El Sabroso
Member
I like the idea
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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
- Start date
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I like the idea
speedlolita
Member
Those bastards!
I seem to recall later models not having that text. Always try and get one that has the text.
The project itself is a good idea but I'm not a fan of the false advertising. Especially in the retro RGB gaming scene where there's already tons of misinformation out there.
sixteen-bit
Member
i dunno what u mean my $40 scart -> hdmi adapter on my dynex blows any CRT out of the water
lol
Not to split hairs, but I interpret their use of 'HD' as bringing classic consoles in to the era of 'modern' televisions.("Bringing retro gaming into the high definition era")
Component seems to be largely associated with the early-era of EDTV/HDTV televisions (as opposed to the standard now being HDMI) and this is a product that takes advantage of its widespread adoption (years after the fact.)
I agree, if the cables work decently and are priced right, they could be a solid intermediate connection-option.
Emperor Bohe
Member
that would be fucking awesome, because the rgb to component converter doesn't work on my tvs
But that's exactly what it is, ie. a RGB cable with a built-in transcoder. If an external one didn't work on your TV, it's unlikely that this cable will.
But going component still doesn't fix the fact that most HDTVs do a poor job with handling 240p signals (if it even works at all, some HDTVs literally can't handle it, see Emperor Bohe's post). So I have to disagree about their statement of "Bringing retro gaming into the high definition era". It's going to look better than composite, yes, but still not fully suitable for HDTV.
Anyway I think I look like a jerk now so I will shut up. I think this project is a good thing, I just disagree with their sales pitch.
Looks like an admirable project. I would have gone this route had the price been right and had I not already invested heavily in RGB cables/monitor/XRGB-Mini.
It's still weird without the scanlines, but I don't see why they couldn't pull this off as long as they don't expect most people's component inputs to accept 240p. There'd have to be some kind of upscaling by their devices at some point in the signal for this to be viable for the majority of consumers who'd be in the market for them.
But they fully explain that they're converting the RGB signal and even disclose that the SNES cable won't work with an unmodded SNES Jr. Sounds legit.
Edit: Their site confirms 240p with no upscale. That makes them not very useful imo.
It's still weird without the scanlines, but I don't see why they couldn't pull this off as long as they don't expect most people's component inputs to accept 240p. There'd have to be some kind of upscaling by their devices at some point in the signal for this to be viable for the majority of consumers who'd be in the market for them.
But they fully explain that they're converting the RGB signal and even disclose that the SNES cable won't work with an unmodded SNES Jr. Sounds legit.
Edit: Their site confirms 240p with no upscale. That makes them not very useful imo.
IrishNinja
Member
yeah, thought this was known - ive been saying for a while now that i get VGA through my DC's modded SCART box. once we know others i'd be worth adding but right now, my man sixfourtyfive is literally making magic happen within that character limit, so to add that tidbit, something else would have to go!
theSlacker
Member
After, comfortably lounging in front of 46-50" plasmas for years... I'm now of the mind that there probably is no such thing as a screen that's too big.Even my PC is hooked up to one of them. I really would prefer 30"+ for a CRT, but geometry is unacceptable.
My mains are a 50" in my bedroom and a 60" in my living room. The distance I sit in front of my 24" computer monitor makes it have as much face space as either of those. Same with the my BVM, but without the widescreen sides. Now if you really just don't have the room for an independent setup for a crt I can understand not being able to deal with the size. Even with all my stuff I would like an XRGB unit, if not for the resolution switching problem, and will get one in a later generation if they can fix that. Just saying that 20" isn't as bad as it sounds when compared to modern big screens since people that use it will have a different orientation to it.
That's a good point; the scaling from 240p (or lack of) in most modern televisions seems to be the biggest problem. I was under the impression that this cable has a built-in scaler to something more manageable like 480p, but other commentators have concluded this is not the case... *le sigh*
I know bigger is usually better, but sometimes I prefer the look of old games more on smaller screens. With RGB, especially on Genesis, a lot of the dithering effects are ruined because the IQ is too clean. But on a small enough screen, it's sort of doesn't matter because it looks kind of amazing with enough pixel density+scanlines. You don't see big bloated gaps in the dithering effect because each is only a pixel large. So they look like small mini razer sharp checkerboards. It's very cool.
It's hard to explain unless you saw it in person on a 14" screen. But I'm surprisingly happy with a screen that size after not having ever owned a set that small in my entire life. It looks good on a desk.
But I agree it's kinda weak for couch gaming in this day and age where you'd want to sit back and see a larger image.
Mono model 1 cable ew.
theSlacker
Member
The one downside of RGB. Well other then the cost. No more dithering. I'm not willing to sit far enough back from the screen for the effect to be there from range either. It is just the tradeoff you make when going with RGB.
I thought I'd miss it way more than I do. But, I still feel the effects most of the time even if they're broken.
Some games simply look ugly this way though. Vectorman really suffers hard, and doesn't look right over RGB.
sixteen-bit
Member
With RGB you miss out on some intended effects like rainbow banding or whatever on the waterfalls in Sonic the Hedgehog as well
For me, RGB's clarity outweighs the limited drawbacks though. I could never go back to composhit.
For me, RGB's clarity outweighs the limited drawbacks though. I could never go back to composhit.
You think the rainbow banding was intentional? I suppose that makes sense. But even as a kid, 7 year old me was like, WTF is happening with the background? It didn't look great.
sixteen-bit
Member
I guess lol. I thought it was tryna be realistic.
theSlacker
Member
I have yet to see as big a change between the standard outputs on a system to rgb then with a Genesis. Everything just looks so much better.
sixteen-bit
Member
No, RGB has better color separation than component video.
You would need an RGB cable as well as an RGB to component video transcoder to plug your Genesis into the component input on your TV.
come brother, join the GAF RF defense force, you only felt ill because of how awesome it was and how unused to the greatness you were, don't be fulled by the rgb lies!
(on a random note nothing beats how bad a genny looks on composite or rf, or sounds for that matter.
Emperor Bohe
Member
welp, looks like they're not getting my money then
theSlacker
Member
It even somehow smells bad on rf and composite.
sixteen-bit
Member
"This game stinks"
Okay so I would need a specific sega genesis rgb/scart cable and then a converter to component which will work with any consoles rgb/scart cable. Do most older consoles have rgb cables and are they worth it to get?
I just checked out some genesis rgb vs composite and its pretty crazy how different some scenes look. Didn't know there was some much dithering in certain games due to composite masking it. This is really cool to learn about.
ehnox
Member
I think such a thing already is avaliable:
Source http://www.ambery.com/costorgrgbco.html
You can easily find one of these on ebay, but how it makes the magic to convert a composite signal to YUV or RGB is beyond my tech knowledge.
MightyHedgehog
Member
I don't think mine will help since analog televisions tend to vary in terms of settings affecting their picture quality based on age and length of use. There are SD 240p calibration screens and test materials available on the 'net to help you if you aren't into just eyeballing it...which is what I did until I get annoyed with whatever relatively minor image issues it has.
If you're looking to get the best picture from your SD consoles, like the Genesis, you need to look into modding them or just buying the appropriate cabling and a SCART RGB-to-component converter, like this one. For the Genesis, you need to know which model you have and then choose the right SCART cable to interface with the aforementioned converter.
I wonder if they're any good for that matter.I think such a thing already is avaliable:
Source http://www.ambery.com/costorgrgbco.html
You can easily find one of these on ebay, but how it makes the magic to convert a composite signal to YUV or RGB is beyond my tech knowledge.
That's the one I have linked.=O
Same for me, but I will look into it in the future.
MightyHedgehog
Member
I used your link much earlier in the thread to buy that one. It was one of many that appeared to be the same, but I trusted yours
and it was the cheapest
PumpkinSpice
Banned
You'll still want an XRGB mini. This thing won't do any scaling -- it'll be 240p over component -- so unless you're lucky and have an HDTV that supports 240p component you'll want a scaler.
Hm, wonder if theres any 240p games that run on Gamecube. Would be the only way I could test such a thing.
ehnox
Member
I used your link much earlier in the thread to buy that one. It was one of many that appeared to be the same, but I trusted yoursand it was the cheapest
The ambery brand is $80.00 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Composite-RCA-S-Video-to-RGB-Component-Video-Converter-/250431809472
Not much cheap indeed, perhaps I would use it on a NES, since is kinda pricey to mod a NES to output RGB
Thanks. Will the scart fix the color/rainbow banding I'm seeing on dark screens? With no video input it looks fine but when I'm playing a game and it starts with a black screen with some text I notice a sort of gradient pattern instead of a solid black image.
This makes me want to RGB mod my N64, nice pics BTW.My RGB output on my 64 is quite dark without correction, but things are looking up! (And RE2 really is a mess for resolution...)
MightyHedgehog
Member
It might, but you should see other sources on that display to see if it's a consistent issue across inputs.
How are you hooking it up now (composite video, RF, S-video, or component)?
What system and what model is it?
Those two answers will narrow down the possibilities and then there may be issues inherent with the revision of the console model or the specific cables used.
7DollarHagane
Banned
I think such a thing already is avaliable:
Source http://www.ambery.com/costorgrgbco.html
You can easily find one of these on ebay, but how it makes the magic to convert a composite signal to YUV or RGB is beyond my tech knowledge.
You are not converting composite to YUV or RGB, you are taking the RGB signal that the Console outputs through its multi-out and converting it to a component cable, with the conversion hardware built into the cable, instead of having to get an RGB Scart cable, a converter box, and a component cable.
I already have a converter box and scart cables for Genesis/SNES but if it ever dies on me i'll consider this.
Still cant do RGB on NES like my NESRGB toploader can! ha!
Kind of jumping in without having read much of the thread, so sorry if this question is asked a lot!
Do you guys think it's worth grabbing a Trinitron CRT for playing Dreamcast and Playstation 2 games? My main purpose for getting one was for my Saturn, but if it enhances the experience for other consoles, then that's more the reason to get one sooner.
Do you guys think it's worth grabbing a Trinitron CRT for playing Dreamcast and Playstation 2 games? My main purpose for getting one was for my Saturn, but if it enhances the experience for other consoles, then that's more the reason to get one sooner.
BONKERS
Member
If I can get 240p Native over these to my Phillips CRT, I will buy all of them.
I'm using composite cables for a sega genesis model 2, model #mk-1631. I tried another input and it produced the same banding.
ehnox
Member
Nice pics, did you enabled the texture smoothing feature before booting the game?
To get rid of the jaibars or the checkerboard thing, the best option is to get a scart with sync on luma cable:
http://www.videogameperfection.com/2014/07/04/playstation-cable-review/
These cables are only custom made, and if you get from retro console acessories you wont regret it, there is this guy who forges the cable, he is like the "Hattori Hanzo" of gaming cables.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Depends on what you are going to play or what you value in whatever display you're looking at. PS2 does progressive scan and widescreen in quite a few of the bigger later titles, so the CRT would have to be an EDTV or early HDTV for those titles with those optional display features (note: you will lose scanlines if you go with an HDTV). An SD CRT would be perfect for the Saturn, especially if you get a SCART cable and use a converter for a component input though I rocked an S-video cable during its lifespan and never felt the need for better. And it doesn't really have to be a Trinitron, since Sony kinda-sorta skated on their reputation for those curved tubes well past the 90s when higher end RCA/ProScan, JVC, Hitachi, and Zenith tube sets could be just as good for less. If you're going CRT at this point, however, you might at well prioritize a flat screen one, like the FD Trinitrons or highest end WEGAs or a Toshiba or other equivalent. I guess it depends on price of the set after you decide whether it's valuable to focus on progressive and widescreen. Personally, I think PS2 is more than fine across games for SD 4:3 CRTs.
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