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[Deleted member 17706]

I feel like they spent half their budget for the season on this episode. It was a damn great episode, though.

 

[Vault Dweller 111]

So... what was so holy shit omg so good about this episode for you guys? Missing the hype here somehow...

 

[demosthenes]

Horses are man's best friend next to dogs? Jeez, they just run in to the battle, not really knowing what's going to happen. It's amazing they don't all just get scared shtiless and try to run away.

 

[Iksenpets]

What did Yara and Theon get out of their deal with Dany? Presumably Dany will help them kill Euron. But in exchange, they'll give up their ships, their independence and way of life. They say Euron took the throne from Yara, but in reality she just lost what is the closest thing to a democratic election in Westeros. Who's she to make the call that the Ironborn should change their entire way of life to appease some dragon queen? Should've just sold some ships and bought a faceless man to kill Euron, apparently even actors can afford them!

/annoying nitpicks

Dany specifically recognized their independence. Dany and Yara are two queens in an alliance now, hence the handshake to seal the deal instead of any kneeling. If Dany wins and rules Westeros, they no longer have to worry about the Iron Throne coming to try and reclaim the Islands so long as they don't raid Westeros anymore. I'm honestly surprised Dany gave them a deal that good. Sure, it'll be a hard sell for Yara to make to her people, but it was a good deal for her.

 

[emag]

Those dragons took forever to destroy one ship.

So... what was so holy shit omg so good about this episode for you guys? Missing the hype here somehow...

I liked the build up at the war table with Sansa, Jon, Tormund, and Davos as well as Davos's discovery of Shireen's pyre. The actual battle didn't do anything for me. I guess I'm just inured to big fantasy action sequences with invincible characters. The tone didn't feel very fitting at all.

Still, it was better than Hardhome and it's generic zombie movie filler.

 

[Henkka]

Watching the final scene again, maybe I overstated my problems with it. It's not like she feeds Ramsay to the dogs, not really... She doesn't open the gate for them or anything, it's already open and she just stands there. So instead of intentionally feeding him to his dogs, she just does nothing to stop it, which isn't as unhinged. It was nice of the dogs to wait for her to give a speech, though.

Dany specifically recognized their independence. Dany and Yara are two queens in an alliance now, hence the handshake to seal the deal instead of any kneeling. If Dany wins and rules Westeros, they no longer have to worry about the Iron Throne coming to try and reclaim the Islands so long as they don't raid Westeros anymore. I'm honestly surprised Dany gave them a deal that good. Sure, it'll be a hard sell for Yara to make to her people, but it was a good deal for her.

It's a little unclear. Dany said they should they should support her as queen of the Seven kingdoms, and respect the integrity of the Seven kingdoms. I thought that included the Iron Islands?

 

[Blue Ninja]

Man, the Master that survived the meeting with Dany totally reminds me of Robert Downey, Jr.'s character in Tropic Thunder. :lol

 

[SpaceWolf]

I felt this scene would have been more impressive if all three of the dragons weren't inexplicably focused on the same ship.

It's like, come on lads...there are like fifty ships out there, spread out a bit.

 

[LifEndz]

What did Yara and Theon get out of their deal with Dany? Presumably Dany will help them kill Euron. But in exchange, they'll give up their ships, their independence and way of life. They say Euron took the throne from Yara, but in reality she just lost what is the closest thing to a democratic election in Westeros. Who's she to make the call that the Ironborn should change their entire way of life to appease some dragon queen? Should've just sold some ships and bought a faceless man to kill Euron, apparently even actors can afford them!

/annoying nitpicks

I thought they got their independence, contingent on them no longer engaging in pillaging and reaping. Perhaps in the end that's not much, but it looks like Yara will get to be Queen of the Iron Islands. Yeah, I guess the deal was kinda pointless for them.

 

[Blue Ninja]

I felt this scene would have been more impressive if all three of the dragons weren't inexplicably focused on the same ship.

It's like, come on lads...there are like fifty ships out there, spread out a bit.

Well, Dany wants the ships intact after all.

It's actually impressive that both Viserion and Rhaegal followed Drogon's lead and didn't just go rampant.

Speaking of Viserion and Rhaegal: Tyrion released them three episodes ago, what were they doing still breaking out of the pyramid?

 

[Vault Dweller 111]

I felt this scene would have been more impressive if all three of the dragons weren't inexplicably focused on the same ship.

It's like, come on lads...there are like fifty ships out there, spread out a bit.

That was Dany's new fleet, she didn't want to burn it. It was a pure intimidation move to make them surrender.

 

[demosthenes]

I felt this scene would have been more impressive if all three of the dragons weren't inexplicably focused on the same ship.

It's like, come on lads...there are like fifty ships out there, spread out a bit.

While I thought that at first, that would defeat Tyrion's plan which was you know....to get ships. They made a lesson of one ship.

edit: You sly fox.
edit2: And monkey, dammit.

 

[GreyWind]

Can't wait to see some fan art of that scene

 

[Lonestar]

Dany specifically recognized their independence. Dany and Yara are two queens in an alliance now, hence the handshake to seal the deal instead of any kneeling. If Dany wins and rules Westeros, they no longer have to worry about the Iron Throne coming to try and reclaim the Islands so long as they don't raid Westeros anymore. I'm honestly surprised Dany gave them a deal that good. Sure, it'll be a hard sell for Yara to make to her people, but it was a good deal for her.

One thing that popped in my mind, about Dany accepting their independence, is simply, they showed up 1st, of everyone from Westeros. That, and giving her a fleet.

While I thought that at first, that would defeat Tyrion's plan which was you know....to get ships. They made a lesson of one ship.

edit: You sly fox.
edit2: And monkey, dammit.

Thinking about that old theory, "what if" America had just detonated one nuke off the coast of Japan, instead of onto it. "See our power and surrender."

 

[Blue Ninja]

Also, Tyrion's "tell your people what happened here" cracks me up.

 

[Jayof9s]

Dany specifically recognized their independence. Dany and Yara are two queens in an alliance now, hence the handshake to seal the deal instead of any kneeling. If Dany wins and rules Westeros, they no longer have to worry about the Iron Throne coming to try and reclaim the Islands so long as they don't raid Westeros anymore. I'm honestly surprised Dany gave them a deal that good. Sure, it'll be a hard sell for Yara to make to her people, but it was a good deal for her.

I mean, the Iron Islands are kind of a shit hole anyhow. I doubt the 7 kingdoms are really missing out. It's more of a question of how the iron islands will stay viable without reaping. I didn't get the impression they grow a lot of food there or mine much. They can go become fishermen I suppose?

 

[demosthenes]

Anyone think we'll ever see anything from the Iron Bank again? Or will that story line in all its forms be dropped.

 

[hoos30]

So last week some people objected when I said this show is basically appealing to the Transformer audience.

But is there any doubt after this episode? Sure, it was a decently shot and staged battle/action scene, but is there anything to the show beyond that?

The characters' actions defied all logic, the dead bodies piling up on itself in the middle of an open field defied the laws of physic, the outcome was never in doubt despite hamfisted attempts to get the audience to think otherwise.

And let's not even mention that the site where Stannis was camped and Shireen was burnt is now confirmed to be right next to Winterfell, so why did Stannis have to burn her again?

Yes, there is doubt.

 

[Baldwin_the_First]

Well, Dany wants the ships intact after all.

It's actually impressive that both Viserion and Rhaegal followed Drogon's lead and didn't just go rampant.

Speaking of Viserion and Rhaegal: Tyrion released them three episodes ago, what were they doing still breaking out of the pyramid?

He unchained them but they stayed in the pyramid of their own free will.

 

[Crisco]

Honestly, the outcome of Jon's charge followed by the rest of his forces wasn't all that bad. Thanks to Ramsay's idiotic decision to indiscriminately fire onto a battle where his forces had the superior numbers, the two sides were almost even by the time he sent in Karstark.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Running after Rickon was fine and made sense character wise. The issue was Jon charging straight at the Bolton army by himself after Rickon died. Why not try to take Rickon's body back to his army instead?

Idk man, I feel having your last living brother murdered in front of your eyes would make you pretty irrational

Probably

Maybe

 

[Blue Ninja]

He unchained them but they stayed in the pyramid of their own free will.

Ooh, okay. Thanks.

Running after Rickon was fine and made sense character wise. The issue was Jon charging straight at the Bolton army by himself after Rickon died. Why not try to take Rickon's body back to his army instead?

Well, he was pissed as fuck and it was either that or get skewered by those oncoming arrows.

 

[Iksenpets]

Watching the final scene again, maybe I overstated my problems with it. It's not like she feeds Ramsay to the dogs, not really... She doesn't open the gate for them or anything, it's already open and she just stands there. So instead of intentionally feeding him to his dogs, she just does nothing to stop it, which isn't as unhinged. It was nice of the dogs to wait for her to give a speech, though.




It's a little unclear. Dany said they should they should support her as queen of the Seven kingdoms, and respect the integrity of the Seven kingdoms. I thought that included the Iron Islands?

Yara tells Dany that Aegon took the Iron Islands, and they're asking Dany to give them back. Dany also asks what will happen if she agrees and everyone starts demanding their independence. They were definitely talking full independence. The stuff about integrity was just about respecting borders and not raiding.

 

[SpaceWolf]

Well, Dany wants the ships intact after all.

That was Dany's new fleet, she didn't want to burn it. It was a pure intimidation move to make them surrender.

While I thought that at first, that would defeat Tyrion's plan which was you know....to get ships. They made a lesson of one ship.

edit: You sly fox.
edit2: And monkey, dammit.

Oh man, I feel like such a fool...I'd completely forgotten. Forgive me High Sparrow, I have sinned!

 

[Fata1moose]

Thinking about that old theory, "what if" America had just detonated one nuke off the coast of Japan, instead of onto it. "See our power and surrender."

The bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were 3 days apart, they didn't surrender after the first bombing of Hiroshima so why would they had it been a bomb off the coast?

If I recall, they really wanted to keep their Emperor, which the US said wasn't an option, so they refused. Then we let them keep the Emperor after we bombed them anyway.

 

[Frank the Great]

I thought the Iron Islands will remain part of the Seven Kingdoms under Dany's rule, based on that conversation. How can she impose or enforce a no-raiding rule on another sovereign? My interpretation was that Yara initially proposed independence, but Dany countered with just supporting Yara's claim in return for an end to the raiding.

Just another example of shitty writing making something that should be clear indecipherable.

 

[A Human Becoming]

I'm still annoyed they replaced the Northern conspiracy with some Northern houses being mad at Robb for their kin dying instead of the Boltons and Freys who actually killed their family. I was really hoping the Umbers would switch sides at the end.

 

[Brakke]

I'm still annoyed they replaced the Northern conspiracy with some Northern houses being mad at Robb for their kin dying instead of the Boltons and Freys who actually killed their family. I was really hoping the Umbers would switch sides at the end.

Yeah also there was that business of Ramsay volleying arrows into his own troops. There was a clear break between Ramsay ordering the volley and Davos holding fire, and it seems like Ramsay's ranks should've been uncomfortable about him killing his own dudes. I figured *someone* would defect against Ramsay but alas.

 

[Caja 117]

Of course. She could tie him to a chair and push bamboo under his fingernails for a few weeks, or feed the dogs one part at a time to draw it out. His death was pretty quick and easy by Westerosi standards - he was gone in a few seconds. Again, not nice but nowhere near what he did or why.

Well we know the fate of the last person we saw going trough this.

As much as evil this person was, Having him captive was just an invitation for him to escape, His death was rather quick but not that quick.

 

[demosthenes]

I thought the Iron Islands will remain part of the Seven Kingdoms under Dany's rule, based on that conversation. How can she impose or enforce a no-raiding rule on another sovereign? My interpretation was that Yara initially proposed independence, but Dany countered with just supporting Yara's claim in return for an end to the raiding.

Just another example of shitty writing making something that should be clear indecipherable.

If she doesn't stop raiding/reaping/raping then she will take the Iron Islands by force.

 

[dubq]

It's a little unclear. Dany said they should they should support her as queen of the Seven kingdoms, and respect the integrity of the Seven kingdoms. I thought that included the Iron Islands?

- The Kingdom of the North : House Stark
- The Kingdom of the Vale and Sky : House Arryn
- The Kingdom of the Isles and Rivers : House Hoare (relegated to Houses Greyjoy and Tully respectively)
- The Kingdom of the Rock : House Lannister
- The Kingdom of the Reach : House Tyrell
- The Kingdom of the Stormlands : House Baratheon
- The Kingdom of Dorne : House Martell

Perhaps this removes the Iron Islands from the Seven Kingdoms, then..

 

[demosthenes]

- The Kingdom of the North : House Stark
- The Kingdom of the Vale and Sky : House Arryn
- The Kingdom of the Isles and Rivers : House Hoare (relegated to Houses Greyjoy and Tully respectively)
- The Kingdom of the Rock : House Lannister
- The Kingdom of the Reach : House Tyrell
- The Kingdom of the Stormlands : House Baratheon
- The Kingdom of Dorne : House Martell

Perhaps this removes the Iron Islands from the Seven Kingdoms, then..

Just changes to kingdom of the Riverlands then.

 

[Ledsen]

Hooooly shit what an episode. Action scenes were insane, the budget alone... Direction was stellar, characters acted in-character, things made sense and even the DIALOGUE was good! Incredible what an upswing from the last few eps. GoT is back baby!

...oh, and though it was some pretty cheap and obvious revenge torture porn, I was pumping my fists and screaming from the moment Jon put his fist through Ramsays face right up until the dogs ate him.

 

[Henkka]

- The Kingdom of the North : House Stark
- The Kingdom of the Vale and Sky : House Arryn
- The Kingdom of the Isles and Rivers : House Hoare (relegated to Houses Greyjoy and Tully respectively)
- The Kingdom of the Rock : House Lannister
- The Kingdom of the Reach : House Tyrell
- The Kingdom of the Stormlands : House Baratheon
- The Kingdom of Dorne : House Martell

Perhaps this removes the Iron Islands from the Seven Kingdoms, then..

So, if Yara got independence and ruled as queen, Dany would be the queen of Six, not Seven kingdoms. That was what confused me.

 

[Oldest Snake]

Man, Wun-Wun's a fucking bitch huh? Good job Ramsay locked that gate otherwise he would have been completely useless. A shame we won't get to see that caring, considerate bastard anymore.

Also congrats to Dany. You have the support of the most worthless House in Westeros and you've demanded they stopped doing the only thing they have the skill set to do... besides building boats on islands with no trees.

 

[Blue Ninja]

So, if Yara got independence and ruled as queen, Dany would be the queen of Six, not Seven kingdoms. That was what confused me.

The Seven Kingdoms have never been really defined. There's been way more than that over the histories.

 

[Anton Sugar]

So last week some people objected when I said this show is basically appealing to the Transformer audience.

But is there any doubt after this episode? Sure, it was a decently shot and staged battle/action scene, but is there anything to the show beyond that?

The characters' actions defied all logic, the dead bodies piling up on itself in the middle of an open field defied the laws of physic, the outcome was never in doubt despite hamfisted attempts to get the audience to think otherwise.

And let's not even mention that the site where Stannis was camped and Shireen was burnt is now confirmed to be right next to Winterfell, so why did Stannis have to burn her again?

Yeah, it was a fantastically staged episode, but still had lots of dumb logic.

I have friends freaking out on FB saying its the best hour of television they've ever seen. Perhaps it is I who is the fool.

 

[Veritigo_X]

So, if Yara got independence and ruled as queen, Dany would be the queen of Six, not Seven kingdoms. That was what confused me.

I don't think the Iron Islands were ever counted in the 7.

1. North
2. Westerlands
3. Riverlands
4. Vale
5. Storm Lands
6. Reach
7. Dorne

The Iron Islands and Crownlands (Dragonstone and King's Landing) are their own separate things.

 

[bengraven]

I wonder if Tyrion will tell Theon about Ros.

I wonder if the last episode will be Euron arriving already and being murdered immediately by Dany and will basically be the end of the Ironborn story - Dorne style.

I wonder how Littlefinger is going to manipulate Sansa further. Probably talk her out of letting Jon stay.

I wonder when Bran will return.

 

[demosthenes]

So, if Yara got independence and ruled as queen, Dany would be the queen of Six, not Seven kingdoms. That was what confused me.

No. The former kingdom was Iron Islands + Riverlands combined. When the family died out, the kingdom was in effect split into two. Iron Islands and Riverlands are considered 1 kingdom still. If Iron Islands have their independence then you would just have Riverlands.

 

[Gigglepoo]

This is a world where people get their heads chopped off for lying, fingers chopped off for smuggling, and duels are a perfectly acceptable way to determine if someone is guilty or innocent. In this world Sansa is not a war criminal.

I asked this before but didn't get an answer: Is there anything a heroic character can do to a villainous character that would be seen as excessively violent or cruel?

Of course. She could tie him to a chair and push bamboo under his fingernails for a few weeks, or feed the dogs one part at a time to draw it out. His death was pretty quick and easy by Westerosi standards - he was gone in a few seconds. Again, not nice but nowhere near what he did or why.

Sorry, didn't see this before I made the above post. I'm glad that there is a line heroic characters could cross in your mind. That settles this debate!

 

[Brakke]

"Seven Kingdoms" is a historical name, it doesn't reflect the truth on the ground in Westeros. There are like nine let's call them "provinces" at the start of the show: The North, The Iron Islands, The Riverlands, The Vale, The Westerlands, The Reach, The Crownlands, The Stormlands, Dorne. These nine provinces (eight if we count The Crownlands as the Crown itself, tho we might not want to do that) pledge fealty directly to the Crown, and have bannermen pledged to them. Plus, the Crown organizes the military force of Westeros into four regions, headed by Wardens (North, South, East, West).

 

[Anton Sugar]

Is there anything a heroic character can do to a villainous character that would be seen as excessively violent or cruel?

Are we talking "shades of grey" villain like Tywin or "black and white" villain like Ramsay?

I think it would be easier for a hero to be painted as acting cruel vs a Tywin than a Ramsay. Ramsay was smiling when Jon was beating the shit out of him, after all.

 

[Moff]

I don't think the Iron Islands were ever counted in the 7.

1. North
2. Westerlands
3. Riverlands
4. Vale
5. Storm Lands
6. Reach
7. Dorne

The Iron Islands and Crownlands (Dragonstone and King's Landing) are their own separate things.

my ASOIAF lore is rusty but I think it was the riverlands, which were not one of the 7 kingdoms

 

[Henkka]

Ok, thanks for clearing that up.

I don't think they'll be killing off Euron immediately... They need a villain for next season.

 

[Blue Ninja]

Ok, thanks for clearing that up.

I don't think they'll be killing off Euron immediately... They need a villain for next season.

After the reception Euron got, I can totally see him getting Dorne'd in the first few episodes.

Speaking of villains, I'm glad the Smalljon got fucked as well. His father was so cool, and then they turn the Smalljon into such a douchebag, I don't get it.

 

[John Dunbar]

my ASOIAF lore is rusty but I think it was the riverlands, which were not one of the 7 kingdoms

there was actually a king of the isles and the rivers, but he kicked the bucket when westeros was conquered and it split into the iron islands and the riverlands.

 

[demosthenes]

my ASOIAF lore is rusty but I think it was the riverlands, which were not one of the 7 kingdoms

"River and Isles" were one of the 7 kingdoms.

When the house died off, the Greyjoys were given control of the Iron Islands. The Tulleys were given control of the Riverlands.

 

[Matsukaze]

Speaking of villains, I'm glad the Smalljon got fucked as well. His father was so cool, and then they turn the Smalljon into such a douchebag, I don't get it.

Remember earlier this season when he first showed up and some folks dared to dream that handing over Rickon was some elaborate NC ploy? Seems like a lifetime ago lol.

 

[Blue Ninja]

Remember earlier this season when he first showed up and some folks dared to dream that handing over Rickon was some elaborate NC ploy? Seems like a lifetime ago lol.

I was one of them. :'(