Because they did Oberyn well but then spectacularly failed to recognize how they did him well. That's the only reason Dorne is featured in the show at all, to capitalize on Oberyn's popularity.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 6
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
- Start date
- Status
Because they did Oberyn well but then spectacularly failed to recognize how they did him well. That's the only reason Dorne is featured in the show at all, to capitalize on Oberyn's popularity.
Dash_Riprock
Member
agreed.
Vire
Member
Like, I have no problem with criticizing the portrayal of Euron, but I feel like some people pick the wrong things to grind their axe on with the show. We get it, it's not the same.
Well Sansa is a tully and 3rd in line to inherit river run so ... Blackfish has some incentive to come help her out.
Red Arremer
Member
My problem isn't that it's kinslaying in one instance. My problem is that there's 4 instances of witnessed/admitted kinslaying and the reaction is "whatever" or "cool, let's kinslay some more", rather than a believable one. There was no reason for Euron to admit to kinslaying if he could've left it ambiguous. There was no reason for the Sand Snakes to kill the Martells rather than taking them prisoner.
And as News Bot points out: If it was just one instance, then the twist would be there. But they've used the kinslaying twist so often - three times this season alone! - that it just feels more like a lazy copout rather than a proper plot twist. I honestly expect more kinslaying in this season. One of the Freys killing Walder seems very likely. I also could see Loras, being pissed he was left to rot in the Faith's dungeons, shanking Margaery. Maybe Asha throws Theon overboard when realizing what a bitch her brother has become. And Chekhov's Heartsbane indicates that Sam is gonna fuck up at the very least Randall.
It would be nitpicking if kinslaying wasn't built up as such a cardinal sin in the universe.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Psychoward
Banned
man the show really loves dany huh
is there a requirement to end every episode with her doing something "badass"
that peaked at season 3 and hasn't been impactful since, just comes across as incredibly cheesy
could have ended it with benjen or arya
is there a requirement to end every episode with her doing something "badass"
that peaked at season 3 and hasn't been impactful since, just comes across as incredibly cheesy
could have ended it with benjen or arya
Psychoward
Banned
It was the entire foundation of why Jaime is distrusted and now it's thrown out the window for reasons.
hell it was the entire fucking plot of season 1
edit: oh kinslaying not kingslaying lol
still disagree
GentlemanCrow
Member
Who lives in a pyramid inside Mereen?
So, The Waif. TFM are supposed to be no-one, show no emotion as it takes being someone to have emotions, wants, desires etc...
So how come they are chill as fuck about The Waif being spitefull, jealous and having it in for Arya since day one, actually wanting to kill her? It goes against everything they stand for. She is obviously "someone" as she has consistent emotions towards Arya.
So how come they are chill as fuck about The Waif being spitefull, jealous and having it in for Arya since day one, actually wanting to kill her? It goes against everything they stand for. She is obviously "someone" as she has consistent emotions towards Arya.
Red Arremer
Member
She also refers to herself as "I". She's probably a trainee much like Arya, and only senior by a little bit. It would also explain why she's so upset at Jaqen being the Kindly Man towards her. It's basically the "Look at this bitch eating her crackers like she owns this place" kinda situation.
There'll be a showdown between the two and that will probably decide which one is to become a proper Faceless Man.
Vire
Member
In the show, not every family and and culture abides by the same set of rules, as described with the numerous different religions and beliefs. What is seen as a cardinal sin for some, may be seen as proof of worth to others. In the show, Ironborne are portrayed as tough skinned, take no shit and show no feelings kind of people. To be in unphased that their (not particularly loved) ruler was killed by his brother, is not that unbelievable.
Psychoward
Banned
What about the sand snakes?
Vire
Member
Sands snakes are dumb in the books and show, so I don't really have an answer for you. It's basically George RR Martin's shitty Wild Cards sneaking it's way into the Game of Thrones universe.
Blue Ninja
Member
Nah, I think Arya's stepped away from that trajectory completely at this point. She's realized what the Faceless Men really are, and doesn't want to become one of them.
If she defeats the Waif, she'll run back to Westeros.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
yeah she'll probably kill the waifu or spare her life and then the waifu will tell jaqen that arya was killed so they don't go looking. But he aint stupid so that probably wont work. Arya will likely just kill her and jaqen will let her live because he's impressed. Or maybe this is the true test and she becomes a faceless man when she kills her.
Red Arremer
Member
She probably will run back, but I don't think that she's going to be kicked out by the Faceless Men. I think they'll do something with the plot after Arya defeats the Waif.
Or Jaqen will show up and say "The girl is ready" and finally imbue her with the gifts needed to become a faceless man.
"This was your real test all along, Arya Stark. Now you can become a princess!"
-Pyromaniac-
Member
I still think the final shot of this season has to be all the remaining Stark's re-united and claiming that it's their time or some other hype shit. Jon king of the north, Sansa just being a badass, arya finally returned, bran the god of everything.
Red Arremer
Member
Given the show's writing, that's pretty much exactly what I expect.
And Rickon remains forgotten.
Greyworm Flatpants
Vire
Member
Use the power of friendship to defeat the White Walkers and laugh off into the sun.
THE KHAL - EE - SHE
harriet the spy
Member
As much as I like the idea of Olenna playing four dimensional chess with the sparrow, I don't think that's the case. She is clever, but that seems a bit too uncontrollable (compared to sansa in any case). She also seemed very surprised, though she could of course be acting.
I think the High Sparrow genuinely believes everything he says.
I am glad that Arya is leaving the faceless men. I always thought the whole thing gave me serious evil vibes (if only by association - jaeqen is trying to find how to kill dragons -> dragons kill white walkers -> jaeqen is a buddy of the white walkers and the great other), and with her tendency for violence and lack of clemency, I thought the book was setting things up for her to become a half-villain.
Also how the fuck did that young actress have enough cash to afford the faceless men? Isn't a contract basically impossible to afford for anyone but .. actually I have no idea who can afford them in the books.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Barring the Howland Reed theory being right, I would take everything the High Sparrow says as genuine and truthful. He's playing them all and is doing it well.
Nah, I think she's done with the Faceless Men. Jaquen might show up to collect his face, might even give her a going to get back to Westeros.
Nah, I think she's done with the Faceless Men. Jaquen might show up to collect his face, might even give her a going to get back to Westeros.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
it would be extremely unrealistic if rickon lives given everything ramsay has done so he won't be part of it. He also has no usable skills.
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
Has Danny ever addressed in the book or show that Jaime killed her father?
Yes. She and Tyrion discussed it in one of the first scenes of Hardhome (5x08).
I'm telling you they should let me write endings for a season.
Since they've already fucked up the north remembers by turning all the cool houses evil, the other option is Dany.
Dany fights all of Slaver's Bay with her army, but she is wounded during the fighting and presumed dead.
Smoke and fire everywhere, no one is sure who is the victor.
Slowly, men and women stand and you hear this slowly building.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t987p0f9y54
Tyrion and Daario look for Dany.
Jorah appears among the rubble. He has found a cure for the greyscale somehow.
More and more Dothraki and unsullied are seen coming together along with freed men.
Just then, a limping Dany stands up.
Montage of men getting onto ships, thousands of men, a fleet of sellswords, Dothraki, and Unsullied.
You can see it stretch for miles
The music swells as they sail across the Narrow Sea.
They arrive on Westeros' shores. The first wave jumps from their ships and charges onward.
To victory!
*credits*
Since they've already fucked up the north remembers by turning all the cool houses evil, the other option is Dany.
Dany fights all of Slaver's Bay with her army, but she is wounded during the fighting and presumed dead.
Smoke and fire everywhere, no one is sure who is the victor.
Slowly, men and women stand and you hear this slowly building.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t987p0f9y54
Tyrion and Daario look for Dany.
Jorah appears among the rubble. He has found a cure for the greyscale somehow.
More and more Dothraki and unsullied are seen coming together along with freed men.
Just then, a limping Dany stands up.
Montage of men getting onto ships, thousands of men, a fleet of sellswords, Dothraki, and Unsullied.
You can see it stretch for miles
The music swells as they sail across the Narrow Sea.
They arrive on Westeros' shores. The first wave jumps from their ships and charges onward.
To victory!
*credits*
Byakuya769
Member
Nah. Bran didn't change the past, he completed it. The events were a loop and time finally come to theming where he would go back and play his part. Hodor would always hold the door and Bran would always influence him in the way that he did.
The Waif just seems to be the foil to Arya, like the writers just threw her in there to serve as an obstacle in Arya's training to make it seem that much more tough and interesting. Arya has some serious plot armor protecting her right now though so it's likely the Waif is wormfood
Vire
Member
Arya and Tyrion I think have the strongest plot armor in the series.
Man, I live for the day when the term "plot armor" is forgotten.
Bran didn't get the mark until right before he's attacked under the tree. But the point is he always "will have gotten" marked. I use the word "always" there because there's only one timeline.
If we could have talked to the Night King before he attacks during the tree, he would have told us he's waiting to sense his mark appear in the world, but he's certain that it will.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
the phrase plot armour has some serious plot armour
someone give this man a job
It won't be so long as shit writing prevails.
It won't be until shallow, shitty internet criticism dies.
It's almost as poorly used as "Mary sue".
The case against the writing in the show post-S4 has been very eloquently explained and broken down for two years now. The only defenses I've seen in retort are irrelevant points such as "books =/= show", as if anyone who criticizes S5-S6 couldn't have enjoyed the show before them.
Please don't claim any criticism against the show is shallow just because you don't agree with it. "Plot armor" is quite an accurate statement for this show. Take the shirtless Ramsay scene for instance, it makes not one tiny bit of sense on any objective level. It's rightfully criticized as an example of plot armor. Ramsay's continuous and inexplicable good fortunes since then only make it more unbelievable, meanwhile he has precisely zero repercussions. It's all coming up Ramsay. That's plot armor. It serves a purpose (setting up Stark underdogs and audience sense of vengeance), but it's trite and lazy. There's no way around it.
Good point, never heard her use the "a girl" phrase, so inconsistent with the group.
Ramsay's existence is not the result of plot armor, but of the writers' insistence on keeping the iron throne dynamic while the actual iron throne waned in importance.
In other words, they invented another Joffrey, a worse Joffrey who would fit with the increasingly dark and depressing tone the show was taking.
He's a character who is always aware that everyone is trying to kill him, and relishes this to the extent that it infuriates the audience.
I don't think he'll be around much longer though.
In other words, they invented another Joffrey, a worse Joffrey who would fit with the increasingly dark and depressing tone the show was taking.
He's a character who is always aware that everyone is trying to kill him, and relishes this to the extent that it infuriates the audience.
I don't think he'll be around much longer though.
I think you misunderstand me. I'm not defending the show from critics, I'm criticizing the use of the "plot armor" critique in almost all of it's internet uses, in any product, almost ever.
It's a terrible, thoughtless, vague criticism that simplifies a scene or character to the point of absurdity - and adds nothing to any critical examination. Since it rose to popularity on message boards like this one, it's also been widely misused.
I didn't say his existence was. I said his actions were.
You're not really criticizing it, just throwing adjectives at it. How is it misused in regards to the show? At its basest level, it means that the rules of the world bend around a character. This happens quite egregiously with Ramsay, Euron and the Sand Snakes. The ramifications of kinslaying being completely overlooked and downplayed on the show despite being brought up as a pretty big deal in previous seasons is an example of plot armor, because kinslaying is used to give particular characters an advantage which they otherwise would never have in a rational, logically written story. The books do not suffer from this issue because they frame the characters and situations appropriately.
Shamrock7r
Member
Criticizing this show for plot armor has to be one of the more ridiculous things I've heard.
I think the problem most people have with Euron is that he's miscast.
I don't think those anyone who watched the character who was masterfully played by Patrick Malahide would be surprised at his demise at the hands of his own family. He was a bastard.
This show has never used the words "kinslayer" so it's not a thing in the show. So who cares?
I don't think those anyone who watched the character who was masterfully played by Patrick Malahide would be surprised at his demise at the hands of his own family. He was a bastard.
This show has never used the words "kinslayer" so it's not a thing in the show. So who cares?
Both his casting and writing are poor. That's the problem most people have with him.
The show makes a very big deal out of kinslaying. It's the only reason Tyrion is alive, just as it's the only reason Euron is alive in the books.
You're not wrong, but no one cares that he killed Balon and got away with it. Iron islanders are notorious killers.
The first thing Balon asks Theon is whether he killed someone to get his clothing.
Whether it rings true in the books, the characters in this show kill each other and get away with it because they are seen as strong enough to get away with it. That may ring thematically false, but there are always bullies throughout history.
Yankee Ruin X
Member
If Arya becomes a faceless man and is truly no one then does that mean she can never die? We already saw Jaquen die only to just become himself again. Also if the Waif does kill Arya then won't that just mean that they can also be Arya using her face or something like that?
Also from this episode with Brans flashback there was heavy foreshadowing of the wild fire, I am sure that either the three eyed Raven or Bran is the one who inadvertently drove the mad King mad by whispering to him to create the wild fire to burn the White Walkers and it drove him crazy. To even more emphasis how important fire is to fighting their army Benjen rides in with a flaming morning star burning all the attacking wights literally straight after.
Also from this episode with Brans flashback there was heavy foreshadowing of the wild fire, I am sure that either the three eyed Raven or Bran is the one who inadvertently drove the mad King mad by whispering to him to create the wild fire to burn the White Walkers and it drove him crazy. To even more emphasis how important fire is to fighting their army Benjen rides in with a flaming morning star burning all the attacking wights literally straight after.
- Status