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[Gabriel_Logan]

That's a pretty good shot. Really sums up the comparisons and differences between Dany and Jon in the show. Even shows how different their rises to the top were.


The show really pushed the comparisons between the two this last episode. Even their band of misfits are similar now:

Savior: Dany/Jon
Hand: Tyrion/Davos
Woman: Missandie/Sansa
Sneaky guy: Varys/Littlefinger
Red woman: Mel/whoever that other one is
Swordsman out on a quest: Jorah/Brienne
Guy all the ladies love: Daario/Pod the Rod
Group the Savior.. saved: Unsullied/Wildlings
Guy who leads them: Grey Worm/Tormund
Group that saved them this episode: Dothraki/Vale
Group they recruited: Greyjoys/The North (probably)
Magic: Dragons/Greenseer Bran


I'm guessing Dany/Varys will recruit Dorne as the actual parallel to Jon now having the North so perhaps next season Jon will recruit someone else to parallel the Greyjoys/Second Sons. Maybe the BwB?

I never knew how much I wanted a Bronn vs Daario fight.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Some of the stuff about YI TI, Asshai & the Shadow Lands, Sothoryos is super interesting.

Sadly the citadels knowledge grows thinner the farther we travel from the lands that the men of the East call the sunset kingdoms. For Congress with the more distant realms of Essos has ever been spares. We know even less about the southern reaches of Sothoryos and far Ulthos and nothing at all about whatever lands may lie beyond the last light and across the sunset sea

Jaenara Belaerys flew her dragon, Terrax farther South than any man or woman had ever gone before, seeking the boiling seas a steaming rivers if legend, but found only endless jungles, deserts and mountains she returned to the freehold after three years to declare that Sothoryos was as large as Essos "A land without end"

The Sothoryi are big boned creatures, massively muscled with long arms and sloped foreheads. Huge square teeth heavy jaws and coarse black hair. Their broad noses suggest snouts and their tick skins are brindled in patters of brown and white that seem more hoglike than human

YI TI's golden castles and trio of God King Rulers
Apes bigger than Giants in Sothoryos
The strange shadow creatures mentioned beyond Asshai
That black rock everything in the part of the world seems to be made of

Crazy

 

[Randdalf]

Just watched it. The shooting in this episode was amazing, the battle was incredibly well done, they really captured what I imagined the horror of a throng of men fighting each other to be. Am I right in thinking there was a long-ish shot of Jon just wandering/fighting through the battle? That was incredible.

The dragons scene at the start was also the best the dragons have ever been. The budget for this episode must have been bigger than some movies.

The plot on the other hand was extremely predictable. I don't know about anyone else but I saw that Knights of the Vale rescue coming ever since Littlefinger's scenes early on in the season. Chekov's army, indeed. It also felt really derivative of the Blackwater. At least the end to that battle was somewhat unexpected, because you didn't know that Tywin had negotiated with the remainder of Renly's armies to fight against Stannis. I can't remember how well they communicated it in the book though.

Couldn't Sansa have whatsapped Littlefinger a little sooner?

 

[grandjedi6]

It feels like the only scene from that trailer I haven't seen anywhere else yet is the shadow kill at the 1:07 mark. The stabber is too skinny to be Varys.

Jamie killing the Mad King
Little Birds killing anyone in Kings Landing
Arya killing Walder Frey


I really hope it's not the last one but it wouldn't surprise me considering her story line was this year's Dorne.

 

[dabig2]

Some of the stuff about YI TI, Asshai & the Shadow Lands, Sothoryos is super interesting.


YI TI's golden castles and trio of God King Rulers
Apes bigger than Giants in Sothoryos
The strange shadow creatures mentioned beyond Asshai
That black rock everything in the part of the world seems to be made of

Crazy

Yeah, one of the more intriguing mysteries are the 5 forts.

The forts' walls are slabs of fused black stone almost a thousand feet high. Some think the walls are Valyrian in origin, although there is no record of Valyrians having visited the area and they even predate the rise of the Freehold. Each fort can house ten thousand men.[2]

The Five Forts predate the Golden Empire of Yi Ti. Some suggest they were built by the Pearl Emperor at the time of the Great Empire of the Dawn to defend against the demons of the Lion of Night. They currently guard the Golden Empire from raiders out of the Grey Waste.[2]

Though I doubt any of this will factor into the story later on even if these forts have a history with the white walkers and the Long Night.

 

[SMG]

Just watched it. The shooting in this episode was amazing, the battle was incredibly well done, they really captured what I imagined the horror of a throng of men fighting each other to be. Am I right in thinking there was a long-ish shot of Jon just wandering/fighting through the battle? That was incredible.

Tons of cuts, most were well hidden though. Much like the stairwell fight in Daredevil S2.

 

[Black_Sun]

That second horse charging in from the left had me shook. Serious impact!



Longclaw is a bastard sword, designed to be wielded with two hands. Jon had enough chain on his off-hand glove at least to hold the blade and block incoming swings with the sword. His technique obviously worked out super well: he beat everyone who came against him. What would a shield have accomplished for him that Longclaw didn't? He went in expecting to get charged and then fight on horseback at close range.

Not sure if serious?

Of course it worked. The show wasn't going to show Jon getting killed again.

And you need a shield for arrow fire. It's a goddamn miracle that rains of arrows was hitting everyone but Jon.

It's also a Valyrian steel longswords and as you can see in the gifs Jon wasn't wielding it with two hands. He was mostly one handing it

 

[grandjedi6]

I never knew how much I wanted a Bronn vs Daario fight.

This is very possible next season. If Jamie ends up spending next season in Kings Landing then Bronn will have to go do something else. I could see Jamie finally giving him his castle and wife, only for it to turn out to be ground zero in Dany's invasion. Would be just his luck.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Whether he's a good character or not, I don't understand Euron's purpose in the show. Does he exist just to force Osha and Theon to meet up with Dany? I can't imagine he'll have a significant narrative purpose in the coming seasons considering how little time there is left.

 

[Majmun]

The white walkers?

They've been the main villains since the beginning of the show, literally. The show starts with them.

But I was talking about another crazy human being. First it was Cersei, then Goffrey, then Ramsay took his place...

Who are we going to hate next?

 

[nOoblet16]

Jon and Danny fight the whitewalkers, then they fall in love and Danny legitimises Jon and they marry that is the only way this series ends. (And if Jon turns out to be a Targaryen through her mother's side then that fullfills the Targaryen practice of marrying within family )

 

[StalkerUKCG]

They've been the main villains since the beginning of the show, literally. The show starts with them.

But I was talking about another crazy human being. First it was Goffrey, then Ramsay took his place...

Who are we going to hate next?

Euron could be turned into a real serious villain. 2 seasons left at the least.

 

[nOoblet16]

That second horse charging in from the left had me shook. Serious impact!



Longclaw is a bastard sword, designed to be wielded with two hands. Jon had enough chain on his off-hand glove at least to hold the blade and block incoming swings with the sword. His technique obviously worked out super well: he beat everyone who came against him. What would a shield have accomplished for him that Longclaw didn't? He went in expecting to get charged and then fight on horseback at close range.

But a Bastard Sword is called so specifically because it can be used as both two handed or one handed weapon. it has the length of a single handed sword with a grip that also allows wielding with two hands.

 

[rando14]

Euron is almost guaranteed to be the next "crazy guy" villain. It's a little forced but, eh, I guess the show needs one.

My guess is he does some crazy shit next season, but dies at the end of the season, with the show ultimately establishing the White walkers as the "Final boss" of the show for season 8.

 

[nOoblet16]

They've been the main villains since the beginning of the show, literally. The show starts with them.

But I was talking about another crazy human being. First it was Cersei, then Goffrey, then Ramsay took his place...

Who are we going to hate next?

We still have High Sparrow and Tommen the idiot.

 

[CloudWolf]

The way the battle was shot reminded me a lot of Kingdom of Heaven. I loved it. Though I did have to laugh at the blatant Lord of the Rings rip they pulled at the end with the Knights of the Vale.

We still have High Sparrow and Tommen the idiot.

I have the feeling that Tommen will die next episode. His storyline is going nowhere and Cersei still needs to see all her children die. If next season is truly going to be the last (split in two), Tommen will have to die sooner rather than later.

 

[grandjedi6]

I wonder if Tyrion will tell Theon about Ros.

I'm more interested in whether Tyrion will tell Theon about Littlefinger betraying Ned. Because Theon would then try to tell Sansa and....

 

[Brakke]

Not sure if serious?

Of course it worked. The show wasn't going to show Jon getting killed again.

And you need a shield for arrow fire. It's a goddamn miracle that rains of arrows was hitting everyone but Jon.

It's also a Valyrian steel longswords and as you can see in the gifs Jon wasn't wielding it with two hands. He was mostly one handing it

I'm saying, Jon wasn't expecting to have to deal with arrow fire, at least not at first. The plan going in was to let the Bolton host charge his army. Once the melee joins, nobody -- except lunatic Ramsay -- would be firing arrows. In any case, his horses weren't armored so the only way the cavalry we're going to beat the arrows was by closing the distance at full tilt. That was the whole thing in the planning room: the only win for Jon is if the Bolton host charges first and are defeated. If Ramsay had advanced his archers, Jon would've just backed up ten feet into the tree cover and they would've had a standoff.

Jon's constantly wielding Longclaw with two hands even if they're not both on the hilt. He holds the blade in his left hand to use the blade to block incoming blows, he throws punches to stagger opponents and create openings. Shields compensate for lack of skill; Jon doesn't need a shield in melee, he can dodge and parry and block just fine without one.

 

[wesleyshark]

Whether he's a good character or not, I don't understand Euron's purpose in the show. Does he exist just to force Osha and Theon to meet up with Dany? I can't imagine he'll have a significant narrative purpose in the coming seasons considering how little time there is left.

I can't see them bringing him in this late to the series just to do nothing with him. In the books he's got some serious power and he's absolutely mad- but the things he has in the books haven't been introduced in the show yet, if they ever will, so I have no idea what they plan to do with him... but it's gotta be something more than just being the push for Theon and Yara to go to Mereen.

 

[Turin]

So Euron's going to be Dany's Ramsay?

Rewatched the episode; still as enjoyable.

I said it in my initial reaction post, but I'll say it again; this is Jon's resurrection episode.

I don't get why people are being so hard on him; the war council came up with a solid plan, and Jon made two mistakes; failing to take Sansa's advice seriously, and caring for his brother. Ramsey may have played that particular card well, but what is Jon to do? He's see his little brother running for his life, Ramsey's intentions clear. Is he to do nothing, to sit and watch? It's not being noble, it's not being naive; it's being emotional and reactionary to his brother's life being threatened. Jon, the stalwart of right, irrespective of code or honor (Ygritte, meeting with Mance, allowing the Wildlings passage - all examples of Jon defying convention for what feels right), chases to SAVE his brother. Whether it was bait by Ramsey is irrelevant, because Jon chooses to try.

Tormund highlights this, in pleading under his breath for Jon not to take the bait fully. Jon's emotions take over, and he makes mistake number two. Both are forgivable; his combat prowess outshines Sansa's, and the heat of the moment emotion is also understandable. There's a rawness to him that speaks to us on a level that other characters don't; not many of us are are scheming as Littlefinger, as cruel as Joffrey or Ramsey, or as vicious as the Mountain. Jon makes mistakes, he falls in love with who he wants to, he defies tradition and he acts impulsively. Much like our own lives, he also falls victims to his mistakes and choices, and whilst a lot of the themes and characters in ASOIAF are balanced, morally grey and multi-faceted, Jon is one of the more human characters, who rises from the depths of obscurity to levels he's not totally comfortable with.

The battle takes an interesting turn for Jon, IMO, when he falls from his horse. This is when the contractions start in his rebirth. Watch the scene again; just before he removes his scabbard, he gives a nod, a nod of acceptance IMO. He's accepting his fate, and plans to go down in a blaze of glory. This is rock bottom for him.

Once his death is averted by his own cavalry charging in, instinct takes over, and he fights on. It's brutal, and raw, and full of anger and self-preservation. There's no flair or showmanship. It's abundantly clear he's a very capable swordsman too, much like Ramsey tells him, if the stories are true. One of the best living swordsman in Westeros, maybe?

Anyway, Jon's revival as a character takes a further turn when he's pushed over, and is being trampled on. Credit to the show, because this sequence is terrifying, claustrophobic, and extremely tense. I may be reading too much in to it (and I'm preparing for the quoting of that in relation to the whole post), but I think I hear Jon give a muffled "no" in amongst the shouting and panting. To juxtapose his acceptance of death earlier facing the cavalry charge, he's refusing to die, and choosing to fight on. His gasp of fresh (ish) air as he scurries above the crush of bodies is extremely symbolic; Jon is now reborn into the man he's going to be.

It's telling, that when Tormund saves his ass early in the fight, that he almost has to reassure Jon, giving him a look to snap him out of the red mist that's descended. Come the beating of Ramsey, Jon looks at Sansa and has the humanity to stop and walk away, knowing that Ramsey's life isn't necessarily his to take. It says a lot about him IMO.

There's a lot of subtleties that are depicted, and that's not down to the writers before someone says I'm giving D&D too much credit. That's very much in the direction, and maybe it'll be swept under the rug and Jon will carry on questioning why he's here, but I'd love to hope that we will look back on that battle as the turning point for Jon Snow.

Also, can I just say, that pretty much every second of Dany's scenes were on point. The Dragons looked awesome, riding Drogon actually looked good, the shots of the three dragons dying above Mereen were brilliant and the interaction between Dany, Tyrion, Yara and Theon were some of Dany's best, IMO. We get one of the best episodes of the season, if not one of the best ever, and still people rip it apart. To each his own I guess, but it seems a shame not to enjoy an episode like that.

Wow. Great post.

 

[Jarmel]

I want to see Jon face off against a good swordsman at some point.

It'll probably be the Night King I guess.

 

[CloudWolf]

Whether he's a good character or not, I don't understand Euron's purpose in the show. Does he exist just to force Osha and Theon to meet up with Dany? I can't imagine he'll have a significant narrative purpose in the coming seasons considering how little time there is left.

It's pretty obvious to me that he was cut from the show at first, but for some mysterious reason D&D added him back in way too late to actually leave any impact. Maybe they were originally planning to make the Dorne plot play a bigger role, but the fan reception made them change their mind and they had to add other book characters to make up for it.

 

[Black_Sun]

What did Yara and Theon get out of their deal with Dany? Presumably Dany will help them kill Euron. But in exchange, they'll give up their ships, their independence and way of life. They say Euron took the throne from Yara, but in reality she just lost what is the closest thing to a democratic election in Westeros. Who's she to make the call that the Ironborn should change their entire way of life to appease some dragon queen? Should've just sold some ships and bought a faceless man to kill Euron, apparently even actors can afford them!

/annoying nitpicks

That's not how that works. The cost of an FM is proportional to how important your target is. LF says that they'd be able to buy a sellsword army for half the price to kill a merchant. A king would cost a lot more.

That's why it's extremely likely that Euron hired an FM with a dragon egg to do the deed for him.

 

[CloudWolf]

What did Yara and Theon get out of their deal with Dany? Presumably Dany will help them kill Euron. But in exchange, they'll give up their ships, their independence and way of life. They say Euron took the throne from Yara, but in reality she just lost what is the closest thing to a democratic election in Westeros. Who's she to make the call that the Ironborn should change their entire way of life to appease some dragon queen? Should've just sold some ships and bought a faceless man to kill Euron, apparently even actors can afford them!

/annoying nitpicks

That kind of annoyed me too. I guess she has some kind of claim so she could choose to rebel against Euron (going by my knowledge of Medieval election from Crusader Kings 2), but then Dany claims that they're the same because 'both their fathers were killed by an usurper' and clearly D&D believe this as well taking into consideration how the entire Kingsmoot scene played out, but Euron is no usurper, he got the throne fairly according to the Ironborn law. In fact, Yara would be the usurper.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Yeah, one of the more intriguing mysteries are the 5 forts.


Though I doubt any of this will factor into the story later on even if these forts have a history with the white walkers and the Long Night.

Wow, Yeah that is crazy.

Man I want the world to be properly explored.

 

[Brakke]

I want to see Jon face off against a good swordsman at some point.

It'll probably be the Night King I guess.

He did face down that Walker at Hardhome.

 

[LifEndz]

So the North is sort of devasted right now in terms of military might. Less than 100 men at the wall, House Bolton gone, House Umber decimated...I wonder where they go from here. The Wildlings are now a vital part of any defense they have, and they were at 2k fighting men.

 

[Byakuya769]

I don't see how Sansa is a tactical genius here. All she did was accept Littlefinger's offer and then not tell Jon about it...?

Everything else about the plan was legit. Only fuck up was Jon giving into anger and storming them when Rickon died. Which Sansa did warn him about...I'll give her that.

Yeah, not sure how getting used by little finger is a sign of brilliance. But I feel like a lot of people are reading a lot into a pretty bare narrative that just so happened to have looked cool.

 

[Black_Sun]

That kind of annoyed me too. I guess she has some kind of claim so she could choose to rebel against Euron (going by my knowledge of Medieval election from Crusader Kings 2), but then Dany claims that they're the same because 'both their fathers were killed by an usurper' and clearly D&D believe this as well taking into consideration how the entire Kingsmoot scene played out, but Euron is no usurper, he got the throne fairly according to the Ironborn law. In fact, Yara would be the usurper.

Yara's basically the Viserys/Tattered Prince of Showsteros at this point

 

[Black_Sun]

The way the battle was shot reminded me a lot of Kingdom of Heaven. I loved it. Though I did have to laugh at the blatant Lord of the Rings rip they pulled at the end with the Knights of the Vale.



I have the feeling that Tommen will die next episode. His storyline is going nowhere and Cersei still needs to see all her children die. If next season is truly going to be the last (split in two), Tommen will have to die sooner rather than later.

If Tommen dies then who will Daenerys fight?

 

[Cesare Borgia]

How the hell did a big Vale army get past Moat Cailin without being halted and/or Winterfell being alerted? I haven't seen the episode yet. Or is this just more convenient D&D writing.

 

[Gigglepoo]

How the hell did a big Vale army get past Moat Cailin without being halted and/or Winterfell being alerted? I haven't seen the episode yet. Or is this just more convenient D&D writing.

It's the latter. Logic is for losers.

 

[dabig2]

That kind of annoyed me too. I guess she has some kind of claim so she could choose to rebel against Euron (going by my knowledge of Medieval election from Crusader Kings 2), but then Dany claims that they're the same because 'both their fathers were killed by an usurper' and clearly D&D believe this as well taking into consideration how the entire Kingsmoot scene played out, but Euron is no usurper, he got the throne fairly according to the Ironborn law. In fact, Yara would be the usurper.

I wonder how Dorne is going to shake up on the show in regards to Dany. Her sister-in-law's royal family was just murdered violently by the sand snakes in a clear usurpation of power. They're really no different than Euron.

 

[Phrozenflame500]

I'm super conflicted about this episode. On one hand, almost every scene is gorgeous. On the other hand, the plot represents almost everything I dislike about the way the show is going.

 

[A Human Becoming]

Pretty sure that was in Bran's flash-vision of Jamie killing the Mad King

I re-watched the scene, it's not that.

That kind of annoyed me too. I guess she has some kind of claim so she could choose to rebel against Euron (going by my knowledge of Medieval election from Crusader Kings 2), but then Dany claims that they're the same because 'both their fathers were killed by an usurper' and clearly D&D believe this as well taking into consideration how the entire Kingsmoot scene played out, but Euron is no usurper, he got the throne fairly according to the Ironborn law. In fact, Yara would be the usurper.

He didn't get it fairly: he killed his king.

 

[Turin]

I want to see Jon face off against a good swordsman at some point.

It'll probably be the Night King I guess.

Styr was pretty tough.

If you're just talking about getting him into a basic sword fight for once, I agree.

 

[blazenumb1]

I'm more interested in whether Tyrion will tell Theon about Littlefinger betraying Ned. Because Theon would then try to tell Sansa and....

I have been anxiously awaiting the moment when Jon or Sansa find out that littlefinger betrayed ned. Although, I wouldn't be surprised if somehow he talks himself out of it.

 

[Moff]

I re-watched the scene, it's not that.

I'm pretty sure it's jaime and aerys.
bran's vision had a lot of stuff in it that was already shown in his visions and stuff that we will see more of, like blood lyanna. I think we will get an extended version of jaime/arys in the finale. I still doubt they will blow up kings landing next week, but there has been a lot of talk about the wildfire.

 

[Yen]

Some of the stuff about YI TI, Asshai & the Shadow Lands, Sothoryos is super interesting.


YI TI's golden castles and trio of God King Rulers
Apes bigger than Giants in Sothoryos
The strange shadow creatures mentioned beyond Asshai
That black rock everything in the part of the world seems to be made of

Crazy

Sorta sad we'll never get to see anything like this in the show. Maybe in the ASOIAFCU in 30 years.

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

So the North is sort of devasted right now in terms of military might. Less than 100 men at the wall, House Bolton gone, House Umber decimated...I wonder where they go from here. The Wildlings are now a vital part of any defense they have, and they were at 2k fighting men.

I'm assuming some of the other big northern houses were playing a game of "wait and see". Still though, the whole region would be massively depopulated, especially of fighting age men. Between:

-Much of Robb's army being massacred at the Red Wedding.
-Ironborn raiding and ransacking much of the North with impunity.
-Boltons' sacking of Winterfell and retaking of regions from the Ironborn.
-Large-scale wildling raids.
-The Night's Watch essentially being wiped out as a force between the Fist of the First Men and the attack on the Wall.
-Stannis' army arriving, scattering or eliminating a huge wildling force, but wiped out by hunger (and 20 good men lol).
-Much of the wildlings massacred at Hardhome before they could join the fray.
-And now yet another destructive battle which whittled down both sides of not far off 10,000 men.

Add onto what I'd assume is considerable seasonal migration to the south once winter starts, and you're talking about one heck of a depopulated region.

 

[A Human Becoming]

I'm pretty sure it's jaime and aerys.
bran's vision had a lot of stuff in it that was already shown in his visions and stuff that we will see more of, like blood lyanna. I think we will get an extended version of jaime/arys in the finale. I still doubt they will blow up kings landing next week, but there has been a lot of talk about the wildfire.

Instead of ya'll telling me I'm wrong, actually go re-watch the episode. Jaime killing Aerys is not seen in shadows: 5:54 mark episode 6.

EDIT: Unless you meant we'll see the shadow kill in the finale or it was from an episode before the Bran vision montage.

 

[Gigglepoo]

I'm super conflicted about this episode. On one hand, almost every scene is gorgeous. On the other hand, the plot represents almost everything I dislike about the way the show is going.

I mean, that kind of explains the show now, doesn't it? Beautifully shot and acted but with poor character development and baffling narrative logic. It's impossible to analyze on anything more than a superficial level because a lot of the reasons characters do things is simply "because the writers wanted them to."

I still try to enjoy it for what it is but I do get disenchanted whenever D&D hand wave another important plot point.

 

[Moff]

Instead of ya'll telling me I'm wrong, actually go re-watch the episode. Jaime killing Aerys is not seen in shadows: 5:54 mark episode 6.

what I was trying to tell you is that the killing (from the trailer) may be shown in the finale in one of brans visions

 

[Cromwell]

So the North is sort of devasted right now in terms of military might. Less than 100 men at the wall, House Bolton gone, House Umber decimated...I wonder where they go from here. The Wildlings are now a vital part of any defense they have, and they were at 2k fighting men.

Littlefinger fields the strongest army in the North, now.

 

[A Human Becoming]

what I was trying to tell you is that the killing (from the trailer) may be shown in the finale in one of brans visions

See my edit.

That could be the case, but including it after showing the actually killing seems weird to me. Are we sure that shadow kill did not happen anywhere else this season?

Littlefinger fields the strongest army in the North, now.

He did want to be Warden of the North.

 

[SargerusBR]

 

[Speevy]

Did Ramsay say "Their army is gone."

What was he watching?

 

[JuanLatino]

so if the Jon Snow Theory turns out to be true (beeing a Tagaryen) how will it help and/or affect him?

He can't prove that he is a Tagaryen

i hope next weeks episode will show the tower scene again.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

so if the Jon Snow Theory turns out to be true (beeing a Tagaryen) how will it help and/or affect him?

He can't prove that he is a Tagaryen

i hope next weeks episode will show the tower scene again.

He can't prove it unless the dragons only allow people of targaryen blood to ride them or some shit.

Or mysterious hand maiden who was hiding in the corner of the room when young Ned took him comes out and tells the truth x amount of years later.

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

Did Ramsay say "Their army is gone."

What was he watching?

I think he was trying to make light of a rather bad situation.