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[Speevy]

Stannis' sloppy end is mostly D&D's fault (99% I'd say), but that 1% is our fault for not buying into all the reasons they tried to give for us to hate him.

-Varys detested his blood magic, and it was at least heavily implied that a victory at King's Landing would lead to Sansa's death too.
-His red woman killed Renly, effectively ending the Stark/Baratheon alliance that would have probably destroyed the Lannisters.
-He agreed to sacrifice Gendry to further his claim to the throne.
-He killed Mance Rayder, who was an honorable man. Mance wasn't a *real* king and couldn't have convinced the wildlings to follow Stannis anyway.
-He was always willing to sacrifice his own army and had to be pulled off the battlefield, even when facing certain annihilation. Some may say this one is a good quality, others not so much.


The bottom line is that after all these things, people were still saying he was a total badass who should be king.

D&D must have thought "Damn, what can we do to make this guy unlikeable? Hey George, didn't you say Shireen gets burned in the novels? Let's have him do that!"

 

[Speevy]

Nobody knows

Except Jon snow, ironically.

 

[Kain]

Spoiler

Two Shae

Shit.

 

[Speevy]

Shit.

 

[Atraveller]

Goddamnit!

 

[Latvian Hitman]

I don't have a link but it was basically:

-Doran actually knew Ellaria was about to kill Myrcella and let it happen because he has a plan
-Bronn loves the bad pussy so much that he's betraying Jaime
-Jaime is on a ship full of Martells and is now a prisoner without knowing it
-Trystane is on his way to Meereen to offer Dany the man who killed her father as a gift in order to win her hand
-When they get to Meereen they only find Tyrion there, oops (too bad the show left his relationship with Jaime on such a good note)
-Trystane is impatient waiting for Dany to return so he decides to release the dragons himself and gets Quentyn'd.

This would actually make for some really interesting dynamics next season. Therefore, it will not happen.

 

[Iksenpets]

I don't have a link but it was basically:

-Doran actually knew Ellaria was about to kill Myrcella and let it happen because he has a plan
-Bronn loves the bad pussy so much that he's betraying Jaime
-Jaime is on a ship full of Martells and is now a prisoner without knowing it
-Trystane is on his way to Meereen to offer Dany the man who killed her father as a gift in order to win her hand
-When they get to Meereen they only find Tyrion there, oops (too bad the show left his relationship with Jaime on such a good note)
-Trystane is impatient waiting for Dany to return so he decides to release the dragons himself and gets Quentyn'd.

It would be fun but I doubt it'll happen.

He did and said no such thing. He only cancelled 2 appearances.

This is actually kind of cool, but I think if they were actually doing this they would have revealed it in the finale. A scene of Trystane telling Jaime "Oh we're not going to King's Landing!" Or something.

 

[Marz]

Stannis' sloppy end is mostly D&D's fault (99% I'd say), but that 1% is our fault for not buying into all the reasons they tried to give for us to hate him.

-Varys detested his blood magic, and it was at least heavily implied that a victory at King's Landing would lead to Sansa's death too.
-His red woman killed Renly, effectively ending the Stark/Baratheon alliance that would have probably destroyed the Lannisters.
-He agreed to sacrifice Gendry to further his claim to the throne.
-He killed Mance Rayder, who was an honorable man. Mance wasn't a *real* king and couldn't have convinced the wildlings to follow Stannis anyway.
-He was always willing to sacrifice his own army and had to be pulled off the battlefield, even when facing certain annihilation. Some may say this one is a good quality, others not so much.


The bottom line is that after all these things, people were still saying he was a total badass who should be king.

D&D must have thought "Damn, what can we do to make this guy unlikeable? Hey George, didn't you say Shireen gets burned in the novels? Let's have him do that!"

Mance Rayder was a deserter of the Nights watch.

 

[Massa]

Mance Rayder was a deserter of the Nights watch.

Still, burning people alive is evil.

 

[Marz]

Still, burning people alive is evil.

Sure, but Mance Rayder is not "honorable", he's an oathbreaker.

 

[Victarion]

He's in Belfast with other actors, probably rehearsing, but they're not shooting yet.

How do you know this? I wanna see the receipt.

 

[zethren]

A cool theory my buddy and I were considering about Stannis and Brienne is that she doesn't actually execute him. Not only does the scene change as she swings the sword, but I don't think she has it in her to actually kill him in his pathetic state. I think she will opt to leave him there to die.

This would be a great moment for Lady Stoneheart to actually show up in the show and confront her.

 

[Speevy]

Sure, but Mance Rayder is not "honorable", he's an oathbreaker.

Okay, Mance Rayder is selfless, unlike Stannis.

 

[Lothar]

I just found the best Game of Thrones video reviews.
Dem Thrones A Real Negus Season Finale Review

 

[NeoGiff]

A cool theory my buddy and I were considering about Stannis and Brienne is that she doesn't actually execute him. Not only does the scene change as she swings the sword, but I don't think she has it in her to actually kill him in his pathetic state. I think she will opt to leave him there to die.

This would be a great moment for Lady Stoneheart to actually show up in the show and confront her.

A great moment for Lady Stoneheart to show up in the North. Outside Winterfell. I don't think so.

 

[Iksenpets]

A great moment for Lady Stoneheart to show up in the North. Outside Winterfell. I don't think so.

I think we all need to accept at this point that no matter how much you may like Stoneheart in the books, there is no possible "great point" for her to show up in the show now. It's too late. There is no way to insert her into the story this late without it being awful.

Like, if she showed up at Winterfell now, there would have to be like five minutes of "Yes, you see this is Catelyn Stark, who we revived outside the Twins after the Freys dumped her body in the river using the power of the Lord of Light, which you may recall from our previous experiences raising Beric Dondarrion from the dead. So anyway, that all happened a while ago, and then we abandoned our mission in the Riverlands and spent the past two seasons slowly trekking North because the Lord's chosen Catelyn Stark ordered us to, and now we find ourselves here, with you! I just want to make sure, did you get all of that? I know it's a lot to soak in."

 

[Ape Gone Insane]

Lady Stoneheart is a shit character and plot device, and the fact that she wasn't in the show probably tells you she doesn't amount to much in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Iksenpets]

Lady Stoneheart is a shit character and plot device, and the fact that she wasn't in the show probably tells you she doesn't amount to much in the grand scheme of things.

To be fair regarding the possible relevance of that plot [season 6 casting]:

Spoiler

It does look like they're casting a new Brotherhood leader to replace her. He'll just be a murderous jerk for the normal reasons, instead of being a revenge zombie.

 

[Real Hero]

Lady Stoneheart is a shit character and plot device, and the fact that she wasn't in the show probably tells you she doesn't amount to much in the grand scheme of things.

Karl Tanner is a shit plot device. Stoneheart is super creepy and is little bit of hope for the good guys but in a suitably warped way for the series.

 

[Rentahamster]

Happy father's day, Stannis.

 

[Enosh]

Still, burning people alive is evil.

dany burned alive:
-the witch
-all the slavers in that first city
-warlocks in Quarth (or whatever it was)
-that one noble after they killed Barristan

yet no one ever says it was evil most people say how badass she was doing those things

 

[Fuzzy]

dany burned alive:
-the witch
-all the slavers in that first city
-warlocks in Quarth (or whatever it was)
-that one noble after they killed Barristan

yet no one ever says it was evil most people say how badass she was doing those things

No one?

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

No one?

Haha, I hadn't seen this.

I hate Dany.

 

[Speevy]

Happy father's day, Stannis.

Well, at least he kept her safe from Ramsay. Though burning and flaying are both horrible.

 

[Enosh]

No one?
http://i.imgur.com/g159BjP.jpg

well I mean there is an anti Dany force especially among book readers, but ask your average show watcher and they praise Dany for the stuff Stannis has done
but the incest thing is certainly the most hilarious one, don't think the show ever made it quite clear that she is borne of incest just as Joffrey was ^^

 

[Lothar]

That image misses one key point. Dany locking her handmaiden in a vault to starve to death.

Joffrey's way of dealing with traitors: Quick beheading.
Dany's way of dealing with traitors: Have them starve to death.

 

[Kain]

No one?

This is amazing.

 

[oti]

I went to see George R. R. Martin today, a friend ditched another friend so she asked me to go with her. I have not read the books so I'm just a traveler over here.

He read a chapter from his new book (Winds of something). I didn't understand any of that (I only watch the show). Anyhow, the words "cunt" and "spanking" were in that chapter so there you go.

Spoiler

Some "Faith of Dorne" princess (the term sandsnake fell quite often so i guess that) travelled towards some other place and she talked about a Dragon that is in Westeros and a Deanerys who was there 100 years ago (what?) and how she wanted to have sex with a dark guy but couldn't because he wasnt royal. Typical Game of Thrones stuff I guess.

 

[Iksenpets]

I went to see George R. R. Martin today, a friend ditched another friend so she asked me to go with her. I have not read the books so I'm just a traveler over here.

He read a chapter of his new book (Winds of something). I didn't understand any of that (I only watch the show). Anyhow, the words "cunt" and "spanking" were in that chapter so there you go.

Spoiler

Some "Faith of Dorne" princess (the term sandsnake fell quite often so i guess that) travelled towards some other place and she talked about a Dragon that is in Westeros and a Deanerys who was there 100 years ago (what?) and how she wanted to have sex with a dark guy but couldn't because he wasnt royal. Typical Game of Thrones stuff I guess.

Oh man, haha. Yeah the book Dorne plot is very, very different from the show and has a lot of major characters who don't exist in the show I think that chapter has been read before at other cons before so nothing new there, but I love hearing about how incomprehensible it was coming from a show-only perspective, lol.

Spoiler

The princess who is narrating that chapter, the guy she wants to bang, and the people she is traveling to go see are all not in the show, and in all likelihood never will be.

 

[Speevy]

Crap, tried to do a table. Work computers suck. Will do when I get home.

 

[Moff]

well I mean there is an anti Dany force especially among book readers, but ask your average show watcher and they praise Dany for the stuff Stannis has done
but the incest thing is certainly the most hilarious one, don't think the show ever made it quite clear that she is borne of incest just as Joffrey was ^^

well that's because it doesnt matter for dany and for joffrey it means he has no claim to the throne he is sitting on. incest itself is not that frowned upon, even in the books most are like "yeah the targaryens did that"

btw. that picture of clarke in that comparison is hilarious

 

[oti]

Oh man, haha. Yeah the book Dorne plot is very, very different from the show and has a lot of major characters who don't exist in the show. I think that chapter has been read before at other cons before so nothing new there, but I love hearing about how incomprehensible it was coming from a show-only perspective, lol.

So I recorded all that stuff for nothing? There goes my retirement plan.

 

[Euron]

I went to see George R. R. Martin today, a friend ditched another friend so she asked me to go with her. I have not read the books so I'm just a traveler over here.

He read a chapter of his new book (Winds of something). I didn't understand any of that (I only watch the show). Anyhow, the words "cunt" and "spanking" were in that chapter so there you go.

Spoiler

Some "Faith of Dorne" princess (the term sandsnake fell quite often so i guess that) travelled towards some other place and she talked about a Dragon that is in Westeros and a Deanerys who was there 100 years ago (what?) and how she wanted to have sex with a dark guy but couldn't because he wasnt royal. Typical Game of Thrones stuff I guess.

I think I know what you're talking about. Spoiler tagging because there's some Winds of Winter stuff.

Spoiler

The chapter was from the point of view of Arianne Martell. She's the main Dornish Character in the books but was cut from the show and essentially replaced by Ellaria Sand (Ellaria and the show sand snakes are pretty bad if not flat out terrible though). Arianne is the daughter and oldest child of Doran Martell. Under Dornish law, women can inherit land and titles over males if they are older, making Arianne the heir to Dorne.

At the end of book 4, A Feast for Crows, Doran reveals his plan to ally with the Targaryens. His plan is laughable in hindsight because he sent his awkward teenage son Quentyn (also cut from the show) to marry Dany. She rejected him and he tried to free her dragons, leading to him burning alive.

The Dragon that is mentioned isn't an actual dragon but an alleged Targaryen. In the books (the character was cut from the show), Tyrion discovers a young boy on his trip to Meereen and the boy is revealed to (allegedly) be Aegon Targaryen, the baby that the Mountain murdered in King's Landing that pissed off Oberyn so much. Apparently Varys swapped the babys and sent Aegon to Essos to be trained to become an ideal king. At the end of book 5, A Dance with Dragons, Aegon gains an army of mercenaries and sets foot in Westeros. At the beginning of Book 6, Aegon takes Storm's End (the Baratheon Castle) which catches Doran's interest. Since his plan to get Danaerys failed, he wants Arianne to go see if Aegon is legit and marry him, allying Aegon with Dorne.

Many book readers believe that Varys isn't telling the truth and Aegon isn't actually a Targaryen but a fake. Show only watchers won't need to worry about this because the whole plotline has been cut from the show. Tyrion hasn't even met Dany yet in the books that's how different things are.

So yeah completely different from the show.

 

[oti]

I think I know what you're talking about. Spoiler tagging because there's some Winds of Winter stuff.

Spoiler

The chapter was from the point of view of Arianne Martell. She's the main Dornish Character in the books but was cut from the show and essentially replaced by Ellaria Sand (Ellaria and the show sand snakes are pretty bad if not flat out terrible though). Arianne is the daughter and oldest child of Doran Martell. Under Dornish law, women can inherit land and titles over males if they are older, making Arianne the heir to Dorne.

At the end of book 4, A Feast for Crows, Doran reveals his plan to ally with the Targaryens. His plan is laughable in hindsight because he sent his awkward teenage son Quentyn (also cut from the show) to marry Dany. She rejected him and he tried to free her dragons, leading to him burning alive.

The Dragon that is mentioned isn't an actual dragon but an alleged Targaryen. In the books (the character was cut from the show), Tyrion discovers a young boy on his trip to Meereen and the boy is revealed to (allegedly) be Aegon Targaryen, the baby that the Mountain murdered in King's Landing that pissed off Oberyn so much. Apparently Varys swapped the babys and sent Aegon to Essos to be trained to become an ideal king. At the end of book 5, A Dance with Dragons, Aegon gains an army of mercenaries and sets foot in Westeros. At the beginning of Book 6, Aegon takes Storm's End (the Baratheon Castle) which catches Doran's interest. Since his plan to get Danaerys failed, he wants Arianne to go see if Aegon is legit and marry him, allying Aegon with Dorne.

Many book readers believe that Varys isn't telling the truth and Aegon isn't actually a Targaryen but a fake. Show only watchers won't need to worry about this because the whole plotline has been cut from the show. Tyrion hasn't even met Dany yet in the books that's how different things are.

So yeah completely different from the show.

Yep, that's it. Thank you for clearing this up.

 

[Speevy]

If someone isn't who they're supposed to be, that's a waste of show time.

Fake Targaryens, Fake Starks, it's just soap opera nonsense disguised with good writing.

 

[Speevy]

I thought Storm's End was a location and Dragonstone was the castle. I'm probably wrong though.

 

[Real Hero]

If someone isn't who they're supposed to be, that's a waste of show time.

Fake Targaryens, Fake Starks, it's just soap opera nonsense disguised with good writing.

ehhh it works with Varys though. His setting up a fake seems like a plan he would have.

 

[Moff]

I thought Storm's End was a location and Dragonstone was the castle. I'm probably wrong though.

no dragonstone was the home of the targaryens when they invaded, storm's end is the castle where stannis held out that long siege, it's much farther in the south

 

[foxtrot3d]

I thought Storm's End was a location and Dragonstone was the castle. I'm probably wrong though.

What?

Storm's End is a Castle, the seat of House Baratheon who rule the Stormlands.

Dragonstone used to be the seat of the heir to the throne located on the Blackwater. One of the reasons Stannis was always upset with Robert was because he took Storm's End from him, the family seat, and gave him Dragonstone while giving Renly Storm's End instead. Robert said this was to "honor" him since he was the heir at the time as he hadn't had any children with Cercei, but he never corrected the situation after Cercei gave "him" children.

 

[A_Gorilla]

Does the fact that D&D cut Aegon from the show confirm he is a fake?

 

[Real Hero]

Does the fact that D&D cut Aegon from the show confirm he is a fake?

Not really, more he like he dies before the very end, which they are eager to skip to

 

[cartoon_soldier]

So, Meereen again

I think we still see everybody coming together in Meereen next season still?

Tyrion and Varys start out doing a decent job but eventually face a lot of hurdles. Maybe we do see an external threat to Meereen in S6 too with Yunkai threatening to "free the masters".

Dany gets with the Khalesar (marries?) and convinces them to sack Meereen to free her remaining dragons.

Spoiler

Victorian reaches Meereen too

In a REPEAT of S2, as Tyrion/Varys are resigned to the upcoming assault of Yunkish army on Meereen just as shit is about to go down Dany arrives with Dario and Jorah and the Khalesar army in tow with Drogon and wreaks shit. Victorian arrives near the same time I am putting forth.

Spoiler

I don't think Jamie's ship is heading to Meeren. They are going to go to KL.

After that Dany makes the decision to go to Westeros. With the Unsullied + Dario's sell swords + Yunkish army captured and made to join her + Khalesar + Victorian's ships (but not Victorian himself). Dany now advised by Tyrion and Varys along with Jorah/Dario prepares to invade Westeros with a BIG FUCKING ARMY and 3 DRAGONS and we see the quickest capture of westeros seen till date.

 

[Lothar]

Sounds like a chapter that should be cut. Stop wasting our time with Dorne, book and show.

 

[Iksenpets]

Does the fact that D&D cut Aegon from the show confirm he is a fake?

I don't think so, even though I do believe he's a fake. All it confirms is they've come up with some way to tell the story that cuts events that Aegon is a part of and/or assigns them to other characters.

And I agree that all the fake identities in the books are pretty crappy. It works ok in the first few books with Theon burning the miller's boys and the Arstan Whitebeard stuff, but GRRM goes kind of nuts with it after that, and one of the show's smarter changes has been cutting all of that, even if in the case of switching Sansa with fArya, the cure ended up being worse than the disease.

 

[Mr Git]

Happy father's day, Stannis.

 

[Ratrat]

No one?

Is it just me or is most of this not even true? I do find it amusing how many characters are bastards, born of incest or rape in the series.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

"Augh. I burned my tongue. This hurts"

 

[A_Gorilla]

Is it just me or is most of this not even true? I

I eagerly await your explanations.

 

[Euron]

Does the fact that D&D cut Aegon from the show confirm he is a fake?

Not necessarily. I just think that any character cut from the show (aside from one of the Tyrell brothers) won't survive TWOW and D&D won't waste time introducing and killing off so many characters over the course of a season or two and using up even more of the budget. Any character killed off early also won't survive TWOW and more importantly they died early to free up the casting budget for next season.

That's easily the worst part of the show: The Budget. They just don't have enough money to cast every character and film every necessary scene. Everyone wants HBO to provide enough money for at least 13 episodes a season but that won't happen. After all, it's not like the number viewers will increase automatically with a bigger budget. They'll just continue to do as they're doing and not lose any money.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

if characters not being included means directly that they die, then shit. spoilers for everyone lol