These are flimsy criticisms.
I'm curious if Arya even thinks she's in training anymore. Maybe she thinks she's kicked to the curb and the Waif is just picking personal shit with her.
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These are flimsy criticisms.
I'm curious if Arya even thinks she's in training anymore. Maybe she thinks she's kicked to the curb and the Waif is just picking personal shit with her.
FootballFan
Member
dorne the location? or dorne the snakes?
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
lol x 3
You ever seen a Starz show, bro? They're producing some great stuff now.
And the winner of the Best Dog Emmy goes to...
FootballFan
Member
Well, Arya trains IN the Temple of Black and White in the books for a reason. The only reason to show her on the streets here, begging, was for a shock factor for the audience to make them worried that she was ending up a homeless/blind/beggar girl for 30 seconds.
The shield didn't take up his entire back. The staging and camera angle make it difficult to discern, but it appears that he stabs "beneath" or "around" the shield, not through it.
elrechazado
Banned
Lol
Lol, first thing I thought of, but on a second look, he stabbed him near the nick/shoulder, way higher than what the shield was covering.
I just rewatched the scene.
It doesn't cover his entire back. Theon stabs above the shield through the man's upper back/neck.
He doesn't stab "through" the shield. It's "above" it like I described in my previous post.
cartoon_soldier
Member
I don't know why people are upset that much about Dorne. If they wanted to go the book way they would have done so in S5. This means overall Dorne is inconsequential to the book plot and it was just further things GRRM added to make the series more convoluted just so someone can free the dragons.
I see, curse inability to replay.
Then it shouldn't be in the show at all. But no, they had to capitalize on Oberyn's popularity.
Then it shouldn't be in the show at all. But no, they had to capitalize on Oberyn's popularity.
They butchered Dorne.
Terrible writing in the Dothraki scenes.
Good Wall moments.
Good Sansa scenes.
The Varys/Tyrion scene fell shoedin.
"Oh look Arya"
The final reveal felt kind of flat, unless they actually do something with it next episode.
Overall good improvements in the production side.
Terrible writing in the Dothraki scenes.
Good Wall moments.
Good Sansa scenes.
The Varys/Tyrion scene fell shoedin.
"Oh look Arya"
The final reveal felt kind of flat, unless they actually do something with it next episode.
Overall good improvements in the production side.
Heh, they weren't even one tiny bit conflicted about killing him. @_@
I'm still waiting for Jaime to become like the book version... HAHA j/k.
I really, really hoped that at least D&D would do the Martells the courtesy to have Doran mention Quentyn and his (book) plans in his dying words so that the rest could realize that they made a mistake, but nope. Fuck that.
Also, what was with the ending. Surprise! Melisandre is really an old woman?
Also, what was with the ending. Surprise! Melisandre is really an old woman?
dead souls
Member
So true. This show wishes it was Black Sails/Outlander quality.
I can't believe how they wasted Alexander Siddig. He was even utilized better on a fucking shitshow like Atlantis. He should have just spent the time he was on this at Quark's fighting the Alamo with Chief O'Brien.
If Dorne just disappeared after this episode it's be okay. If Dorne had not shown up at all, it would have been for the best.
Girlfriend and I were just sort of wondering why the nipple shot at the end. Thanks HBO, then the reveal so it's like eh... okay but why naked? Seemed sort of meaningless to be nude.
Girlfriend and I were just sort of wondering why the nipple shot at the end. Thanks HBO, then the reveal so it's like eh... okay but why naked? Seemed sort of meaningless to be nude.
To have that sweet Fan Disservice entry on TV Tropes.
Between The Witch and this GoT episode I've seen my fair share of naked old women these last two days.
FootballFan
Member
Starz produced Spartacus
It's a fantastic show, GOT wishes it could have some of the characterization or fight choreography from Spartacus.
It's a fantastic show, GOT wishes it could have some of the characterization or fight choreography from Spartacus.
It's a metaphor. She's vulnerable.
Also, violence and nudity are staples to the series.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Because they had to introduce the sand snakes which we know from GRRM are important to the plot.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
That was a pretty bad episode - it was far too short and boring for a such a hyped season premiere.
+ The stuff at The Wall was decent. I like Ser Davos and the twist with Melisandre was sort of neat.
+ Kelly C bein' a bad ass. Though, where is dragon?
+ Arya's scene didn't amount to much but it was still sort of cool. Felt bad for the poor girl getting whacked around like that.
+ Ships burning in Meereen means maybe Tyrion will have something exciting to deal with this season?
- It's extremely obnoxious that they not only strung out this "But what about Jon?!" nonsense for an entire year but that they then decided to wait until at least episode 2 to resolve it.
- Deus Ex Briennena saving Sansa and Theon just in the nick of time was dumb, especially after the whole thing in the season 5 finale where she just missed seeing Sansa's candle because she chose to go after Stannis instead. There should have been some sort of consequence that resulted from her decision to abandon Sansa (and in turn, her oath to Catelyn in favor of her oath to Renly). So much for that.
- How did Pod manage to kill one of the Legendary 20 Good Men??
- The Dothraki banter was pretty cringey. "White pussy hair"? I don't remember them being this goofy in the first season.
- The Dornish Coup. What rot. In case you ever doubted it, here is definitive proof that the writers don't plan any of this in advance. Prince Doran, Aero Hotah, and Trystane, like the majority of the Dorne scenes, served no purpose on the show. It was all just meaningless filler. Seeing as how they're doing the Iron Born storyline this year, the time would have been better spent last season fleshing out the Iron Islands instead of Dorne, and then I guess they still could have thrown in a rushed Ellaria/Sand Snakes revenge thing at the last minute if they really needed to. But the way this whole thing has played out has simply been awful.
+ The stuff at The Wall was decent. I like Ser Davos and the twist with Melisandre was sort of neat.
+ Kelly C bein' a bad ass. Though, where is dragon?
+ Arya's scene didn't amount to much but it was still sort of cool. Felt bad for the poor girl getting whacked around like that.
+ Ships burning in Meereen means maybe Tyrion will have something exciting to deal with this season?
- It's extremely obnoxious that they not only strung out this "But what about Jon?!" nonsense for an entire year but that they then decided to wait until at least episode 2 to resolve it.
- Deus Ex Briennena saving Sansa and Theon just in the nick of time was dumb, especially after the whole thing in the season 5 finale where she just missed seeing Sansa's candle because she chose to go after Stannis instead. There should have been some sort of consequence that resulted from her decision to abandon Sansa (and in turn, her oath to Catelyn in favor of her oath to Renly). So much for that.
- How did Pod manage to kill one of the Legendary 20 Good Men??
- The Dothraki banter was pretty cringey. "White pussy hair"? I don't remember them being this goofy in the first season.
- The Dornish Coup. What rot. In case you ever doubted it, here is definitive proof that the writers don't plan any of this in advance. Prince Doran, Aero Hotah, and Trystane, like the majority of the Dorne scenes, served no purpose on the show. It was all just meaningless filler. Seeing as how they're doing the Iron Born storyline this year, the time would have been better spent last season fleshing out the Iron Islands instead of Dorne, and then I guess they still could have thrown in a rushed Ellaria/Sand Snakes revenge thing at the last minute if they really needed to. But the way this whole thing has played out has simply been awful.
FootballFan
Member
great post and I share 90% of your complaints
I liked everything except the Dorne stuff, I understand killing Doran, Ellaria despises him for not avenging Oberyn etc., but why not poison him so she can at least pretend it wasn't her? But whatever, what really pissed me off was the Sand Snakes killing Trystane, he's their cousin and hasn't done anything they'd hate him for this much.
If the show wanted him out of the way, why not have him be killed by the Lannisters?
What is their plan anyway? Is the oldest sand snake supposed to become the kinslaying bastard princess of Dorne, why would anyone recognize or follow her? Even with Doran and Trystane both dead there have to be some distant cousins who have a legitimate claim.
There was a lot of exposition in all other scenes but I expected that, they have to reintroduce everyone and everything.
If the show wanted him out of the way, why not have him be killed by the Lannisters?
What is their plan anyway? Is the oldest sand snake supposed to become the kinslaying bastard princess of Dorne, why would anyone recognize or follow her? Even with Doran and Trystane both dead there have to be some distant cousins who have a legitimate claim.
There was a lot of exposition in all other scenes but I expected that, they have to reintroduce everyone and everything.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
Uh, no, it doesn't mean that at all.
It doesn't make any sense. Why didn't Jaime throw Trystane in the King's Landing dungeons since he was on the same ship? He would be a perfect hostage for negotiation. Where wheren't there any Lannister guards protecting him?
And where the fuck was Bronn?
Did Jaime just forgot to mention to Cersei that Trystane was also in King's Landing?
matrix-cat
Member
I'm surprised you guys even noticed the shield on the dude's back. This episode's fight scenes were filmed so incoherently I was imagining the crew just kind of throwing running cameras near the actors and editing together whatever happened to be mostly in-frame.
The Sandsnakes somehow getting from Dorne to a ship anchored in King's Landing without anyone noticing is still blowing my mind. There's no other ship or boat in the establishing shot before Trystane gets killed, and they were clearly shown in Dorne last episode so they didn't stow away. They just straight up teleported there.
The Sandsnakes somehow getting from Dorne to a ship anchored in King's Landing without anyone noticing is still blowing my mind. There's no other ship or boat in the establishing shot before Trystane gets killed, and they were clearly shown in Dorne last episode so they didn't stow away. They just straight up teleported there.
Well, after Ellaria kills Doran, she launches into a speech about how he lived his whole life within the palace walls and didn't know the real wishes of the people while all of the guards looked on, implying that the nation wants to go to war with the King's Landing for Elia & Oberyn's deaths. The Dornish apparently are just waiting for a leader to take up that charge.
FootballFan
Member
cringe line
Benioff : "What would Tyrion say?"
Weiss: "Something witty no doubt, how about something in regards to Vary's manhood"
B: "Great idea, his manhood...his manhood... His Cock!"
W:"That is it, he would use the term cock"
B:"He is a eunuch, so it should be something that calls back to it, the show viewers have short memories."
W:"Yea you are right"
B:"Just write "Good thing you are not a boy anymore.."
B&W:"Because you have no cock"
B&W:"Nailed it"
B:"Now onto Dorne..."
Poimandres
Member
Spartacus was fine, but don't act like it was all roses and sunshine. It had plenty of cheese, fan service, poor writing and groan moments. Black Sails though... might be my favourite show currently in production (but, not without issues of its own!)
The ending of this ep actually got me pretty good. I thought it was well done, and even though I've been swimming in spoilers it was a surprise.
FootballFan
Member
I completely agree it definitely had issues but it was very enjoyable.
What is Black Sails about?
Cpt.Underpants
Member
I can't think of any scenario on how the Ellaria's plan will work, unless they've fully convinced the entire Dornish houses to fight for them.
You've got Yronwoods, the second most powerful house who has an unsteady relationship with the Martells, if they exist in the show that is
AFAIK the Dornish seem to excel in skirmishes and haven't read about them winning a war on open ground. Although you could just unleash the bad poosy brigade and just let them rekk shit
You've got Yronwoods, the second most powerful house who has an unsteady relationship with the Martells, if they exist in the show that is
AFAIK the Dornish seem to excel in skirmishes and haven't read about them winning a war on open ground. Although you could just unleash the bad poosy brigade and just let them rekk shit
Not feeling the hate everyone else is.
Apart from Dorne, everything was as expected, apart from anticipating Jon's resurrection ASAP. Episode 1 is always a quick whip round to see where everyone is and set the stage for the rest of the season.
The Wall is still the most interesting for me. I found the last scene quite sad, and harrowing. I think it's also quite clear that Jon is coming back as Jon, and not as a zombie, or through Ghost; there is no point in Davos remaining so stoutly purely to protect a corpse, who he admits he didn't know very well, just for the sake of honor. Now I know Ser Davos is a good man, but he's not stupid. If Jon was dead dead, then he'd shake his head and let it be. He and the brothers mourning for Jon are in that room for a reason, and it's not just to kill and be killed by Thorne. Olly needs to fuck off too, the smug cunt.
The Sansa stuff was fine....apart from the fact that hypothermia is going to kick in real soon. Brienne and Pod showing up was fine IMO; she's not long taken Stannis' head, near Winterfell. It's not a stretch to imagine the commotion and barking of the dogs would be heard, or maybe she's even spied Sansa and Theon jumping from the walls. The important bit is, Sansa anointing Brienne is her first step in gaining some authority of her own. I'd still expect the question to be asked regarding Pod though, still dressed in Lannister colors. Reds probably a dangerous color to be wearing in the North.
The Dothraki scene was meh. Dany is safe, and they re-introduce the role of a Khalessi, and their obligation to Vaes Dothrak. Served its purpose and well, the "banter" between the riders wasn't too outthere considering how the Dothraki have always been portrayed (and are, in fact). A little crude for the sake of it, but two savage riders find a beautiful women, and it's not a stretch to imagine the talk between them. Might have been sloppy, but certainly not cringe worthy.
Everything else; KL, Tyrion and Varys, Arya etc sets the scene and lays the foundation for their plot this season.
Over it was a fine episode, as in Okay. Bit of a cock tease for the sake of it regarding Jon, but I'd imagine they'd have to spend too much time in one location and neglect the rest, which isn't what E1 normally does. Once the ball starts rolling, I can still see this season kicking ass, based purely off of what the trailers suggest. What the episode was missing though, was that one scene needed to kick it off properly. Was it S4E1, where we got the GOAT scene between Arya and the Hound? That episode in itself, if memory serves me right, was slow and used to reintroduce the character and their current situation, but that scene stole the show.
"...lots of people name their swords."
"Lots of cunts".
Apart from Dorne, everything was as expected, apart from anticipating Jon's resurrection ASAP. Episode 1 is always a quick whip round to see where everyone is and set the stage for the rest of the season.
The Wall is still the most interesting for me. I found the last scene quite sad, and harrowing. I think it's also quite clear that Jon is coming back as Jon, and not as a zombie, or through Ghost; there is no point in Davos remaining so stoutly purely to protect a corpse, who he admits he didn't know very well, just for the sake of honor. Now I know Ser Davos is a good man, but he's not stupid. If Jon was dead dead, then he'd shake his head and let it be. He and the brothers mourning for Jon are in that room for a reason, and it's not just to kill and be killed by Thorne. Olly needs to fuck off too, the smug cunt.
The Sansa stuff was fine....apart from the fact that hypothermia is going to kick in real soon. Brienne and Pod showing up was fine IMO; she's not long taken Stannis' head, near Winterfell. It's not a stretch to imagine the commotion and barking of the dogs would be heard, or maybe she's even spied Sansa and Theon jumping from the walls. The important bit is, Sansa anointing Brienne is her first step in gaining some authority of her own. I'd still expect the question to be asked regarding Pod though, still dressed in Lannister colors. Reds probably a dangerous color to be wearing in the North.
The Dothraki scene was meh. Dany is safe, and they re-introduce the role of a Khalessi, and their obligation to Vaes Dothrak. Served its purpose and well, the "banter" between the riders wasn't too outthere considering how the Dothraki have always been portrayed (and are, in fact). A little crude for the sake of it, but two savage riders find a beautiful women, and it's not a stretch to imagine the talk between them. Might have been sloppy, but certainly not cringe worthy.
Everything else; KL, Tyrion and Varys, Arya etc sets the scene and lays the foundation for their plot this season.
Over it was a fine episode, as in Okay. Bit of a cock tease for the sake of it regarding Jon, but I'd imagine they'd have to spend too much time in one location and neglect the rest, which isn't what E1 normally does. Once the ball starts rolling, I can still see this season kicking ass, based purely off of what the trailers suggest. What the episode was missing though, was that one scene needed to kick it off properly. Was it S4E1, where we got the GOAT scene between Arya and the Hound? That episode in itself, if memory serves me right, was slow and used to reintroduce the character and their current situation, but that scene stole the show.
"...lots of people name their swords."
"Lots of cunts".
You can't think the show will care about anything like that
I cringed so hard. Ridiculous line and very un-Tyrion.
This episode had a lot of moments where character progression just died in a fire.
mean, I guess Cersei and Jamie are "good" now? I mean, weren't they pretty much drifting apart? Did the walk of shame rehabilitate Cersei to the point where she suddenly wouldn't blame Jaimie and damn him to all hell for letting the kid get murdered? Definitely not my Cersei. Certainly not my Jaimie.
And another, Arya, whose blindness was handled in the books to be this moment where she -step by step- became proficient in living without sight. Where in the show she's apparently woke up blind, immediately got thrown out to the street to turn beggar, what happened to survivor Arya? The one character that is never helpless when left to her own devices in a shitty situation, so weird a character shift into incapable Arya that gets beaten up with a stick for some reason. We already had her character go through several training arcs so making her regress back to season one instead of picking up at "oh, she's already coping a bit, but has a lot left to learn" is just dumb.
Sansa, once again, completely regressed. Yes, she's seen some shit, but whimpering, forgetting the lines to the oath, bumbling her way through it? At the very least when Brienne was pledging her fealty she should have echoed her mother more and shown a more resolute Sansa.
We're in the sixth season and all these characters are acting like its season one.
Davos was a boss as always, so at least there's that. I'll give them that, Davos is a fucking boss and will forever be a legend (until they kill him for no good reason like they did Barry). All The Wall stuff remains on-point, mostly because it feels like one of the few stories that is actually progressing in the show right now. The final scene was cool, revealing the glamour on Melisandre was a cool touch, though at the very least the Jon resurrection should have closed this episode so that at least SOMETHING happened. I don't often complain about shows not happening, being of the mindset that a "10-episode long story needs to play out before you judge it," but not a single hook outside of that minor reveal at the end is a bit of a shame. It really seemed like a "how are they doing now"-clipshow episode.
Red Arremer
Member
Areo Hotah, who is considered one of the best fighters in the books, killed by this:
I'm actually genuinely upset about this, because it means that all of the Dorne stuff was mere filler in the show. The whole coup is just absolutely dumb. The show never intended to have ANY of Doran's plans for Westeros be relevant. It was just so they could kill off Myrcella and give the Lannisters a reason to go to war with Dorne or something idk.
The entire Dorne plot is like, a 180° of everything in the books. GRRM must be projectile vomiting.
I'm actually genuinely upset about this, because it means that all of the Dorne stuff was mere filler in the show. The whole coup is just absolutely dumb. The show never intended to have ANY of Doran's plans for Westeros be relevant. It was just so they could kill off Myrcella and give the Lannisters a reason to go to war with Dorne or something idk.
The entire Dorne plot is like, a 180° of everything in the books. GRRM must be projectile vomiting.
Poimandres
Member
It's a Starz drama about pirates, kind of a prequel to treasure island. First season was a bit slow, but seasons 2 and 3 were great. If you're a fan on Spartacus and (sometimes) Game of Thrones, you should get on board!
Doran wasn't even allowed to have his one badass moment (Fire and Blood speech). Waste of casting.
I'm sure D&D will find a way to have one of the sand snacks give the speech now.
mariachi507
Member
What an odd and underwhelming episode. It was shot beautifully and I liked the scenes at Castle Black and with Cersei, but the rest was either dull or bad. Did the writer's pull most of the first four seasons dialogue straight from the books or something? It's really gone downhill since then. A couple of scenes were executed quite lazily as well, such as the murder of Trystane and latter scene with Sansa. It's like they're assuming their viewers are dumb. If you compared tonights Dothraki scene's with those of season 1, tonight's come across as a straight up parody. Just more of that emmy winning dialogue I guess.
I feel that there are just way too many characters at this point. Their scenes are suffering due to the need to include them all and the time constraint in doing so. Season 4 also had to deal with juggling a lot of characters, but the writing made up for it. There were too many scenes where the plot just didn't move at all, that's not necessarily bad if you have the writing to make up for it. Tonight's episode just didn't have it. Hopefully next week is better.
I feel that there are just way too many characters at this point. Their scenes are suffering due to the need to include them all and the time constraint in doing so. Season 4 also had to deal with juggling a lot of characters, but the writing made up for it. There were too many scenes where the plot just didn't move at all, that's not necessarily bad if you have the writing to make up for it. Tonight's episode just didn't have it. Hopefully next week is better.
Cpt.Underpants
Member
Shhhhh. Dont give Obara any ideas
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