Makes sense. More or less what I thought, really; the "suicide" angle was just a matter of my figuring that neither of them is blind and surely they recognize the odds are not exactly in favor of their surviving.
m_shortpants
Member
Look at it this way, there are show-only watchers in the other thread commenting how "Nothing happened in Dorne" and how it seemed pointless.
Says it all, really.
Says it all, really.
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
The inside HBO stuff made it pretty obvious that Stannis is alive and that Jon is coming back. Neither of them got separate videos like most major events/deaths do, while Myracella got one instead.
Also, they dance around saying Stannis is dead. Lots of talk about how he was ready to die and how Brienne came to kill him, but they never outright stated he was killed unlike Myracella and Jon. They even set up why Brienne would let him live by talking about how she expected a monster but found a broken man. Its the same thing they did last year with the Hound's "death".
So for the running tally:
Also, they dance around saying Stannis is dead. Lots of talk about how he was ready to die and how Brienne came to kill him, but they never outright stated he was killed unlike Myracella and Jon. They even set up why Brienne would let him live by talking about how she expected a monster but found a broken man. Its the same thing they did last year with the Hound's "death".
So for the running tally:
- To be resurrected: the Mountain, Jon Snow
- Secretly Alive: The Hound, Stannis
- Deader than Dead: Myracella, Stannis's wife, Ramsey's Lover
- MIA: Everyone on Gendry's Boat tour of Westeros
- LOL: Benjen
The same could be said for those who thought Olly wouldn't stab Jon.
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