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[Latvian Hitman]

I have several confused friends and family members over it

I think they've successfully conveyed that Jon is a true Stark, and not Ned's bastard, but I don't think the average show watcher would understand that Jon is Rhaegar's son based on what the show has depicted thus far unless they're really good at connecting the dots.

 

[Joni]

That was an awesome packed finale, especially with the Starks kicking ass again. Good starting points for the next season. So wild speculation.

- I assume Cersei will want to move on the North, but she'll be surprised by the dragon invasion. The four women team-up easily defeats the Cersei army, with Tyrion giving the final push. The books will probably have Jaimie do it.
- Turmoil in the Riverlands sends Jaimie north again, but he is defeated by either Jon or Arya. He bows to them, leading eventually to the four Starks coming together. Bran reveals the truth, everyone realizes Jon is the true king.
- There is a breakdown between Olenna, Dorne and Dany. She burns at least Dorne and kills the Tarly dad and son which will lead to a position for Sam.
- Dany goes north to defeat Jon, but they quickly realize they need to work together. Theon gets a chance to shine, Tyrion has fun with Jon.
- The Night King attacks full strength, the army of Men have to combine forces. Jaimie dies, one of the dragons falls in battle (becoming Jon's ice dragon?) but the other important people live.
- Jon falls for Lyanna Mormont. Okay, probably not, Brann is more her age. Jon will be destined for Dany, we will forget they are family.

Is there a simple way to kill Littlefinger and retain control over the Veil?

She can marry Robin, the true heir.

 

[mantidor]

Sansa wanted Jon to rule so it seems weird she would be salty about Jon's popularity. This however actively fucks up Littlefinger's plans.

We have not seen any indication she wants to be queen, but she's salty no one is giving her the recognition she deserves.

 

[Jarmel]

I hope they up Jon's leadership and tactical abilities next season.

We have not seen any indication she wants to be queen, but she's salty no one is giving her the recognition she deserves.

She was smiling when they started shouting "King in the North", looked over at Littlefinger who was pissed and scowling in the corner, and then realized an unhappy Littlefinger is bad news and stopped smiling.

 

[crimzonflame]

I had someone assume that it was another Robert Baratheon bastard.

lol someone at work today thought that too

 

[Last Hearth]

I do think Jon becomes KITN in the books as a result of Robb's Will that is carried by Glover and Mormont (two of the houses that proclaim him in the show).

But the show did a poor job of it because they skipped the will part and had this happen illogically.

 

[Speevy]

If you remembered far enough back to understand that Robert Baratheon had bastards, you could have put the R+L=J scene together.

Lyanna's death bed scene was perfect.

Plus, Lyanna straight up said "You know what he'll do if he finds out."

She's talking about Robert.

Why would Robert do anything to the baby if it was his?

 

[Black_Sun]

What was confusing?

Jon Snow doesn't belong to a tavern wench, but rather Ned's sister.

The show makes this extremely clear.

Some people didn't even get that it was Jon

Or that Ned was talking to his sister

Or who the father of Jon would be

He'll some people forgot that was Ned in that scene

 

[duckroll]

It doesn't really make sense then that someone hadn't stumbled across these caches earlier. Twenty years is a long time for a populated city.

I assumed most of the Wildfire was stored in a separate facility.

They did. Tyrion certainly knew. That's how he was able to get supplies to defend Blackwater. I don't think the wildfire caches are a super duper secret so much as something that most people don't talk about and the common people usually have no access to the tunnel routes so it's not a huge concern. It didn't take much effort on Tyrion or Cersei's parts to independently confirm their existence.

Who's to say Robert didn't know for example? He probably did, as king, but chose not to do anything because moving them might make it even more obvious, and that's some very dangerous material to be moving around. If it's safely being stored, it's not a big issue. You have to be insane to use it the way Cersei did.

When the Lannister took over, it also meant that the men loyal to Robert were removed or killed. Those whose jobs were to know such things, like Varys, and maybe Littlefinger, would have little reason to immediately share such information with the new rulers without first watching the situation develop.

I hope they up Jon's leadership and tactical abilities next season.

I hope he gets his "Animal Companion" perk back.

 

[mantidor]

I hope they up Jon's leadership and tactical abilities next season.

She was smiling when they started shouting "King in the North", looked over at Littlefinger who was pissed and scowling in the corner, and then realized an unhappy Littlefinger is bad news and stopped smiling.

Yeah I took it the same way but an interview with Sophie Turner said she also was agitated about being ignored. And well Jon did gave her the credit, even if it was just privately, so at least there's that.

 

[Moff]

That doesn't make any sense because the show has only ever said Lyanna was kidnapped by Rhaegar.

Robert would not have had sex with Lyanna outside of marriage. He'd screw other women on the side, but not his betrothed.

That's how it was supposed to work, isn't it?

you don't need to defend anything, no one is saying the show implied anyone else than Rhaegar.
but many people still did not get it, it was not communicated obvious enough, or people forgot, because there is a year break between every season and people maybe eat dinner when the show is on or get something to drink or go to the toilet.

which is why the show can't be as subtle as the books and mostly wasn't if it wants to reach a mass audience the way it does now.

 

[phaonaut]

I forgot about this, can we talk about Pycelle smacking the shit out of the first kid that ran up.

 

[Dany]

Amazing episode! Beautiful cinematography, costume design .

 

[Speevy]

I do think Jon becomes KITN in the books as a result of Robb's Will that is carried by Glover and Mormont (two of the houses that proclaim him in the show).

But the show did a poor job of it because they skipped the will part and had this happen illogically.

Having mysterious documents appear magically out of thin air is bad writing for a television show or movie.

It was Robert Baratheon's will that Ned become protector of the realm. He actually wrote it and said it, but it didn't matter in the end.

Those north men, who are stupid and stubborn, believe in Jon Snow. He stood up to the men who slaughtered their kin and put himself on the line. These men understand that kind of fierce will. They might not be the brightest bunch, but I can totally see them getting behind Jon.

 

[Jarmel]

Yeah I took it the same way but an interview with Sophie Turner said she also was agitated about being ignored. And well Jon did gave her the credit, even if it was just privately, so at least there's that.

That directly contradicts the conversation she had earlier with Littlefinger. Littlefinger assumed they would really around her hence the line, "Who do you think they'll rally around?". By all accounts she seemed content in the episode.

 

[ffejeromdiks]

Then they and you should be declaring Littlefinger the King in the North because Jon didn't win his battle. He lost until LF bailed him out.

He didn't win the battle himself no, but thousands of men saw Jon Snow stand his ground against a calvary charge with no hope of survival, thousands of men saw Jon Snow break off from the main force to siege winterfell almost alone with only Wun Wun and Tormund, not to mention they've all probably heard rumors of Jon's ressurection, and finally they see Jon defeat Ramsay in a 1 on 1. Jon earned everyones respect on the battlefield, they saw that this dude is prepared to die ten times over to reclaim his home, I don't think Littlefinger has that kind of willpower at all.

 

[kswiston]

- Jon falls for Lyanna Mormont. Okay, probably not, Brann is more her age.

Lyanna Mormont is younger than Rickon. The actress looks like she is somewhere between 11 and 13.

 

[Speevy]

Some people didn't even get that it was Jon

Or that Ned was talking to his sister

Or who the father of Jon would be

He'll some people forgot that was Ned in that scene

Promise me Ned.

"Who is Ned?"


That's kind of...hard to believe.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

I hope they up Jon's leadership and tactical abilities next season.

She was smiling when they started shouting "King in the North", looked over at Littlefinger who was pissed and scowling in the corner, and then realized an unhappy Littlefinger is bad news and stopped smiling.

That's the way I see it. Even if disappointed nobody is recognizing her she told Jon herself she wanted him to rule and that he's as much of a stark to her than her other siblings. I think her plot line next season will revolve around dealing with little fingers ambition. She'll play his obsession with her to her advantage and might eventually kill him.

 

[Violet_0]

I hope they up Jon's leadership and tactical abilities next season.

maybe he'll hold a referendum. I think the show could do with being a bit more topical
okay I'm guessing there have been a ton of these jokes already

 

[Moff]

Lyanna Mormont is younger than Rickon. The actress looks like she is somewhere between 11 and 13.

her name is Bella Ramsey and she is 10

 

[The Elite]

Promise me Ned.

"Who is Ned?"


That's kind of...hard to believe.

I wouldn't be surprised at all. A lot of people watch this casually. They see the episodes and then they are done until next year. They love the show but I can imagine some stuff just passing right over their heads when it comes to details.

 

[Speevy]

her name is Bella Ramsey and she is 10

Her name is Queen Mormont and she is sublime.

 

[iShouldGoPro]

I feel like it's obvious that Jon is the son of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen.

The prince that was promised. His is the song of ice and fire.

House Stark being Ice.
House Targaryen being blood and fire.

That's why he was brought back by R'hllor.
Jon is meant to bring balance between the human realm and the white walkers.

After that has been accomplished, Jon can die. This means that Jon isn't gauranteed to live forever but only until Winter is over and the White Walkers destroyed/sealed away?

 

[bengraven]

With no more time left I hope Bran reaches WF by the second episode of the next season.

I wonder if Arya will come home or just wait until everyone she hates is dead.

Also I suspect Bran or Arya are going to die.

 

[Kusagari]

The big problem with the scene was the fact the show hasn't delved into Rhaegar at all and barely mentions him.

 

[Last Hearth]

Having mysterious documents appear magically out of thin air is bad writing for a television show or movie.

It was Robert Baratheon's will that Ned become protector of the realm. He actually wrote it and said it, but it didn't matter in the end.

Those north men, who are stupid and stubborn, believe in Jon Snow. He stood up to the men who slaughtered their kin and put himself on the line. These men understand that kind of fierce will. They might not be the brightest bunch, but I can totally see them getting behind Jon.

It doesn't show up out of thin air, it was seeded in book 3. The show writers skipped it because they didn't want to tip off the Red Wedding and we get its effect without it showing up, which makes no sense.
But succession laws makes no sense on this show any where, apparently just kill the previous guy in charge and you're in charge.
Arya should be the Lady of the Twins now.

 

[ryseing]

Their gold ran out 2 seasons ago, they are massively in debt to the Iron Bank, and the war with Robb Stark greatly depleted their army.

In short, Lannisters are fucked.

I think Euron/Cersei alliance might end up happening. Not a marriage though- Cersei ain't giving up the Iron Throne now that she finally got it.

 

[Speevy]

With no more time left I hope Bran reaches WF by the second episode of the next season.

I wonder if Arya will come home or just wait until everyone she hates is dead.

Also I suspect Bran or Arya are going to die.

Do sleds have fast travel?

Maybe there is a silt strider nearby.

 

[duckroll]

The big problem with the scene was the fact the show hasn't delved into Rhaegar at all and barely mentions him.

Maybe they've been waiting for Kit Harrington to grow manly enough so he can play Rhaegar in the flashbacks. Lol.

 

[Matsukaze]

Some people didn't even get that it was Jon

The transition between baby Jon opening his eyes and adult Jon staring at the gathered lords could not have been more obvious. I really don't know what more the show could have done, other than have a big neon sign above the baby's head that said "JON! JON! JON!"

 

[bengraven]

Holy shit I just realized next year is the War of Four Queens.

 

[Deadly]

I would think that the show made it clear that Jon was Lyanna's baby, and not Ned's.

Lyanna made Ned promise to look after it.

The Rhaegar bit is unnecessary at this point, as no character is actively talking about it.

Him not being a bastard is important but the key is that they confirmed he was Targaryen. I mean did everyone miss the recap at the beginning where they included the scene from S5 of Sansa and Littlefinger in the crypt discussing it? Pretty sure that was there to clue in the viewers.

 

[Arkanius]

Maybe they've been waiting for Kit Harrington to grow manly enough so he can play Rhaegar in the flashbacks. Lol.

Rhaegar wasn't that manly though. He was more of a scholar until he read a book somewhere and decided "Fuck, I need to git gud at swordfighting"

But that would be fun, to watch Jon Snow with a white wig portraying as Rhaegar

 

[Jarmel]

So why isn't Jon immune to fire?

Is he immune now that he's a zombie?

 

[Anton Sugar]

This wouldn't normally be noteworthy in a show that so frequently features fire/torchlight, but I like how immediately after the R+L=J scene, the shot of Jon mixes cold light with a smidge of fire:

things are now so stacked in favour of dany that i expect even her bullshit contrived fortune is about to get hit by a catastrophe. nothing will happen to her, of course, but her army should be fucked. perhaps euron (after marrying cersei, lol) shows up with the horn and sends the dragons against her fleet.

Perfect time for a Dragonhorn-wielding Euron to mix things up. Not much time to develop him as a villain though, I'm afraid.

Then again, Lyanna Mormont is a fantastic character and has probably had less than three minutes of total screentime.

 

[Latvian Hitman]

So why isn't Jon immune to fire?

Is he immune now that he's a zombie?

Targs aren't immune to fire. Just Dany. More specifically, just show Dany.

 

[CloudWolf]

Promise me Ned.

"Who is Ned?"


That's kind of...hard to believe.

I've met people like that, they exist.

 

[1871]

The big problem with the scene was the fact the show hasn't delved into Rhaegar at all and barely mentions him.

It's not a problem, it's by design. The show hasn't meant to reveal Rhaegar's role yet. People here put it together, but the show will spell it out later.

 

[duckroll]

Rhaegar wasn't that manly though. He was more of a scholar until he read a book somewhere and decided "Fuck, I need to git gud at swordfighting"

But that would be fun, to watch Jon Snow with a white wig portraying as Rhaegar

He was supposed to be very handsome, very regal, strong, smart, poetic, a good singer, etc. He was also naturally talented at whatever he put his mind to, so when he started practicing how to fight, he got good at it. Loved by the people, loved by all young maidens, he was a regular Gary Stu.

 

[Black_Sun]

Promise me Ned.

"Who is Ned?"


That's kind of...hard to believe.

This is completely accurate.

No not really actually. People don't remember Ned Stark's name a lot of the time.

They should've reminded people that this was Ned Stark they were watching

 

[Jarmel]

Targs aren't immune to fire. Just Dany. More specifically, just show Dany.

I thought Dany was immune in the books.

 

[iShouldGoPro]

So why isn't Jon immune to fire?

Is he immune now that he's a zombie?

Do we actually know that he's not immune to fire though?

 

[Dash_Riprock]

Maybe they've been waiting for Kit Harrington to grow manly enough so he can play Rhaegar in the flashbacks. Lol.

Dude's only 5'8", he'll never be manly enough.

 

[CloudWolf]

Do we actually know that he's not immune to fire though?

He burned his hand saving Mormont.

I thought Dany was immune in the books.

She survived fire once, when her dragons were born, but that was a high-magic situation. She actually got burned in Daznak's Pit when she tried to tame Drogon. Though she does seem to be more tolerant than others.

 

[Speevy]

It doesn't show up out of thin air, it was seeded in book 3. The show writers skipped it because they didn't want to tip off the Red Wedding and we get its effect without it showing up, which makes no sense.
But succession laws makes no sense on this show any where, apparently just kill the previous guy in charge and you're in charge.
Arya should be the Lady of the Twins now.

Again, what does "king of the north" mean?

It's an honorary title to the person who leads the independent kingdom of the north.

They're not rebelling against the crown.

They are united against the whitewalkers, and Jon is the right man for the job. Not Bran. Not Sansa. Certainly not Littlefinger. Jon.

Robb Stark once said "Bran can't be lord of Winterfell before me." He has no contact with Jon Snow after that scene, so why would he suddenly choose Jon in the line of succession. Show Robb is still holding out hope that Bran and Rickon made it out, as is Catelyn. That's my interpretation anyway.

This season, the northerners have been stubborn in their refusal to support Jon. They call him a bastard. They say he's a deserter. All the problems you are describing were addressed. Now, at this time after Jon led the attack against the Boltons, they finally pay him the honor of a title that just amounts to "leader", which is what he is.

 

[void666]

How are the non-book readers you know interpreting Jon's parentage? I have encountered a few confused people today.

It surprised me that they expected the audience to understand it without plain out saying it.
I thought they were doing something like star wars ep3.
"Ned, this is Jon. Raise him as your own child and don't tell anyone who he really is"

There were other scenes where they did the same. Lancel didn't scream "oh no, wild fire!"
They trusted the audience to remember what the green goo was.
And Tommen didn't cry "i can't live without her!" before jumping

 

[NoTacos]

With no more time left I hope Bran reaches WF by the second episode of the next season.

I wonder if Arya will come home or just wait until everyone she hates is dead.

Also I suspect Bran or Arya are going to die.

I honestly don't think Arya is going to stay in Westeros for long. The list of names is the only remaining piece of her identity as a Stark, and once it's finished, there's no going back to being a "normal" lady of Winterfell.

It's been talked about before, but she's basically becoming Lady Stoneheart at this point, and once the list is exhausted of targets, she'll probably fade to parts unknown.

Perhaps she'll even return to Bravos and the faceless men, meaning Jaqen saw how it would all play out and sooner or later, which is why he let her go.

 

[iShouldGoPro]

He burned his hand saving Mormont.

It wouldn't be surprising, he's not full Targaryen.
It would make sense if he could now, since R'hllor has probably given him the gift of flame

 

[TRios Zen]

When someone isn't present for a trial, you present the evidence of their guilt and sentence them.

I agree, but they didn't, they were like "Oh she's not here? Well run along Lancel, go get her". Because the last time they tried to get her to go somewhere, it worked out well.

Its not "I hate this show I hope it dies" egregious, but it is dumb.