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[Galdelico]

Ok, so... I just said 'no more Trinitron flatscreens' a few posts ago, and now I stumble upon one of these (Sony KV-21fx30b), that I could get my hands on for free:

Since I read this particular model was more common than the one I'm actually using, I thought to check out if there's any retrogaffer here, rocking the same CRT, and - in case - what's their feedback. I think the service menu on this Trinitron features a few more options (like V-scroll and V-slope), which aren't available on my current TV, so maybe there is a higher chance to fix potential geometry issues. Suggestions?

 

[Mega]

Yeah, not the best but still very solid for an emulator nonetheless. BSNES in RetroArch with CRT filters would be my favorite.

Tarin, don't you find the size to be too small to be practical? It's only 7.4" wide, which at the necessary 4:3 crop for old games makes it more like a 6" screen.

OLED PVM compared to 8" PVM CRT (Note the OLED is almost half as small in 4:3 mode)
http://www.displaywars.com/7,4-inch-16x9-vs-8-inch-4x3

The OLED PVM compares to 6" CRT
http://www.displaywars.com/7,4-inch-16x9-vs-6-inch-4x3

I got a 8" PVM but just for laughs and curiosity, cost me $10. It's uncomfortably small for regular gaming so I can only imagine how much more constrained it is for you. I think if you wanted to run retro game emulators with the picture quality of OLED, you could have gotten a nice little computer CRT (very cheap too).

 

[sixteen-bit]

lol whats higan?

 

[Tarin02543]

Yeah, not the best but still very solid for an emulator nonetheless. BSNES in RetroArch with CRT filters would be my favorite.

Tarin, don't you find the size to be too small to be practical? It's only 7.4" wide, which at the necessary 4:3 crop for old games makes it more like a 6" screen.

OLED PVM compared to 8" PVM CRT (Note the OLED is almost half as small in 4:3 mode)
http://www.displaywars.com/7,4-inch-16x9-vs-8-inch-4x3

The OLED PVM compares to 6" CRT
http://www.displaywars.com/7,4-inch-16x9-vs-6-inch-4x3

I got a 8" PVM but just for laughs and curiosity, cost me $10. It's uncomfortably small for regular gaming so I can only imagine how much more constrained it is for you. I think if you wanted to run retro game emulators with the picture quality of OLED, you could have gotten a nice little computer CRT (very cheap too).

Yes, I admit the screen is really small. My house is a small brick rowhouse, I don't really have space for a CRT. My attic is spacious but the corridors leading to it are too narrow for large items.

I might invest in a framemeister a few years down the line, I'm hoping a cheaper budget version will exist by then.

 

[Funky Papa]

Laugh all you want, but I feel that OLED is going to make for an excellent solution in a few years for all those nerds with a retrogaming itch to scratch and SOL at finding quality CRTs.

Slap some *good* filters and you can enjoy the absurd contrast of the best CRTs of yore with crazy low response times and even deeper blacks.

Most MAME cabinets (even commercial ones!) are absolute garbage because LCD displays still look like shit (specially when angled), have poor blacks and feature crap motion resolution. While not the real thing, OLED is a brilliant compromise.

 

[Ivan Amiibo]

small, dumb side note: if you have sound issues (distortion, pops, etc.) through a Framemeister, be sure to turn down the audio from the default 32 setting. Finally did this the other week after going through my whole console > XRGB > PC cap card > TV > Receiver set up and trying to find what was wrong. Everything down the line was putting it's own boost on the audio lol

 

[Mega]

I'm not laughing. I just think the screen is incredibly small to be useful. I also think most OLED displays have motion blur due to high persistence of the image, so they're still not better than CRTs for retro gaming.

http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/oled-motion-blur/

Recently, several researchers (Hiroyuki Ito, Masaki Ogawa and Shoji Sunaga) have published OLED responsiveness findings about the Sony Trimaster PVM-2541, a Sony OLED display targeted at the professional markets.

This active-matrix OLED is impulse-driven at 7.5 milliseconds per pixel via a rolling scan, and has roughly equivalent motion blur as 120Hz non-LightBoost computer monitors, and LightBoost still outperforms OLED with as little as 1.4 milliseconds of measured motion blur (see 60Hz vs 120Hz vs LightBoost). As of 2013, most strobe-backlight gaming monitors today (see List of 120Hz/144Hz Monitors) has lower persistence than OLED.

As shown in this chart from the scientific paper, “Evaluation of an organic light-emitting diode display for precise visual stimulation“, the graph shows this specific Sony OLED has slower response than CRT, with more motion blur. Currently, the best plasma displays and best LCD displays can outperform this specific OLED in terms of motion resolution. This may be a design decision of a balanced compromise between flicker, brightness, and motion blur. Future OLEDs may provide an adjustable black period for an adjustable trade-off.

These still cost thousands and tens of thousands. The price won't come down enough in a few years to make them more affordable to gamers, especially since production studios aren't going to offload them in large quantities like they did with the major CRT-to-LCD transition that's allowing us to now benefit from cheap pro CRTs. Then there's the matter of them being a lot costlier and no better at doing anything than a good plasma and certain LED displays.

 

[Peagles]

Dunno if it's just the photos but it looks very blurry to me.

 

[speedlolita]

A good IPS screen is every good as bit as an OLED screen. You don't fucking need OLED to play retro games, lmao.

 

[Funky Papa]

A good IPS screen is every good as bit as an OLED screen. You don't fucking need OLED to play retro games, lmao.

I don't know what kind of OLED displays have you seen, but this is untrue. Specially if your preference is contrast and deep blacks. The gamut is also insane.

There's a good reason professional monitors are slowly migrating towards OLED.

 

[Timu]

Snes9x is IMO the best SNES emulator out there.

I tried it for years and I don't agree after trying BSNES/Higan.

 

[Shadow Hog]

Ok, so... I just said 'no more Trinitron flatscreens' a few posts ago, and now I stumble upon one of these (Sony KV-21fx30b), that I could get my hands on for free:

Since I read this particular model was more common than the one I'm actually using, I thought to check out if there's any retrogaffer here, rocking the same CRT, and - in case - what's their feedback. I think the service menu on this Trinitron features a few more options (like V-scroll and V-slope), which aren't available on my current TV, so maybe there is a higher chance to fix potential geometry issues. Suggestions?

I have a Sony KV-27FS100L, which looks a fair bit like that. It's pretty decent, from what I've tried; its component input is particularly awesome (if limited to 480i - it certainly isn't an EDTV). Although, I recall trying the NES's composite on it and it looking more like what I'd get if I tried NES composite on my LCD TV than some of the other CRTs at the Goodwill I bought it from. Since I didn't have the remote at that time, it's entirely possible one of its special features was enabled that smudges the image a bit; like, "Sony MotionSense" or something. I recall the component image looking much better when I disabled it.

Haven't dabbled in its service menu, though. (Or any TV's service menu, for that matter.) Will probably have to, since I noticed it cuts off a little on the bottom (only a few pixels, but still!). It has a letterboxed mode for widescreen content, though, which is both nifty and doesn't cut off the bottom.

Really, I need to start using it more often, but I also need to figure out how the hell I'm gonna store my consoles in the room the TV's currently stationed in, and haven't gotten around to doing so yet.

 

[IrishNinja]

Try this one

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8c8o1v4griubyoz/XRGBProfiles.rar?dl=0

that did it! thanks man, lookin forward to any others you toss out there!

ahaha this got me

 

[4444244]

Devil Crash on a PCE CoreGrafx with EXT RGB Mod on my 14" PVM;

 

[Mega]

Looks good!

 

[Tarin02543]

Yes, that looks real good

 

[televator]

Regardless of opinions, Higan is the most accurate SNES emulator.

 

[Flizzzipper]

What would be the cause of...how to explain this...heatwave like video distortion on certain solid colors displaying through console-rgb-framemeister-hdmi-lcd tv. It only happens on some colors and it is super faint. Not really noticable except on NES because of the lower color totals. It will even change drastically if i change the color mode switch on my nes on a game like RBI baseball, two of the greens will have nothing and one will have the slight distortion. Power issue or slight sync issue? The electrical in my house is ancient. It never alters the lines or bleeds through to other pixels, just the pixels with that same color.

EDIT - seems to be tv setting somewhere because it stopped when I turned game mode off, I'll have to tinker with settings

 

[IrishNinja]

Regardless of opinions, Higan is the most accurate SNES emulator.

i don't mess with em much, but wasn't bsnes or whatever more accurate? has that changed in recent years?

 

[Peltz]

Hello everyone,

I am proud to present my new toy, a Sony PVM-740 RGB OLED Monitor.

This thread has me fascinated for a long time, while I was browing ebay for a PVM I encountered an auction for this OLED monitor and I just had to have it. It is a small unit, here it is compared to my Panasonic LCD:



Inputs are composite BNC and HDMI (+SDI), my retro consoles are all connected via composite. The best way would ofcourse be a Framemeister but that would mean an extra 300 € investment + matching RGB cables.

Here I am running Shinobi Sega CD through composite:



TV:



One small problem with composite is that I can't get true blacks, everything is dark grey.

Overall I'm very happy with my purchase and I can't wait to find out what sort of things I'll be able to pull off with that OLED quality.

Man now I've seen everything. After seeing the Vita's OLED screen, I am also very psyched about the future. But not for old school gaming, and certainly not at that size. Yikes.

How's the input lag on that thing?

Also, I don't think OLED has truer blacks than CRT but it does have better contrast and brighter whites. The blacks are infinite on both forms of tech afaik.

 

[televator]

i don't mess with em much, but wasn't bsnes or whatever more accurate? has that changed in recent years?

BSNES was refined, expanded, and renamed by its creator to Higan.

 

[Peagles]

Anyone use a Toro with their DC? Finally got the one I ordered in October, but the power led won't even come on, let alone give me any sound or video. Tips?

 

[Peltz]

Anyone use a Toro with their DC? Finally got the one I ordered in October, but the power led won't even come on, let alone give me any sound or video. Tips?

Push it further into the DC. The cable is pretty stubborn and really needs to be forced in.

 

[IrishNinja]

BSNES was refined, expanded, and renamed by its creator to Higan.

ahhh, well that answers that!

 

[LucidMomentum]

Devil Crash on a PCE CoreGrafx with EXT RGB Mod on my 14" PVM;

Yeah, I'm glad I got a 14" PVM now...

If it survives the shipping process, that is :/

 

[Peagles]

Push it further into the DC. The cable is pretty stubborn and really needs to be forced in.

You're a star, thanks!

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

So I got the retro game itch but I'm not up for buying into upscaling hardware just yet. What CRTs should I keep an eye out for at my local thrift shops?

 

[Sixfortyfive]

What would be the cause of...how to explain this...heatwave like video distortion on certain solid colors displaying through console-rgb-framemeister-hdmi-lcd tv. It only happens on some colors and it is super faint. Not really noticable except on NES because of the lower color totals. It will even change drastically if i change the color mode switch on my nes on a game like RBI baseball, two of the greens will have nothing and one will have the slight distortion. Power issue or slight sync issue? The electrical in my house is ancient. It never alters the lines or bleeds through to other pixels, just the pixels with that same color.

EDIT - seems to be tv setting somewhere because it stopped when I turned game mode off, I'll have to tinker with settings

Got a picture of this in action?

So I got the retro game itch but I'm not up for buying into upscaling hardware just yet. What CRTs should I keep an eye out for at my local thrift shops?

For consumer televisions: component and s-video inputs, plus progressive scan support if you're lucky enough to find a set that supports it. Google the model numbers for this kind of info if possible.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

My NES isn't going to do any better than composite and I don't think my SNES supports component over its multi AV out, or does it?

 

[Sixfortyfive]

My NES isn't going to do any better than composite and I don't think my SNES supports component over its multi AV out, or does it?

RGB-to-component converters are a great match for North American CRTs.

Plus, the PS2 in particular is better-suited to a CRT EDTV than just about anything else you can expect to find in the wild.

 

[Madao]

soon i'll have an HDMI N64 (end of the month but i'm very hyped already) so i might end up selling my RGB N64 (i sent a different unit because i heard there's extra stuff involved if you want to have both mods on the same console and i had another spare N64)

but before that, i'll do various comparisons to see if it's worth keeping both.

 

[Morfeo]

soon i'll have an HDMI N64 (end of the month but i'm very hyped already) so i might end up selling my RGB N64 (i sent a different unit because i heard there's extra stuff involved if you want to have both mods on the same console and i had another spare N64)

but before that, i'll do various comparisons to see if it's worth keeping both.

Woulv love to see some screen of this comparison!

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

RGB-to-component converters are a great match for North American CRTs.

Plus, the PS2 in particular is better-suited to a CRT EDTV than just about anything else you can expect to find in the wild.

But does the SNES even output RGB? I know the NES doesn't.

 

[IrishNinja]

But does the SNES even output RGB? I know the NES doesn't.

it does! about the only US based nintendo system i know of that does natively

 

[Timu]

But does the SNES even output RGB? I know the NES doesn't.

Of course, mine does and I take screenshots and vids with it!

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

it does! about the only US based nintendo system i know of that does natively

Interesting, I had no idea. I'm so used to everything seemingly requiring a mod of some kind to output RGB. Thanks.

 

[Teknoman]

RGB-to-component converters are a great match for North American CRTs.

Plus, the PS2 in particular is better-suited to a CRT EDTV than just about anything else you can expect to find in the wild.

RGB modded PC engine shouldnt have any problems with a converter right? Being a Japanese system and all...I mean the mod would still have it using the standard RGB Scart cable output i'd think?

 

[Madao]

Interesting, I had no idea. I'm so used to everything seemingly requiring a mod of some kind to output RGB. Thanks.

the mini SNES does require a mod for RGB but the original one does it out of the box. i remember it was the first system i could test RGB with.

 

[Galdelico]

I have a Sony KV-27FS100L, which looks a fair bit like that. It's pretty decent, from what I've tried; its component input is particularly awesome (if limited to 480i - it certainly isn't an EDTV). Although, I recall trying the NES's composite on it and it looking more like what I'd get if I tried NES composite on my LCD TV than some of the other CRTs at the Goodwill I bought it from. Since I didn't have the remote at that time, it's entirely possible one of its special features was enabled that smudges the image a bit; like, "Sony MotionSense" or something. I recall the component image looking much better when I disabled it.

Haven't dabbled in its service menu, though. (Or any TV's service menu, for that matter.) Will probably have to, since I noticed it cuts off a little on the bottom (only a few pixels, but still!). It has a letterboxed mode for widescreen content, though, which is both nifty and doesn't cut off the bottom.

Really, I need to start using it more often, but I also need to figure out how the hell I'm gonna store my consoles in the room the TV's currently stationed in, and haven't gotten around to doing so yet.

Thanks!
I guess your TV is some fancier, higher-spec model, since the one I posted doesn't come with component inputs (tbh I've never seen them on those mid-range CRTs, at least on European ones) and even does S-Video only through its second scart socket. Maybe some Eurogaffer can give me a better clue about the KV-21FX30B (didn't even manage to find anything on YouTube, which leads me to believe it's not a prime choice, when it comes to gaming).

 

[Shin Johnpv]

that did it! thanks man, lookin forward to any others you toss out there!

No problem hope they work well for you. I'm going to hopefully try to do some more this weekend but I'm not sure I'll have the time.

 

[Tarin02543]

How's the input lag on that thing?

I feed its native resolution: 960 x 540 customized in windows 10.

No lag.

 

[missile]

PAL. It has an interlace mode so it can display 576i correctly in the same manner a PAL CRT would. ...

Yeah, but not if the source is off. If the composite video comes from digital
equipment then there is a good chance that the conversion process offsets the
signal by not scaling to the right IRE levels. What's your composite source?
A DVD player perhaps? Try a real composite PAL signal, perhaps from an old
VCR, and see if the blacks are blacker than.

Laugh all you want, but I feel that OLED is going to make for an excellent solution in a few years for all those nerds with a retrogaming itch to scratch and SOL at finding quality CRTs.

Slap some *good* filters and you can enjoy the absurd contrast of the best CRTs of yore with crazy low response times and even deeper blacks. ...

I also have an eye on OLEDs for TV simulation. I mean, the large color gamut
allows for a much better reproduction of the NTSC/PAL color gamut making color
TV reproductions look more faithful than ever before.

 

[Peltz]

Interesting, I had no idea. I'm so used to everything seemingly requiring a mod of some kind to output RGB. Thanks.

Many non-Nintendo US systems also output RGB natively.

 

[Peltz]

I feed its native resolution: 960 x 540 customized in windows 10.

No lag.

Retro gaming done right....sorta....maybe...kinda?

 

[Tarin02543]

Yeah, but not if the source is off. If the composite video comes from digital
equipment then there is a good chance that the conversion process offsets the
signal by not scaling to the right IRE levels. What's your composite source?
A DVD player perhaps? Try a real composite PAL signal, perhaps from an old
VCR, and see if the blacks are blacker than.



I also have an eye on OLEDs for TV simulation. I mean, the large color gamut
allows for a much better reproduction of the NTSC/PAL color gamut making color
TV reproductions look more faithful than ever before.

Composite coming from snes and megadrive. Here i am running PS2 through composite in 4:3 mode, you can see how grey the image is.







It's fed through a BNC to RCA converter:



I've been watching some tv on it (settop box through hdmi + internet) as well and it really looks a miniature version of my Panasonic plasma, in regards to picture depth and motion clarity.

 

[Tarin02543]

Retro gaming done right....sorta....maybe...kinda?

I'm saving for a Framemeister.

 

[Morfeo]

Many non-Nintendo US systems also output RGB natively.

Gamecube and Wii right?

 

[missile]

Composite coming from snes and megadrive. Here i am running PS2 through composite in 4:3 mode, you can see how grey the image is. ...

Way too bright. Can you put NTSC into as well? Would be interested if the
brightness would be the same. Well, you may have an option within the menu
to adjust the setup/pedestal of composite video.

 

[Tarin02543]

Way too bright. Can you put NTSC into as well? Would be interested if the
brightness would be the same. Well, you may have an option within the menu
to adjust the setup/pedestal of composite video.

I've adjusted brightness and contrast, seems like I've found the solution:



thanks

 

[missile]

^ That was easy than. :+