From what *I've* gathered, it's usually people that have some nugget of truth (like an extra or something), but then they spin a tale where they expose the whole season based on hearsay. One of the leaks mentioned that Hodor would be in a flashback of young Ned sparring (true!), but it didn't go down like in the leak.
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 6
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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From what *I've* gathered, it's usually people that have some nugget of truth (like an extra or something), but then they spin a tale where they expose the whole season based on hearsay. One of the leaks mentioned that Hodor would be in a flashback of young Ned sparring (true!), but it didn't go down like in the leak.
Liquidsnake
Banned
Excellent episode IMHO.
This season has already been better than the whole of the last.
This season has already been better than the whole of the last.
Nah, Ramsay needed to sidestep out of nowhere for it to be the same.
Luckily we're almost at the point where I don't need to post in this thread anymore and can post with the non-book readers. Almost every story is past the books or getting close.
One thing I really wonder is how thorough is the story outline GRRM provided D&D. Does it give just the overall arching story, or does it go through every character POV / story and talks about how that goes.
Maybe one day when the show is over the story outline will get released. Books won't be finished, he'll die of natural causes before that last book pretty sure.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Haha, forgot about that.
bishopcruz
Member
I think it's not that at all. It just wasn't satisfying in the least. It doesn't feel thematically appropriate as say, Tyrion killing Tywin did. It comes off as another highly telegraphed shock. Roose was no where near enough of a dick to Ramsey, nor was Ramsey someone who could in any way be cheered for. It's also ANOTHER stabbing death of a ruler after the Dorne debacle. ROOSE was the likable character at Winterfell. How fucked is that?
Blue Ninja
Member
I suppose they started working towards it by bringing Melisandre into the Riverlands so she could see Beric's resurrection with her own eyes.
When did you get that tag? :lol
I don't know what "thematically appropriate" means. Ramsay killing his father, who has pretty much told him that he'll be pushed to the side if he gets a legitimate male heir, makes sense. By thematically appropriate, do you just mean seeing a good guy get a win over a bad guy?
Episode 3 Preview Spoilers?
Why would the Umbers support Ramsay? I really have no earthly idea. The only way it makes sense is if they use a fake Rickon as their "gift" to reintroduce the show version of the Great Northern Conspiracy that was sort of hinted at last season with the old woman, who was then flayed, because Ramsay is a fucking god in the show.
Napalm_Frank
Member
I know Dungeons and Dragons are considered hacks ect. but I feel like people are jumping the gun with Northern houses supporting Ramsay. I can see a conspiracy against him being a big part of the storyline now, Davos at Mormont's and all.
As for Karstarks the current lord might just be Ramsay's friend or he has been promised other benefits (houses joining ect.). To me it seemed that Ramsay wasn't too calculating and sure about his ''plan'' at all, he just paniced when he heard about the boy (and I'd imagine Roose would have indeed gotten rid of Ramsay soon enough).
As for Karstarks the current lord might just be Ramsay's friend or he has been promised other benefits (houses joining ect.). To me it seemed that Ramsay wasn't too calculating and sure about his ''plan'' at all, he just paniced when he heard about the boy (and I'd imagine Roose would have indeed gotten rid of Ramsay soon enough).
tiredheadcrab
Member
Things I liked about this episode:
-Jon Snow is back!!
-Flash back was great. Glad we got to see Lyanna Stark alive as she has been mentioned time and time again. Nice seeing the other Starks as well.
-Hordor got some nice character development
-Ramsey being himself and wondering where this will take the north.
-Sansa hearing about Arya being okay.
I still need to see how this Sparrow thing will play out. Right now I am not sure why Tommen (if thats how you spell it) wont just say fuck it and crack down on their behavior. I guess its hard when they are feeding people.
Things I want to see going forward this season:
-Jon Snow is back!!
-Flash back was great. Glad we got to see Lyanna Stark alive as she has been mentioned time and time again. Nice seeing the other Starks as well.
-Hordor got some nice character development
-Ramsey being himself and wondering where this will take the north.
-Sansa hearing about Arya being okay.
I still need to see how this Sparrow thing will play out. Right now I am not sure why Tommen (if thats how you spell it) wont just say fuck it and crack down on their behavior. I guess its hard when they are feeding people.
Things I want to see going forward this season:
-I want to see if Jon takes back the North somehow. I hope he kills Ramsey. Perhaps the north will unite with Jon and Sansa or atleast some houses will.
-More flashbacks back to the time when the Mad King was ruling and the events that led to Roberts Rebellion. Hopefully we will even get to see if Lyanna was really kidnapped or not.
-This is just a guess but I hope to see the White Walkers bring down the wall, perhaps the last episode so as to put the next 2 seasons on this war between them and Westeros.
Was that young Ned Stark at the end of next weeks preview?
-More flashbacks back to the time when the Mad King was ruling and the events that led to Roberts Rebellion. Hopefully we will even get to see if Lyanna was really kidnapped or not.
-This is just a guess but I hope to see the White Walkers bring down the wall, perhaps the last episode so as to put the next 2 seasons on this war between them and Westeros.
Was that young Ned Stark at the end of next weeks preview?
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
A while back. Someone asked for suggestions for a Game of Thrones related name for Xbox or something, and that was mine.
Moff
Member
I think it's really obvious now that we have entered non-book territory. many plotlines and dialogue feel super simple, like something originally written for TV, and I am not even talking about bad pussies or comicbook villain ramsey, but something like the dude that gets help from the wildlings and next episode it's presented as a surprise that the wildlings save them, it's just boring. and as soon as there is something that is from the books, like eurons lines, it stands out immediately.
I also really don't understand why they made it davos' idea to resurrect jon. it would have made so much more sense to make it melisandre's idea.
and why were thorne and his thugs so eager to get jon's body anway? why is robert strong walking kings landing crushing random fools who insult his queen? why is asha wonderhing who killed her father when it literally happened a few feet away from her? how will arya become a decent assassin without the 5 year gap? how did the roose not see it coming? why would tyrion walk up to 2 huge ass dragons in the first place? and then just free them? why gibe him the stupidity of quentyn?
I often feel the show is either too fast and with too few explanations or too slow with too little happening, but rarely quite right.
I also really don't understand why they made it davos' idea to resurrect jon. it would have made so much more sense to make it melisandre's idea.
and why were thorne and his thugs so eager to get jon's body anway? why is robert strong walking kings landing crushing random fools who insult his queen? why is asha wonderhing who killed her father when it literally happened a few feet away from her? how will arya become a decent assassin without the 5 year gap? how did the roose not see it coming? why would tyrion walk up to 2 huge ass dragons in the first place? and then just free them? why gibe him the stupidity of quentyn?
I often feel the show is either too fast and with too few explanations or too slow with too little happening, but rarely quite right.
Ramsay is less compelling as a villain and the scenes seemed more about having him do yet more horrible things, even if it defied logic. He's a Bolton bastard in a precarious position. Abusing Sansa, Killing Roose and feeding Freys to dogs shouldn't be winning him allies in the North.
I understand needing to radically move towards the endgame and remove pieces from the board.
However, how they went about it in Dorne last week, and Winterfell this week, is not how to do it. Randomly killing off Doran and now Roose (and Roose has been a major character since season 2) out of nowhere, with even the same death, betrayed and usurped by family, it's too much. It felt perfunctory, even tiresome.
By contrast, I thought Balon's death was done well, because it had a cool, atmospheric setting and intrigue because of it introducing Euron. Thumbs up on that, thumbs down on Roose's death.
However, how they went about it in Dorne last week, and Winterfell this week, is not how to do it. Randomly killing off Doran and now Roose (and Roose has been a major character since season 2) out of nowhere, with even the same death, betrayed and usurped by family, it's too much. It felt perfunctory, even tiresome.
By contrast, I thought Balon's death was done well, because it had a cool, atmospheric setting and intrigue because of it introducing Euron. Thumbs up on that, thumbs down on Roose's death.
Exactly. A poster last night said they had 8 months to write how Jon comes back. Actually, they've had at least five years plus whatever insight Martin gave them. But D&D seemingly never did long-term plotting. Which is crazy to me. So events come out of the blue (shocks!) and you get dumb detours like the ships burning.
Five years to think of how Jon comes back and they go with "everyone leaves the room and then he opens his eyes!"
It's way too early for the white walkers to bring down the wall, if that's even how that happens.
There's way too many pieces that need to be put in place before the white walkers enter the game. They will just keep raising the tension and suspense around them this season. It probably won't be a thing until end of S7 that they come to the main stage.
There's way too many pieces that need to be put in place before the white walkers enter the game. They will just keep raising the tension and suspense around them this season. It probably won't be a thing until end of S7 that they come to the main stage.
I think what they are moving towards, is that the Faith Militant is destroying the ingrained power of the upper class. They might have even swayed enough of the lower class of people in KL, that should they die, the lower class might rebel and overthrow the king.
Napalm_Frank
Member
Honestly the only problem I have with Ramsay this episode is the way he dealt with Walda and her boy. Without Roose nobody would really challenge his claim without challenging the whole Bolton house or really wanting to get flayed. He is officially Rooses heir and it's not like the baby is going to conspire against him anytime soon. If he wanted to get rid of them he could have done it later without making them dogfood and having the whole situtation look a tad bit suspicious.
I was kind of hoping that Melisandre fails in bringing him back giving everyone blue balls.
Then next episode they burn him with his sword and he walks out of the pyre with a flaming Valyrian sword.
I guess there is always the books.
In the end it was kind of what everyone has been expecting to happen so there was like zero impact on me when he came back.
I was just like, "eh ok".
Then next episode they burn him with his sword and he walks out of the pyre with a flaming Valyrian sword.
I guess there is always the books.
In the end it was kind of what everyone has been expecting to happen so there was like zero impact on me when he came back.
I was just like, "eh ok".
But how else will we know how eeeeeeevil Ramsay is?
The Freys with the backing of the Lannisters would have a pretty good claim to the North otherwise. edit: not a claim, but reason for Roose Jr to be heir. Roose mentions the Lannister army in ep 1. The Lannisters already have beef with Boltons.
After rushing through how and why the sparrows rose to prominence last season, they nailed how they stay in power last night. "We're poor and have no names but we fight for what we believe in" or whatever. Really great. It's impossible to fight an ideology (See: America's foreign affairs since 9/11) which makes for a fascinating villain.
I can't wait to see what happens.
Are Bernie and his followers overtly religious?
Sectorseven
Member
I didn't really like that Hodor backstory, it felt like shoehorned in fan service. I wouldn't have a problem with some unnamed, ambiguous fat kid who we could maybe infer is young Hodor as a wink to the audience. I don't know, he's a minor character in the grand scheme of things and it just felt like suddenly they're making him into something more substantial when that screen time could be better spent.
Ramsay killing Roose is almost as nonsensical as the Dorne coup. He's been wanting the approval of his father his whole life, and got it, but then he kills him because oops, another son. It would make more sense for Ramsay to try and kill Walda and her son before killing Roose.
But this is D&D's Game of Thrones now, where killing kings makes you the king, so why not do it?
But this is D&D's Game of Thrones now, where killing kings makes you the king, so why not do it?
LegendofJoe
Member
Jumping on the great Northern conspiracy discussion the Mormonts, Umbers, Manderlys, Glovers, and Reeds are all fiercely loyal to the Starks in the books. All they've been waiting for to depose the Boltons is a Stark to rally behind. Book 6 wasn't going to originally be named 'A Time for Wolves' for nothing.
I'm going to be very disappointed if the show skips this plotline entirely again.
I'm going to be very disappointed if the show skips this plotline entirely again.
Religion is not necessarily a prerequisite for zealotry.
There are theories regarding
Hodor's name (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Höðr). The fact that his name isn't actually Hodor, but says it anyway is significant. The Willis reveal is big.
Nah it was super telegraphed that Ramsay was walking on eggshells regarding a second son. The expectation would have been Roose being ready to take the dog back and shoot him before he went wild on the prospect of getting replaced. A Roose would have seen this coming, but instead we get Ramsey beating him to the punch because reasons.
I know it's really just a common attribute on internet, but the cynicism and whining in this thread is off the charts. Aren't you exhausted complaining or do you enjoy it?
I mean I'm exhausted just reading it, it must be unbearable for you.
EDIT - Actually to be fair, it's much better then last year and it probably is a vocal minority.
I mean I'm exhausted just reading it, it must be unbearable for you.
EDIT - Actually to be fair, it's much better then last year and it probably is a vocal minority.
Roose wasn't a king. Nor was Doran.
If I were a betting man I'd say that Ramsay will also kill Roose in the books...but with a lot more detail about the food in the room when it happens.
I kinda enjoy it, yeah.
Veritigo_X
Member
Who are you talking to?
Sure, Roose killing Ramsay instead would have made even more sense. But D&D are obviously huge Ramsay fanboys so that would never happen.
Napalm_Frank
Member
But if the Lannisters can root out Boltons then they can install any Frey (or Littlefinger or whoever) they want anyway. Roose was already in almost the same situation as Ramsay is now. Hell, if Ramsay had kept them alive it would give him an advantage in negotiating with Lannisters/Freys.
I didn't like it either but eh. It was heavily foreshadowed in the show.
Roose for me was way fucking scarier than Ramsey. Ramsey just screams cartoon villain to me.
elrechazado
Banned
Especially because book roose specifically states that he shouldn't have more kids because he knows Ramsay would kill them! Ramsay just needed to smother or poison his brother and he's fine. He is smart enough to know that roose's rep and power are keeping him in the game for now.
So dumb
I feel like Balon's death is actually kind of cheapened by being in such close proximity to two much more rushed deaths (and by the fact that no one ever directly mentioned Euron before this scene). Balon's death scene becomes kind of guilty by association with the other two. I wish they had spaced it out a bit to at least delay Roose or Balon to episode three. This was a rare episode where things felt like they were moving too quickly.
He's probably just talking about the general tenor of the thread. Honestly, the book reader thread has been virulent whining since season 2. I've pretty much gotten used to it. I will NEVER forget the "Only Cat" belly aching.
OK, mini-review time:
- I don't like Bloodraven. Lyanna and the kids were ok
- I suppose Davos is siding with Jon and Edd because he's trying to do the right thing. OK
- It was cute as hell when he was trying to cheer Mel up. She's still a hack, but today I felt for her
- I don't care about Arya, Cersei or Jaime right now. Jaime is being erratic again. Killing the HS? Seriously? Great idea Einstein.
- Tyrion with the dragons is meh
- Is it me or did Euron say basically all his famous phrases in one single sentence? It felt rushed, out of nowhere and I still don't understand what was Balon doing alive in the first place. I have no doubts the Kingsmoot will suck balls.
- Theon and Sansa were cute.
- Ramsay being edgy is old news. I liked Roose and I don't like Invincible Joffrey, so D&D continue on their path of not my likyness
Now, to the worst thing this season thus far (after Dorne of course), the big question. Because I didn't see no one question this (probably missed it, my apologies). In the show. Now. After everything... why do they want to revive Jon? I mean, by the show's logic, what is the intent here? Why revive Jon? Why not Stannis? Why not Shireen? Why not revive any of the soldiers lost? What are the leaps of logic that move Davos, Edd and such to ask Mel if she can revive someone? Why does Davos know this? Where does he get the idea? Why in the 7 name does he want to revive Jon? What do they try to accomplish? Do they think Jon alone can save them for the Others (he is just a man who lost the trust of the Watch)? Do they know he is the magical son of R+L? Has anyone mentioned Azor Ahai? WHY?
Pardon me for presuming to know better, but by the show's logic, wouldn't it have been better if Mel was trying to revive Stannis and suddenly and unexpectedly Jon wakes up? She could speak of the prophecy a little bit before, then throw the Tower of joy in the middle and BAM, big epic surprise. But nope, plot reasons. We know where the show is headed, we have no idea how to write coherent things so we rush there with no plan. The important part is the result, right? Who cares if stuff happens for no reason?
Sigh...
PS: Eagerly waiting for the Tower of Joy. Don't fuck up, please :/
- I don't like Bloodraven. Lyanna and the kids were ok
- I suppose Davos is siding with Jon and Edd because he's trying to do the right thing. OK
- It was cute as hell when he was trying to cheer Mel up. She's still a hack, but today I felt for her
- I don't care about Arya, Cersei or Jaime right now. Jaime is being erratic again. Killing the HS? Seriously? Great idea Einstein.
- Tyrion with the dragons is meh
- Is it me or did Euron say basically all his famous phrases in one single sentence? It felt rushed, out of nowhere and I still don't understand what was Balon doing alive in the first place. I have no doubts the Kingsmoot will suck balls.
- Theon and Sansa were cute.
- Ramsay being edgy is old news. I liked Roose and I don't like Invincible Joffrey, so D&D continue on their path of not my likyness
Now, to the worst thing this season thus far (after Dorne of course), the big question. Because I didn't see no one question this (probably missed it, my apologies). In the show. Now. After everything... why do they want to revive Jon? I mean, by the show's logic, what is the intent here? Why revive Jon? Why not Stannis? Why not Shireen? Why not revive any of the soldiers lost? What are the leaps of logic that move Davos, Edd and such to ask Mel if she can revive someone? Why does Davos know this? Where does he get the idea? Why in the 7 name does he want to revive Jon? What do they try to accomplish? Do they think Jon alone can save them for the Others (he is just a man who lost the trust of the Watch)? Do they know he is the magical son of R+L? Has anyone mentioned Azor Ahai? WHY?
Pardon me for presuming to know better, but by the show's logic, wouldn't it have been better if Mel was trying to revive Stannis and suddenly and unexpectedly Jon wakes up? She could speak of the prophecy a little bit before, then throw the Tower of joy in the middle and BAM, big epic surprise. But nope, plot reasons. We know where the show is headed, we have no idea how to write coherent things so we rush there with no plan. The important part is the result, right? Who cares if stuff happens for no reason?
Sigh...
PS: Eagerly waiting for the Tower of Joy. Don't fuck up, please :/
bodyofanamerican
Member
Exactly. And it's not like D+D started on this the day S01E01 premiered. They had to have spent what, at least the last 8 years on this project, and must be ready to wrap it up by now. I don't blame them at all.
The Northerners like other Northerners. Simply placing a Frey or Littlefinger there and saying "we the Warden now" doesn't work in the north.
Also, Ramsay is a mad dog https://youtu.be/-aviRWrUxHg?t=129 . His fate will come to him.
The maddog is more fun to watch implode on screen than the calculating handler I'd imagine. I think it's silly but I mean it is what it is, I'll enjoy comic book Ramsey getting his just desserts in the end despite how awkwardly handled it was.
I guess I'm pretty tired of Ramsey as portrayed on the show.
I mean, I get it, he's a sadistic dick; but I kind of got that 10 episodes ago. So the continuous beating the viewers over the head with "look how sadistic he is!" leaves me disinterested in anything to do with him. I found Roose as the "villain" in the North much more compelling.
The fact that he takes no losses of any kind in any meaningful way stalls any drama with him on the screen - he's obviously going to come out on top.
I guess Ramsey (and the Sand Snakes last episode) are bringing me down on another wise enjoyable first 2 episodes.
I mean, I get it, he's a sadistic dick; but I kind of got that 10 episodes ago. So the continuous beating the viewers over the head with "look how sadistic he is!" leaves me disinterested in anything to do with him. I found Roose as the "villain" in the North much more compelling.
The fact that he takes no losses of any kind in any meaningful way stalls any drama with him on the screen - he's obviously going to come out on top.
I guess Ramsey (and the Sand Snakes last episode) are bringing me down on another wise enjoyable first 2 episodes.
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