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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 6 Offseason Thread

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Z

ZeroRay

Member
They decided to go through with the adaptation around 2007. It wasn't a sure thing at that point, but GRRM respected D&D's knowledge/passion of the series to give them the green light. Them answering the R+ J question to GRRM's satisfaction sealed it.

I'm also pretty sure during that time, GRRM told them that Dance would be out "really soon" and the series would be done by 2015 at the latest or some optimistic shit like that.
 
S

Sayad

Member
Demise said:
Maisie Williams looks like the hunchback of notre dame now.
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hs4pqB7.jpg
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I hate you. :(
 
G

Gigglepoo

Member
ZeroRay said:
They decided to go through with the adaptation around 2007. It wasn't a sure thing at that point, but GRRM respected D&D's knowledge/passion of the series to give them the green light. Them answering the R+ J question to GRRM's satisfaction sealed it.

I'm also pretty sure during that time, GRRM told them that Dance would be out "really soon" and the series would be done by 2015 at the latest or some optimistic shit like that.
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Yeah, HBO took a gamble. It's still weird to blame Martin for not writing faster. It's not easy to write novels, especially ones so complex. I do wish he hadn't let them adapt until he was done, though. Like the Harry Potter movies, I feel like we'll need another adaption down the line with the full story to pull from.
 
Chuckie

Chuckie

Member
Gigglepoo said:
The Mountain is a terrible person but we're at least given a little to sympathize with in the books. He's in constant pain and lashes out in anger. Deplorable? Yes, but he's not a monster.
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..........what?

He smashes a baby into a wall in front of his mother, and proceeds to rape her with the babybrains still on his gloves.

What does a man have to do to become a monster in your eyes?
 
B

biosnake20

Member
Gigglepoo said:
Yeah, HBO took a gamble. It's still weird to blame Martin for not writing faster. It's not easy to write novels, especially ones so complex. I do wish he hadn't let them adapt until he was done, though. Like the Harry Potter movies, I feel like we'll need another adaption down the line with the full story to pull from.
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GRRM probably thought he could finish the series in time back in 07 and HBO probably took his word for it. For the time it would take for the series to eventually start and catch up to the books he probably thought he had at least 8-9 years before then, which he thought would be ample time to finish the books.
 
G

Gigglepoo

Member
Tence said:
..........what?

He smashes a baby into a wall in front of his mother, and proceeds to rape her with the babybrains still on his gloves.

What does a man have to do to become a monster in your eyes?
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Like I said, he's a terrible person. But at least Martin gives us a reason for his rage. It's those little touches that makes the world believable.
 
Chuckie

Chuckie

Member
Gigglepoo said:
Like I said, he's a terrible person. But at least Martin gives us a reason for his rage. It's those little touches that makes the world believable.
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What is the reason for his rage? I missed that I think. As far as I know the Mountain has been a cunt since he was a kid. With burning his brother and all. For me he is the definition of a monster.

Edit: Some history on Gregor

Gregor's history is dark and filled with blood. As a young boy, eleven or twelve years old, he caused his brother Sandor's facial scars by holding the younger boy's face to a hot brazier as punishment for playing with a toy he had discarded. Their father spread the story that the injuries were caused by bedding that had caught fire.

Four years later, Gregor was knighted by Prince Rhaegar Targaryen. There were rumors that Gregor killed his father, sister, and his first two wives. His keep is said to be a grim place where servants vanish unaccountably and even the dogs are afraid to enter the halls.Gregor has committed rapes and cold blooded murders beyond count but his most infamous deed came from his service to House Lannister during Robert's Rebellion.

At the age of seventeen, Gregor was one of the first Lannister soldiers to enter King's Landing during its sack at the end of the war. He and Ser Amory Lorch scaled Maegor's Holdfast when the Lannister troops reached the Red Keep. Gregor entered the nursery of the infant Prince Aegon, son of Prince Rhaegar, and killed the baby present by dashing the boy's head against a wall. Then he raped and murdered Aegon's mother, Princess Elia, supposedly with the boy's blood and brains still on his hand
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Yeah... I am really not sure what makes you sympathize a little with him. I also see no reason (let alone a good one) for him to 'lash out in anger'
 
M

mantidor

Member
The thing about the Mountain is that as monstrous as he is he honestly has no real power and is always being used by someone else, mainly the Lannisters. He doesn't fill the role of an actual villain.

Gigglepoo said:
My problem with the show is that it prioritizes twists above everything else. Even breasts. Because of that, scenes are constructed to lull you into peace before the rub is pulled out from under you.
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Yes! I've said it before but it feels the writing room on this show has become a way to give a material to videos of "shock reactions" on youtube. I was watching the finale at a bar last year and the moment Jaime and Myrcella had their little father/daughter moment everyone in the bar practically said "she is dead" in unison.
 
M

Massa

Member
Gigglepoo said:
Yeah, HBO took a gamble. It's still weird to blame Martin for not writing faster. It's not easy to write novels, especially ones so complex. I do wish he hadn't let them adapt until he was done, though. Like the Harry Potter movies, I feel like we'll need another adaption down the line with the full story to pull from.
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The novels are complex and not fit for TV. Even if you could do a better job by planning it from the beginning you'd still have to either make significant cuts or create a shit TV show. What we got is one of the best possible scenarios.
 
C

Cornballer

Member
Hey folks, knock off the discussion about Maisie's appearance. Thank you.

Kain said:
Soooo when's the new thread going to pop up, the hall of f(sh)ame and all that? I feel we need new stuff
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Not until a week before the season starts, so we have a while yet.

EDIT: Maybe I'll do a global wall of shame count (total posts from all five seasons) if I have time today.
 
T

Tuffty

Member
Massa said:
The novels are complex and not fit for TV. Even if you could do a better job by planning it from the beginning you'd still have to either make significant cuts or create a shit TV show. What we got is one of the best possible scenarios.
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It also doesn't lend the TV adaptation any favors when each series is only 10 episodes. But I'm sure the budget would be much more than it already is so that wouldn't be feasible.
 
N

Napalm_Frank

Member
Ganzlinger said:
The Mountain is a piece of shit and nothing redeems him from what he have done imo. Only Ramsay and Frey are worse than him.
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I don't consider Frey to be anywhere near unredeemable compared to those two and not really a traditional villain character either. Robb is the one who betrays him (after Frey soldiers have already died fighting his war to boot). He definately is not honorable or trustworthy but he doesn't kill or rape people without sound reason AFAIK. What other choise did he have at that point? Continue to support the king that betrayed him in a war that they probably would not have won anyway after Renly imploded.

And IIRC there is no real insight in the books what the Freys truly think of the rebellion. The only other thing outside of red wedding that makes Walder seem like a scumbag is not answering to Edmure for open rebellion against the iron throne and arriving late at the Trident. In my opinion Frey is the very definition of a grey character, tho maybe on the dark grey side.

#walderfrey2016
 
DKehoe

DKehoe

Member
Napalm_Frank said:
I don't consider Frey to be anywhere near unredeemable compared to those two and not really a traditional villain character either. Robb is the one who betrays him (after Frey soldiers have already died fighting his war to boot). He definately is not honorable or trustworthy but he doesn't kill or rape people without sound reason AFAIK. What other choise did he have at that point? Continue to support the king that betrayed him in a war that they probably would not have won anyway after Renly imploded.

And IIRC there is no real insight in the books what the Freys truly think of the rebellion. The only other thing outside of red wedding that makes Walder seem like a scumbag is not answering to Edmure for open rebellion against the iron throne and arriving late at the Trident.

#walderfrey2016
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Yeh, Walder just seems like a slimy opportunist really. He goes with whatever benefits him the most. He's ruthless about it but he's not as bad as Ramsay or Gregor who do terrible things because they enjoy it.
 
Z

ZeroRay

Member
Walder does get props for keeping his shitty family together and looking out for their best interests, no matter how slimy.

Guessing in the end he'll either live to see it all fall apart due to North/Riverland revenge, or they'll destroy themselves after his death.
 
O

Oldest Snake

Member
ZeroRay said:
Walder does get props for keeping his shitty family together and looking out for their best interests, no matter how slimy.

Guessing in the end he'll either live to see it all fall apart due to North/Riverland revenge, or they'll destroy themselves after his death.
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You better believe that Lady Stoneheart is planning the Red Wedding Mk.II in ADWD.
 
B

Brakke

Banned
We still keeping Book Reader and Unsullied threads separate? Basically all the storylines are now beyond or diverged from the book, but also I guess he Unsullied probably will get bored real fast of us yelling "Euron = Daario" and "High Howland" all the time.
 
K

Kain

Member
Brakke said:
We still keeping Book Reader and Unsullied threads separate? Basically all the storylines are now beyond or diverged from the book, but also I guess he Unsullied probably will get bored real fast of us yelling "Euron = Daario" and "High Howland" all the time.
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Oh boy, I can't imagine the pain of combining both threads.

I will happily stay in the book reader one with my fellow complainers, thank you very much.
 
W

WhereAreMahDragonz

Banned
Brakke said:
We still keeping Book Reader and Unsullied threads separate? Basically all the storylines are now beyond or diverged from the book, but also I guess he Unsullied probably will get bored real fast of us yelling "Euron = Daario" and "High Howland" all the time.
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I mean there are still things we can spoil for them. Victarion / Asha, R + L = J, maybe some lore about Night's King.
 
N

NeoGiff

Member
Lots of people still seem to think Jon will be resurrected in the first episode, but that definitely won't happen with how many obvious pre-resurrection scenes were in the trailer.

So, when do we think he'll come back? My money is on the very end of episode 3, with the aftermath in episode 4. I could also see it happening at the end of episode 2. I do think (wonky timeline aside), that the character's absence needs to be felt for at least 2 episodes before he comes back.
 
I

Iksenpets

Banned
NeoGiff said:
Lots of people still seem to think Jon will be resurrected in the first episode, but that definitely won't happen with how many obvious pre-resurrection scenes were in the trailer.

So, when do we think he'll come back? My money is on the very end of episode 3, with the aftermath in episode 4. I could also see it happening at the end of episode 2. I do think (wonky timeline aside), that the character's absence needs to be felt for at least 2 episodes before he comes back.
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I'm going to bet on Episode 2. They will want at least one week of him being confirmed dead. Episode 1 will probably have no hope of resurrection presented at all to maximize despair. But then they'll reverse course quickly in episode 2 because they want to get back to having Jon on screen as quickly as possible.

And dear god, keep us away from the show-only thread forever. Even if the show goes to ten seasons and Winds is never published. They don't need to deal with us. And for right now at least, we can still offer some measure of spoilers on R+L=J/Tower of Joy, the Hound's potential survival, Riverrun, Greyjoys, Oldtown, Northern lords/Rickon, Kevan's eventual death, etc.
 
O

Oldest Snake

Member
Gigglepoo said:
I think Martin said Show Night's King is completely different from Book Night's King.

Makes sense. In the books, he's clearly going to be Stannis.
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Yup.

The recent unveiling of the Night’s King — a leading White Walker with the power to raise wights with a gesture — left many fans wondering if this supernatural “monarch” will appear similarly in the novels.

The answer, Martin strongly implied, is “Probably not.”
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B

Brakke

Banned
Iksenpets said:
I'm going to bet on Episode 2. They will want at least one week of him being confirmed dead. Episode 1 will probably have no hope of resurrection presented at all to maximize despair. But then they'll reverse course quickly in episode 2 because they want to get back to having Jon on screen as quickly as possible.

And dear god, keep us away from the show-only thread forever. Even if the show goes to ten seasons and Winds is never published. They don't need to deal with us. And for right now at least, we can still offer some measure of spoilers on R+L=J/Tower of Joy, the Hound's potential survival, Riverrun, Greyjoys, Oldtown, Northern lords/Rickon, Kevan's eventual death, etc.
Click to expand...

I'm curious if there will even be a Great Northern Conspiracy on the show. Do we know Manderly is cast or anything?

R+L=J is barely even a spoiler for show watchers at this point. All of my friends either caught it from some "what question did D&D answer" article or else they arrive at it pretty much immediately after minor prodding. It's barely even interesting to most show watchers. "Hey Jon's parents are two people you've never seen cool huh?".
 
G

Gigglepoo

Member
Brakke said:
I'm curious if there will even be a Great Northern Conspiracy on the show. Do we know Manderly is cast or anything?
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Maderly is my favorite bit character.

"So young," said Wyman Manderly. "Though mayhaps this was a blessing. Had he lived, he would have grown up to be a Frey."
 
N

Napalm_Frank

Member
I really hope Jon doesn't get resurrected or if he does he has seriously changed somehow like Stoneheart. Just a simple Jesus resurrection would be so boring. Even Dondarrion that in the show was still pretty clean had an eyepatch at least.

Won't happen I know.
 
A

ASIS

Member
Gigglepoo said:
I think Martin said Show Night's King is completely different from Book Night's King.

Makes sense. In the books, he's clearly going to be Stannis.
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Man how exactly will the show and book series come to the same conclusion? These are pretty major plots they are changing if what you are saying is true.

On one hand, it's cool to see them experiment, on the other, I just want to see THE ending, rather than some version of it.
 
R

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
Oldest Snake said:
Yup.

The recent unveiling of the Night’s King — a leading White Walker with the power to raise wights with a gesture — left many fans wondering if this supernatural “monarch” will appear similarly in the novels.

The answer, Martin strongly implied, is “Probably not.”
Click to expand...
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Good. This sort of Supreme Evil Leader character is much better suited to TV.
 
B

Brakke

Banned
Martin was just saying that the Ice Darth Maul isn't the same as the Night's King we've encountered in legend in the book. The book could very easily have a King of the Others.
 
C

Cornballer

Member
RaidenZR said:
Where did you pull the quote from? Just curious. Don't think I've ever read that.
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That's from an article based on this quote in the comments on his blog:
GRRM said:
As for the Night's King (the form I prefer), in the books he is a legendary figure, akin to Lann the Clever and Brandon the Builder, and no more likely to have survived to the present day than they have.
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EDIT: He's responding to this question:
We've...run into a bit of a problem which I realize you really aren't at much liberty to discuss.

Starting with the episode "Hardhome", the TV writers have started openly referring to the White Walker leader as "the Night King". Back in Season 4 the online guide also briefly listed him as "The Night's King" but was hastily taken down, apparently a leak. The online guide now calls him "The Night King".

Everyone in the media is now assuming that this "Night King" is the SAME character as the legendary "Night's King" fought by Joramun 8,000 years ago. I'm concerned if it's just a TITLE, like "Storm King", so there can be more than one - given that it was said the Night's King was killed.

Now I want to ask "are these indeed the same character?" but I know you probably won't reveal upcoming book material. Better phrasing might be "is it appropriate to treat these as one character on a single article on the wiki, or should we split it into two articles? Or at least two sections on the same article?"

Well, you probably can't answer that as of yet.

One thing I do hope you CAN answer: Benioff and Weiss, the online guide, and even the actor Ross Mullan who plays one of the other White Walkers, CONSISTENTLY refer to him as "The Night King" - without a possessive "S". So my question is, is there *any* significance to that distinction, or can the two terms be used interchangeably?
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Yoda

Yoda

Member
In the show the others == whitewalker (merged for simplicity). The night king(darth maul WW leader, or w/e we wanna label him) we see in the show is most likely not going to be in the book's in any fashion.
 
B

biosnake20

Member
Brakke said:
I'm curious if there will even be a Great Northern Conspiracy on the show. Do we know Manderly is cast or anything?

R+L=J is barely even a spoiler for show watchers at this point. All of my friends either caught it from some "what question did D&D answer" article or else they arrive at it pretty much immediately after minor prodding. It's barely even interesting to most show watchers. "Hey Jon's parents are two people you've never seen cool huh?".
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They cast someone that is most likely Manderly.
 
B

Brakke

Banned
Also the show "character" hasn't even been referred to as Night's King in the text anywhere, I think. He was just referred to as such in some episode synopsis that HBO revised later.

All of which is to say: a White Walker leader, who magicks babies into Walkers, could very well show up in the next book. There's not really anything in either source that would indicate that he won't.

Yoda said:
In the show the others == whitewalker (merged for simplicity). The night king(darth maul WW leader, or w/e we wanna label him) we see in the show is most likely not going to be in the book's in any fashion.
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What makes you think Others and White Walkers are different entities in the book?
 
L

Lothar

Banned
Cornballer said:
Yup.
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Whenever you make an Unsullied thread can you tell them in the OP that they should feel free to ask questions here and talk with us since there's no major spoilers left?

Unless Lady Stoneheart is appearing and I haven't heard anyone say that Fairley was coming back. I can't think of anything else that would be major.
 
C

Cornballer

Member
Lothar said:
Whenever you make an Unsullied thread can you tell them in the OP that they should feel free to ask questions here and talk with us since there's no major spoilers left?
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Remind Steely in a few weeks, as he'll be making the thread. Or I can edit it in later. We typically have a few book readers listed in the OP as willing to answer questions, and we can add that blurb.
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
Brakke said:
What makes you think Others and White Walkers are different entities in the book?
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Yeah, iirc they are the same thing, just two different names. They were referred to as "others" in the original pilot script as they are commonly referred to in the books, but then that became popularized by Lost, so they decided to use White Walkers and scrap using Others.

Probably for the best imo, it's more distinct.
Cornballer said:
Remind Steely in a few weeks, as he'll be making the thread. Or I can edit it in later. We typically have a few book readers listed in the OP as willing to answer questions, and we can add that blurb.
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I'd prefer to stick with volunteers that I'll list in the OP, rather than invite people to enter the minefield to ask a question.

Anyone that wants to volunteer for that, just shoot me a PM and I'll note to link your profile in the unsullied thread.
 
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