Support NeoGAF

[Danny Dudekisser]

I've had this one for a few years now and has served me very well! Seems solid as quality (picture and build, with an arcade PSU inside). They pop up often on shmups and other forums and are not that badly priced.

Is there a certain video encoder that's particularly in vogue right now? The Mak Strike someone posted above looked interesting, and I like the idea of something prebuilt, if possible, but uh... I really don't know what to look for anymore.

I might have to do some shmups forum investigating later tonight.


Still, it's exciting. I'm finally in a position where I feel comfortable buying a Supergun and arcade PCBs. It sure as hell took me long enough.

 

[Yes Boss!]

Still, it's exciting. I'm finally in a position where I feel comfortable buying a Supergun and arcade PCBs. It sure as hell took me long enough.

Way cool! PCB collecting/playing can be very fun and rewarding. I don't have many but what I have I love. There is definitely something special about them. You will have fun! Prices don't seem to have gotten out of hand like the retro scene, either.

Incidentally, everything of mine is going into storage for a few years on monday (collection, cabs, everything) since I'm moving to Korea in a few weeks for a couple of years. I'm not really sure if I'm taking my supergun but I'm thinking I'll throw it in with the Korea shipment since I'm definitely heading to tokyo a few times a year. Might do a little PCB shopping.

 

[BONKERS]

Same here, also on a Panasonic plasma at 1080p. I can't really imagine 480p looking much better unless maybe it's on a native 480p studio CRT... but that's still a pipe dream for me until I find one at the right price.

Unless there's some heavy AA involved, i've never seen 480 3D content look decent on an LCD of any kind. Including several 1080p sets and the 768p set I have.

But I suppose that's subjective.
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/108473

I flat out refuse to play VGA Dreamcast on an LCD for this reason. I'll stick to a PC CRT.

 

[Peltz]

Unless there's some heavy AA involved, i've never seen 480 3D content look decent on an LCD of any kind. Including several 1080p sets and the 768p set I have.

But I suppose that's subjective.
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/108473

I flat out refuse to play VGA Dreamcast on an LCD for this reason. I'll stick to a PC CRT.

Some context? What's the link showing? 480p on a screen capture device?

 

[NyMartin90]

Hey gaf,

I'm definitely getting a bvm 20f1u, does anyone know how I connect scart to it? I don't see any scart input only BnC ports. Also where's the gaf recommended place to buy the best quality cables? Looking to hook up a genesis, ps1, and snes to the bvm.

Thanks!

 

[baphomet]

Hey gaf,

I'm definitely getting a bvm 20f1u, does anyone know how I connect scart to it? I don't see any scart input only BnC ports. Also where's the gaf recommended place to buy the best quality cables? Looking to hook up a genesis, ps1, and snes to the bvm.

Thanks!

You'll need a scart(female) to BNC cable. Retro console accessories on ebay is pretty much the best place to order from when she's around.

 

[missile]

Hey gaf,

I'm definitely getting a bvm 20f1u ...

Nice! You have one for me as well? 8)

 

[Madao]

reading the 480p with FM discussion on last page, i dunno but i think it looks good with the correct settings.

it at least beats using the Wii U HDMI output. i feel GC games from a Wii look better when passing through FM as long as you use a filter that makes the pixels even and have good cables. sure, you'll get some massive black bars but on a big screen it ain't too bad.

i do have an N64 and SNES so my FM does have justified use though since those 2 won't look good with a direct to TV connection.

 

[D.Lo]

reading the 480p with FM discussion on last page, i dunno but i think it looks good with the correct settings.

it at least beats using the Wii U HDMI output. i feel GC games from a Wii look better when passing through FM as long as you use a filter that makes the pixels even and have good cables. sure, you'll get some massive black bars but on a big screen it ain't too bad.

i do have an N64 and SNES so my FM does have justified use though since those 2 won't look good with a direct to TV connection.

Some quick and nasty iPhone 5 pics of my Dreamcast via Hanzo (VGA with fake scaliness) and Gamecube game running on Wii via component.

Gamecube looks even better running from an actual Gamecube (better colours), but I don't have room in my current set-up for it, and I use widescreen hacks in many games now.

Most of the visual issues (e.g. colours, banding and blurring) are simply camera problems.

You can obviously see the pixelly edges on the Gamecube, but it has excellent AA on many games (i.e. the top exclusives, not PS2 ports - Prince of Persia has not aged well) so they don't 'swim' like PS2 games do, edges are solid.

EDIT: Above was all direct to Panasonic 1080p Plasma.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Man, I'll never get over how damn good the Dreamcast looks through a Hanzo.

 

[BocoDragon]

reading the 480p with FM discussion on last page, i dunno but i think it looks good with the correct settings.

it at least beats using the Wii U HDMI output. i feel GC games from a Wii look better when passing through FM as long as you use a filter that makes the pixels even and have good cables. sure, you'll get some massive black bars but on a big screen it ain't too bad.

i do have an N64 and SNES so my FM does have justified use though since those 2 won't look good with a direct to TV connection.

In my experience, the Wii U's scaler is superior to the FM for Wii and GC content...

 

[NormalFish]

In my experience, the Wii U's scaler is superior to the FM for Wii and GC content...

Really? I thought I read on shmups that it was the opposite. Guess it's something for me to look in to.

Also: Anyone know when SolarisJapan gets their XRGB stock? Says mid January on the site, but I'm antsy.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

In my experience, the Wii U's scaler is superior to the FM for Wii and GC content...

Have you noticed the WiiU creating a lot of ringing artifacts and stuff like that when playing Wii games on it? I ran into that issue with the RE games, in particular. Kinda turned me off from using the WiiU for BC.

 

[BocoDragon]

Have you noticed the WiiU creating a lot of ringing artifacts and stuff like that when playing Wii games on it? I ran into that issue with the RE games, in particular. Kinda turned me off from using the WiiU for BC.

I have not yet, no, its all looked fine to me, so far.

The thing is that there shouldn't be any issue with performance (there is the equivalent of actual Wii/GC hardware in there) and the scaler is actually just a straight line doubler from 480p -> 960p (with a small black border to fill in the rest of the 1080p resolution). So I don't think there really should be artifacts introduced as the scaling is not particularly complicated.

But I am not an expert... Perhaps someone could tell me otherwise.

Are you sure that it wasn't an inherant issue with those RE games only revealed by a clearer picture?

Really? I thought I read on shmups that it was the opposite. Guess it's something for me to look in to.

Also: Anyone know when SolarisJapan gets their XRGB stock? Says mid January on the site, but I'm antsy.

I don't think anyone's ever argued that the Wii was a great console through the FM. Even on the official FAQ, I think they talk about how to get "acceptable" results and give you 2 different imperfect options to choose from. I've certainly never had it looking great through it.

And on the other hand... Wii on Wii U just looks very nice.

 

[BONKERS]

Some context? What's the link showing? 480p on a screen capture device?

That's showing a raw uncompressed 640x480 screenshot showing the best possible upscaling you will get from such low resolution material.

Unless you want to start using point filtering/nearest neighbor which looks like garbage IMO.


With the WiiU playing 480p games upscaled to 1080p, they only look good to me if i'm sitting like 10 feet away.


And again i'm talking 3D rendered games only. 2D games are fine. It's a personal preference that I have with that kind of stuff.

Ugh, I just wish 480p capable CRTs were more common that aren't HDCRTs

 

[NormalFish]

I don't think anyone's ever argued that the Wii was a great console through the FM. Even on the official FAQ, I think they talk about how to get "acceptable" results and give you 2 different imperfect options to choose from. I've certainly never had it looking great through it.

And on the other hand... Wii on Wii U just looks very nice.

No, we're definitely on the same page that Wii doesn't look great through FM. Just specifically Wii U vs FM (especially for NGC, but i thought for Wii, too) seems divisive.

 

[D.Lo]

I do most of my gaming on the Framemesiter, but goddamn if a bit of PVM isn't nice every now and then.

I think I'll run the PVM as my main machine in a little games room one day.

 

[Madao]

there might be differences related to the TVs we're using.

it looks good on my TV but maybe my TV is just bad and hides these defects.

i also have a bad camera so the pics i take don't look as good as the games in motion.

 

[John Caboose]

I want to play Xbox and PS2 (SCART / Yellow White Red cables) on a PC monitor (1080p LED with HDMI/DVI and VGA). What is the best alternative for doing so? Not looking to spend too much (<$200, preferable much less). Using some sort of low latency capture card would be nice perhaps.

I could buy a small TV for it except that in Sweden we have to pay 2300SEK a year (over $200) for public service if we have TVs in the household.

 

[Khaz]

I want to play Xbox and PS2 (SCART / Yellow White Red cables) on a PC monitor (1080p LED with HDMI/DVI and VGA). What is the best alternative for doing so? Not looking to spend too much (<$200, preferable much less). Using some sort of low latency capture card would be nice perhaps.

I could buy a small TV for it except that in Sweden we have to pay 2300SEK a year (over $200) for public service if we have TVs in the household.

Scart and yellow white red cables are different things. See this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAlrdCBjUAQ
You need RGB Scart cables and an upscaler box with HDMI out, like the Japanese stuff people here keep talking about.

You won't need a license if you buy a CRT TV, as they only have an analogue tuner and Sweden shut down analogue broadcast in 2007. You only need to pay something if you have an additional DVB-T decoder.

 

[Peltz]

Have you noticed the WiiU creating a lot of ringing artifacts and stuff like that when playing Wii games on it? I ran into that issue with the RE games, in particular. Kinda turned me off from using the WiiU for BC.

You could always set output to 480p on Wii U and let your HDTV scale it. The HDMI output will still be cleaner than the OG Wii's component output... (I think).

 

[antibolo]

You'll need a scart(female) to BNC cable. Retro console accessories on ebay is pretty much the best place to order from when she's around.

Last time I checked she didn't make scart to bnc cables. Did she start doing them?

 

[Voliko]

I've neglected my Saturn for too long. Anyone want to tell me the difference between these two Saturn RGB cables? I think one uses composite sync and the other composite video to sync the image but I never understood what those terms meant. I'll be using my PVM through a BNC adapter and maybe my Framemeister once in a while.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sega-Saturn-stereo-RGB-SCART-cable-for-NTSC-model-Saturn-lead-cord-/161465057911?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2598114277
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sega-Saturn-stereo-csync-RGB-SCART-cable-for-NTSC-model-Saturn-lead-cord-/201207324250?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ed8e41e5a

 

[Mercutio]

Last time I checked she didn't make scart to bnc cables. Did she start doing them?

I think you can request one. I've requested cables she didn't make in the past, and got them as quickly as non-customs.

 

[John Caboose]

Scart and yellow white red cables are different things. See this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAlrdCBjUAQ
You need RGB Scart cables and an upscaler box with HDMI out, like the Japanese stuff people here keep talking about.

You won't need a license if you buy a CRT TV, as they only have an analogue tuner and Sweden shut down analogue broadcast in 2007. You only need to pay something if you have an additional DVB-T decoder.

Thank you very much for the enlightening response. <3

 

[antibolo]

I've neglected my Saturn for too long. Anyone want to tell me the difference between these two Saturn RGB cables? I think one uses composite sync and the other composite video to sync the image but I never understood what those terms meant. I'll be using my PVM through a BNC adapter and maybe my Framemeister once in a while.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sega-Saturn-stereo-RGB-SCART-cable-for-NTSC-model-Saturn-lead-cord-/161465057911?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2598114277
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sega-Saturn-stereo-csync-RGB-SCART-cable-for-NTSC-model-Saturn-lead-cord-/201207324250?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ed8e41e5a

The "csync" uses the composite video signal for sync, the other uses the raw sync signal (which only exists on NTSC Saturns).

Unless you have a PAL Saturn you should probably pick the raw sync version.

 

[KC-Slater]

I think you can request one. I've requested cables she didn't make in the past, and got them as quickly as non-customs.

Sorry, not to hijack this discussion, but I am curious about using one of the SCART to BNC adapters as well with my plasma.

I have a professional Panasonic plasma display, and I don't see a specific input on the back for the fourth (sync?) prong of the 4-lead BNC cable. Would this go in to composite?

If so, what exactly would I need? Can anyone walk me through this? lol

 

[NormalFish]

Sorry, not to hijack this discussion, but I am curious about using one of the SCART to BNC adapters as well with my plasma.

I have a professional Panasonic plasma display, and I don't see a specific input on the back for the fourth (sync?) prong of the 4-lead BNC cable. Would this go in to composite?

If so, what exactly would I need? Can anyone walk me through this? lol

You probably have component cable inputs in the back if it's 3 (plus audio). I don't think BNC has ever been standard on consumer-grade electronics. Especially not a plasma screen, but I'm not sure of that.
**
Oh wait you said it was pro-grade. I have no clue.

 

[antibolo]

A professional plasma display? That sounds pretty badass.

 

[KC-Slater]

You probably have component cable inputs in the back if it's 3 (plus audio). I don't think BNC has ever been standard on consumer-grade electronics. Especially not a plasma screen, but I'm not sure of that.

It's BNC. It's not a consumer-grade display. It's a professional Panasonic plasma display. I am unclear on where the sync cable would go (I suspect maybe composite), and which SCART sync-type to use (I have an NTSC Saturn and live in Canada.)

I'd prefer to have this cleared up before blindly ordering stuff.

 

[NormalFish]

It's BNC. It's not a consumer-grade display. It's a professional Panasonic plasma display. I am unclear on where the sync cable would go (I suspect maybe composite), and which SCART sync-type to use (I have an NTSC Saturn and live in Canada.)

I'd prefer to have this cleared up before blindly ordering stuff.

yeah, I edited once i saw antibolo's comment. Read over that. I didn't even know that existed, so I'm definitely no help at all.

 

[KC-Slater]

A professional plasma display? That sounds pretty badass.

It's really nice, and I bought it NIB from Craigslist for $250. It's only 720p and lacks a tuner, but it has a crazy array of input options and the picture is fantastic.

I was certain it was going to be a scam or was stolen when I went to bought it, but I've had it since September, and I haven't had any issues with it.

The panel says it was Manufactured in Feb 2013, and the guy who sold it to me said he owns a business making 'machines for casinos', and this was left over stock that he just wanted to get rid of. He said he switch over to OLED displays, and this was the last plasma unit. Probably the best Craigslist transaction I've ever had. He even drove like and hour to get it to me.

The only problem was that I was buying it sort of blindly, as it was near impossible finding any info on it, because it is a professional model. I even checked out other threads on GAF, and they were futile.

 

[Voliko]

The "csync" uses the composite video signal for sync, the other uses the raw sync signal (which only exists on NTSC Saturns).

Unless you have a PAL Saturn you should probably pick the raw sync version.

Thanks much, can't wait. I'm pretty sure I only have RF for my Saturn lol.

 

[antibolo]

Found the manual:

http://panasonic.net/prodisplays/download/pdf/instructions/PH30U_English.pdf

Looking at page 10, it unfortunately looks like it doesn't support external sync, only sync on green That's fine for component sources, but for traditional RGBS it means you need some kind of external way to merge the sync into the green channel.

And with all that said, there's still the possibility that it may not support 240p signals.

 

[KC-Slater]

Found the manual:

http://panasonic.net/prodisplays/download/pdf/instructions/PH30U_English.pdf

Looking at page 10, it unfortunately looks like it doesn't support external sync, only sync on green That's fine for component sources, but for traditional RGBS it means you need some kind of external way to merge the sync into the green channel.

Awesome, thanks!

Okay, so what does that mean? Lol Will it only work with a three-prong (plus L & R audio) BNC cable (sync is on G)?

 

[antibolo]

Awesome, thanks!

Okay, so what does that mean? Lol Will it only work with a three-prong (plus L & R audio) BNC cable (sync is on G)?

In theory yes, but no classic console actually supports RGB with sync on green. You'll need to convert the signal somehow.

 

[KC-Slater]

In theory yes, but no classic console actually supports RGB with sync on green. You'll need to convert the signal somehow.

That sucks.

What is 'Sync on Y'?

 

[antibolo]

That sucks.

What is 'Sync on Y'?

They're referring to the green channel on component being Y (luminance). That's where the sync signal is extracted from in component video.

 

[Nostalgic Nightmare]

The "csync" uses the composite video signal for sync, the other uses the raw sync signal (which only exists on NTSC Saturns).

Unless you have a PAL Saturn you should probably pick the raw sync version.

The Csync version should put out composite sync on pin 1
The non Csync version should put out composite video on pin 8

I think either the JP or US will put out sync on pin 1 but its voltage on the PAL.

 

[KC-Slater]

They're referring to the green channel on component being Y (luminance). That's where the sync signal is extracted from in component video.

Do you think something like this would work:

Saturn -> SCART output (not sure which one) -> this

 

[baphomet]

Last time I checked she didn't make scart to bnc cables. Did she start doing them?

I could have sworn that's where it came from. I have a few and most of them came from a guy that goes by broken on a few forums. The other I could have sworn was from her.

Either way as long as its not retro gaming cables you should be fine.

 

[Nostalgic Nightmare]

This guy makes them, but is out of stock atm
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Female-RGB-...y-PVM-Sega-Genesis-SNES-Neo-Geo-/191410555166

 

[NyMartin90]

hey gaf so the local seller I'm getting the bvm 20f1u claims it was manufactured in February 2005. Is there anything I should be on the lookout in terms of manufacture dates?

Also can someone recommend me a good set of speakers to hook up with it?

 

[Khaz]

I could have sworn that's where it came from. I have a few and most of them came from a guy that goes by broken on a few forums. The other I could have sworn was from her.

Either way as long as its not retro gaming cables you should be fine.

For Scart to BNC cables I don't think the maker matters. The problem we're having with cheap Scart cables is that wires arent properly shielded, the video data can bleed into the audio channels resulting in unpleasant buzzing. With Scart to BNC, you will get four to six (most likely shielded) BNC cables coming out of a female Scart. The BNC shielding combined with the physical separation and likely shortness of the cables should prevent any sort of buzzing or video artifact without even trying. Then again, massively cheap cables could always have problems.

 

[Chaotic-Strike]

Well, my SNES checklist is almost complete got a CRT and loving it.

Yoshi Island is on its way, and I picked up SMW in a pawn shop. Now all I need is an S-Video cable but jeez 80 dollars for the actual good one is a bit ridiculous.

I'll just stick with component now and scan eBay until I find a deal.

 

[Timu]

Now all I need is an S-Video cable but jeez 80 dollars for the actual good one is a bit ridiculous.

You might want to check this out.

 

[Later Alligator]

pvms and bvms are damn near extinct in my city from what i can find (toronto). i've seen a few 8 - 9 inch one, but never any 20" ones. and the sellers are always asking an arm and a leg

i recently picked up a little 20 inch sony trinitron for my room to make due with and it looks great

 

[Chaotic-Strike]

You might want to check this out.

Thanks for the link.

Went ahead and bought one.

 

[meanspartan]

Here to ask the question I ask every so often:

Any Framemeister equivalent for a price that isnt stupid?

 

[Speedwagon]

What's the best way to get my N64 outputting RGB?