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[Moff]

Sansa is Robb's heir without the Bolton's. Her being Ramsay's widow wouldn't change anything in Stannis's eyes.

Littlefinger's endgame for taking Sansa to Winterfell is still a mystery to me. If the best case scenario happens and Stannis takes back Winterfell and makes the other northern lords bend the knee... then what? How does Littlefinger benefit?

he will marry her and rule like that or even kill her. littlefinger wants to be nothing less than king of westeros.

and I dont agree that it's the same if she is only robbs heir that will be enough, if she would just wait it out in the vale. that is not how this works. as I said before, no one is asking dany to sit the iron throne because she is aerys' daughter. that claim has gone with the targaryen dynasty, she needs to get it back thorugh conquest.
just like sansas claim has gone with robb, it's not enough. she needs to find other means to get it back. and that is her marrying ramsay. but the stark name certainly helps, just like danys last name helped her.
I don't see stannis just giving it to her, especially since he was already trying to install somebody else he knows, jon.
however, if she is already there as the bolton widow, I don't seem him replacing her that easily. placing her in winterfell puts pressure on stannis.

 

[eot]

LF gave a look like he knew Lyanna wasn't raped, heh.

 

[duckroll]

The reason why it is important for Sansa to be in Winterfell and as herself is because once the Northerners rally around her, it will be pretty much impossible to displace her. Stannis will know this too. Loyalty runs really deep in the North. If she doesn't show herself and connect with her people, that claim will be a lot weaker. When she was at the Vale, it wasn't even safe for Littlefinger to reveal who she really was. At Winterfell it is different.

 

[Fonds]

Every storyline that's new in the HBO series feels clumsy, straight forward and cheesy to me. Even the actual dialogue and delivery is poor.

Where George Martins stuff feels intelligently crafted and surprising, the series is just taking a way too blunt approach to the entire story atm.
All it takes is the span of one episode for Jaime and Bronn to go on a broadtrip, wonder about being betrayed, being betrayed and being found out by the sandsnakes.
That is just not the George Martin way...

 

[LordCanti]

I should have specified. I meant his reason for taking her there right now. If Stannis is going to attack, her being there is dangerous to Littlefinger's plan. She was safe and sound in the Vale and ready to be installed in the North at a later date. Now she's in harms way and betrothed to a psycho. What difference does it make if he takes her there now or after Stannis and the Bolton's have had it out if marrying a Bolton is an acceptable alternative? Marry her to Ramsay after Stannis is defeated, or bring her North after Stannis has won.

The reason why it is important for Sansa to be in Winterfell and as herself is because once the Northerners rally around her, it will be pretty much impossible to displace her. Stannis will know this too. Loyalty runs really deep in the North. If she doesn't show herself and connect with her people, that claim will be a lot weaker. When she was at the Vale, it wasn't even safe for Littlefinger to reveal who she really was. At Winterfell it is different.

Stannis is obsessed with the law though. Would he really have denied Sansa her claim?

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

I thought Stannis is all about the rules and Westerosi culture dictates that a male heir would be next in line (unless you're in Dorne) so I really doubt Stannis will appoint Sansa as heir to the Starks.

Or unless Theon confesses to Sansa that both Bran and Rickon escaped which in turn Sansa will tell Stannis that both Stark kid are still alive.

 

[toddhunter]

Every storyline that's new in the HBO series feels clumsy, straight forward and cheesy to me. Even the actual dialogue and delivery is poor.

Where George Martins stuff feels intelligently crafted and surprising, the series is just taking a way too blunt approach to the entire story atm.
All it takes is the span of one episode for Jaime and Bronn to go on a broadtrip, wonder about being betrayed, being betrayed and being found out by the sandsnakes.
That is just not the George Martin way...

What is the George way? Taking two whole series to make the Dornish storylines look pointless and stupid? The show has to fit the Iron isles in too....

 

[duckroll]

I should have specified. I meant his reason for taking her there right now. If Stannis is going to attack, her being there is dangerous to Littlefinger's plan. She was safe and sound in the Vale and ready to be installed in the North at a later date. Now she's in harms way and betrothed to a psycho. What difference does it make if he takes her there now or after Stannis and the Bolton's have had it out if marrying a Bolton is an acceptable alternative? Marry her to Ramsay after Stannis is defeated, or bring her North after Stannis has won.

Opportunity. She needs to establish herself and reconnect with the Northerners before the shit goes down, because that will solidify her claim. To wait it out is to risk the possibility that people view Sansa as a coward who only reemerges to take advantage of the outcome. As a Stark returning to Winterfell in a time of instability, she shows that she is not abandoning her people. The reason why she's betrothed to Ramsey is because that's the only way for her to return to Winterfell safely, since the Boltons have taken over.

Stannis is obsessed with the law though. Would he really have denied Sansa her claim?

This isn't about Stannis, it's about the North. They are more important than Stannis. Stannis can say whatever he wants, but the more important thing is to win the hearts and minds of all the Northern families.

 

[Ratrat]

I thought Stannis is all about the rules and Westerosi culture dictates that a male heir would be next in line (unless you're in Dorne) so I really doubt Stannis will appoint Sansa as heir to the Starks.

Or unless Theon confesses to Sansa that both Bran and Rickon escaped which in turn Sansa will tell Stannis that both Stark kid are still alive.

Stannis specifically names Shireen as his heir and says he is taking the Iron Throne for her sake, as much as for himself.

 

[Moff]

I should have specified. I meant his reason for taking her there right now. If Stannis is going to attack, her being there is dangerous to Littlefinger's plan. She was safe and sound in the Vale and ready to be installed in the North at a later date. Now she's in harms way and betrothed to a psycho. What difference does it make if he takes her there now or after Stannis and the Bolton's have had it out if marrying a Bolton is an acceptable alternative? Marry her to Ramsay after Stannis is defeated, or bring her North after Stannis has won.

sansa has no claim on the north. her claim was gone when robb was killed, just like danys claim was gone when aerys II was killed. no one is asking dany to sit the throne, she needs to reclaim it. just like sansa does not have that claim anymore, it's gone. the boltons are the true rulers of the north just like the baratheons are the true rulers of westeros. and just like dany, sansa needs to find a new way to get her claim back, and that is marrying a bolton. and let stannis kill him.

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

Stannis specifically names Shireen as his heir and says he is taking the Iron Throne for her sake, as much as for himself.

Well, in Stannis' situation she would be the only choice since she's the only child

 

[Ratrat]

sansa has no claim on the north. her claim was gone when robb was killed, just like danys claim was gone when aery's II was killed. no one is asking her to sith the throne, she needs to reclaim it. just like sansa does not have that claim anymore, it's gone. the boltons are the true rulers of the north just like the baratheons are the true rulers of westeros. and just like dany, sansa needs to find a new way to get her claim back, and that is marrying a bolton. and let stannis kill him.

Stannis is going to ignore her claim if she pops up after the battle instead of before? How does marrying a traitor responsible for the death of Rob and Cat make her look good to Northerners anyhow. I suppose she can marry a Frey after Ramsay dies to finish the trifecta.

 

[Madness]

The big issue is Rickon is still in play, especially in the books, maybe the show? We know Bran, Arya, Jon won't ever really return to normalcy and rule Winterfell and Sansa is a girl in a man's world. She'll eventually be married off, just like Cersei was going to be married to the Tyrells, despite being a former queen to Baratheon and mother of the reigning King. The North would rather have a Stark at Winterfell rather than whoever Sansa would marry.

Plus, as for Littlefinger, he now has Harrenhal, the Eyrie, and with Sansa, might have all the North for a little while. He's easily working towards becoming the strongest man in Westeros, and no one seems to notice it except Varys. There is no way the show wouldn't want to utilize Ser Davos or display White Harbor, unless it's useless to the plot, but it doesn't seem that way.

 

[LordCanti]

Opportunity. She needs to establish herself and reconnect with the Northerners before the shit goes down, because that will solidify her claim. To wait it out is to risk the possibility that people view Sansa as a coward who only reemerges to take advantage of the outcome. As a Stark returning to Winterfell in a time of instability, she shows that she is not abandoning her people. The reason why she's betrothed to Ramsey is because that's the only way for her to return to Winterfell safely, since the Boltons have taken over.



This isn't about Stannis, it's about the North. They are more important than Stannis. Stannis can say whatever he wants, but the more important thing is to win the hearts and minds of all the Northern families.

I don't know what she's going to accomplish in terms of winning hearts and minds in the short time before Stannis marches on Winterfell but you're probably right about that being the justification for him having brought her North before the battle.

That doesn't mean I have to like it though

Stannis is going to ignore her claim if she pops up after the battle instead of before? How does marrying a traitor responsible for the death of Rob and Cat make her look good to Northerners anyhow. I suppose she can marry a Frey after Ramsay dies to finish the trifecta.

Yeah this is where I'm at. She marries the son of the traitor that murdered her father, her mother, and numerous other bannermen and that's going to endear her to the Stark loyalist houses?

 

[Moff]

Stannis is going to ignore her claim if she pops up after the battle instead of before? How does marrying a traitor responsible for the death of Rob and Cat make her look good to Northerners anyhow. I suppose she can marry a Frey after Ramsay dies to finish the trifecta.

do you think stannis will give dany her throne back? she is aerys II rightful heir after all.

 

[duckroll]

Stannis is going to ignore her claim if she pops up after the battle instead of before? How does marrying a traitor responsible for the death of Rob and Cat make her look good to Northerners anyhow.

She's obviously not going to just marry him. Remember how things are being set up.

"Avenge your family" - Littlefinger

"The North remembers" - the maid

There have been more than enough hints in the recent episodes that Sansa is only using the marriage as a means to an end. It's going to be a big revenge plot.

 

[Ratrat]

Well, in Stannis' situation she would be the only choice since she's the only child

I think he'd pick her over a bastard if that was a choice.

do you think stannis will give dany her throne back? she is aerys II rightful heir after all.

Not following the logic here. He's going to kill Ramsay.

She's obviously not going to just marry him. Remember how things are being set up.

"Avenge your family" - Littlefinger

"The North remembers" - the maid

There have been more than enough hints in the recent episodes that Sansa is only using the marriage as a means to an end. It's going to be a big revenge plot.

I see that...but is she supposed to orchestrate this Red Wedding 2 on her own? As of now it just kind of looks like Littlefinger is throwing her in there to fend for herself.

 

[toddhunter]

The simple plan seems to be to put Sansa with the most hated guys in the North. Then he stirs up a simple bit of rebellion "The North remembers" and the Boltons are killed.

He then swoops in and marries Sansa and boom, the whole North is his.

Why would LF even give a fuck about Stannis? he is pretty much irrelevant overall so I doubt he even comes into the plans.

 

[LordCanti]

She's obviously not going to just marry him. Remember how things are being set up.

"Avenge your family" - Littlefinger

"The North remembers" - the maid

There have been more than enough hints in the recent episodes that Sansa is only using the marriage as a means to an end. It's going to be a big revenge plot.

I'll admit that the end result is interesting if she does help kill the Bolton's and liberate Winterfell in that way.

 

[Forkball]

Y'all some picky MFers. I don't see how the Sand Snakes were so terrible. Obara's speech was pretty much straight from the book. The other Sand Snakes barely said anything except for, "Yo we killin' Myrcella or what?" I told you to get ready for the medieval Sailor Moon squad when I saw those matching outfits last year.

BREAKDOWN:

+I enjoyed Tyrion and Jorah's boat trip. I think Dinklage is striking a good balance between the more melancholy aspects of Tyrion's character during ADWD while also keeping his wit. I think they are 100% going to encounter the Stone Men with all the obvious foreshadowing this season.
+Speaking of boats, the conversation between Jaime and Bronn was also entertaining. I thought it was quite interesting that Jaime openly showed disdain for Tyrion killing Tywin when in the books Tyrion is the one who thinks negatively of Jaime.
+Pryce has done an incredible job as the High Sparrow. He is very nuanced, showing both sides of the character very subtly. He is definitely the standout new character this season. Not quite sure what I think of the Faith Militant yet. They definitely seem a bit more extreme when compared to their book counterparts. Also the whole anti-gay thing seems sort of out of nowhere. They just slap around sinners but straight up murder gay guys?
+Poor Tommen. He just wants to eat dinner and bang Margaery. His expanded role is certainly a positive change from the books. I can't wait for the twenty minute scene where he inducts Ser Pounce into the Kingsguard.
+GIVE STANNIS THE FATHER OF THE YEAR AWARD. I know Stannis is a highly criticized character since he is such a fan favorite among book nerds, but nevertheless, Dillane really brings out all facets of the character. I'm worried that this is all a set up to just kill of Shireen. NO JUST NO
+R+L=J. Good god, they were hammering it in this episode. They hammer it in a lot in the books, but we constantly get Rhaegar name drops in every title, yet it seems like they've just shoved all this info into this episode.
+Look, I'm not a fan of Selmy dying either, but he at least looked fearsome in his fight scene.
+Mel got naked

-They're really fumbling the Dorne stuff. The fight scene with the horsemen was pretty useless. One of the strengths in the series is that the action sequences tell a story themselves and serve as an exciting climax to a story arc. Here it was just... there. It's been four episodes and only ONE small scene with Doran? Hell we haven't even heard from Trystane and Myrcella and it was heavily rumored that they had a much-expanded plotline. The season will be halfway over next week, what are they waiting for?
-WHERE'S THEON? Like some of the Dornish folks, he's barely been featured this season. He has the best ADWD chapters and yet he's almost completely forgotten. MY NAMESAKE
-Although Littlefinger basically spelled out his entire plan this episode, it still more or less doesn't make sense. Keeping Sansa, your ace, in a place run by crazy people with an army about to crash down upon it, seems insane. I have no idea what Littlefinger is trying to do, and not in a master manipulator kind of way, but in a "you're fucking up" kind of way.
-Dany is taken down a peg in ADWD, but killing off Selmy and a lot of Unsullied is taking her down too many pegs. They threw her peg off the board. Who does Dany have now? DAARIO? I know they are trying to set up the Hizdahr marriage, but I don't think they need to go this far. I also feel like they killed way too many Unsullied. She has a finite amount of those, so even ONE getting killed is a big deal and basically jumpstarts the whole guerilla war. They are being demoted to Stormtroopers. Jorah, Grey Worm, and Super Daario wiped out a bunch of mercs and took Yunkai by themselves, yet like a half dozen Unsullied can't take out some untrained goobers in masks that must be hard to see out of? At least Selmy's fight scene was cool, but I would have liked to see a grander exit for him.

There were a lot of good scenes, but the direction of some of the storylines is a bit bizarre and troubling. I think Dorne will probably play out as expected in the end, but Dany and Sansa are on a crazy train to who knows where.

 

[Madness]

I have a feeling Theon will help Sansa escape, maybe with Brienne and Pod's help before she even gets married to Ramsay. The show runners said they only wanted Sansa to take on the Jeyne Poole role because she's a main show character, it makes no sense to leave her out. They can achieve the same story with Sansa.

 

[Ratrat]

I have a feeling Theon will help Sansa escape, maybe with Brienne and Pod's help before she even gets married to Ramsay. The show runners said they only wanted Sansa to take on the Jeyne Poole role because she's a main show character, it makes no sense to leave her out. They can achieve the same story with Sansa.

I can see Sansa offering to be Theon's whore. Never mind that he killed her brothers or anything.
edit: and why would she try to escape if the whole reason she is there is to fuck things up?

 

[Basileus777]

The reason why it is important for Sansa to be in Winterfell and as herself is because once the Northerners rally around her, it will be pretty much impossible to displace her. Stannis will know this too. Loyalty runs really deep in the North. If she doesn't show herself and connect with her people, that claim will be a lot weaker. When she was at the Vale, it wasn't even safe for Littlefinger to reveal who she really was. At Winterfell it is different.

It makes sense until the part where he leaves. What is Cersei going to do if he ignores her? Why would he leave Sansa alone with the dangerous Boltons? It makes plot sense to isolate Sansa, but not much for Littlefinger.

 

[duckroll]

I don't think Sansa's role is just going to be about "escaping". She is in Jeyne's role but she's not Jeyne. She's Sansa Stark, who has trained under Littlefinger to become a more devious young woman (you can tell because her outfit is now a dark edgy dress!!). I don't think she'll be playing a passive role in what is to come, and I don't think she'll want to be "rescued" by Brienne. But they'll try anyway, and there'll be a huge mess as Stannis joins the fray.

It makes sense until the part where he leaves. What is Cersei going to do if he ignores her? Why would he leave Sansa alone with the dangerous Boltons?

Beats me. We'll have to keep watching to find out! It's all original material from here on out, so everyone is guessing!

 

[Moff]

Not following the logic here. He's going to kill Ramsay.

this has nothing to do with ramsay.

I am saying sansas claim on the north has died with robb. just like danys claim on the throne has died with aerys II. both need to find new ways to get back their claims.

no one will look for a stark heir. the boltons are the legitimate rulers, even if they usurped the north. just like the baratheons are westeros legitimate rulers, even if they usurped the throne.

people always get very confused when it comes to claims.

I repeat: dany has no claim on the iron throne anymore, her claim was destroyed by the baratheons. no one asks her to sit the iron throne now.
sansa has no claim on the north anymore, her claim was destroyed by the boltons. no one asks her to rule the north now.

they both need to find new ways to get back their claims.

 

[toddhunter]

Obara's speech was pretty much straight from the book.

That is the problem.

I'm worried that this is all a set up to just kill of Shireen. NO JUST NO

It seems pretty certain now.

people always get very confused when it comes to claims.

Like yourself. They all still have claims to the titles and crowns. What has changed is if anybody else gives a fuck.

 

[Madness]

I can see Sansa offering to be Theon's whore. Never mind that he killed her brothers or anything.

Well we know she's taken Jeyne Poole's place, so her and Theon story will intertwine. Maybe she'll forgive him and maybe he'll tell her, that he never killed them, they escaped. They're deviating from the books, but still following the general storyline. Where do people seem to think Sansa will be able to get some Uma Thurman-esque Bride revenge from? She's still a meek and terrified girl, surrounded by Ramsay's torturous whores and Ramsay himself.

 

[Fonds]

What is the George way? Taking two whole series to make the Dornish storylines look pointless and stupid? The show has to fit the Iron isles in too....

I sincerely hope they're not going to try and cram that in the series as well.
Oh hey guys this is Damphair, he'll be hosting a Kingsmoot (A what now?!)... Victarion wants a piece of the crown (uh... whu-?) Asha is trying to get a piece of it as well (Hey we know her!) Euron sweeps in however when the two other dogs are fighting over the Moot.

The HBO abbreviated version is: Victarion and Euron don't exist. Asha and Theon (Who has returned to the Iron isles) fight it out in the Moot. Theon wins and gets to court Daenerys.

 

[toddhunter]

The HBO abbreviated version is: Victarion and Euron don't exist. Asha and Theon (Who has returned to the Iron isles) fight it out in the Moot. Theon wins and gets to court Daenerys.

No Euron is in for sure... but he is now The Hound.

 

[LordCanti]

If sincerely hope they're not going to try and cram that in the series as well.
Oh hey guys this is Damphair, he'll be hosting a Kingsmoot (A what now?!)... Victarion wants a piece of the crown (uh... whu-?) Asha is trying to get a piece of it as well (Hey we know her!) Euron sweeps in however when the two other dogs are fighting over the Moot.

The HBO abbreviated version is: Victarion and Euron don't exist. Asha and Theon (Who has returned to the Iron isles) fight it out in the Moot. Theon wins and gets to court Daenerys.

His lack of a penis might make this partnership unfruitful

 

[Forkball]

Where do people seem to think Sansa will be able to get some Uma Thurman-esque Bride revenge from? She's still a meek and terrified girl, surrounded by Ramsay's torturous whores and Ramsay himself.

She wears black now though.

I think a lot of people just don't want to see Sansa turned into a plaything for Ramsay. People are tired of Sansa being the victim and want her to rise up and take control. A popular theory in the books is that she will eventually be crowned Queen of the North and she is who initiates the Northerners turning on the Boltons.

 

[Moff]

Like yourself. They all still have claims to the titles and crowns. What has changed is if anybody else gives a fuck.

that is true, however there still are rules. and honorable men like stannis follow them.
he didnt simply accept renly or geoffry as kings because more people "gave a fuck" about them. he is not power hungry either. stannis did this because he is an honorable men and the iron throne is his by right. he has the strongest claim, regardless of how many people back him or the size of his army.

 

[Ratrat]

this has nothing to do with ramsay.

I am saying sansas claim on the north has died with robb. just like danys claim on the throne has died with aerys II. both need to find new ways to get back their claims.

no one will look for a stark heir. the boltons are the legitimate rulers, even if they usurped the north. just like the baratheons are westeros legitimate rulers, even if they usurped the throne.

people always get very confused when it comes to claims.

I repeat: dany has no claim on the iron throne anymore, her claim was destroyed by the baratheons. no one asks her to sit the iron throne now.
sansa has no claim on the north anymore, her claim was destroyed by the boltons. no one asks her to rule the north now.

they both need to find new ways to get back their claims.

Well, then wouldn't her 'claim' come from her soon to be dead husband and therefore be worthless? Stannis could still chose to put whoever he wants there, he could have Sansa killed as a two-time traitor if he wanted. Ramsay wants to marry her for her ties to the North. Stannis would see that too regardless of how many traitors she married.

Well we know she's taken Jeyne Poole's place, so her and Theon story will intertwine. Maybe she'll forgive him and maybe he'll tell her, that he never killed them, they escaped. They're deviating from the books, but still following the general storyline. Where do people seem to think Sansa will be able to get some Uma Thurman-esque Bride revenge from? She's still a meek and terrified girl, surrounded by Ramsay's torturous whores and Ramsay himself.

Cause it's the only way to have these questionable Littlefinger decisions pay off.

 

[ToyMachine228]

I'll admit that the end result is interesting if she does help kill the Bolton's and liberate Winterfell in that way.

I don't understand how so many of you are so blind to the fact that this is OBVIOUSLY what's going to happen. Littlefinger has been sharing knowledge with her since the first season. And what does Littlefinger say in the first season? "I don't fight my enemies, I fuck them." Sansa coming to Winterfell is a huge opportunity for her and her character. To finally take control of her life. To stop being abused. To become a player in the game. That is her story arc and was always going to be the point of her character's arc. It wouldn't be an interesting character if we just saw her cry and let the world around her get the best of her for 7 books.

Sansa is going to play a huge role in the downfall of the Boltons and will become a force in Westeros long term. She will either become Wardeness of the North, Queen of the North, or even Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. Most people assume that Margery is the Queen that will replace Cersei in the Maggie the Frog prophecy, but its very possible that it will be Sansa, who will come into her own and be both beautiful and loveable, respected as a Stark, sympathetic (because of what happened to her family), but also an able bodied Queen thanks to her lessons from Littlefinger and what happens in the mean time after the overthrow of the Boltons.

All of this is a long term prediction, but seriously, its as clear as day that Sansa is becoming a player in the game and that's the direction her character is clearly supposed to go based on where she started.

 

[NeoGiff]

Y'all some picky MFers. I don't see how the Sand Snakes were so terrible. Obara's speech was pretty much straight from the book. The other Sand Snakes barely said anything except for, "Yo we killin' Myrcella or what?" I told you to get ready for the medieval Sailor Moon squad when I saw those matching outfits last year.

Her speech being straight from the book is kind of a problem in itself.

It's much too wordy. Why does Obara suddenly start grandstanding and telling her sisters and Ellarianne a story that they no doubt already know? It's way too overdramatic.

Ellarianne: "Want to piss on one of Oberyn's principles and kill little girls?"

Tyene: "Yes Mama, because I'm the meek one and do what you say. You can tell because I'm petite and cute and call you Mama. Also look at my twin daggers, they'll be useful in the upcoming boss fight with Jaime and Bronn."

Nym: "I'll just nod because I'm the sexy, mysterious one. Also, do you see my whip? Look what I can do with it!"

Obara: "Allow me to address the audience, please. To do so I have to turn my back on all of you while dramatically walking towards the front of the stage/camera. Look at my spear, I use it because I'm the most like Oberyn, just in case you didn't already know from my Oberyn cosplay outfit. Now I'm going to throw my spear to show how badass I am! Hyyyyaaahhh! Did you see that? We're the Sand Snakes, and we mean business."

 

[Moff]

Well, then wouldn't her 'claim' come from her soon to be dead husband and therefore be worthless? Stannis could still chose to put whoever he wants there, he could have Sansa killed as a two-time traitor if he wanted. Ramsay wants to marry her for her ties to the North. Stannis would see that too regardless of how many traitors she married.

Cause it's the only way to have these questionable Littlefinger decisions pay off.

littlefingers plan makes 100% sense to me, there is no better way to make sansa ruler of the north.

you call the boltons traitors, but that does not make them any less legitimte rulers. remember, the baratheons are traitors, too, no one disputes their claim because of that.
but that doesnt mean that if the baratheons are gone, everyone will just support daenerys. no, she needs to be the one doing the conquering. no one will just give it to her, no one cares about old claims, no one. they are gone. there is no way stannis would make sansa wardeness of the north if she was waiting in the vale, he has no reason and no need to do that.

however, if she is already there, as boltons heir, both of that changes. you are right with one thing though, that he could kill her. that would be within his right as conqueror. but littlefinger surely speculates that stannis wont kill ned starks daughter. and I think he is right.

 

[Drazgul]

they both need to find new ways to get back their claims.

Might makes right. He who has the largest armies gets to decide who rules. Dany has her dragons of course, which if controlled are easily worth a large army each.

 

[Baron Aloha]

Her speech being straight from the book is kind of a problem in itself.

It's much too wordy. Why does Obara suddenly start grandstanding and telling her sisters and Ellarianne a story that they no doubt already know? It's way too overdramatic.

Ellarianne: "Want to piss on one of Oberyn's principles and kill little girls?"

Tyene: "Yes Mama, because I'm the meek one and do what you say. You can tell because I'm petite and cute and call you Mama. Also look at my twin daggers, they'll be useful in the upcoming boss fight with Jaime and Bronn."

Nym: "I'll just nod because I'm the sexy, mysterious one. Also, do you see my whip? Look what I can do with it!"

Obara: "Allow me to address the audience, please. To do so I have to turn my back on all of you while dramatically walking towards the front of the stage/camera. Look at my spear, I use it because I'm the most like Oberyn, just in case you didn't already know from my Oberyn cosplay outfit. Now I'm going to throw my spear to show how badass I am! Hyyyyaaahhh! Did you see that? We're the Sand Snakes, and we mean business."

I was thinking the exact same thing during the scene.

 

[RedShift]

His lack of a penis might make this partnership unfruitful

Dany not being able to have kids will make it pretty unfruitful as well.

 

[Forkball]

Her speech being straight from the book is kind of a problem in itself.

It's much too wordy. Why does Obara suddenly start grandstanding and telling her sisters and Ellarianne a story that they no doubt already know? It's way too overdramatic.

Ellarianne: "Want to piss on one of Oberyn's principles and kill little girls?"

Tyene: "Yes Mama, because I'm the meek one and do what you say. You can tell because I'm petite and cute and call you Mama. Also look at my twin daggers, they'll be useful in the upcoming boss fight with Jaime and Bronn."

Nym: "I'll just nod because I'm the sexy, mysterious one. Also, do you see my whip? Look what I can do with it!"

Obara: "Allow me to address the audience, please. To do so I have to turn my back on all of you while dramatically walking towards the front of the stage/camera. Look at my spear, I use it because I'm the most like Oberyn, just in case you didn't already know from my Oberyn cosplay outfit. Now I'm going to throw my spear to show how badass I am! Hyyyyaaahhh! Did you see that? We're the Sand Snakes, and we mean business."

Yeah yeah, it was a typical exposition scene where people talk about whatever to no one for too long, but some people are saying it was the worst scene in the entire series. They're gonna have like one fight scene, get arrested, and then that'll probably be it. I don't think they're that bad or will have a huge impact, but I do agree that Dorne has not been handled very well even though they have some good actors on board for those characters.

I also don't see Bronn getting killed this season. I just can't see him being written off so quickly. Before you bring up Selmy, Bronn has had way more screen presence and notoriety than Selmy in the show.

 

[toddhunter]

however, if she is already there, as boltons heir, both of that changes. you are right with one thing though, that he could kill her. that would be within his right as conqueror. but littlefinger surely speculates that stannis wont kill ned starks daughter. and I think he is right.

Why does Stannis have to come into it though? In the show I expect Ramsay to kill Roose and then Sansa/LF to kill Ramsay. It is a lot cleaner and simpler way to set her and LF up as the rulers of the North.

Even if Stannis is involved for some reason, what can he do? Announce somebody warden of the North? There already is a warden of the North and it'll be the same people. Either way they are not a king so claims don't come into it. It is pretty much just a job.

 

[Moff]

Might makes right. He who has the largest armies gets to decide who rules. Dany has her dragons of course, which if controlled are easily worth a large army each.

yes, legitimacy thorugh conquest is a good claim. aegon did it, robert did it. it's usually what it comes to when everything else fails. it works. however, there are other ways to get power, seeing how littlefinger got the vale.

Why does Stannis have to come into it though? In the show I expect Ramsay to kill Roose and then Sansa/LF to kill Ramsay. It is a lot cleaner and simpler way to set her and LF up as the rulers of the North.

Even if Stannis is involved for some reason, what can he do? Announce somebody warden of the North? There already is a warden of the North and it'll be the same people. Either way they are not a king so claims don't come into it. It is pretty much just a job.

stannis is not exactly under Littlefingers command, he surely suspects that he will attack and probably win, but he doesn not know.
either way, both works fine, that's why the plan makes 100% sense to me. either way, the boltons die, and sansa is there to be the heir.

 

[LordCanti]

Dany not being able to have kids will make it pretty unfruitful as well.

She can have them again once the prophecy is fulfilled. Maybe. Who knows.

 

[Fonds]

She can have them again once the prophecy is fulfilled. Maybe. Who knows.

The only thing that will subdue a dragon is a kraken... (Time for some japanese tentacle ...

Spoiler

love

)

 

[Shuggananas]

Dany not being able to have kids will make it pretty unfruitful as well.

but she bleeds in the end of ADWD

 

[Madness]

I don't understand how so many of you are so blind to the fact that this is OBVIOUSLY what's going to happen. Littlefinger has been sharing knowledge with her since the first season. And what does Littlefinger say in the first season? "I don't fight my enemies, I fuck them." Sansa coming to Winterfell is a huge opportunity for her and her character. To finally take control of her life. To stop being abused. To become a player in the game. That is her story arc and was always going to be the point of her character's arc. It wouldn't be an interesting character if we just saw her cry and let the world around her get the best of her for 7 books.

Sansa is going to play a huge role in the downfall of the Boltons and will become a force in Westeros long term. She will either become Wardeness of the North, Queen of the North, or even Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. Most people assume that Margery is the Queen that will replace Cersei in the Maggie the Frog prophecy, but its very possible that it will be Sansa, who will come into her own and be both beautiful and loveable, respected as a Stark, sympathetic (because of what happened to her family), but also an able bodied Queen thanks to her lessons from Littlefinger and what happens in the mean time after the overthrow of the Boltons.

All of this is a long term prediction, but seriously, its as clear as day that Sansa is becoming a player in the game and that's the direction her character is clearly supposed to go based on where she started.

I mean seriously, even though I wasn't a book reader from the start, your post literally reads nothing like any sort of sensible theory based in what we've read the past 5 books, or seen the past 4 seasons on Game of Thrones. It is far too hopeful and based on really nothing more than what you ideally want to happen.

She's in Winterfell because the showrunners didn't want to leave her out for a season because she's become a popular character. It's why Brienne has such a vastly increase role and why Jaime is in Dorne. They even said, what better part than to have her storyline replace Jeyne who was such a minor character. The big story at Winterfell won't be Sansa becoming Queen of the North, it's that Stannis is coming and Jon is going to have to decide whether he'll march soon to help Stannis. I don't doubt the showrunners have something greater planned for her, to show she's not always the little girl who's been tortured, but she's in Winterfell with a hostile crew of people, about to be married to a crazy man, with none of her father's bannerman still left save for a few crazy old northerners/women. Littlefinger won't play his hand that quick. And just watch as television Sansa will probably be saved from Theon as Ramsay's girls get jealous he likes her.

 

[Moff]

I am pretty sure sansa will end up in the north in the books as well. what other use could she have for littlefinger? it will simply be done differently in the books, probably with more harry the heir sleeping pills.

 

[Madness]

There's a reason they had Brienne confront Sansa and Littlefinger and have her and Pod follow them. Maybe Sansa would have ended up in the North, but I think she'll leave for somewhere else. She's still persona non grata outside of the North because Cersei thinks she had a part to play in Joffrey death, and in the North, the Boltons still rule. Theon story is just as important as Sansa. His help and escape was a big character builder for him in remembering he was Theon and getting some sort of redemption. I have a feeling it'll be Sansa, Theon, Brienne and maybe Pod, maybe they'll go to Castle Black etc.

 

[NeoGiff]

I don't understand how so many of you are so blind to the fact that this is OBVIOUSLY what's going to happen. Littlefinger has been sharing knowledge with her since the first season. And what does Littlefinger say in the first season? "I don't fight my enemies, I fuck them."

So... Littlefinger is going to fuck Ramsay for Sansa?

 

[Anoregon]

I enjoyed the episode, but I have to echo the complaints about how the unsullied and barristan should have had a much better outcome versus random harpies. The whole point of the unsullied is they are supposed to be able to like effortlessly destroy their enemy in that sort of encounter.