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[badcrumble]

Damn, guess i need to read these books more than once.

It doesn't happen "onscreen" as it were. Varys tells Kevan that he just finished murdering Pycelle shortly before he shoots him too. Obviously plenty of secondhand knowledge in the books can't be taken to be 100% gospel (see all the rumors of Davos's death), but given that Varys (1) has no reason to lie to a man he's in the process of assassinating (2) has no reason to lie about killing Pycelle in particular (3) gives a big old monologue about his general intentions, it's pretty safe to say that Pycelle's dead at the end of ADWD.

 

[biosnake20]

Qyburn is so good on the show.

 

[Ramma2]

It doesn't happen "onscreen" as it were. Varys tells Kevan that he just finished murdering Pycelle shortly before he shoots him too. Obviously plenty of secondhand knowledge in the books can't be taken to be 100% gospel (see all the rumors of Davos's death), but given that Varys (1) has no reason to lie to a man he's in the process of assassinating (2) has no reason to lie about killing Pycelle in particular (3) gives a big old monologue about his general intentions, it's pretty safe to say that Pycelle's dead at the end of ADWD.

Yeah he's super dead, I just finished the 5th book and have the ebook here:

"Then he saw. Grand Maester Pycelle was seated at his table, his head pillowed on the great leather-bound tome before him. Sleeping, Kevan thought … until he blinked and saw the deep red gash in the old man’s spotted skull and the blood pooled beneath his head, staining the pages of his book. All around his candle were bits of bone and brain, islands in a lake of melted wax."

 

[BobTheFork]

Yes



via awoiaf

I thought the 'requests for moon tea' was a lie? That makes it sound like it's true. Maybe I'm mistaken?

 

[badcrumble]

Yeah he's super dead, I just finished the 5th book and have the ebook here:

"Then he saw. Grand Maester Pycelle was seated at his table, his head pillowed on the great leather-bound tome before him. Sleeping, Kevan thought … until he blinked and saw the deep red gash in the old man’s spotted skull and the blood pooled beneath his head, staining the pages of his book. All around his candle were bits of bone and brain, islands in a lake of melted wax."

Whoops, my bad. You're right, he *is* shown dead. It's been a while since I read it.

I thought the 'requests for moon tea' was a lie? That makes it sound like it's true. Maybe I'm mistaken?

Thanks to POV stuff, it's never totally clear how true or untrue a lot of the accusations against Margaery are. She's way more of a cipher in the books than she is on the show.

 

[Brakke]

Qyburn is so good on the show.

[High Septon Acknowledging small council members] "...Lord Tyrell and urhhm uhh"

[Qyburn] "It doesn't matter."

lmao so cold. You don't need to know my name because you're about to get bopped and you'll never see me again.

 

[CassSept]

I thought the 'requests for moon tea' was a lie? That makes it sound like it's true. Maybe I'm mistaken?

Wasn't it made apparent in a late KL ADWD chapter (I want to say last Cersei chapter/epilogue) that Margaery isn't a virgin. "Horse riding" bs aside it was fascinating because that could prove Cersei was not completely delusional.

E: bah I type too slow on mmobile

 

[Moff]

what is going on here? varys dead? no way, he and littlefinger will be there till last season. they are the guys who control everything from start to finish, although they probably won't see the end.

 

[Brakke]

I thought the 'requests for moon tea' was a lie? That makes it sound like it's true. Maybe I'm mistaken?

I can't remember specifically if Margaery got moon tea from Pycelle but she was definitely sleeping around in the books and definitely wasn't a stranger to moon tea.

 

[eot]

Wasn't it made apparent in a late KL ADWD chapter (I want to say last Cersei chapter/epilogue) that Margaery isn't a virgin. "Horse riding" bs aside it was fascinating because that could prove Cersei was not completely delusional.

E: bah I type too slow on mmobile

The horse riding thing isn't BS.

 

[badcrumble]

I can't remember specifically if Margaery got moon tea from Pycelle but she was definitely sleeping around in the books and definitely wasn't a stranger to moon tea.

I don't think we have real confirmation of this.

 

[Kain]

I don't think we have real confirmation of this.

Yep, the thing about Marg is that Cersei suspects she is a whore but no one but her thinks the same. I think that Pycelle talking about the moon tea is something he said just to make Cersei happy. Or he was afraid, probably both.

In fact it reminds me of Robert and Rhaegar, how everyone idolizes the Targaryen man but him. That makes Cersei very similar to Robert and the irony is so big it can't be coincidential.

That said, Marg may in fact be a whore, but we don't know because the only point of view for two books in King's Landing is Cersei's, and she is a very unreliable POV.

 

[Ratrat]

Yep, the thing about Marg is that Cersei suspects she is a whore but no one but her thinks the same. I think that Pycelle talking about the moon tea is something he said just to make Cersei happy. Or he was afraid, probably both.

She asks him why he's seeing Margy and he just makes up a lie that could get her killed? He'd be dead if she is in fact was a virgin.

 

[Kain]

She asks him why he's seeing Margy and he just makes up a lie that could get her killed? He'd be dead if she is in fact was a virgin.

Well, he could be trying to please her because he is a Lannister dog after all. And I would guess proving she is a virgin is... difficult. They make a point in the books that she likes to ride. A lot.

But I don't know, I guess we'll know sooner or later.

 

[hipsterpants]

Just watched the Red Wedding. What was the general of opinion of show Robb vs. book Robb? I know he had to age up along with everyone else, but I thought kid in over his head Robb was much more sympathetic than idiot adult Robb. In the books I felt bad for him and his wife but in this I thought they pretty much did it to themselves with their true love nonsense lol.

Also the part where Roose has that shit-eating grin and Catelyn lifts up his sleeve to reveal armor has to be my favorite scene in the whole series so far.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

Just watched the Red Wedding. What was the general of opinion of show Robb vs. book Robb? I know he had to age up along with everyone else, but I thought kid in over his head Robb was much more sympathetic than idiot adult Robb. In the books I felt bad for him and his wife but in this I thought they pretty much did it to themselves with their true love nonsense lol.

Show Robb was an awful character.

 

[beato_angelico]

I can't believe they cut all tyrion journey to volantis. that was probably the thing I was expecting the most. I know nowdays there is more stuff that is changed compared to the stuff that is taken straight from the books, but I'm still disappointed.

 

[Timbuktu]

Just watched the Red Wedding. What was the general of opinion of show Robb vs. book Robb? I know he had to age up along with everyone else, but I thought kid in over his head Robb was much more sympathetic than idiot adult Robb. In the books I felt bad for him and his wife but in this I thought they pretty much did it to themselves with their true love nonsense lol.

I think Oona Chaplin's looks made it make a bit more sense, but at the same time it always feels that she is playing Robb, rather than it being youthful first love or whatever.

I'm ok with the adult Roob's acting, but the books having him 'off screen' winning battles would always be more impressive then having him actually there and they have to make up some stuff for his scenes. I did have a horrifying flashback to the red wedding a weeks ago when I had to watch Robb as the prince in Cinderella with my gf.

 

[Ganzlinger]

Just watched the Red Wedding. What was the general of opinion of show Robb vs. book Robb?

They are different, but I don't have a preference here. Both are good enough for me. But iirc show Robb was popular, especially among the non-readers who thought him as one of the big protagonists.

 

[Moff]

madden is pretty attractive, I think he was quite popular. I didnt like robb both in the books and the show, though. the reason why reading the red wedding was devastating was not because I liked him but simply because he was the leader of the last good guys.

 

[suzu]

I miss Richard Madden's beautiful face.

 

[adamsappel]

Also the part where Roose has that shit-eating grin and Catelyn lifts up his sleeve to reveal armor has to be my favorite scene in the whole series so far.

I love that scene. He's like, "Go on, take a look."

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Just watched the Red Wedding. What was the general of opinion of show Robb vs. book Robb? I know he had to age up along with everyone else, but I thought kid in over his head Robb was much more sympathetic than idiot adult Robb. In the books I felt bad for him and his wife but in this I thought they pretty much did it to themselves with their true love nonsense lol.

Also the part where Roose has that shit-eating grin and Catelyn lifts up his sleeve to reveal armor has to be my favorite scene in the whole series so far.

I had less sympathy for show Robb. He was basically like "Screw my vowels, lets fuck! LOL"

Book Robb did it in a moment of weakness, and then his honor got the best of him.

 

[kirblar]

I can't believe they cut all tyrion journey to volantis. that was probably the thing I was expecting the most. I know nowdays there is more stuff that is changed compared to the stuff that is taken straight from the books, but I'm still disappointed.

Tyrion's book storyline is/was completely unfilmable as-is.

 

[beato_angelico]

Tyrion's book storyline is/was completely unfilmable as-is.

yes, with a season 1 budget. now they chose not to, which is fine, just disappointing for me personally.

 

[Brakke]

I had less sympathy for show Robb. He was basically like "Screw my vowels, lets fuck! LOL"

Book Robb did it in a moment of weakness, and then his honor got the best of him.

scrw m vwls t!!!

 

[Speevy]

I miss Catelyn. Brave, stupid woman.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

scrw m vwls t!!!

haha, oops

 

[kirblar]

yes, with a season 1 budget. now they chose not to, which is fine, just disappointing for me personally.

Budget has nothing to do with it.

 

[NeoGiff]

I love that scene. He's like, "Go on, take a look."

You can actually pinpoint the exact moment the Roose got loose.

I miss Catelyn. Brave, stupid woman.

It's a pity that her character was horrendously written in Season 3 (not to mention beforehand). Shoved into the background in most of the scenes she appears in.

 

[Speevy]

Well, her name was Oona. That's a lot of vowels.

 

[Iksenpets]

yes, with a season 1 budget. now they chose not to, which is fine, just disappointing for me personally.

It's not a matter of budget so much as time. They couldn't have fit in Penny and Moqorro and him and Jorah finding a boat and all of that and still get him to Meereen by the end of the season. I'm surprised by the amount of Volantis we got, to be honest. An explanation of Volantene slavery, a shot of the Red Priestess ministering to the slaves, that's a lot of world building that was hey totally could have cut without any damage to the plot.

Also, random thought: do you think with the High Septon "imprisoned" that he could end up as one of Qyburn's victims? I'd like it if they could work in the plot about Cersei letting him experiment on prisoners.

 

[Brakke]

Budget definitely matters some. You're seeing a lot of Volantis because once you've done the costume and production design work, built sets -- practically and digitally -- and all that kind of shit, you oughta get some use out of that work. I suppose we had a Sansa and Littlefinger take an overlook of Moat Cailin in order to squeeze a bit more out of creating that model.

Tyrion's Dance arc would require a bunch of totally new regular cast members, a boat set, a bunch of sets on the way, etc etc etc. It'd be expensive. Which would be fine if it wasn't also *totally fucken boring*. So if your options are "spend a bunch of money on a boring storyline filled with new faces and one-off sets" or "play two popular sharp-wit characters off each other in sets that are super small or that get re-used" then obviously you recreate Tyrion's trek to Dany.

 

[AngmarsKing701]

HOLY SHIT just watch ep3, that was the kindest episode to the Starks for a LONG while, i almost cried when Sansa entered Winterfell, and the old maid said 'Welcome back, Lady Stark. The north remembers". No joke, i almost teared up. And then Jon Snow following the lesson taught by his father, just like Rob before him, god damn amazing. So much focus on them im loving season 5 so far.

I cannot stand Bolton, the North remembers as do i, fuck him and his son. But, i know whatever happens, the Starks will be dealt another blow I feel its going to hurt deep this season.

FYI I don't think that was Winterfell. I think she's in Moat Cailin. The North yes but not home.

 

[Brazil]

It's a pity that her character was horrendously written in Season 3 (not to mention beforehand). Shoved into the background in most of the scenes she appears in.

I hadn't read the books until after season 2. I hated her character with all my strength.

After reading the books, my impression of her did a complete 180º. When Stoneheart showed up I freaking jumped in joy.

 

[CrocMother]

Budget definitely matters some. You're seeing a lot of Volantis because once you've done the costume and production design work, built sets -- practically and digitally -- and all that kind of shit, you oughta get some use out of that work. I suppose we had a Sansa and Littlefinger take an overlook of Moat Cailin in order to squeeze a bit more out of creating that model.

Tyrion's Dance arc would require a bunch of totally new regular cast members, a boat set, a bunch of sets on the way, etc etc etc. It'd be expensive. Which would be fine if it wasn't also *totally fucken boring*. So if your options are "spend a bunch of money on a boring storyline filled with new faces and one-off sets" or "play two popular sharp-wit characters off each other in sets that are super small or that get re-used" then obviously you recreate Tyrion's trek to Dany.

Interesting point. Never thought about them cutting material from a financial perspective.

 

[kirblar]

FYI I don't think that was Winterfell. I think she's in Moat Cailin. The North yes but not home.

It's Winterfell, Moat Cailin is a cesspool.

 

[CrocMother]

It's a pity that her character was horrendously written in Season 3 (not to mention beforehand). Shoved into the background in most of the scenes she appears in.

I thought her character was hideously written in the book, too. I couldn't wait for her and Rob Stark to die in the show so we could move past their pointless plot lines.

Also really glad LSH was cut. Cat was my least fav character in the book and show.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

I thought her character was hideously written in the book, too. I couldn't wait for her and Rob Stark to die in the show so we could move past their pointless plot lines.

I see...

 

[-griffy-]

FYI I don't think that was Winterfell. I think she's in Moat Cailin. The North yes but not home.

They traveled through Moat Cailin on the way to Winterfell. Brienne says they'll have to go around to follow Sansa and Littlefinger because of the swamp land, but Pod is worried about losing them. Brienne replies that she knows where they are headed.

 

[Massa]

Just watched the Red Wedding. What was the general of opinion of show Robb vs. book Robb? I know he had to age up along with everyone else, but I thought kid in over his head Robb was much more sympathetic than idiot adult Robb. In the books I felt bad for him and his wife but in this I thought they pretty much did it to themselves with their true love nonsense lol.

Also the part where Roose has that shit-eating grin and Catelyn lifts up his sleeve to reveal armor has to be my favorite scene in the whole series so far.

Idiot adult Robb? Like father, like son I guess.

 

[Steelyuhas]

They traveled through Moat Cailin on the way to Winterfell. Brienne says they'll have to go around to follow Sansa and Littlefinger because of the swamp land, but Pod is worried about losing them. Brienne replies that she knows where they are headed.

Yeah they went to Winterfell, but it seems like they should have had more of an establishing shot for it, cause there seemed to be quite a bit of confusion about it.

 

[Madness]

I have a feeling seeing as how Margaery really took off in the television, and how GRRM never really utilized her in books, he's going to give her a much bigger role going forward. That's my one issue. The show will influence a lot of his books. For example, look at the response Osha had in television compared to books. When she inevitably returns with Rickon story, you just know how she was in television will subconsciously affect him no?

 

[hipsterpants]

Idiot adult Robb? Like father, like son I guess.

At least Ned had a reason for his idiocy. With Robb they just transplanted the screw-ups of a 16 year old boy-king to a guy ten years older and it doesn't work. Though considering how everyone got so upset at the red wedding it must have worked for a lot of people :x.

On the flip side show Roose is way more awesome than book Roose, and I can't really say why.

 

[Burt]

Interesting point. Never thought about them cutting material from a financial perspective.

They do stretch their budget a lot by reusing scenery like that though. First time I noticed it was a few scenes in the Red Keep. I think it was Arya's dancing lesson room being the same as Robert's room, maybe Cersei's. Given the layout, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Volantis courtyard with the priestess was the same they used for the courtyard below the ramparts in KL season 2 where Brommand the Hound interacted and Tyrion gave his speech.

It's always interesting to pick that stuff up, but it does also occasionally shatter the world a bit.

 

[Ratrat]

I have a feeling seeing as how Margaery really took off in the television, and how GRRM never really utilized her in books, he's going to give her a much bigger role going forward. That's my one issue. The show will influence a lot of his books. For example, look at the response Osha had in television compared to books. When she inevitably returns with Rickon story, you just know how she was in television will subconsciously affect him no?

People keep bringing this up, but 'how' was she different in the show? She was pretty much the same character. I think Martin was being nice. He also said Littlefinger was the most different from his book counterpart which, I take as code for being godawful.

 

[Atlantis]

It's a pity that her character was horrendously written in Season 3 (not to mention beforehand). Shoved into the background in most of the scenes she appears in.

Really makes me wonder what Michelle Fairley could have done with her if they had done the character more justice. She carried the entire Red Wedding, but beyond that I thought she was wonderful in every scene that gave her even the tiniest bit of focus.

 

[Kain]

On the flip side show Roose is way more awesome than book Roose, and I can't really say why.

Show Roose is not a vampire, so nope.

 

[Atraveller]

I wonder if there would be a "Et tu, Olly?" moment when Jon eventually gets stabbed, and then Olly nods.

 

[Moff]

Show Roose is not a vampire, so nope.

I'd say it's at least debatable. book roose just felt out of place and unreal. show roose is a much more believable character, mcelhatton also does a great job.
I like them both and book roose was great for the harrenhal fun house, but in the long run a believable lord is much better for the politics heavy story, although I do miss the eels.