NormalFish
Banned
Yeah, that looks way better. It's actually more similar than I expected. The speed changes accounted for, the homebrew definitely seems like the way to go.
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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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Yeah, that looks way better. It's actually more similar than I expected. The speed changes accounted for, the homebrew definitely seems like the way to go.
Yeah if I had compared Gameboy Player WITHOUT 240p forced, GBI would have absolutely destroyed it in terms of image quality. But I figure if someone is considering the homebrew, then they can probably use Swiss to force 240p on the regular old Gameboy Player.
Also worth noting is my XRGB settings I didnt really mess with. Im sure someone out there can come up with some superior settings. (Im still very new to the XRGB mini!)
NormalFish
Banned
Yeah, I figure it's not worth comparing the vanilla GBP since anyone who can use the homebrew launcher can use swiss anyway, and there's no advantage to not using one of them.
If you have the means to record high quality 60 fps video of it running I'd be interested in a video comparison, but I'm not sure if you have the hardware or a means to upload it. Not sure it'd be worth bothering with if it's not 60fps at least.
Yes to both, though I'm not sure where to find the ISO I've seen people mention finding it in a couple places iirc
It does default to 240p apparently, but not with Component cables? Kind of odd, but its what I gathered from the thread over at GC-Forever. Not sure why that is. Also I couldnt get swiss to work with it, loading via SDGecko. THis seems to be a known thing.
Also yes people have made ISO versions.
Could try the Elgato at 720p 60fps in a bit. Bapho has a similar setup I think when he does youtube videos.
Same. Are people who are saying it's difficult trying to blob solder it directly onto the board?
baphomet
Member
Probably. It's easy with wires, but it you have a fine enough tip its easy to solder it directly to the pads.
So Ultra low latency version is really intended for BVMs PVMs I take it, and low latency version is for displays that the Ultra low latency version doesnt work for. (Neither versions worked on my display through XRGB for what its worth.)
The regular version has more features and is probably fine for most people. Myself included.
I actually do have component cables as well *BUT* I'm using SCART for GBI. It defaults to 240p when using RGB, I've found.
Also, the ultra low latency and low latency versions work perfectly (and slightly better than the regular version) over RGB. Using the normal version I get slight blurring on scrolling but the image is sharper in motion using UL and ULL. Most importantly, the input lag is almost completely eliminated. It feels super responsive using ULL. I was pretty stunned.
Ok interesting, might be worth picking up Gamecube SCART just to try out the low latency version then!
EDIT: Is the official SCART cable the only one worth a damn? They are kind of expensive, and theres lots of cheaper ones.
1) Yes. Every other SCART cable I've tested produces an awful picture on GC. You end up with lots of dithering and artefacts. The official cable cleans that up. It should be possible to duplicate but I've yet to find a third party cable that was able to do so.
2) Just in case, I should mention that it only works with PAL GC systems.
I did the 'short wire' method and it came out ok, but I thought it was very close work. I mean the XenoGC's footprint isn't even half the size of a postage stamp, all the work is done within about 1/3 of that area and there are 6 points to solder IIRC, and the potential for shorts is high. Well, being over 45 with worn out eyes doesn't help either (if you're under 40 look up "presbyopia." You might as well know what it is, it's gonna happen to you, too.)
If you're not familiar with the short wire method, see here .
Ok that explains why your screens using the official disk look so good. The GBI image quality is still edging it, but I was confused at first cuz running the Gameboy Player 'stock' it looks horrendously worse than that.
Also if you haven't tried the Low Latency version, do. Yeah, it's a fixed window, but it's a nice step up on clarity beyond the standard GBI software. And I can see that using S-video into a CRT.
Edit: just saw above where the LL version didn't work for you? That's odd - it's awesome for me with my dinosaur s-vid to regular CRT connection. ULL was a no-go though.
baphomet
Member
I'm not able to get the GBI to run at 240p with component cables for some reason. There doesn't seem to be any sort of options using the ISO. Not only that, but I can't change any of the options using Swiss either.
Are you sure you're getting 240p with the component cables using GBI?
*Edit, I see that you're running GBI in roughly 480p. Well that really blows that you can't use GBI with component cables and get 240p.
Are you sure you're getting 240p with the component cables using GBI?
*Edit, I see that you're running GBI in roughly 480p. Well that really blows that you can't use GBI with component cables and get 240p.
Yes unfortunately this seems to be the case according to the developer. Not sure how swiss manages it, but GBI does not.
Im not sure what to think of the explanation, surely it can be forced to output no matter what the EDTV spec wants? (Going to be upscaled with an upscaler anyway.) Weird.
baphomet
Member
Yes unfortunately this seems to be the case according to the developer. Not sure how swiss manages it, but GBI does not.
And apparently you can only run the 16x9 version through a BBA?
baphomet
Member
Also, how are you even getting this to output progressive? I literally can't get it to boot to anything other than 480i even when attempting to force it via swiss.
I used this guy's program here to patch the DOL to include some arguments that the OP listed. His post is pretty self explanatory for the most part, just grab the devkitpro installer thingy he mentioned and install that. --nointerlaced is the command that forced 480p for me.
Stuff to change is highlighted. Note his program comments. Kind of a bummer that we cant get 240p out of component currently, Im hoping that will change.
And hey, more experimenting. The ULL version of Gameboy Interface sent to my Gamecube via PSOLoader but I only get audio and no video from my XRGB mini. I suspect this is a sync issue but I cant change my sync level?
Anyone know why?
EDIT: Nvm, I dont think the gamecube is outputting video at all through the digital port when using the ULL version of GBI. Damn shame.
Anyone know why?
EDIT: Nvm, I dont think the gamecube is outputting video at all through the digital port when using the ULL version of GBI. Damn shame.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
How much did it cost you?
Ivan Amiibo
Banned
that is nice. I have an open one with glass shelves and there's just cords fucking everywhere. the problem is I'm constantly switching consoles in and out.
BONKERS
Member
I'm pretty sure GBI is supposed to be able to output 240p over component
Read through this thread
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=46769&start=240
Read through this thread
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=46769&start=240
geniusbits
Member
The top looks brighter, the bottom maybe more detail? Reminds me of what I'm going through with comparing composite to S-video for N64.
A good thing to look at is the leaf shading on the bottom left side. You can see how much detail is muddied by the Gameboy Player.
Which posts suggest that? I can't really find any.
shanafan
Member
So, I have a question, and I hope I don't get people carrying pitchforks towards my way!
I have watched a few videos about the Framemeister, as well as videos showing consoles outputting RGB like the NES. I have a Retron5, but not a Framemeister. The image quality is pretty good with the Retron5. Better than a NES running composite.
Has anyone seen comparisons between the Retron5 and the Framemeister outputting in RGB? Does the Retron5 hold up pretty well in such a comparison?
I have watched a few videos about the Framemeister, as well as videos showing consoles outputting RGB like the NES. I have a Retron5, but not a Framemeister. The image quality is pretty good with the Retron5. Better than a NES running composite.
Has anyone seen comparisons between the Retron5 and the Framemeister outputting in RGB? Does the Retron5 hold up pretty well in such a comparison?
Retron 5 can't do RGB.
shanafan
Member
I understand, but considering what it can do versus RGB. How close is it?
speedlolita
Member
Um, isn't the HDMI out of the Retron5 RGB? Not 15kHz sure, but still RGB.
I would like to know as well.=p
Retron 5 doesn't have analog support, just digital through HDMI, from what I read.
NormalFish
Banned
If the Retron can't get an image better than the framemeister, that's embarrassing as fuck, seeing as it's an emulation box. I cannot understand why anyone would buy one, though, given a laptop (let alone desktop PC) can do everything it does better and without stealing code.
Randomizer
Member
You are correct HDMI is RGB as are Component, DVI and VGA. Yeah he is referring to 15Khz, 240p RGB. From the reviews I've read the Framemeister is leagues better than the Retron5. The Retron5 is only good if you want one console to play your older games due to clutter.
Example of how Framemeister looks(must watch in 720p)- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNeKlWoLy6Y
speedlolita
Member
You have to consider cost, though. It isn't a surprise that the Retron5 is inferior, it is aiming at a certain demographic that aren't so heavily invested in their retro gaming.
GBI is such an interesting improvement to GBP usability that i'm going to build my own SD Gecko converter to use SD Cards on GC in a few days (need to get parts and help to do it). might even record videos of the process for documentation since it seems to be a rather simple job.
btw, if i get the SD Gecko adapter made, all i need is to download homebrew stuff and put it in the SD Card to make GBI work, right?
btw, if i get the SD Gecko adapter made, all i need is to download homebrew stuff and put it in the SD Card to make GBI work, right?
NormalFish
Banned
So how much is one of those Datel Gecko devices? The prices I see seem much lower than I would expect.
You need something to boot homebrew first. I use the broadband adapter with PSOLoad, but there are other ways to do it. Stuff like SD Media Launcher works too.
Also, SD Gecko is pretty simple. Heres mine I made a couple weeks ago! Just used a Micro SD card adapter, so this is pretty much a micro sd adapter. You can seek out a regular SD card slot thing, with the push click but I have so many of these adapters around I sacrificed one.
On the GBI front. Its just not possible to use the low latency versions with XRGB mini. It wont recognize the weird refresh rate. And no 240p out of Component either. Fuckin bummer!! You need a PVM / CRT for the low latency version it seems.
You need something to boot homebrew first. I use the broadband adapter with PSOLoad, but there are other ways to do it. Stuff like SD Media Launcher works too.
Also, SD Gecko is pretty simple. Heres mine I made a couple weeks ago! Just used a Micro SD card adapter, so this is pretty much a micro sd adapter. You can seek out a regular SD card slot thing, with the push click but I have so many of these adapters around I sacrificed one.
On the GBI front. Its just not possible to use the low latency versions with XRGB mini. It wont recognize the weird refresh rate. And no 240p out of Component either. Fuckin bummer!! You need a PVM / CRT for the low latency version it seems.
i ended up ordering a SDML because there's no other easy way for me to get homebrew loaded on GC (modding the machine itself is out of the question because my country is completely devoid of any place to do that and shipping the machine would be far more expensive than the SDML and getting PSO + BBA is also more expensive)
i've got a CRT since i got one recently so that should be good for now until there's more options available.
this should at least provide some fun with comparisons and stuff.
BONKERS
Member
BazookaBen said:donhonk said:bobrocks95 said:
This is where I get this from actually
The post you quoted was from months ago, BEFORE he created the ULL player. So they're talking about the standard GBI + Swiss + who knows what else, I'm not going to keep reading.
But I can confirm that the ULL does in fact play at 240p over component cables. I played Metroid Fusion from start to finish with it on a PVM CRT over the past couple weeks. Picture proof a couple pages back. Your problem is somewhere else in the chain.
^^^
Metroid Fusion running at 240p over GBI
Actually component isn't RGB. Its YPbPr. Its a way of compressing RGB so it ends up a bit different. I believe the black level is also different than full RGB. Speaking of full RGB, its not a guarantee that you'll get full RGB via HDMI. You might actually get limited RGB which has a different black level . Or you might actually get the digital form of component as YCbCr.
baphomet
Member
^^^
Metroid Fusion running at 240p over GBI
Yea, directly booting the LL GBI disc starts in 240p for me as well. It's just the main disc that doesn't seem to work with 240p and component cables.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
^^^
Metroid Fusion running at 240p over GBI
Hnnnggggggg! I really need to get an SD Media Launcher.
!!
What kind of display are you guys using? Im guessing not an HDTV. D: Gotta find a PVM...
D.Lo
Member
Holy crap okay that's it. I'm keeping my d-terminal cable.^^^
Metroid Fusion running at 240p over GBI
XenoGC seems to be the way to go then hey...
baphomet
Member
Running it through my mini the LL version is working just fine. Haven't checked the ULL version yet.
Edit - Yea, there's no reason not to spend the $10 to put a XenoGC in there.
Damn, not sure why but I do not get picture at all. But at least theres hope. Any guesses as to why Im not getting any picture?
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