Also I'm pretty sure the bit with the dogs was an unintentional editing error. As much shit I give the show I accept pulling it off must be extremely hard, they have to put out ten episodes with dozens of international locations and a cast double or triple the size of most other shows, in a limited timeframe, so errors slip through. For me its obvious one of the takes has Sansa hearing about the dogs but it was edited out to give more weight to her threat or something, but it became a glaring hole in the writing.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 6
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
- Start date
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
wesleyshark
Banned
Lol... How is that even a plot hole in any way? They don't need to hold our hand in making basic assumptions.Also I'm pretty sure the bit with the dogs was an unintentional editing error. As much shit I give the show I accept pulling it off must be extremely hard, they have to put out ten episodes with dozens of international locations and a cast double or triple the size of most other shows, in a limited timeframe, so errors slip through. For me its obvious one of the takes has Sansa hearing about the dogs but it was edited out to give more weight to her threat or something, but it became a glaring hole in the writing.
Lol... How is that even a plot hole in any way? They don't need to hold our hand in making basic assumptions.
Character talks about something he/she did not hear? how is that not a plothole? Yes, it happened off-screen, but at this point there's waaay too many important plot points happening offscreen. They screwed up.
BobTheFork
Member
Lol... How is that even a plot hole in any way? They don't need to hold our hand in making basic assumptions.
It's like people expected him to say "how could you possibly know that?!?! You weren't standing there when I mentioned the dogs"
"*smirk* Jon spoiled your secret to me later"
It's worse than when Sansa 'knew' that her mother and Robb died, having not been there to see it. Tyrion goes to tell her and she already somehow knows? #PLOTHOLE
I don't care that it's cliche and corny as fuck, I really want next season to have Jon, sansa, arya, and bran all back together and working to get ready for the whitewalkers.
Battle of the bastards was the best battle scene I've ever watched. The absolute viciousness and brutality of it. Nothing was pretty or heroic about it, just ugly and intense and mesmerizing. Jon almost suffocating had me feeling short of breathe and panicky they filmed it so well. And that absolutely incredible long shot following Jon. It's almost a shame the mereen scenes came before because that battle was amazing as well. Drogan landing right behind dany without a flinch was badass. But as awesome as it was, it gets completely overshadowed by battle of the bastards.
I look forward to the inevitable mass battle between the whitewalkers and dany/starks.
Battle of the bastards was the best battle scene I've ever watched. The absolute viciousness and brutality of it. Nothing was pretty or heroic about it, just ugly and intense and mesmerizing. Jon almost suffocating had me feeling short of breathe and panicky they filmed it so well. And that absolutely incredible long shot following Jon. It's almost a shame the mereen scenes came before because that battle was amazing as well. Drogan landing right behind dany without a flinch was badass. But as awesome as it was, it gets completely overshadowed by battle of the bastards.
I look forward to the inevitable mass battle between the whitewalkers and dany/starks.
wesleyshark
Banned
I guess I just fail to understand how sansa hearing about dogs not being fed off screen is a screw up. That's such a ridiculous nitpick of the most cringiest order lol.Character talks about something he/she did not hear? how is that not a plothole? Yes, it happened off-screen, but at this point there's waaay too many important plot points happening offscreen. They screwed up.
Sansa also let her half-brother go to slaughter
Like:
-Sansa not informing Jon about the Vale army.
Jon wouldn't stick with the plan (or listen to Sansa's warnings) even when he knew it was their only chance for survival. Had Sansa told him about Littlefinger, would he have done anything smarter when he saw Rickon running towards him? Hell, Jon might have done something even dumber or tipped off Ramsay.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
In the books, it seems as if there might be a war of the five queens.My non-book brother asked me last night if I thought the endgame of the series was going to be an all female affair. Margaery, Dany, Yara/Asha, Sansa, and Dorne are all setup this season. Never really thought about it. Any pure book theories speculate like this?
I guess I just fail to understand how sansa hearing about dogs not being fed off screen is a screw up. That's such a ridiculous nitpick of the most cringiest order lol.
Yes, it's a small nitpick. I'm not saying the episode was horrible because of it or anything lol.
demosthenes
Member
If you want to nitpick anything, nitpick how they got him in there to begin with, and then sit and wait for him to wake up. Patient starved dogs.
Gabriel_Logan
Member
My non-book brother asked me last night if I thought the endgame of the series was going to be an all female affair. Margaery, Dany, Yara/Asha, Sansa, and Dorne are all setup this season. Never really thought about it. Any pure book theories speculate like this?
wouldn't' be surprising, GRRM is a pro feminist and puts that into his writing frequently.
My non-book brother asked me last night if I thought the endgame of the series was going to be an all female affair. Margaery, Dany, Yara/Asha, Sansa, and Dorne are all setup this season. Never really thought about it. Any pure book theories speculate like this?
Littlefinger told Sansa in Feast of Crows that there would be a war of three Queens.
"...it is a good thing that I thrive on chaos. What little peace and order the five kings left us will not long survive the three queens, I fear.
demosthenes
Member
In show or book, do Varys/LF know about the looming White Walker threat? I have to assume Jon will be telling LF in epi10? Has Jon told Sansa on screen yet? Or has he just alluded to seeing things north of the wall?
If you want to nitpick anything, nitpick how they got him in there to begin with, and then sit and wait for him to wake up. Patient starved dogs.
A group of Stark men dragged his unconscious body into the kennels and tied it to a chair.
Then Sansa came in just in time to watch as he woke up.
Then they opened the cages to let the hounds out.
Finally, they roused Ramsay so Sansa could watch him get devoured by hounds.
It's pretty sick if you think about it.
Tyrion being all "HEY GUYS REMEMBER WILDFIRE I'M JUST GONNA PUT THAT OUT THERE. IT'S ALL OVER KING'S LANDING. I JUST WANTED TO REMIND YOU."
is worse than the dog thing.
"IT'S UNDER EVERY MAJOR LOCATION YO! THE RED KEEP! THE SEPT BAELOR! THE WHATEVER! BIATCH!!!!!"
Jon wouldn't stick with the plan (or listen to Sansa's warnings) even when he knew it was their only chance for survival. Had Sansa told him about Littlefinger, would he have done anything smarter when he saw Rickon running towards him? Hell, Jon might have done something even dumber or tipped off Ramsay.
I don't see how your answer is related to my dislike?
My problem is with Sansa. If it was on purpose to get rid of Jon, then it is great. I fear that the whole delayed arrival of the Vale army was just for drama though.
Anyways, if Jon would have known about the added troops, they could have come up with a whole different plan.
BTW, I also forgot to mention the laughable weak gate of Winterfell when I mentioned stuff that sucked.
So any guesses as to how the Starks will be gotten in touch with Dany?
Their main common known contact would be Tyrion, so I suppose he has a pretty big role to play there.
At first I thought at the pace they are going, Varys is heading to Westeros and ends up liaison with the Starks to get in touch with whomever the biggest ennemy of the Lanisters would be there, but in that optic Dorne makes probably more sense.
Their main common known contact would be Tyrion, so I suppose he has a pretty big role to play there.
At first I thought at the pace they are going, Varys is heading to Westeros and ends up liaison with the Starks to get in touch with whomever the biggest ennemy of the Lanisters would be there, but in that optic Dorne makes probably more sense.
SporeCrawler
Member
So the next lord of winterfell will be bran confirmed?
Anyways.. What do you guys think about the
theory
Anyways.. What do you guys think about the
sansa is pregnant
Mr_Antimatter
Member
My thoughts having had several days to digest this:
The north is in a terrible spot. Most of it's armies are gone, the nights watch is decimated, and winter is coming. House stark has little more then some serviving wildlings and what little forces the bannermen and other houses held back in which to fight the white walkers. They have basically nothing to fight the lannisters if they roll north with their 8000 men.
The presence of Vale knights is basically their only defense. I've no idea if Jamie would pick a fight with them, given we don't know their numbers, and they are entirely fresh, having only fought a single battle. I think any help from the Reach is basically nonexistance, thanks to Cersei and Tonmen's conversion. If Euron
Tonmen, well, I dont' envy him. The north is basically lost to his control, but he has gained the riverlands via the Frey's. Dorne is a lost cause, and by now his spies must know that Danny has a huge army and three mature dragons at her command, and the ships to bring them there. Provided his mom doesn't burn down the city around him with all that wildfire, It's looking like he could do only a handful of things: Acknowledge house stark's control, name another warden of the north and use his army to try to retake the castle, old back his forces to fight the white walkers (once they arrive), try to fight danny's forces when they arrive, or bend a knee and hope her forces don't kill him on the spot.
The north is in a terrible spot. Most of it's armies are gone, the nights watch is decimated, and winter is coming. House stark has little more then some serviving wildlings and what little forces the bannermen and other houses held back in which to fight the white walkers. They have basically nothing to fight the lannisters if they roll north with their 8000 men.
The presence of Vale knights is basically their only defense. I've no idea if Jamie would pick a fight with them, given we don't know their numbers, and they are entirely fresh, having only fought a single battle. I think any help from the Reach is basically nonexistance, thanks to Cersei and Tonmen's conversion. If Euron
attacks the reach they will be in their own trouble at that.
Spoilers
The Soundtrack pre-order is finally here! https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/game-thrones-season-6-music/id1126106075
The Soundtrack pre-order is finally here! https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/game-thrones-season-6-music/id1126106075
demosthenes
Member
Tommen will never live to see Dany.
wesleyshark
Banned
It is knownTommen will never live to see Dany.
SporeCrawler
Member
So... is house Stark over? Unless Bran marries (and can have children) their line has ended. I guess they'll legitimize Jon but then there is a Tower of Joy revelation that will change that.
Benjen, bran, john... They could also legitimize kids of sansa and arya
RandomSeed
Member
So... is house Stark over? Unless Bran marries (and can have children) their line has ended. I guess they'll legitimize Jon but then there is a Tower of Joy revelation that will change that.
House Stark words will be changed to We Know Nothing. Their flag will be changed into a wolf charging 1,000 arrows.
velociraptor
Junior Member
just saw the latest episode
fuck me
this is the best GOT episode i have ever see in my life
what a masterpiece
fuck me
this is the best GOT episode i have ever see in my life
what a masterpiece
Benjen, bran, john... They could also legitimize kids of sansa and arya
Zombie seed, treesap seed, bastard seed, ramsaybaby coming, destroyed womb.
demosthenes
Member
Benjen, bran, john... They could also legitimize kids of sansa and arya
Technically, house stark is over in the traditional sense. Benjen and Bran will never have kids. The only children to carry on the name will come from another male, not stark and they'll have to be ok with their children carrying on the name of stark instead of their own assuming someone has children with sansa/arya.
edit: What's the Sansa is pregnant theory? If she is, there is no way she'd keep Ramsay's baby.
My thoughts having had several days to digest this:
The north is in a terrible spot. Most of it's armies are gone, the nights watch is decimated, and winter is coming. House stark has little more then some serviving wildlings and what little forces the bannermen and other houses held back in which to fight the white walkers. They have basically nothing to fight the lannisters if they roll north with their 8000 men.
The presence of Vale knights is basically their only defense. I've no idea if Jamie would pick a fight with them, given we don't know their numbers, and they are entirely fresh, having only fought a single battle. I think any help from the Reach is basically nonexistance, thanks to Cersei and Tonmen's conversion. If EuronTonmen, well, I dont' envy him. The north is basically lost to his control, but he has gained the riverlands via the Frey's. Dorne is a lost cause, and by now his spies must know that Danny has a huge army and three mature dragons at her command, and the ships to bring them there. Provided his mom doesn't burn down the city around him with all that wildfire, It's looking like he could do only a handful of things: Acknowledge house stark's control, name another warden of the north and use his army to try to retake the castle, old back his forces to fight the white walkers (once they arrive), try to fight danny's forces when they arrive, or bend a knee and hope her forces don't kill him on the spot.attacks the reach they will be in their own trouble at that.
Now that their leaders are dead, what remains of Umbers, Bolton and Starks should naturally swear oath to the Starks (in theory). Many Lords should also rejoin the Stark Banner after seeing Winterfell back under Stark banner. What of the Manderlys?
Now, if, somehow, they would manage to get the Brotherhood to join their regular army (isn't the Brotherhood a bunch of Rob's previous army?), and kick the Freys in the goodies freeing Riverrun and Edmure in the process, they would have then unified the North and have a somewhat ok ragtag army with the Vale as allies (as reliable as Sweet Robin and LF can be, which is why LF might have to marry Sansa to Robin).
In theory, camp Stark could soon have the following leaders/ MVPs:
- Sansa Stark
- Arya Stark
- Bran Stark
- Jon Snow (Stark if legitimized by whomever is head of House)
- Brienne of Tarth
- Ser Davos Seaworth (not sure he's going to stay, but where would he go?)
- Tormund
- Red priestess Melissande (unless she gets a sword in the face from Davos)
- Northen houses that will honor their oath, including lady Mormont
Tenuous allies:
- Peter Baelish and Robin Aryn, Prince of the Vale
- The Watch
Possible:
- Brotherhood without banner (with possibly the Hound)
- House Tully (Edmure) once fred from the Freys)
BTW, I also forgot to mention the laughable weak gate of Winterfell when I mentioned stuff that sucked.
Yeah so weak only a fucking giant was able to punch through it. The things you people complain about, ffs..
Yeah the Stark line can only continue through Bran, and I don't think that's particularly likely to happen. They could legitimize Jon but he's probably a Targaryen so if we're just changing people's last names willy-nilly why even bother legitimizing him just name Sansa's kids Stark.
Stark is in a better spot than Baratheon at least, being that Baratheon is actually extinguished.
Stark is in a better spot than Baratheon at least, being that Baratheon is actually extinguished.
ChaosZeroX
Banned
Technically, house stark is over in the traditional sense. Benjen and Bran will never have kids. The only children to carry on the name will come from another male, not stark and they'll have to be ok with their children carrying on the name of stark instead of their own assuming someone has children with sansa/arya.
edit: What's the Sansa is pregnant theory? If she is, there is no way she'd keep Ramsay's baby.
WHy can't Benjen or Bran have kids?
DiscoShark
Banned
All the discussion about starving dogs and Sansa not telling Jon about a potential army aside, the most jarring thing for me was how a giant could sneak up all the way to Winterfell's gate without any Archer in the entire castle sounding the alarm miles before they got there.
Fight was nice though.
Fight was nice though.
demosthenes
Member
WHy can't Benjen or Bran have kids?
Because it makes 0 sense for either of them to have children ever. Bran most likely physically can't and well he's going to be a tree soon some how. Benjen probably physically can't either and probably wouldn't even if he could given his situation.
Yeah the Stark line can only continue through Bran, and I don't think that's particularly likely to happen. They could legitimize Jon but he's probably a Targaryen so if we're just changing people's last names willy-nilly why even bother legitimizing him just name Sansa's kids Stark.
Stark is in a better spot than Baratheon at least, being that Baratheon is actually extinguished.
Unless Tommen dies too soon Margeary is absolutely having that Tommen baby, is her safety card.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
In the books, Rickon is probably going to keep the Stark name alive. I can't imagine GRRM would set up an elaborate thing of him going to Skagos and Davos going after him if he was just going to be killed.
unless it being a shaggy dog story is true.
Tyrion being all "HEY GUYS REMEMBER WILDFIRE I'M JUST GONNA PUT THAT OUT THERE. IT'S ALL OVER KING'S LANDING. I JUST WANTED TO REMIND YOU."
is worse than the dog thing.
What they should have done is not mention it so when it comes out of nowhere everyone can complain about it being Deus Ex Machina.
demosthenes
Member
unless it being a shaggy dog story is true.
Which is?
John Dunbar
correct about everything
Unless Tommen dies too soon Margeary is absolutely having that Tommen baby, is her safety card.
Oh yeah Tommen's name is Baratheon huh.
lmao.
Are you seriously defending her not telling Jon?Jon wouldn't stick with the plan (or listen to Sansa's warnings) even when he knew it was their only chance for survival. Had Sansa told him about Littlefinger, would he have done anything smarter when he saw Rickon running towards him? Hell, Jon might have done something even dumber or tipped off Ramsay.
Let me put it that way.
Either she is the dumbest Stark that ever lived, asking her brother to wait and not giving him the very reason why he should, or she was actively evil withholding information that would have saved countless lives on her own side, while not putting her brother's life at play.
Either way, Rickon was fucked, yes.
But she had a choice, and I think she made the one that played into her power grab and into LF's plans as well.
Now that their leaders are dead, what remains of Umbers, Bolton and Starks should naturally swear oath to the Starks (in theory). Many Lords should also rejoin the Stark Banner after seeing Winterfell back under Stark banner. What of the Manderlys?
Now, if, somehow, they would manage to get the Brotherhood to join their regular army (isn't the Brotherhood a bunch of Rob's previous army?), and kick the Freys in the goodies freeing Riverrun and Edmure in the process, they would have then unified the North and have a somewhat ok ragtag army with the Vale as allies (as reliable as Sweet Robin and LF can be, which is why LF might have to marry Sansa to Robin).
In theory, camp Stark could soon have the following leaders/ MVPs:
- Sansa Stark
- Arya Stark
- Bran Stark
- Jon Snow (Stark if legitimized by whomever is head of House)
- Brienne of Tarth
- Ser Davos Seaworth (not sure he's going to stay, but where would he go?)
- Tormund
- Red priestess Melissande (unless she gets a sword in the face from Davos)
- Northen houses that will honor their oath, including lady Mormont
Tenuous allies:
- Peter Baelish and Robin Aryn, Prince of the Vale
- The Watch
Possible:
- Brotherhood without banner (with possibly the Hound)
- House Tully (Edmure) once fred from the Freys)
I'm kind of wondering if they kept Manderly out of the fray intentionally so that it will be a little more plausible in future seasons if the North needs to rally any sort of army again. They also mentioned this season that the Blackwoods and Mallisters are in open rebellion against the Freys, so there are more Riverlands houses to join the Northern alliance whenever the Freys so down. Things seem like they're splitting into a Northern block in the North, Riverlands, and Vale that's loyal to Jon/Sansa, and a Southern block that will be going for Dany, with Dorne joining her, and once the alliance with Tommen falls through, I could see what's left of the Tyrells going to Dany, too. Whether those two sides are going to fight each other or work together, who knows.
SoRuffShoNuff
Member
Character talks about something he/she did not hear? how is that not a plothole? Yes, it happened off-screen, but at this point there's waaay too many important plot points happening offscreen. They screwed up.
Are we at the point where if we don't see a conversation taking place it's a plot hole? Do we really need time spent on a scene where Davos or Tormund are walking with Sansa, they see the dogs, and they tell her Ramsay hasn't fed them in a week. It's not even an important plot point so much as its just a fitting end to Ramsay.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.