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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 6 Offseason Thread

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http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-costume-designer-april-803895

GoT's new costume designer for season 6 is April Ferry.

On top of that -- there will be a new costume designer: veteran costumer April Ferry. Game of Thrones' colorful characters — who all have their own sartorial themes — will be in good hands: Ferry won an Emmy for the costumes for HBO's historical hit Rome. She's also worked on CBS' Extant and Netflix's Hemlock Grove, as well as many films, including Mask, Donnie Darko and Jurassic World
 

bengraven

Member
I actually think that Stannis' entire story is pretty good and that it's finished. It has a beginning, ending, it has a theme, a warning. It's a good story. Hearing people online (not really here) complaining about how it wasn't worth it makes me think they're either jumping on the GOT hate bandwagon or they have no idea of story.

A believer in justice. Raised up by his new advisor to believe he was the second coming of a god - though still having doubts in representation of Davos, kills his own people for faith in this god, eventually abandons his home, takes on a huge debt, takes a massive risk all to gain a foothold on power in order to exact JUSTICE. Overcomes his doubts to put his faith in the god one last time and it means he sacrifices everything including his own daughter and the lives of his last men.

Finally beaten he realizes it was all a bullshit farce. His every failure including the last one was due to trusting her. Maybe his last thoughts were to curse the woman for giving him faith but somehow I doubt he was feeling sorry for himself - it's not in his character. When Brienne shows up he honors her by treating her like a proper soldier instead of condescending her like others do.

He has had enough - he failed and this woman was here to fulfill an oath - something he can respect and admire being an honorable man gone wrong. When he admits to the shadow magic with that stone cold truthfulness, unapologetically, he's saying "I put faith in shadows and I deserve what you've come to dish out and I'm ready to go".

"Do your duty". He treats her like a soldier and she even hesitates a moment. Maybe she realizes that he was a man of honor afterall, but it doesn't excuse his mistakes that caused the death of his brother, daughter, his wife, thousands of men he threw away whether directly or not. He dies honorably and WITH JUSTICE.

Poetic I think, though I'm likely in the minority.


I've loved the designs on the show, even when I felt it didn't FIT the show. I'm actually excited to see how it changes the next couple years, though I think it's strange to change so close to the end.

I'd like to see them go a bit more classical fantasy while retaining the ornate details and originality.
 

Euron

Member
He is losing in the books too, if anything the season confirms that
He'll beat the Freys in the books but I don't think he'll lose to the Boltons. I really do think the GNC is true and the Northern Houses will first take down Roose then betray Stannis when everything's done. They'll probably just simplify things in the show by having Brienne, Sansa, and Theon go to get Rickon and have the northerners rally around them against the Boltons.

I actually think that Stannis' entire story is pretty good and that it's finished. It has a beginning, ending, it has a theme, a warning. It's a good story. Hearing people online (not really here) complaining about how it wasn't worth it makes me think they're either jumping on the GOT hate bandwagon or they have no idea of story.

A believer in justice. Raised up by his new advisor to believe he was the second coming of a god - though still having doubts in representation of Davos, kills his own people for faith in this god, eventually abandons his home, takes on a huge debt, takes a massive risk all to gain a foothold on power in order to exact JUSTICE. Overcomes his doubts to put his faith in the god one last time and it means he sacrifices everything including his own daughter and the lives of his last men.

Finally beaten he realizes it was all a bullshit farce. His every failure including the last one was due to trusting her. Maybe his last thoughts were to curse the woman for giving him faith but somehow I doubt he was feeling sorry for himself - it's not in his character. When Brienne shows up he honors her by treating her like a proper soldier instead of condescending her like others do.

He has had enough - he failed and this woman was here to fulfill an oath - something he can respect and admire being an honorable man gone wrong. When he admits to the shadow magic with that stone cold truthfulness, unapologetically, he's saying "I put faith in shadows and I deserve what you've come to dish out and I'm ready to go".

"Do your duty". He treats her like a soldier and she even hesitates a moment. Maybe she realizes that he was a man of honor afterall, but it doesn't excuse his mistakes that caused the death of his brother, daughter, his wife, thousands of men he threw away whether directly or not. He dies honorably and WITH JUSTICE.

Poetic I think, though I'm likely in the minority.
I don't have too much of a problem with what you're talking about but my main issue is the fact that Ramsay is still alive and the Boltons have faced pretty much zero consequences for anything this season. If Stannis killed Ramsay in battle but was overwhelmed by the rest of the Bolton forces, then I'd be fine with that arc.
 

Speevy

Banned
For those curious about the costume work in Rome



art4.jpg
 

Iksenpets

Banned
I actually think that Stannis' entire story is pretty good and that it's finished. It has a beginning, ending, it has a theme, a warning. It's a good story. Hearing people online (not really here) complaining about how it wasn't worth it makes me think they're either jumping on the GOT hate bandwagon or they have no idea of story.

A believer in justice. Raised up by his new advisor to believe he was the second coming of a god - though still having doubts in representation of Davos, kills his own people for faith in this god, eventually abandons his home, takes on a huge debt, takes a massive risk all to gain a foothold on power in order to exact JUSTICE. Overcomes his doubts to put his faith in the god one last time and it means he sacrifices everything including his own daughter and the lives of his last men.

Finally beaten he realizes it was all a bullshit farce. His every failure including the last one was due to trusting her. Maybe his last thoughts were to curse the woman for giving him faith but somehow I doubt he was feeling sorry for himself - it's not in his character. When Brienne shows up he honors her by treating her like a proper soldier instead of condescending her like others do.

He has had enough - he failed and this woman was here to fulfill an oath - something he can respect and admire being an honorable man gone wrong. When he admits to the shadow magic with that stone cold truthfulness, unapologetically, he's saying "I put faith in shadows and I deserve what you've come to dish out and I'm ready to go".

"Do your duty". He treats her like a soldier and she even hesitates a moment. Maybe she realizes that he was a man of honor afterall, but it doesn't excuse his mistakes that caused the death of his brother, daughter, his wife, thousands of men he threw away whether directly or not. He dies honorably and WITH JUSTICE.

Poetic I think, though I'm likely in the minority.



I've loved the designs on the show, even when I felt it didn't FIT the show. I'm actually excited to see how it changes the next couple years, though I think it's strange to change so close to the end.

I'd like to see them go a bit more classical fantasy while retaining the ornate details and originality.

I think I just have trouble squaring that story with the path he's seemed to be on in the book, where he's always been more skeptical of faith and where in Dance he seems to be moving consistently further away from it with Melisandre not around — refusing burnings during the snowstorm in his camp and [preview chapter]
apparently agreeing to execute Theon in Northern fashion rather than burning.
. Not saying Stannis' arc can't eventually go back in that direction, but it would take more time and events that really break him down, way more so than what the show gave him.

And on the costuming front, I've always liked how non-traditionally-fantasy-style Clapton's designs were. They were really completely unique, while still always feeling pretty grounded and real.
 
It won't though, there's literally no way Stannis will lose in the books.
Sure about that? One of the things the series does really well is changing circumstances and the domino effect of those. That's basically Robb from his height of power in mid-ACOK until his death and the show did something similar with Stannis (although in a much quicker manner).

At this point in the book, yes it looks like Stannis has many advantages, but there are certainly a lot of moving parts, nothing is written in stone.
It's just a description of the
flashback
. There's no point in giving more information than that. But in saying that, you or I could easily have come up with the exact same thing and it's be just as exciting. It's just due to the nature of the scene's legendary potential that this is even remotely exciting at all. Going forward, anything about any potential flashbacks should be taken with a grain of salt. Nothing is confirmed at this point, and everything is most likely bullshit (as great as Hardhome in the show was, remember that rumour about Tormund's sacrifice etc.?).
Outside of the Tormund aspect though, the major beats of that played out pretty much the same IIRC?
I'll admit that his final line is great though. Go on, do your duty
The final arc of Stannis was definitely rushed in the last few episodes, but I thought that last scene was great. Stannis to the very end, Dillane was great.
Nice, the more people from Rome the better (where is my alt universe where that ran for more than 22 eps?)
 

Speevy

Banned
I think every character in the story is propped up to be someone they never were.


It's not interesting to see things on screen you knew would happen. It's interesting to see the real world challenge what you think you know.

This is one of the reasons why I hate Ramsay so much. He's never challenged on any level whatsoever.
 

Iksenpets

Banned
Outside of the Tormund aspect though, the major beats of that played out pretty much the same IIRC?

I don't think other than "there's a battle at Hardhome and the White Walkers show up" there was anything really accurate in there, and we all knew about there being a battle at that point. It also claimed that Rattleshirt was selling wildlings as slaves, which wasn't true at all. It was just an embellishment on things people already knew.
 
I don't think other than "there's a battle at Hardhome and the White Walkers show up" there was anything really accurate in there, and we all knew about there being a battle at that point. It also claimed that Rattleshirt was selling wildlings as slaves, which wasn't true at all. It was just an embellishment on things people already knew.

Didn't it describe Jon escaping and the end of the episode was the stare down with the Night's King?

That could have all be guessed though.
 

Iksenpets

Banned
Didn't it describe Jon escaping and the end of the episode was the stare down with the Night's King?

That could have all be guessed though.

The stare down with the Night's King was already known from a Reddit post from a guy who had leaked details about the season 4 Craster's Keep sequence the previous year. Tormund's death and the slave dealing aspects were the only new bits in that claim, which were both false.
 

Mrbob

Member
Imagine how much this thread would freak if the "All I see is Snow" viewing is for Ramsay.

The true hero we need.

Also, I'm trying to figure out where the Arya story is going. It is cool that she is going to become a faceless person but for what ultimate purpose? At first I thought some of the Arya Stark = AA theories were crazy but who knows. Probably still are but I wouldn't be shocked if George threw in some sort of swerve.
 
Also, I'm trying to figure out where the Arya story is going. It is cool that she is going to become a faceless person but for what ultimate purpose? At first I thought some of the Arya Stark = AA theories were crazy but who knows. Probably still are but I wouldn't be shocked if George threw in some sort of swerve.

"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives." - Ned Stark

In trying to get revenge for her family, Arya has set off on her mission alone. When she's done she's going to be so far gone that she can't come back from it. She will become 'no one' in the end.
 

Mrbob

Member
So she just becomes a contract killer for hire? That seems so boring.

I remember the Ghost of High Heart freaked out when she ran into Arya. Definitely a foreshadowing for Aryas future, but I'm curious to see what happens when her training is done. Now she is a Faceless Man and that's it? How will her story tie back into the events at Westeros.
 

Massa

Member
So she just becomes a contract killer for hire? That seems so boring.

I remember the Ghost of High Heart freaked out when she ran into Arya. Definitely a foreshadowing for Aryas future, but I'm curious to see what happens when her training is done. Now she is a Faceless Man and that's it? How will her story tie back into the events at Westeros.

When Arya met Jaqen he was on his way to the Night's Watch, he was probably intentionally captured and on his way there to do something. After the diversion he went to the Citadel instead.

The Faceless Man are up to something, most likely they'll send Arya to the Night's Watch to do whatever Jaqen wanted to do originally.

There's a theory the FM are after a book about dragons that exists either in the Citadel or the Night's Watch, who knows.
 

munchie64

Member
Nothing in that scene can happen in the books. Varys isn't there and Tyrion would never be ruling Mereen.
You took my comment too literally.
Just for kicks, I looked back at episode 10 and counted the men in the Bolton army. I rounded up in all cases to be generous.

Each cluster of soldiers would appear to have about 30 men. Each row has about 10-12 of these clusters. Some of these clusters are comprised of smaller groups spread out differently. There are four of these rows, but to be fair, let's call it five since there are different formations and different clumping.

So counting 30X12X5, we get about 1,800 cavalry men.

Stannis' army is almost impossible to count, but if we are to assume from character statements that he started with 6,500 men, lost 500 storm crows at the beginning, then lost another 3,000 plus all his horses, he's down to 3,000. Now let's assume half of his men died of starvation. So he's down to 1,500 horseless men.

Yeah...they did a really bad job of conveying this battle.
I have no idea what you're talking about. More people+horses=they win
 
I think Arya has to end up killing someone important, or else her Faceless Men arc will have been a colossal waste of time. The show has definitively stated that she'll meet Melisandre again, so there's that, I guess.

Yep. Never mind the character, I haven't felt the loss of an actor in the show so badly since Sean Bean.

Sky Atlantic are showing a rerun of the entire season right now. I just caught a Stannis scene and it finally hit me that he isn't going to be a part of the show anymore. I've never been part of the "Stannis the Mannis" movement but Dillane managed to make him one of the most complex and intriguing characters to me, in spite of the often questionable writing for his character. Really going to miss him.
 

Speevy

Banned
You took my comment too literally.

I have no idea what you're talking about. More people+horses=they win

That wasn't my point at all. I'm saying that there aren't that many men in Roose's army, and they didn't go through the trouble of showing how Stannis had lost that many men.

The visual showed that Stannis was outmatched, but the story did not.
 

Speevy

Banned
I think Arya has to end up killing someone important, or else her Faceless Men arc will have been a colossal waste of time. The show has definitively stated that she'll meet Melisandre again, so there's that, I guess.



Sky Atlantic are showing a rerun of the entire season right now. I just caught a Stannis scene and it finally hit me that he isn't going to be a part of the show anymore. I've never been part of the "Stannis the Mannis" movement but Dillane managed to make him one of the most complex and intriguing characters to me, in spite of the often questionable writing for his character. Really going to miss him.

Your username is hilarious.

I want to have mine changed to "Oysters, clams, and cockles!"
 

bengraven

Member
I don't have too much of a problem with what you're talking about but my main issue is the fact that Ramsay is still alive and the Boltons have faced pretty much zero consequences for anything this season. If Stannis killed Ramsay in battle but was overwhelmed by the rest of the Bolton forces, then I'd be fine with that arc.

The Boltons are going to get their due. They're obviously a major player in the story and we still have two books and seasons yet.

Never fear, even though GRRM is trying to be real about who lives and dies in war, he still gives us, as he calls it, those little pieces of "joy".

f5697dbc7ea5404dc0f44c8c35378836.gif

janos-slynt-1431438307.gif

anigif_enhanced-buzz-20102-1394625554-5.gif


Just wait. Their deaths will be spectacular. The North fucking remembers.

I think I just have trouble squaring that story with the path he's seemed to be on in the book, where he's always been more skeptical of faith and where in Dance he seems to be moving consistently further away from it with Melisandre not around — refusing burnings during the snowstorm in his camp and [preview chapter]
apparently agreeing to execute Theon in Northern fashion rather than burning.
. Not saying Stannis' arc can't eventually go back in that direction, but it would take more time and events that really break him down, way more so than what the show gave him.

He was a skeptic and he finally gave in to belief to save himself. But as bad as things were going, by finally giving in to Mel's demands he permanently fucked himself. He lost half his men and his wife, his last family, killed herself. And he had lost his child. He gave in to faith and lost everything.

I think that's brilliant.

As for the books, I'm not sure how they're going to do it - as you pointed out we have some changes. I wonder if this is what he meant by "I came up with a twist with a character DnD already have gone their own direction with that involves about 3-4 people". Theon, Asha (isn't she still with them?), a few others...

Imagine if he doesn't die in the books.
 

munchie64

Member
That wasn't my point at all. I'm saying that there aren't that many men in Roose's army, and they didn't go through the trouble of showing how Stannis had lost that many men.

The visual showed that Stannis was outmatched, but the story did not.
But that's the point. It's a visual storytelling medium. Combined with all the plot points that are clearly mentioned (desertion and starvation) it works fine. At least to the point that anyone can understand what's going on.
 

Corpsepyre

Banned
I actually think that Stannis' entire story is pretty good and that it's finished. It has a beginning, ending, it has a theme, a warning. It's a good story. Hearing people online (not really here) complaining about how it wasn't worth it makes me think they're either jumping on the GOT hate bandwagon or they have no idea of story.

A believer in justice. Raised up by his new advisor to believe he was the second coming of a god - though still having doubts in representation of Davos, kills his own people for faith in this god, eventually abandons his home, takes on a huge debt, takes a massive risk all to gain a foothold on power in order to exact JUSTICE. Overcomes his doubts to put his faith in the god one last time and it means he sacrifices everything including his own daughter and the lives of his last men.

Finally beaten he realizes it was all a bullshit farce. His every failure including the last one was due to trusting her. Maybe his last thoughts were to curse the woman for giving him faith but somehow I doubt he was feeling sorry for himself - it's not in his character. When Brienne shows up he honors her by treating her like a proper soldier instead of condescending her like others do.

He has had enough - he failed and this woman was here to fulfill an oath - something he can respect and admire being an honorable man gone wrong. When he admits to the shadow magic with that stone cold truthfulness, unapologetically, he's saying "I put faith in shadows and I deserve what you've come to dish out and I'm ready to go".

"Do your duty". He treats her like a soldier and she even hesitates a moment. Maybe she realizes that he was a man of honor afterall, but it doesn't excuse his mistakes that caused the death of his brother, daughter, his wife, thousands of men he threw away whether directly or not. He dies honorably and WITH JUSTICE.

Poetic I think, though I'm likely in the minority.



I've loved the designs on the show, even when I felt it didn't FIT the show. I'm actually excited to see how it changes the next couple years, though I think it's strange to change so close to the end.

I'd like to see them go a bit more classical fantasy while retaining the ornate details and originality.

Thank you for this. It's what I've been telling people myself, and they can't fathom it still.
 

bengraven

Member
Thank you for this. It's what I've been telling people myself, and they can't fathom it still.

Gotta have at least one person who agrees with me! Thanks!

*** Except in the show. Where the North consists entirely of Ramsay Snow and his misfit brigade.

This is very true. I'm sure the complicated nature of the books and the Umbers and Mormonts and Manderlys and now the Thenns since that, I believe Hornwood?, married that fuckin' Thenn. And the wildlings.

I wonder how the wildlings living beyond the wall will affect things in book 6.



Also;

 

XAL

Member
Most of the priests of R'hllor are really sinister. Melisandre isn't the only one, though she also seems fairly genuine in her beliefs. Moqorro is scary as shit tho.



Yeah, Jon flexing his burnt hand happens like once or twice a chapter in every single one of his chapters across all of the books.

True. But then he has that dream fighting Others with a burning sword...
 

bengraven

Member
God, I was watching the Tyrion in Mereen scenes on Youtube.

I canNOT wait for Tyrion and Varys's story next year. They're bromance is actually touching. They remind me of a more vicious, intelligent, and snarky Fitz and the Fool.
 

Iksenpets

Banned
The Boltons are going to get their due. They're obviously a major player in the story and we still have two books and seasons yet.

Never fear, even though GRRM is trying to be real about who lives and dies in war, he still gives us, as he calls it, those little pieces of "joy".

f5697dbc7ea5404dc0f44c8c35378836.gif

janos-slynt-1431438307.gif

anigif_enhanced-buzz-20102-1394625554-5.gif


Just wait. Their deaths will be spectacular. The North fucking remembers.



He was a skeptic and he finally gave in to belief to save himself. But as bad as things were going, by finally giving in to Mel's demands he permanently fucked himself. He lost half his men and his wife, his last family, killed herself. And he had lost his child. He gave in to faith and lost everything.

I think that's brilliant.

As for the books, I'm not sure how they're going to do it - as you pointed out we have some changes. I wonder if this is what he meant by "I came up with a twist with a character DnD already have gone their own direction with that involves about 3-4 people". Theon, Asha (isn't she still with them?), a few others...

Imagine if he doesn't die in the books.

Yeah, that last paragraph of yours was more my point. I think D&D had their vision for the themes of the Stannis plot, and they're solid themes. Their execution and pacing for those themes at the end was shaky, but I get what they were going for and it is a good and interesting story. I just can't shake the feelings that GRRM is interested in different themes for that character than the show was, and that the plot could go in a pretty radically different direction as a result.

Like I said in my initial post, his whole Northern arc in the books has felt like a consistent growing away from Melisandre, while she is pretty clearly getting close to her pivot away from Stannis and towards Jon. I'm not sure if that story really has space to pivot back to being about him ultimately falling to Melisandre's temptations. Obviously both versions will eventually end with Stannis being removed from contention, but I still really feel like thematically that character is being used to tell fundamentally different stories in the two different versions. Maybe I'll be proven wrong on that though.

And yeah, I could definitely see GRRM's big new twist having to do with Team Dragonstone, and possibly involving the Greyjoy siblings. (Obviously, he's realized that a Stannis/Asha romance is what everyone really wants.) They, along with Sansa/Littlefinger, are really the only groups of characters whose stories have diverted enough to foreclose on a plot change like he hinted at.

I really hope they keep Rila Fukushima going forward.

Maybe she'll show up as [audition tape]:
One of the priestesses the high priestess sends to Meereen. They definitely seem to want to make a distinction between Rila, the street preacher, and the eventual high priestess, though. Parallel to Moqorro/Benerro in the books
 

bengraven

Member
Yeah, that last paragraph of yours was more my point. I think D&D had their vision for the themes of the Stannis plot, and they're solid themes. Their execution and pacing for those themes at the end was shaky, but I get what they were going for and it is a good and interesting story. I just can't shake the feelings that GRRM is interested in different themes for that character than the show was, and that the plot could go in a pretty radically different direction as a result.

Like I said in my initial post, his whole Northern arc in the books has felt like a consistent growing away from Melisandre, while she is pretty clearly getting close to her pivot away from Stannis and towards Jon. I'm not sure if that story really has space to pivot back to being about him ultimately falling to Melisandre's temptations. Obviously both versions will eventually end with Stannis being removed from contention, but I still really feel like thematically that character is being used to tell fundamentally different stories in the two different versions. Maybe I'll be proven wrong on that though.

And yeah, I could definitely see GRRM's big new twist having to do with Team Dragonstone, and possibly involving the Greyjoy siblings. (Obviously, he's realized that a Stannis/Asha romance is what everyone really wants.) They, along with Sansa/Littlefinger, are really the only groups of characters whose stories have diverted enough to foreclose on a plot change like he hinted at.

You made a great point with "GRRM is interested in different themes". Its like how Tolkien's film version of LOTR would have been a radically different paced, scripted film. Hell it would have probably have been a Starz series if he had his way.

I'm dying of curiosity to see GRRM's side of this story. I think someone above said it, but he's probably already failed. Stannis in the novel is likely dead as well and maybe Ramsay forced "Abel" to write that note. We'll still see him since the timelines probably don't work together exactly (since he had to cut two major battles from Dance, I'm guessing one was obviously Winterfell and yet he wanted to keep Jon's death in Dance to even things out. So Jon's last chapter takes place after the first chapters of Winds.)
 

cj_iwakura

Member
Season 6 Episode 1 starts with Castle Black in disarray

Fighting is going on
People are getting Killed
Wildlings vs. NW vs NW

That's all I got.

Ghost is eating Olly, Nymeria and her pack show up to take down Thorne, Davos has his sword through Melisandre's black heart.

Davos leads the loyalist watch against the White Walkers, crushes them, and then rules Westeros in Shireen's name.
 

XAL

Member
Season 6 Episode 1 starts with Wun Wun stepping on Olly's chest, exploding his limbs from the pressure, sending his stupid little head rocketing off into a stone wall - smashing and splattering the wall red with blood and brain

There fixed that for you.
 

Speevy

Banned
Season 6 starts with a cold opening.

A Thenn is enjoying his soup. He talks about how he can't remember when the last time was that he had a meal this good.

*pan over to the heads of Olly, Aliser, and everyone else who participated in the stabbing*

Tormund: "You know, Thenns are all right."

*theme song*
 
Season 6 starts with a cold opening.

A Thenn is enjoying his soup. He talks about how he can't remember when the last time was that he had a meal this good.

*pan over to the heads of Olly, Aliser, and everyone else who participated in the stabbing*

Tormund: "You know, Thenns are all right."

*theme song*

You just ruined season 6 for me. Nothing can top this.
 

Massa

Member
Yeah, that last paragraph of yours was more my point. I think D&D had their vision for the themes of the Stannis plot, and they're solid themes. Their execution and pacing for those themes at the end was shaky, but I get what they were going for and it is a good and interesting story. I just can't shake the feelings that GRRM is interested in different themes for that character than the show was, and that the plot could go in a pretty radically different direction as a result.

Like I said in my initial post, his whole Northern arc in the books has felt like a consistent growing away from Melisandre, while she is pretty clearly getting close to her pivot away from Stannis and towards Jon. I'm not sure if that story really has space to pivot back to being about him ultimately falling to Melisandre's temptations. Obviously both versions will eventually end with Stannis being removed from contention, but I still really feel like thematically that character is being used to tell fundamentally different stories in the two different versions. Maybe I'll be proven wrong on that though.

And yeah, I could definitely see GRRM's big new twist having to do with Team Dragonstone, and possibly involving the Greyjoy siblings. (Obviously, he's realized that a Stannis/Asha romance is what everyone really wants.) They, along with Sansa/Littlefinger, are really the only groups of characters whose stories have diverted enough to foreclose on a plot change like he hinted at.

I think the entire point of GRRM building him up without Melisandre is to set up his complete failure, the part the show did poorly with 20 good men. He'll be completely defeated when she shows up and convinces him to burn Shireen.
 
Based on Theon's TWOW chapter...I'm pretty damn sure the pink letter is a lie.

Obviously D&D are invested in other stories, and based on the S6 casting news it seems like they decided to focus more on the northern rebellion than Stannis. In the books both are tied together obviously, but the show clearly wanted to change that. My problem is how they got there. Piss poor writing, bad characterization, and an overall rushed feel just to get to their finish line. Whatever.

I've said this before but I cringed when Martin mentioned that he had a "new" twist, It sounded desperate to me, like a "hey, look at me" moment right as the show's promo was ramping up. I don't believe Martin is just pulling some twist out his ass though - he says it feels organic and natural to the story, and based on his record I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt. He often uses a Clue analogy, saying if he lays foreshadowing that the butler did it, he's not going to instead say the maid did it. So yea, I trust him. However my problem is the fact that he felt he needed to tell us this. It's a bad look...

I've often said the wait for TWOW doesn't feel nearly as bad as the AFFC/ADWD waits but...if the book isn't out by this time next year, or doesn't have a release date, I'm going to be depressed. Hell I'm going to be super bummed when he admits he can't finish it before S6 premiers. The only good thing about this is that D&D's bullshit has clearly sparked a fire in Martin, and I really get the impression he's working super hard to finish the book.
 
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