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[Jarmel]

House Stark words will be changed to We Know Nothing. Their flag will be changed into a wolf charging 1,000 arrows.

That's a new badass flag.

 

[AndyD]

They weren't just intimidation, they were range markers for the archers. Helps the ranks zero their shots. Closest X puts your bow at 15 degrees, farthest puts you at 45 degrees, etc.

It was immediately obvious when Rickon was running down the field.

 

[dabig2]

Even if Bran and Benjen can't have kids and Jon's father is a Targ, the Stark family name will carry on through Sansa and/or Arya. This wouldn't be the first time the Starks have had to rely on the matrilineal line in their 8000+ claimed years of existence.

 

[mantidor]

Are you seriously defending her not telling Jon?

Let me put it that way.
Either she is the dumbest Stark that ever lived, asking her brother to wait and not giving him the very reason why he should, or she was actively evil withholding information that would have saved countless lives on her own side, while not putting her brother's life at play.
Either way, Rickon was fucked, yes.
But she had a choice, and I think she made the one that played into her power grab and into LF's plans as well.

We have no indication she knew for sure The Vale was coming.

 

[John Dunbar]

Even if Bran and Benjen can't have kids and Jon's father is a Targ, the Stark family name will carry on through Sansa and/or Arya. This wouldn't be the first time the Starks have had to rely on the matrilineal line in their 8000+ claimed years of existence.

yeah, the hound probably won't mind taking sansa's or arya's last name, whichever of them the lucky girl is. if anything, becoming a wolf would be an upgrade for him.

 

[emag]

Are you seriously defending her not telling Jon?

Let me put it that way.
Either she is the dumbest Stark that ever lived, asking her brother to wait and not giving him the very reason why he should, or she was actively evil withholding information that would have saved countless lives on her own side, while not putting her brother's life at play.
Either way, Rickon was fucked, yes.
But she had a choice, and I think she made the one that played into her power grab and into LF's plans as well.

Had Jon known that LF was on his way, he still would have run in, so everyone would still have died.

Jon already had all the reasons in the world to wait. The army had dug trenches and fortified their position. Both Jon and Davos (at least) already knew very well that their only chance of victory was to hold their ground. Yet Jon ran in anyway, and his army followed him. Sansa knew better than to trust Jon with the information about reinforcements given how emotional and stupid Jon clearly was.

So in the best case scenario, telling Jon would have had no effect. However, in the worst case Jon (or someone else in his army) would spoil LF's surprise attack and leave Ramsay in a better position.

 

[Pkaz01]

So is littlefinger trying to counter varys by backing Jon?

 

[Anton Sugar]

Had Jon known that LF was on his way, he still would have run in, so everyone would still have died.

Jon already had all the reasons in the world to wait. The army had dug trenches and fortified their position. Both Jon and Davos (at least) already knew very well that their only chance of victory was to hold their ground. Yet Jon ran in anyway, and his army followed him. Sansa knew better than to trust Jon with the information about reinforcements given how emotional and stupid Jon clearly was.

So in the best case scenario, telling Jon would have had no effect. However, in the worst case Jon (or someone else in his army) would spoil LF's surprise attack and leave Ramsay in a better position.

Well, out of the two ways of looking at it, either Jon is a colossal idiot or Sansa is. Kinda sucks, character-wise, either way.

 

[grandjedi6]

Unless Tommen dies too soon Margeary is absolutely having that Tommen baby, is her safety card.

Pretty sure the line earlier this season about Margy not having sex with Tommen was to discount this possibility.

 

[Gigglepoo]

What they should have done is not mention it so when it comes out of nowhere everyone can complain about it being Deus Ex Machina.

They mentioned the wildfire many times already. Just like the Vale Knights coming to save the day last episode wasn't a Deus Ex Machina given that it was setup beforehand, the same would be true about the burning of King's Landing.

I do wonder why the show didn't have Cercei burn the Tower of the Hand, though. Would have been an excellent example of her deteriorating mind and hint at future plot ramifications.

Are we at the point where if we don't see a conversation taking place it's a plot hole? Do we really need time spent on a scene where Davos or Tormund are walking with Sansa, they see the dogs, and they tell her Ramsay hasn't fed them in a week. It's not even an important plot point so much as its just a fitting end to Ramsay.

I posted about this earlier. It's the randomness of how information is conveyed that's problematic. Like, why did the Mormont Maester not tell Lady Mormont that Sansa sent a raven? Because there's no logic to what gets discussed offscreen, it feels cheap when characters have information they shouldn't or lack knowledge that they should have.

 

[RandomSeed]

That's a new badass flag.

Kinda would be cool.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Someone made an interesting comment on Reddit

Spoiler

There is some expectation that Arya kills Walder Fray at RW 2.0

Jamie gets Arya there, possibly stops other Frays from killing her. Takes her to Winterfell or meets Brienne somewhere while he is with Arya

 

[Lothar]

Its a good thing that the show needed Jon to be dumb and fall for Ramsay's trap and he did that because if he didn't, Sansa really would have seemed like a complete piece of shit.

All her decision making this season is based around her thinking Jon is an idiot. Unfortunately for people that like Jon, turns out she was right.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Being uncontrollably emotionally affected by your brother getting murdered in front of you, even though you know that's totally the other guys plan does not = stupidity.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Being uncontrollably emotionally affected by your brother getting murdered in front of you, even though you know that's totally the other guys plan does not = stupidity.

If anything, Davos was the stupid one. He shouldn't have sent out the knights to rescue Jon. Everything worked out (seriously, the good guys had one death and it was unavoidable) but it was still really dumb.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Being uncontrollably emotionally affected by your brother getting murdered in front of you, even though you know that's totally the other guys plan does not = stupidity.

Continuing to charge *after* Rickon was dead, abandoning your battle strategy which also happens to be the last possible attempt to retake the North, your homeland, and end the reign of a psycho king = stupidity

EDIT: Again, Jon's reaction is more fitting of someone who has never really managed troops/a battle before.

 

[Lothar]

Being uncontrollably emotionally affected by your brother getting murdered in front of you, even though you know that's totally the other guys plan does not = stupidity.

If you're angry and want revenge against Ramsay, charging into a army by yourself is the about the worst way to achieve that goal. That's just the way to get thousands of your men killed.

 

[Hystzen]

Davos casually watching while his archers did nothing was more stupid he could have moved his line forward and shot at the army behind the early skirmish to avoid friendly fire.

Nope Davos rather just watch as army is pin cushioned. Actually did we see Davos do anything in the fight I don't remember seeing him swing his sword when they where circled

 

[wesleyshark]

EDIT: Again, Jon's reaction is more fitting of someone who has never really managed troops/a battle before.

Kit made mention of this in the BTS stuff. He said that Jon is not a good leader in battle. No experience, really.

 

[demosthenes]

Someone made an interesting comment on Reddit

Spoiler

There is some expectation that Arya kills Walder Fray at RW 2.0

Jamie gets Arya there, possibly stops other Frays from killing her. Takes her to Winterfell or meets Brienne somewhere while he is with Arya

Spoiler

What is his motivation? Does he get a letter from Lancel saying "I slept with Cersei a lot, I'm sorry, I'm going to kill myself" or something like that? He gets a letter from Cersei pleading him to come back and he just says screw it?

 

[Black_Sun]

Kit made mention of this in the BTS stuff. He said that Jon is not a good leader in battle. No experience, really.

And this is where Book Jon and Show Jon are different again.

 

[Lothar]

The dumbest thing of all is them not asking Melisandre to bring Wun Wun and the rest of the army back.

It sounds like I'm joking but I'm serious. Every time they've asked the LoL to bring someone back on the show, it has worked.

 

[dabig2]

Had Jon known that LF was on his way, he still would have run in, so everyone would still have died.

Jon already had all the reasons in the world to wait. The army had dug trenches and fortified their position. Both Jon and Davos (at least) already knew very well that their only chance of victory was to hold their ground. Yet Jon ran in anyway, and his army followed him. Sansa knew better than to trust Jon with the information about reinforcements given how emotional and stupid Jon clearly was.

So in the best case scenario, telling Jon would have had no effect. However, in the worst case Jon (or someone else in his army) would spoil LF's surprise attack and leave Ramsay in a better position.

I disagree. Under no way is keeping LF's army secret from the battle commanders a good or sensible tactic. There's a billion things that they could have changed with that information that would have saved innumerable lives regardless of Jon falling into Ramsay's trap.

Hell, if this wasn't a show, I would've said screw open warfare at that point and scrapped all of my battle plans and let Ramsay and his alliance hide out in Winterfell if they wanted. I would then tell the entire North that I have the full support of the Vale (a region that can raise 30K men) and that the balance of power has shifted. Negotiate with Lord Umber and make it very clear that he needs to get over a couple wildlings. Right now these wildlings are chilling at the wall and will be settled in The Gift, but the longer you hide out in Winterfell, then maybe I deposit them onto your native lands right away. Same deal for the Karstarks. Winterfell isn't your home and you guys don't even like Ramsay anyways. And a siege would go by pretty quick, especially since they have a giant. Strap a barn door to his arm to cover himself from the arrow volley, focus your own archers on the wall to give him cover, and let him have a go at the door.

 

[Brakke]

Davos casually watching while his archers did nothing was more stupid he could have moved his line forward and shot at the army behind the early skirmish to avoid friendly fire.

Nope Davos rather just watch as army is pin cushioned. Actually did we see Davos do anything in the fight I don't remember seeing him swing his sword when they where circled

The defenders had an elevation advantage, presumably better equipment, and had already marked their own maximum ranges on the field (which was pretty much where the melee was happening). Plus castle bows are probably better than wildling bows.

Davos's archers would have had to stand within or somehow beyond the melee in order to reach Ramsay.

 

[Black_Sun]

I wonder how much the female rulers angle is going to be a theme in the next season(s). We already have Dany and Yara teaming up, and Varys is presumably going to Dorne to ask Xena and her friends for help. That's three 'Queens' on her side, and Sansa ruling in the North. Then we have Margaery, who is a consort Queen but could become a ruler in her own right if Loras does die, as he is the only male heir to the Reach.

That would leave in male hands only the Vale, the Westerlands and the Riverlands, and Sansa has a legitimate claim to overlordship of the latter. I'm not sure who's the nominal leader of the Westerlands right now, but if we go by the books it's Cersei who succeeds her father. If Littlefinger does take over the Vale, and submits to (his wife?) Sansa, that would mean that every single realm in the Seven Kingdoms would be ruled by a woman.

Cersei owns the Westerlands

 

[Steelyuhas]

Cersei owns the Westerlands

Nah, Jaime does now that he's been given the boot from the Kingsguard.

In any case, Tommen/Kevan hold that power for now, although I think we can all agree neither is long for this world.

 

[Brakke]

I disagree. Under no way is keeping LF's army secret from the battle commanders a good or sensible tactic. There's a billion things that they could have changed with that information that would have saved innumerable lives regardless of Jon falling into Ramsay's trap.

Hell, if this wasn't a show, I would've said screw open warfare at that point and scrapped all of my battle plans and let Ramsay and his alliance hide out in Winterfell if they wanted. I would then tell the entire North that I have the full support of the Vale (a region that can raise 30K men) and that the balance of power has shifted. Negotiate with Lord Umber and make it very clear that he needs to get over a couple wildlings. Right now these wildlings are chilling at the wall and will be settled in The Gift, but the longer you hide out in Winterfell, then maybe I deposit them onto your native lands right away. Same deal for the Karstarks. Winterfell isn't your home and you guys don't even like Ramsay anyways. And a siege would go by pretty quick, especially since they have a giant. Strap a barn door to his arm to cover himself from the arrow volley, focus your own archers on the wall to give him cover, and let him have a go at the door.

This is assuming a lot about Littlefinger's willingness to cooperate. It's one thing to ask Littlefinger to make one glorious charge, it's another to have him around in an ongoing capacity. Who says he'll obey orders from Jon? Or even Sansa? Which orders will he obey? If you have him with you the whole time you're rallying the North, who's to say he isn't scheming on his own.

Sansa directly said to Littlefinger that she didn't trust him. It's one thing to make a Hail Mary desperation move based on someone you don't trust, it's another to incorporate him into a sustained campaign.

We'll know more about the LF-Sansa relationship standing after next ep, I suppose.

Also your plan pretty much requires that Jon stands by quietly while Ramsay tortures Rickon for months, which he's demonstrated a clear unwillingness to do.

 

[SargerusBR]

Too bad Coward Karstark lived and Lord Badass of Umber died

RIP Glorious Northern Beard

 

[dabig2]

This is assuming a lot about Littlefinger's willingness to cooperate. It's one thing to ask Littlefinger to make one glorious charge, it's another to have him around in an ongoing capacity. Who says he'll obey orders from Jon? Or even Sansa? Which orders will he obey? If you have him with you the whole time you're rallying the North, who's to say he isn't scheming on his own.

Sansa directly said to Littlefinger that she didn't trust him. It's one thing to make a Hail Mary desperation move based on someone you don't trust, it's another to incorporate him into a sustained campaign.

We'll know more about the LF-Sansa relationship standing after next ep, I suppose.

That's why you parlay with him before you engage in battle. Sansa gave Jon and Davos no opportunity to even negotiate with LF and see what his angle is. He ended up not being that far away so Jon and co. could have delayed the battle a little bit. And if she didn't trust LF, that's all the more reason to alert Jon and co. to the fact that there might be a hostile army literally not even a half day behind them right before a big battle.

 

[Anoregon]

Someone made an interesting comment on Reddit

Spoiler

There is some expectation that Arya kills Walder Fray at RW 2.0

Jamie gets Arya there, possibly stops other Frays from killing her. Takes her to Winterfell or meets Brienne somewhere while he is with Arya

That seems unlikely.

 

[samn]

What they should have done is not mention it so when it comes out of nowhere everyone can complain about it being Deus Ex Machina.

A skilled storyteller can straddle the line perfectly. The show's done it before.

 

[Lan Dong Mik]

That seems unlikely.

Yeah that's not happening lol

 

[Black_Sun]

Nah, Jaime does now that he's been given the boot from the Kingsguard.

In any case, Tommen/Kevan hold that power for now, although I think we can all agree neither is long for this world.

That's not how that works.

Tywin died and it transferred to Cersei.

Jaime can only get it back if Cersei relinquishes it to him.

Jaime can also challenge her for it but he won't.

 

[Speevy]

Who wants to make a bet that Wyman Manderly says "The mummer's farce is almost done."

and it cuts to The Twins.

 

[KodaRuss]

Too bad Coward Karstark lived and Lord Badass of Umber died

RIP Glorious Northern Beard

I really wanted to see John kill his ass but good to see Tormand bite his throat out. Do we know Karstark lived?

 

[Blue Ninja]

Who wants to make a bet that Wyman Manderly says "The mummer's farce is almost done."

and it cuts to The Twins.

Manderly men serving Frey some pie? I'm all for it.

 

[mantidor]

Who wants to make a bet that Wyman Manderly says "The mummer's farce is almost done."

and it cuts to The Twins.

You still own a random person

Spoiler

hopefully me

a Steam game since lady Mormont wasn't flayed.

 

[Steelyuhas]

That's not how that works.

Tywin died and it transferred to Cersei.

Jaime can only get it back if Cersei relinquishes it to him.

Jaime can also challenge her for it but he won't.

That may be technically the case, but whoever holds the power can make that decision. Kevan likely wants Jaime to rule the West, get married, and further the family line as his brother wanted.

 

[Speevy]

You still own a random person

Spoiler

hopefully me

a Steam game since lady Mormont wasn't flayed.

Oh shit I'm a man of my word.

No more flaying in the north.

All right guys. It's only fair.

Luckily modbot chooses randomly for me.

I'll go buy some steam dollars and do it later today.

 

[CassSept]

Spoilers
The Soundtrack pre-order is finally here! https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/game-thrones-season-6-music/id1126106075

Spoiler

'Hear me roar'

Yep, Cersei is totally burning King's Landing down

 

[Elandyll]

We have no indication she knew for sure The Vale was coming.

It ws still a bad idea not to tell him, as it would have made him wait 2 more days,. She had no reason to think he wouldn't show up either, he offered.

Had Jon known that LF was on his way, he still would have run in, so everyone would still have died.

Jon already had all the reasons in the world to wait. The army had dug trenches and fortified their position. Both Jon and Davos (at least) already knew very well that their only chance of victory was to hold their ground. Yet Jon ran in anyway, and his army followed him. Sansa knew better than to trust Jon with the information about reinforcements given how emotional and stupid Jon clearly was.

So in the best case scenario, telling Jon would have had no effect. However, in the worst case Jon (or someone else in his army) would spoil LF's surprise attack and leave Ramsay in a better position.

You have no basis to say that.
In fact, he literally said "why wait, we have asked everybody for help" and she stayed quiet.
What you take for sheer stupidity was taking a chance at saving his brother, because he values other's lives more than his own.
After that, being mid field, there was no other way but forward.
Jon was right in Line with Ned, sure, which people like you tend to interpret as stupidity: he was honorable and willing to risk his life for others in a desperate situation, instead of being calculating and a cold hearted Dick.
Otoh, Sansa is either stupid or evil.
Take your pick.

Personally, I'm team Jon.

 

[KodaRuss]

It ws still a bad idea not to tell him, as it would have made him wait 2 more days,. She had no reason to think he wouldn't show up either, he offered.


You have no basis to say that.
In fact, he literally said "why wait, we have asked everybody for help" and she stayed quiet.
What you take for sheer stupidity was taking a chance at saving his brother, because he values other's lives more than his own.
After that, being mid field, here was no other way but forward.
Jon was right in Line with Ned, sure, which people like you tend to interpret as stupidity: he was honorable and willing to risk his life for others in a desperate situation, instead of being calculating and a cold hearted Dick.
Otoh, Sansa is either stupid or evil.
Take your pick.

Personally, I'm team Jon.

I gotta think Jon went through with it because Ramsey was arrogant and wanted to beat him in the field. If Ramsey was smart he would have just stayed behind the walls of Winterfell. Jon knew he had a shot at beating them in the field, no way they could have survived a lengthy Siege.

 

[kswiston]

It's probably been discussed a million times but I am pretty sure Jaime is the one who will kill Cersei. That prophesy Cersei heard as a kid said she would be killed by the little brother. Cersei always took that to be Tyrion, but Jaime was born second iirc.

 

[duckroll]

Probably been discussed a million times but I am pretty sure Jaime is the one who will kill Cersei. Prophesy said she would be killed by the little brother, who Cersei always took to be Tyrion, but Jaime was born second iirc.

Could also be the Hound though. It doesn't specify which little brother! Doesn't have to be hers!

 

[Lautaro]

Too bad Coward Karstark lived and Lord Badass of Umber died

RIP Glorious Northern Beard

I was really hoping this guy would betray Ramsey. What a waste.

EDIT: the prophecy in the show only talks about the death of her children IIRC.

 

[Gigglepoo]

It's probably been discussed a million times but I am pretty sure Jaime is the one who will kill Cersei. That prophesy Cersei heard as a kid said she would be killed by the little brother. Cersei always took that to be Tyrion, but Jaime was born second iirc.

Totally agree except that part of the prophecy wasn't in the show. Sounds like a good idea in the books, though.

Could also be the Hound though. It doesn't specify which little brother! Doesn't have to be hers!

Hell, Bran could warg into The Mountain for all we know.

 

[kswiston]

Could also be the Hound though. It doesn't specify which little brother! Doesn't have to be hers!

True, but I think Jaime makes more sense from a story telling perspective.

Totally agree except that part of the prophecy wasn't in the show. Sounds like a good idea in the books, though.

There is a whole season to go back to that prophecy.

 

[duckroll]

Actually... now that I think about it... was that part of the prophecy even in the show? I seem to recall they deliberately cut the last part out. So that gives the showrunners an out if they want to set up Cersei's fate in their own way while the books could do something different.

 

[Pkaz01]

Someone made an interesting comment on Reddit

Spoiler

There is some expectation that Arya kills Walder Fray at RW 2.0

Jamie gets Arya there, possibly stops other Frays from killing her. Takes her to Winterfell or meets Brienne somewhere while he is with Arya

First line could happen, the second makes no sense at all for either character

 

[DrForester]

I was really hoping this guy would betray Ramsey. What a waste.

EDIT: the prophecy in the show only talks about the death of her children IIRC.

Yeah, there not being a Northern rebellion against the Boltons really sucked. Bad enough the North doesn't remember squat, but you'd think after Ramsay started loosing arrows into their own men, it would have turned a few people.