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[Speevy]

The show makes a very big deal out of kinslaying. It's the only reason Tyrion is alive, just as it's the only reason Euron is alive in the books.

Tyrion is accused of killing his king, and then chooses to kill his father. Neither of those things are seen as worse in the show because of their family relations. They're seen as horrible because of the powerful positions these men inhabited.

Again, no one in the show says the word kinslaying. What are you talking about?

 

[News Bot]

You're not wrong, but no one cares that he killed Balon and got away with it. Iron islanders are notorious killers.

The first thing Balon asks Theon is whether he killed someone to get his clothing.

Whether it rings true in the books, the characters in this show kill each other and get away with it because they are seen as strong enough to get away with it. That may ring thematically false, but there are always bullies throughout history.

They're not notorious kingslayers. They wouldn't be around if they just killed their leaders all the time...

They kinslay and get away with it because it's convenient to the writers and allows them to set up situations that wouldn't happen otherwise. That's all. It's not thematically false, it's just false, as it throws the rules of the world and established mythology to the wind for the sake of cheap plot contrivance.

Ramsay, Euron and the Sand Snakes are NOT "strong enough." That's the point. That's why it's bad writing. They get away with inexplicable actions with very, very, very bad justifications. In the books, Euron wins over the Iron Islanders because he's not only charismatic but he brought back a lot of loot and more, in the show he wins over the islanders by repeating Yara's proclamation and inserting a few dick jokes. The Sand Snakes get away with it because apparently Doran's people hate him, despite there never being a single hint of this until it was convenient to write him out of the show in one of the most Poochy-esque ways imaginable.

If the show was written with reason and logic in mind, Ramsay, Euron and the Sand Snakes would not succeed against their relatives so easily. But the show writers did not want to formulate actual situations where they could, so they went with the low hanging fruit and reused kinslaying several times, cheapening that aspect of the world.

Tyrion is accused of killing his king, and then chooses to kill his father. Neither of those things are seen as worse in the show because of their family relations. They're seen as horrible because of the powerful positions these men inhabited.

Again, no one in the show says the word kinslaying. What are you talking about?

Tywin says he would've killed Tyrion if he wasn't a Lannister, due to the taboo against kinslaying. Victarion relents on killing Euron in the books for that very same reason, so your excuse is nonsense. Kinslaying is as taboo as incest or violating guest right, the only difference is that in the show only the latter two are shown to have ramifications.

 

[Speevy]

They're not notorious kingslayers. They wouldn't be around if they just killed their leaders all the time...

They kinslay and get away with it because it's convenient to the writers and allows them to set up situations that wouldn't happen otherwise. That's all. It's not thematically false, it's just false, as it throws the rules of the world and established mythology to the wind for the sake of cheap plot contrivance.

Ramsay, Euron and the Sand Snakes are NOT "strong enough." That's the point. That's why it's bad writing. They get away with inexplicable actions with very, very, very bad justifications. In the books, Euron wins over the Iron Islanders because he's not only charismatic but he brought back a lot of loot and more. The Sand Snakes get away with it because apparently Doran's people hate him, despite there never being a single hint of this until it was convenient to write him out of the show in one of the most Poochy-esque ways imaginable.

If the show was written with reason and logic in mind, Ramsay, Euron and the Sand Snakes would not succeed against their relatives so easily. But the show writers did not want to formulate actual situations where they could, so they went with the low hanging fruit and reused kinslaying several times, cheapening that aspect of the world.



Tywin says he would've killed Tyrion if he wasn't a Lannister, due to the taboo against kinslaying. Victarion relents on killing Euron in the books for that very same reason, so your excuse is nonsense.

I don't know why you keep saying "bad writing" as though you're convincing me of something. I agree. I've been making fun of this show's writing longer than you.

What I'm disagreeing with is the OH MY GOD HE JUST KILLED HIS OWN FLESH AND BLOOD HE IS CURSED. No one in the show has ever said this, or ever will. That may not be a good decision, but it was made.

Now, Dorne is horrible and I agree. The less said about that, the better.

Ramsay is totally going to kill his father in the books. You know it and I know it. He will kill him in the most brazen way possible,

I think they just needed to write a better kingsmoot scene with a better Euron, but what's done is done.

 

[Speevy]

Tywin says he would've killed Tyrion if he wasn't a Lannister, due to the taboo against kinslaying. Victarion relents on killing Euron in the books for that very same reason, so your excuse is nonsense. Kinslaying is as taboo as incest or violating guest right, the only difference is that in the show only the latter two are shown to have ramifications.

I believe Tywin wanted to carry Tyrion into the sea for another reason, but I'll not go into tinfoils.

 

[ryseing]

I've been thinking about this for a few days now- Robb's will was included in the show, yes? So what are the chances we see it in the next few episodes? I'd have to say extremely likely.

 

[Speevy]

I've been thinking about this for a few days now- Robb's will was included in the show, yes? So what are the chances we see it in the next few episodes?

I don't think they've ever referred explicitly to Robb Stark's last will and testament.

 

[Brakke]

Tywin says he would've killed Tyrion if he wasn't a Lannister, due to the taboo against kinslaying. Victarion relents on killing Euron in the books for that very same reason, so your excuse is nonsense. Kinslaying is as taboo as incest or violating guest right, the only difference is that in the show only the latter two are shown to have ramifications.

You're definitely stretching. The show hasn't really shown repercussions for violating guest right. Frey was a knucklehead nobody respected before, and remains so now. We didn't have some huge uproar about it. Craster insisted on guest right, I guess, but the mutinous Black Brothers would've gotten bopped for mutiny just as much as they were bopped for breaking guest right.

 

[elrechazado]

You're not wrong, but no one cares that he killed Balon and got away with it. Iron islanders are notorious killers.

The first thing Balon asks Theon is whether he killed someone to get his clothing.

Whether it rings true in the books, the characters in this show kill each other and get away with it because they are seen as strong enough to get away with it. That may ring thematically false, but there are always bullies throughout history.

Umm-going reaving and paying the iron price from some peasants is not analogous to a brother of the king killing your king.

 

[News Bot]

I believe Tywin wanted to carry Tyrion into the sea for another reason, but I'll not go into tinfoils.

He's not Aerys' son. Tywin wanted to kill him because he "killed" his mother and was a dwarf. If he is a secret Targaryan, much of this great drama and familial aspect of the story get forsaken in exchange for... Tyrion riding a dragon and inexplicably failing to spill wine while doing so, maybe. It's lame and not at all interesting.

You're definitely stretching. The show hasn't really shown repercussions for violating guest right. Frey was a knucklehead nobody respected before, and remains so now. We didn't have some huge uproar about it. Craster insisted on guest right, I guess, but the mutinous Black Brothers would've gotten bopped for mutiny just as much as they were bopped for breaking guest right.

As far as I remember, there's a scene in the show where someone mentions that Walder will get what's coming to him for it, since it's abhorrent in the eyes of every major religion in Westeros. Essentially it makes Walder a target to the gods. It's definitely not stretching. The show doesn't have enough screentime to play it up, but that doesn't mean it's not an aspect of the world. The Freys are also not in the North, so they aren't in any immediate range of any repercussions.

 

[Daemul]

I was just looking through the still images of Brans vision on the Asoiaf subreddit and I saw a couple of images mixed in with the Jamie killing the Mad Kings ones where wildfire is being set off, but that never happened during Roberts Rebellion because Jamie stopped it, so I'm guessing it's a vision of the future?

There's a popular theory among the book readers that Cersei will burn down Kings Landing with all the Wildfire that is hidden under it, is it possible that this is what was being foreshadowed? If so then I can't fucking wait. Kings Landing is a dump, nothing of value will be lost.

 

[NeoGiff]

I'm not being a Cogman apologist or anything, because he's as susceptible as anyone to the odd misstep, but that Dany scene was dreadful and really didn't feel like his voice. It was reminiscent of D&D at their worst (which thankfully doesn't happen often, in my opinion).

 

[bodyofanamerican]

So a transcript of the Aeron chapter is out.

https://angrygotfan.com/2016/05/29/the-winds-of-winter-the-damphair-part-1/

This is so incredibly good. Poor Pilou Asbek.

 

[Mr Git]

Great to see the Freys again, and was pretty relieved to see Tobias Menzies is still in the show, always thought that was brilliant casting. Definitely looking forward to seeing the Blackfish again. Interesting how on the show Coldhands finally appeared and was instantly revealed as Benjen, although in the show it's too difficult to hide, it was pretty clear immediately. Do wonder whether they've just amalgamated the characters though, or whether they're the same in the books as well.

Was sad to see Ian Mcshane wasn't Randyll. Still actually have no idea who he is going to play in that case.

Are Dany's ships gonna come from both Asha/Theon's lot and get topped up with Euron's as well? I'm wondering if they're still gonna bring the horn into it, maybe enroute to Mereen.

 

[News Bot]

I was just looking through the still images of Brans vision on the Asoiaf subreddit and I saw a couple of images mixed in with the Jamie killing the Mad Kings ones where wildfire is being set off, but that never happened during Roberts Rebellion because Jamie stopped it, so I'm guessing it's a vision of the future?

There's a popular theory among the book readers that Cersei will burn down Kings Landing with all the Wildfire that is hidden under it, is it possible that this is what was being foreshadowed? If so then I can't fucking wait. Kings Landing is a dump, nothing of value will be lost.

My personal theory is that Bloodraven wants Bran to know about the Mad King's caches of wildfire still beneath King's Landing because he intends for Bran to lure the army of the dead there and set it off, destroying the city in the process but saving the kingdom.

Another aspect of that theory is that Cersei will set it off before the dead arrive, fucking up everything for everyone.

 

[NeoGiff]

At least if the end of this season turns out to be awful, we have a hypothetical subtitle for the combined Season 7 OT.

Game of Thrones Season 7 |OT| Madness has had its day

 

[Red Arremer]

Do wonder whether they've just amalgamated the characters though, or whether they're the same in the books as well.

Very likely. I remember seeing a photo of the manuscript of the chapter where Coldhands is introduced, and the editor wrote something like "That's Benjen isn't it?" and GRRM writes back with a firm "no".

Was sad to see Ian Mcshane wasn't Randyll. Still actually have no idea who he is going to play in that case.

S6 Casting info:

Spoiler

Apparently he is supposed to play an old septon, which sounds like Meribald

I'm wondering if they're still gonna bring the horn into it, maybe enroute to Mereen.

I doubt Euron will have Dragonbinder. I think they're just gonna make Euron another mustache-twirling villain because clearly the show watchers are too dumb to recognize someone who is evil otherwise.

 

[ryseing]

I don't think they've ever referred explicitly to Robb Stark's last will and testament.

I checked the show wiki and it appears you're right. Dunno how I misremembered that.

Ah, now I see. Cat discussed legitimizing Jon with Talisa.

On a related note, the wiki says the show did discuss kinslaying in the case of the Karstarks, so News Bot is correct.

 

[Speevy]

We're two episodes away from Bastardbowl, so it can't be that bad.

 

[Mr. RPG]

At least if the end of this season turns out to be awful, we have a hypothetical subtitle for the combined Season 7 OT.

Game of Thrones Season 7 |OT| Madness has had its day

I love this one. We should definitely use it.

 

[dabig2]

I was just looking through the still images of Brans vision on the Asoiaf subreddit and I saw a couple of images mixed in with the Jamie killing the Mad Kings ones where wildfire is being set off, but that never happened during Roberts Rebellion because Jamie stopped it, so I'm guessing it's a vision of the future?

There's a popular theory among the book readers that Cersei will burn down Kings Landing with all the Wildfire that is hidden under it, is it possible that this is what was being foreshadowed? If so then I can't fucking wait. Kings Landing is a dump, nothing of value will be lost.

I'm actually hoping that maybe we were seeing a glimpse of the Tragedy at Summerhall (where Brienne's maybe grandad and several other Targs died leading to Aerys becoming king and the birth of Rhaegar). There's been some theories that wildfire was involved in the plot to try to hatch dragoneggs. And of course the theories that maybe all of it was a nefarious plot by the grand maesters maybe with the help of faceless men.

 

[Red Arremer]

a glimpse of the Tragedy at Summerhall

Not sure if the show is going to draw stuff out of the Dunk & Egg stories. I remember GRRM saying that Summerhall will be part of a future D&E story, and I kinda doubt he shared the details for it with D&D.

 

[Speevy]

"Promise me Ned. Let's go murder them."

 

[Red Arremer]

Let's go murder them is this year's bad pussy, isn't it?

 

[Speevy]

Let's go murder them is this year's bad pussy, isn't it?

It's definitely the dumbest fucking thing a character has said this season.

 

[Sheroking]

You're not really criticizing it, just throwing adjectives at it. How is it misused in regards to the show? At its basest level, it means that the rules of the world bend around a character.

The "plot armor" criticism applies specifically to characters surviving because they needed to for the sake of the story. Your issues with the shows use of Kingslaying is less an example of plot armor for those specific characters, and more of a general inconsistency in the rules of the world. Not the same thing. You're sweeping a lot of legitimate criticisms under one banner.

The reason plot armor is a weak criticism is because it applies to some degree to any character who survives a dangerous situation. The quality of writing, the explanation of their survival, matters but it's broadness has led to it's overuse and it's losing all meaning - much like the "Mary Sue" criticism.

You know what's a bigger example of plot armor than any you've given? Tyrion surviving with only a flesh wound to his face at the Blackwater. Nobody cares because it's not that big of a problem.

 

[News Bot]

The "plot armor" criticism applies specifically to characters surviving because they needed to for the sake of the story. Your issues with the shows use of Kingslaying is less an example of plot armor for those specific characters, and more of a general inconsistency in the rules of the world. Not the same thing. You're sweeping a lot of legitimate criticisms under one banner.

The reason plot armor is a weak criticism is because it applies to some degree to any character who survives a dangerous situation. The quality of writing, the explanation of their survival, matters but it's broadness has led to it's overuse and it's losing all meaning - much like the "Mary Sue" criticism.

You know what's a bigger example of plot armor than any you've given? Tyrion surviving with only a flesh wound to his face at the Blackwater. Nobody cares because it's not that big of a problem.

It's not overused at all with this show. Tyrion being saved from death by his squire is not a problem at all. You haven't given any indications of it being overused, yet keep relying on that to somehow invalidate any criticism attributed to it. Both the books and the show intentionally toy with tropes like plot armor, which is how the heroes tend to die in logical situations. However, the show has become an inverse of its original form and instead just gives the plot armor to villains to achieve that, instead of heroes being their own undoing.

 

[Jarmel]

You know what's a bigger example of plot armor than any you've given? Tyrion surviving with only a flesh wound to his face at the Blackwater. Nobody cares because it's not that big of a problem.

Well Tyrion isn't supposed be that good looking in the first place. Nobody was surprised that Tyrion only got a slight scar in the battle.

 

[KiwiLannister]

If Arya becomes a faceless man and is truly no one then does that mean she can never die? We already saw Jaquen die only to just become himself again. Also if the Waif does kill Arya then won't that just mean that they can also be Arya using her face or something like that?

Jaquen didn't come back from the dead. There are probably many faceless men that share his face and potentially that of the Waif too. It is more likely that another faceless man simply took his face and continued teaching Arya.

Also it doesn't look like Arya is going to be a faceless man after that last episode.

 

[Speevy]

It's not overused at all with this show. Tyrion being saved from death by his squire is not a problem at all.

What about surviving two separate encounters with the mountain clans and the northmen?

 

[Red Arremer]

I still love Euron going "build me a 1000 ships", when the Ironborn only go raiding because their shit-stained rocks have no natural resources whatsoever.

 

[Jarmel]

Ramsay's Twenty Good Men is definitely a case of plot armor however besides him somehow outplaying Roose, there hasn't been any particular egregious cases of plot armor in regards to his character or any others so far this season.

Roose really should have seen that coming.

 

[rando14]

I still love Euron going "build me a 1000 ships", when the Ironborn only go raiding because their shit-stained rocks have no natural resources whatsoever.

lol

 

[NeoGiff]

Let's go murder them is this year's bad pussy, isn't it?

Yes. And I genuinely think it's worse than bad pussy. Bad pussy was a clunker, but as bad as it was, at least they tried to be clever with it. "Let's go murder them" is just fucking dumb.

 

[Sheroking]

It's not overused at all with this show. Tyrion being saved from death by his squire is not a problem at all.

Again, you miss my point.

The lack of consequences for Kingslaying isn't an example of plot armor. Surviving a clean shot from a trained soldier with only a minor wound on your face, for the sole logical reason of needing the character to continue on, IS an example of plot armor. I'm not even actually criticizing the Blackwater scene - plot armor is not usually a big narrative issue. It's just become this overly broad, widely misused buzzword for internet critics.

 

[News Bot]

What about surviving two separate encounters with the mountain clans and the northmen?

He had Bronn and several knights (are you as annoyed that Catelyn didn't die?), and then the mountain clans, where he was then knocked out at the start of the battle because his small size led to him getting hit on the head.

These examples of yours are logical, reasonable situations. Not plot armor. They are not comparable to the examples I've given.

Again, you miss my point.

The lack of consequences for Kingslaying isn't an example of plot armor. Surviving a clean shot from a trained soldier with only a minor wound on your face, for the sole logical reason of needing the character to continue on, IS an example of plot armor. I'm not even actually criticizing the Blackwater scene - plot armor is not usually a big narrative issue. It's just become this overly broad, widely misused buzzword for internet critics.

Is your definition of clean shot "a swing that Tyrion backed away from"? In the books he is more greviously wounded, but it's harder to depict that in the show. That's not plot armor. It's not an overly broad or widely misused criticism with this show.

 

[Red Arremer]

Yes. And I genuinely think it's worse than bad pussy. Bad pussy was a clunker, but as bad as it was, at least they tried to be clever with it. "Let's go murder them" is just fucking dumb.

Oh yeah I definitely agree. It basically summarizes Euron as a character on the show. That and the lumbering up the hill like a rejected B-movie monster.

I don't even want to blame the actor for this shit (I mean, he was miscast, but that's not his fault), but man everything about Euron just makes me want to retch.

 

[Speevy]

He had Bronn and several knights (are you as annoyed that Catelyn didn't die?), and then the mountain clans, where he was then knocked out at the start of the battle because his small size led to him getting hit on the head.

These examples of yours are logical, reasonable situations. Not plot armor. They are not comparable to the examples I've given.



Is your definition of clean shot "a swing that Tyrion backed away from"? In the books he is more greviously wounded, but it's harder to depict that in the show. That's not plot armor. It's not an overly broad or widely misused criticism with this show.

And having a great fighter who would stand up for him who just happened to be better than the best knight of the Vale? Totally logical?

 

[Dash_Riprock]

I still love Euron going "build me a 1000 ships", when the Ironborn only go raiding because their shit-stained rocks have no natural resources whatsoever.

NOTHING about Iron Born culture makes sense in either the show or the books. A culture that stupid, backwards, and hostile would've wiped itself out in less than a century.

For historical reference, the Norse whom they were obviously based on were nowhere near as stupid or bloodthirsty as the Iron Born (they traded with the Europeans far more than they raided them) and eventually accepted becoming Christianized and more like their enemies cause it meant getting more stuff. None of this "Iron Price" bullshit.

 

[News Bot]

And having a great fighter who would stand up for him who just happened to be better than the best knight of the Vale? Totally logical?

Bronn purposefully didn't fight with honor to win. It wasn't a matter of being "better." Bronn would have died if he fought Ser Vardis like a knight, because that's not how Bronn fights, he'd be out of his element. The Vale is an honor-bound region and in that case it was their undoing.

So yes, totally logical. Also very thematically relevent as a foreshadowing on Ned, whose sense of honor came from... the Vale.

 

[Red Arremer]

And having a great fighter who would stand up for him who just happened to be better than the best knight of the Vale? Totally logical?

Bronn has been in it for the gold all along. He was the one who offered Tyrion his room when he came to the inn. He tagged along knowing that - regardless of the outcome - Starks/Tullys and Lannisters both are pretty wealthy and powerful, so he could get some nice coinage out of it.
And since Bronn also is an older and thus experienced sellsword with plenty of dirty tricks up his sleeve, it stands to reason he'd be a lot better at fighting than some clunky knight fighting honourably. He knew where the cash is.

Was GRRM writing in Bronn at the inn plot armour? I'd say no. It fell into place due to people being in certain places at certain times.

Was Yara shitting her pants while shirtless Ramsay slowly opened up the kennel with his dogs in it plot armour? I'd say yes. She had like a minute to just chop the fucker down while he fiddled with his key.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

NOTHING about Iron Born culture makes sense in either the show or the books. A culture that stupid, backwards, and hostile would've wiped itself out in less than a century.

yeah, the Iron Born are an embarrassingly bad alt-Vikings.

 

[News Bot]

Was Yara shitting her pants while shirtless Ramsay slowly opened up the kennel with his dogs in it plot armour? I'd say yes. She had like a minute to just chop the fucker down while he fiddled with his key.

He hypnotizes her with that fucking key, I swear. Also in the books she's a mean hatchet-thrower and should've been able to sink at least two into Ramsay's face by the time he so much as puts the key in the lock.

 

[GrapeApes]

Let's go murder them is this year's bad pussy, isn't it?

I find Euron going on about his big cock to be worse.

 

[dabig2]

Not sure if the show is going to draw stuff out of the Dunk & Egg stories. I remember GRRM saying that Summerhall will be part of a future D&E story, and I kinda doubt he shared the details for it with D&D.

Well, lacking details doesn't mean that the show can't do their own thing with Summerhall. There's actually a fair amount of plot threads connecting back to Summerhall that the even the show can use. Like if the show wants to get into Rhaegar and the PtWP prophecy to set up the endgame after they reveal the R+L=J ToJ bomb, then Summerhall would be a good story thread for that.

It shows us Rhaegar's birth, could get some exposition about the promised prince coming from Aerys' line, wildfire being used with blood magic, the last hope of dragons in Westeros right as Dany's dragons spring onto the scene. And if the grand maester assassination theories are right, this will also fit right in with the plot moving to Oldtown where we are due for some non-Bran historical exposition and the importance of dragons. And if faceless men were involved, we just spent 2+ seasons getting acquainted with them and their way of doing things.

 

[Red Arremer]

NOTHING about Iron Born culture makes sense in either the show or the books. A culture that stupid, backwards, and hostile would've wiped itself out in less than a century.

For historical reference, the Norse whom they were obviously based on were nowhere near as stupid or bloodthirsty as the Iron Born (they traded with the Europeans far more than they raided them) and eventually accepted becoming Christianized and more like their enemies cause it meant getting more stuff. None of this "Iron Price" bullshit.

yeah, the Iron Born are an embarrassingly bad alt-Vikings.

Oh yeah, for sure. I never thought the Ironborn were a well thought-out culture, but they are what they are, and there's still a lot of interesting stuff about them. I actually really like Asha as a character, as well.

It's also funny you mention the Vikings accepting Christianity, since the Ironborn houses that support Asha in the books are those that embraced the way of living of the mainlanders, some even the Faith of the Seven, basically representing the Vikings who have moved forward and transitioned to the more historical Vikings that want peace and trade rather than war and reaving.

Also I would add in defense that Balon Greyjoy did not represent the Ironborn mood either. He was a megalomaniac and full of himself and thought he could take on the mainlanders twice, despite the fact he got crushed the first time he rose up against the Iron Throne.

 

[Jack Scofield]

NOTHING about Iron Born culture makes sense in either the show or the books. A culture that stupid, backwards, and hostile would've wiped itself out in less than a century.

For historical reference, the Norse whom they were obviously based on were nowhere near as stupid or bloodthirsty as the Iron Born (they traded with the Europeans far more than they raided them) and eventually accepted becoming Christianized and more like their enemies cause it meant getting more stuff. None of this "Iron Price" bullshit.

Not to mention how they somehow crafted a civilization on an island of barren, lifeless rocks.

 

[Azzanadra]

yeah, the Iron Born are an embarrassingly bad alt-Vikings.

To be fair though, they are better explained in the books. I think most Ironborn longed for Asha's way of life (farming, agriculture etc.), but when Euron came in swaggering with the gold and horn, they lose their minds.... kind of like a "Make Iron Islands Great Again!".

 

[SodiumBenzoate]

To be fair though, they are better explained in the books. I think most Ironborn longed for Asha's way of life (farming, agriculture etc.), but when Euron came in swaggering with the gold and horn, they lose their minds.... kind of like a "Make Iron Islands Great Again!".

Yeah, I think the kingsmoot has been the least convincing part of the show adaptation in all 6 years. Worse than Dorne even.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

To be fair though, they are better explained in the books. I think most Ironborn longed for Asha's way of life (farming, agriculture etc.), but when Euron came in swaggering with the gold and horn, they lose their minds.... kind of like a "Make Iron Islands Great Again!".

Well, he does kinda look like Medieval Trump...

Show has become a joke since last season.

I need the book

Ready to wait 5-10 years?

 

[Majmun]

Show has become a joke since last season.

I need the book