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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 6
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
- Start date
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Leaked photos? No.
Trailers and promo photos? Yes
We're supposed to discuss any such content in spoiler tags.
However, since Syrio Forel appearing in the show is bullshit speculation at this point, I'd say it's fair game.
The guy hasn't been cast. He's dead.
wesleyshark
Banned
These are officially released photos and the resulting speculation of what they contain. That is 100% fair game in this thread.
Right. Syrio discussion isn't based on any leaks or rumors or anything other than people trying to figure out why Arya was acting so out of character. Syrio is one of several Detective Gaf/Reddit theories based entirely on speculative deduction.
While I love entertaining the idea that he's been working behind the scenes (or in plain sight) this whole time, the chances of that actually being the case are very very slim and there's no actual evidence to support it, in any official or leaked capacity.
wesleyshark
Banned
Maisie's 2 truths and 1 lie:
"Ayra goes back to Westeros, back over the sea."
"Arya is in the trailer more times than people have realized, because they don't realize it's her."
"Arya doesn't cross any names off her list."
Sophie Turner's 2 truths and 1 lie:
"Ramsay dies."
"Lady Stoneheart returns."
"Arya checks three people off her list."
"Ayra goes back to Westeros, back over the sea."
"Arya is in the trailer more times than people have realized, because they don't realize it's her."
"Arya doesn't cross any names off her list."
Sophie Turner's 2 truths and 1 lie:
"Ramsay dies."
"Lady Stoneheart returns."
"Arya checks three people off her list."
Veritigo_X
Member
Being a faceless man, Syrio took Trant's face and impersonated him from then on. In a surprise twist, Syrio turns out to be a pedophile asshole and Arya kills him. Fuck you Syrio, you deserved it.
Oh, it was never my dream. I'd like it better if he stays dead.
bitbydeath
Member
You don't like what went on in the books?
LSH seems more likely than not at this point what with the BwB and Frey's coming back and all the reminders of what happened in S3.
The books and the show handle resurrection differently. There are consequences in books but not in the show so it's hard to compare the two directly.
Speaking of which, the thought that Jon has mellowed now that he's been killed doesn't fly this week after he wanted to go to battle with Ramsay even though they are undermanned and haven't even spoken to the Manderlys yet.
H.Cornerstone
Member
Yeah... one has to wonder even with the knights of the vale how Jon has any chance at winning. (besides having a Giant).
I actually haven't read the books heh, I think LSH is a very interesting character but I feel its too late to introduce her, in the show it would feel like some weird fan service to the book fans, and there's just too many resurrections in just one season.
There are a lot of reminders of previous seasons mostly because of Bran and his bingviewing of the show, LSH seems obvious only if you know the books, but for show-only watchers it would be too crazy I think.
Uh, I don't think you're in a place to talk about LSH's placement in the show as simply being "fan service" if you haven't read the books.
Stoneheart and the BWB in the books are about what happens when the crown fails in its duty to do justice and protect the populace, where people start turning and what people become. The BWB start as kingsmen, an instrument of justice for the crown, and when the crown fails in its duties the BWB turn to the leadership of the vengeance grim reaper.
It's softening the ground for Jaime to learn the true extent of the sins of him and his father and emerge as Goldenhand the Just, but in the show Jaime's arc has gone walkabouts. And the BWB slaughtering random villages doesn't really work with the theme either, at least not without explaining how they morally degenerated to that point. If they're going to kickstart Jaime's arc back up again and have him get involved in the BWB, then I hope they do her, otherwise there's not much point and it is just fan service.
It's softening the ground for Jaime to learn the true extent of the sins of him and his father and emerge as Goldenhand the Just, but in the show Jaime's arc has gone walkabouts. And the BWB slaughtering random villages doesn't really work with the theme either, at least not without explaining how they morally degenerated to that point. If they're going to kickstart Jaime's arc back up again and have him get involved in the BWB, then I hope they do her, otherwise there's not much point and it is just fan service.
It just seems too late to kickstart Jamie's arc and introduce Lady Stoneheart. Those events took a long, long, long time to unfold in the books and it wouldn't make much sense without the proper buildup.
Of course, the show hand waved how the faith became so powerful so who knows? But I fear we'll never get the Jamie we want and the BwB will be explained away by saying Beric died and they went savage. The show doesn't have the time or inclination to ruminate on the horrors of war. It's easier to construct a villain to root against (the BwB are slaughtering innocent church builders!) than delve into the psychology of broken men and the dangers of vengeance.
Of course, the show hand waved how the faith became so powerful so who knows? But I fear we'll never get the Jamie we want and the BwB will be explained away by saying Beric died and they went savage. The show doesn't have the time or inclination to ruminate on the horrors of war. It's easier to construct a villain to root against (the BwB are slaughtering innocent church builders!) than delve into the psychology of broken men and the dangers of vengeance.
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
I'm starting to think Sophie gave three lies to mess with the interviewer/troll the fanbase. There's no way she would reveal any of those via that game if they were true.
And Maisie's #2 seems to be the obvious lie at this point.
I read the books; it would be fan service and serve no point. I was glad in the books when it happened just because we were getting some retribution on the Freys and on one else was in a position to do so and we hadn't had a resurrection of another main character. In the show, with Sansa and Jon likely to beat the Boltons and Arya coming back, they should be the ones to kill Freys. It's enough resurrection. I don't even see the point of Jon dying and coming back. Ramsay having a sibling of his is good enough reason to abandon his Night's Watch vows.
I would much much much rather have Manderly serve some Frey pies than LSH.
wesleyshark
Banned
If Sophie's #2 is her lie, then Maisie's #3 would have to be her lie.
If Sophie's #3 is her lie, then either Maisie's #1 or #2 could be equally as likely to be a lie.
Hmmm.
Well if spoilers are to be believed and they've been pretty
correct so far, Ramsay will not die this season
Seriously, why do people have trouble with this? Jon didn't abandon his vows when Ned was imprisoned or when Robb went to war, or when he was killed. Jon cared about those vows. Him getting killed/resurrected was his chance to fulfil those vows honourably and then trot off to do his own thing. Not a seriously difficult concept to grasp.
Elysium-777
Member
He better not. We need a season 7 cold open of him being sacrificed to the Lord of Light.
It's easy to confuse Book Jon with Show Jon. The former isn't as bound by oaths or as stubborn about doing what the Night's Watch want.
To see how wrong you are, think about why Ramsay having Arya was what made him break his vow in the books. Unlike those situations, in the situation, he's the only one that can save his family member. He would be a piece of shit if he didn't go rescue Arya or Rickon after receiving Ramsay's letter. Him dying and coming back to life was absolutely pointless.
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
Forget that I want Euron to become the new sick fuck: Joffrey -> Ramsey -> Euron.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
What if he only went because in the book he thinks he's going to save Arya? Arya seemed to be the only family member other than Robb who was kind to him.
There's nothing that indicates Jon didn't care about the rest of his family.
Jon was going to save Arya, not leave the NW. Leaving wouldn't have been that simple and on the balance of things he obviously didn't want to leave as not even WF could tempt him out of his command at the NW.
Death and resurrection solves everything and keeps the character consistent where no other solution would. But if you have to kill a character and randomly bring him back to life to get him where you want him you basically wrote yourself in a hole and are pulling yourself out of it cheaply. GRRM doesn't do that, there'll be more to his resurrection in the books, and there's probably further explanation in the show to come as well.
Death and resurrection solves everything and keeps the character consistent where no other solution would. But if you have to kill a character and randomly bring him back to life to get him where you want him you basically wrote yourself in a hole and are pulling yourself out of it cheaply. GRRM doesn't do that, there'll be more to his resurrection in the books, and there's probably further explanation in the show to come as well.
H.Cornerstone
Member
That was Martin forcing the issue to kill Jon to fulfill his vows. I never thought it was done well in the books. I think the show/Martin realize without a united north there would be no story as the white walkers would just trounce over everyone. With a united north they at least stand a chance.
Because no one in the North is going to follow an oath breaker and members of the night watch can't get involved in politics.
Why would he have to break his oath? He doesn't have to lead the battle to take back Winterfell. And why are they alright following a guy who let wildings cross the wall, was assassinated by his own men, and was brought back from the dead by a Priestess who worships a foreign god?
H.Cornerstone
Member
How else does he lead an army against the Bolton's without it being political, thus violating his oath?
You bring this up everyone week. Its getting old.
Show or book? In book because he's Robb's heir and because most of them despise the alternative.
That the Red God or Meli will be considered the reason for him having been revived is an assumption, but even so, having come back from the dead is more likely to serve as a reason to follow him than not.
That the Red God or Meli will be considered the reason for him having been revived is an assumption, but even so, having come back from the dead is more likely to serve as a reason to follow him than not.
The oath doesn't mention getting involved with politics:
"Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come."
And Jon doesn't have to be directly involved in the battle.
I bring it up because I'm frustrated that they hand waved what appears to be the most important storyline. And every week it becomes more clear that they ignore logic to tell the story they want.
Plus, for once I didn't bring it up. I'm not alone anymore!
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
The North Remembers.
I think that alone requires Jon's death. It gets him out of his vows. Would the North accept a Bastard Stark, let alone a Bastard Stark who violated his vows to the Watch? Not to mention, with Jon's (pretty much confirmed) heritage, he needs to have a mystical quality like Dany does. Dany walked through fire. Jon returned from the dead.
I think that alone requires Jon's death. It gets him out of his vows. Would the North accept a Bastard Stark, let alone a Bastard Stark who violated his vows to the Watch? Not to mention, with Jon's (pretty much confirmed) heritage, he needs to have a mystical quality like Dany does. Dany walked through fire. Jon returned from the dead.
That the NW are not to involve themselves in the affairs of the realm is well implied and understood in the books and as far as I'm aware in the show. And you can't get around it by some proxy "I wasn't technically there leading it" nonsense. It seems your problem is with them not having made it explicit enough for your understanding, but no-one else seems to have this issue.
Episode 7 preview and trailers
she might be referencing the scenes with who we assume is her in the blue running around Braavos, and the bloody hand on the wall in one of the trailers for the season
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Sansa will probably legitamize him or something. Or he'll become king briefly and then leave it to Sansa once he finds out his heritage.
My problem is they didn't justify why Jon had to die but, yeah, I'm certainly in the minority. I just feel like playing the resurrection card should be a last resort in storytelling because it undermines the significance of death. I'm alright if it's used but I need a better reason than "he had to.get out of his oath."
I really hope Martin does a better job justifying this plot point. Sorry for bringing this up every week.
bitbydeath
Member
I haven't done a full autopsy but I'd imagine all those knives to the chest is the reason he died.
lol Benjen and Sandor never died.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Sansa isn't going to legitimize him. She's pretty much just using him to get Winterfell back.
Hi I haven't read the books and I have a question, it's obvious how important faith and religion is in the GoT world, and I was wondering are the Dornish religious? Because they seem to have their own little civilised bubble in the show and I was wondering if they worship the same gods Westrosis worship? Or do they have their own gods and mythos? Also what about the Free Folk? Are they "free" from the constraints of faith? Thanks a lot.
Generally Dorne follows the seven or are thought to but there's no particularly strong religious characters from there as far as I can remember. Some of the Dornish population descend from refugees from Essos and believe in different river gods but that's not likely to be picked up in the show. The freefolk keep the northern gods (weirwoods basically) same as the Starks and most of the north.
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