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[Peltz]

Are there any multiconsoles that output RGB? I know the Super Retro Trio and the Retron 3 have S-Video, but I can't seem to find any that do RGB. Or, is there a way to convert HDMI to RGB SCART? I know they're two different systems, but is there a convertor box or anything like that?

You're trying to do things that just shouldn't be done sir. If you're going the emulation route, get a Wii and soft mod it and use some Component cables. Do not get any shitty clone boxes with "Retron" in the title if you want 240p gaming.

Edit: beaten. I also suggest the PAL Wii route. Or maybe someone could point you in the direction of a Component to RGB SCART transcoder (if such a thing exists... In theory it should).

 

[YesManKablam]

I think Mega uses the HD Fury 4 to convert HDMI to RGB SCART and play games like AM2R and Freedom Planet in 240p on a CRT.

Geez, that thing's like $400. I'll guess I'll stick to the Wii.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Homies on the OSSC waiting list -- here's an update on availability:


For the second batch of units, we've dug deep and "bet the farm" to order a much larger quantity of 500 units. We realise that those of you who have just discovered this project may be disappointed that we're not able to supply an even larger quantity, but stick with us! After this batch we'll immediately be ordering another 500 which we're hoping will arrive in time for Christmas, though this depends on how busy the factory is and how quickly this next batch is delivered.

 

[Chao]

Found a 29" Sony Trinitron for 20€ in my town. It's amazing how different the games feel because of the ultra responsive controls and the real scanlines. It's just beautiful!

 

[Peltz]

Found a 29" Sony Trinitron for 20€ in my town. It's amazing how different the games feel because of the ultra responsive controls and the real scanlines. It's just beautiful!

Enjoy. That feeling of playing old school games on a real CRT after years of fixed pixel displays is like magic a over again.

 

[NormalFish]

Oh that's the pre-built one. I thought you were talking about the diy kit that comes with the parts but still needs assembling. I might be confusing everyone lol

1) Pre-built OSSC - £150
2) Barebones DIY kit - £38
3) All parts supplied but need assembling DIY kit - ???

One and two are listed on videogamepefection, just curious how much the third option is that NormalFish alluded too.

Think it was 100

 

[Vespa]

Think it was 100

Thanks for the info! Kinda wish I waited and ponied up more for the OSSC instead of getting the GARO.

 

[Grief.exe]

If I do the GC HDMI mod, how do I then convert that signal to BNC for CRT use?

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

Found a 29" Sony Trinitron for 20€ in my town. It's amazing how different the games feel because of the ultra responsive controls and the real scanlines. It's just beautiful!

Nice. Think I'm gonna hit a few thrift shops during the day tomorrow. I haven't been CRT hunting since March.

 

[Peltz]

If I do the GC HDMI mod, how do I then convert that signal to BNC for CRT use?

I suddenly see a lot of people asking about HDMI to RGB analogue conversions. That sounds so messy though.

Why not just grab an s-video cable?

 

[dallow_bg]

Homies on the OSSC waiting list -- here's an update on availability:


For the second batch of units, we've dug deep and "bet the farm" to order a much larger quantity of 500 units. We realise that those of you who have just discovered this project may be disappointed that we're not able to supply an even larger quantity, but stick with us! After this batch we'll immediately be ordering another 500 which we're hoping will arrive in time for Christmas, though this depends on how busy the factory is and how quickly this next batch is delivered.

**waits patiently**

 

[Grief.exe]

I suddenly see a lot of people asking about HDMI to RGB analogue conversions. That sounds so messy though.

Why not just grab an s-video cable?

I have to double check whether this PVM I found has S video, I know it has BNC though.

So looks like HDMI to DVI converter, then DVI to BNC.

If your Monitor doesn’t have HDMI:

Replace HDMI with an HDMI to DVI adapter, separate Audio output is recommended (although DVI can theoretically output audio, almos all monitors have no speakers)

Edit: it does have S-Video

 

[Khaz]

Why not use Scart though?

 

[Grief.exe]

Why not use Scart though?

HDMI to scart to BNC?

Or are you saying scart output to BNC directly? I don't have a PAL Cube.

I haven't heard back from the guy selling it yet, so can't get hyped up.

 

[Khaz]

Oh yeah, forgot about the whole PAL/NTSC GC.

Though it'd probably be easier and cheaper to import a PAL GC with an RGB cable than to mod a GC for HDMI then do HDMI to RGB. Pretty sure you'd lose some definition that way, and I'm not going to argue about input lag.

 

[RadarScope1]

Found a 29" Sony Trinitron for 20€ in my town. It's amazing how different the games feel because of the ultra responsive controls and the real scanlines. It's just beautiful!

Just don't think I will ever play classic games on a modern TV, no matter how good or responsive the scalers get.

 

[Grief.exe]

Oh yeah, forgot about the whole PAL/NTSC GC.

Though it'd probably be easier and cheaper to import a PAL GC with an RGB cable than to mod a GC for HDMI then do HDMI to RGB. Pretty sure you'd lose some definition that way, and I'm not going to argue about input lag.

Are those compatible with NTSC games? NTSC GB Player?

They are compatible with 480p and SCART by default, correct?

 

[Rich!]

Are those compatible with NTSC games? NTSC GB Player?

They are compatible with 480p and SCART by default, correct?

PAL GameCube is compatible with everything when modded.

Gameboy player hardware is region free regardless.

 

[flyover]

Anyone have a recommendation for 4k TV (50-55") makes/models that do a nice job upscaling XRGB-mini content -- with and without scanlines? Or, conversely, any makes/models to avoid, if most do a decent job? For example, I've read that Vizio's P series is pretty good except for upscaling 480/720p content, so it's likely out.

The ultimate would be if a TV had an option for nearest-neighbor upscaling: copying nearby pixels exactly, rather than interpolating and blurring. I know Panasonic used to offer it. But I don't know that any manufacturers have 2016 models with that as an option, so I wondered if anyone's been happy with other models' upscalers.

We only have room for one TV at our place, and I just want to make sure I get something that does a decent job with the Framemeister. (Not too picky about things like lag, since I mostly play RPGs. I'll probably change my tune on this point when I get stuck on the jumps in Xenogears' Babel Tower... again!)

 

[Grief.exe]

PAL GameCube is compatible with everything when modded.

Gameboy player hardware is region free regardless.

So that would work with my SNES scart since they are both multiout.

 

[Rich!]

So that would work with my SNES scart since they are both multiout.

Not the pal snes scart, no.

 

[Grief.exe]

Not the pal snes scart, no.

Seems they are wired differently, here we go

https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk...ecube-gc-rgb-scart-cable-pal-for-sale-dol-013

Scart outputs 480p, correct? I don't know why that stigma exists.
PAL GC fine for 60Hz?
XenoGC is the optimal mod chip?

 

[Khaz]

Is your PVM capable of 480p?

 

[TyMiles2012]

Wanted to ask. Any good SVideo and Composite upscaler alternative to the Frameister? Preferably with HDMI out? My Vizio UHD won't detect my 240p systems.

I heard a lot of common upscalers have bad latency. My experiences with Composite straight to a TV were good before I made the 4K jump, but I want to try an upscaler for a change.

 

[Grief.exe]

Is your PVM capable of 480p?

He hasn't gotten back to me, but 750 horizontal lines.

I would also pump the scart through the Framemeister to my HD TV well.

Anyone have a recommendation for 4k TV (50-55") makes/models that do a nice job upscaling XRGB-mini content -- with and without scanlines? Or, conversely, any makes/models to avoid, if most do a decent job? For example, I've read that Vizio's P series is pretty good except for upscaling 480/720p content, so it's likely out.

The ultimate would be if a TV had an option for nearest-neighbor upscaling: copying nearby pixels exactly, rather than interpolating and blurring. I know Panasonic used to offer it. But I don't know that any manufacturers have 2016 models with that as an option, so I wondered if anyone's been happy with other models' upscalers.

We only have room for one TV at our place, and I just want to make sure I get something that does a decent job with the Framemeister. (Not too picky about things like lag, since I mostly play RPGs. I'll probably change my tune on this point when I get stuck on the jumps in Xenogears' Babel Tower... again!)

I just googled it, and apparently Panasonic's have a 4x pixel upscale option. Might be worth looking into.

 

[CharlesDangus]

Recently bought a Genesis, Vectorman and Ecco. I hooked it up to a tiny Panasonic DVD player combo CRT. Even with composite, it looks great compared to any attempt to hook it up to an HD set. I totally forgot how amazing it FELT to play on a CRT. A lot of my experiences playing even modern games on HDTV feel like mud compared to this setup

 

[Khaz]

He hasn't gotten back to me, but 750 horizontal lines.

Hmm. Aren't you confusing TV lines and scan lines?

480p capability should be explicit, with either 480p, 31kHz, or EDTV/HDTV, or multisync labels.

 

[Peltz]

Oh yeah, forgot about the whole PAL/NTSC GC.

Though it'd probably be easier and cheaper to import a PAL GC with an RGB cable than to mod a GC for HDMI then do HDMI to RGB. Pretty sure you'd lose some definition that way, and I'm not going to argue about input lag.

Agreed. I'd rather game on a truly analogue source than convert digital to analogue.

Grab a PAL GCN or Wii plus RGB cables. Or go the S-video route.

S-Video is bound to be a more enjoyable and authentic than any sort of crazy configuration that makes you convert HDMI to RGB SCART.

 

[New002]

So I have an AVS on order, but I recently found out that my retro gaming TV can't properly scale 720p and scanlines get messed up.

This has me considering an RGB mod again. Do you guys think it's worth putting the money into an RGB modded front loader or should I really be looking at a top loader or av Famicom if I'm gonna do this? I already have the front loader, so this would save me quite a bit, but is there any major downside to going that route?

 

[Grief.exe]

Hmm. Aren't you confusing TV lines and scan lines?

480p capability should be explicit, with either 480p, 31kHz, or EDTV/HDTV, or multisync labels.

"High definition picture tube that reproduces pictures with a horizontal resolution of 750 TV lines or more."

It does say high definition, so I'm assuming 720p? The lower tier model is called a medium definition picture tube lol

Edit: just texted me back and said sold yesterday

 

[Balb]

So I have an AVS on order, but I recently found out that my retro gaming TV can't properly scale 720p and scanlines get messed up.

This has me considering an RGB mod again. Do you guys think it's worth putting the money into an RGB modded front loader or should I really be looking at a top loader or av Famicom if I'm gonna do this? I already have the front loader, so this would save me quite a bit, but is there any major downside to going that route?

The appeal of the AV Famicom is that it covers all of your bases (region-free with adapter, Famicom Disk System) with the least amount of hassle. If you only plan on playing games from your region, the front loader should do the job.

 

[NormalFish]

"High definition picture tube that reproduces pictures with a horizontal resolution of 750 TV lines or more."

It does say high definition, so I'm assuming 720p? The lower tier model is called a medium definition picture tube lol

Edit: just texted me back and said sold yesterday

they probably literally mean "high definition" as in lots of definition. TV lines are, essentially, a measure of how small a detail a specific TV can display. You can't think of it in terms of pixel resolutions.

 

[Khaz]

"High definition picture tube that reproduces pictures with a horizontal resolution of 750 TV lines or more."

It does say high definition, so I'm assuming 720p? The lower tier model is called a medium definition picture tube lol

Edit: just texted me back and said sold yesterday

750 TV lines is the horizontal resolution, how many pixels you can fit on a line before it starts being blurry. Before HD TVs, high definition meant high horizontal resolution.

The vertical resolution is defined by how fast the electron beam can scan the screen surface. It's expressed in Hertz (=1/s): to display 60 frames per seconds, the vertical scan rate is fixed at 60Hz. in that 1/60s period, a beam scanning at 15kHz horizontally will have time to draw 240 scan lines, whereas a beam scanning at 31kHz will have time to draw 480 scan lines.

The horizontal resolution is how many pixels you can fit on a line. Unlike vertically, there is a horizontal upper limit. It's the size of the aperture grille dot pitch, and is often expressed as TVL (the maximum amount of distinct black and white vertical lines you can trace). It's a soft upper limit: everything under will display perfectly fine, and it will be able to display a picture with a higher horizontal definition, though a bit more blurry.

 

[Madao]

Homies on the OSSC waiting list -- here's an update on availability:


For the second batch of units, we've dug deep and "bet the farm" to order a much larger quantity of 500 units. We realise that those of you who have just discovered this project may be disappointed that we're not able to supply an even larger quantity, but stick with us! After this batch we'll immediately be ordering another 500 which we're hoping will arrive in time for Christmas, though this depends on how busy the factory is and how quickly this next batch is delivered.

i saw that email.

i wonder how do people that are in the range of the shipment amount know if they can order. will they get an extra email telling them to order or is it first-come-first-serve?

If I do the GC HDMI mod, how do I then convert that signal to BNC for CRT use?

does the GC HDMI mod you're eyeing remove the original analog output from the console? i've seen mods that keep the connector so you could do both at the same time like the HDMI N64.

 

[Einhandr]

i saw that email.

i wonder how do people that are in the range of the shipment amount know if they can order. will they get an extra email telling them to order or is it first-come-first-serve?



does the GC HDMI mod you're eyeing remove the original analog output from the console? i've seen mods that keep the connector so you could do both at the same time like the HDMI N64.

I think if you're in line you get a separate email with how to order. If you don't respond within 48 hours I think then he goes down that many numbers of the people who didn't respond.

I think.

 

[Mega]

"High definition picture tube that reproduces pictures with a horizontal resolution of 750 TV lines or more."

It does say high definition, so I'm assuming 720p? The lower tier model is called a medium definition picture tube lol

Edit: just texted me back and said sold yesterday

The monitor you were considering was a JVC BM-H1900SU? It's 15KHz scanning frequency... max 240p/480i.

If you wanna get a GC mod and then convert it to a format your standard def TV or monitor can handle, you could try this converter, which I'm almost certain supports converting down to 480i. I can confirm later as I own it.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JVNUAEI/?tag=neogaf0e-20

does the GC HDMI mod you're eyeing remove the original analog output from the console? i've seen mods that keep the connector so you could do both at the same time like the HDMI N64.

I think he wants the GC mod for the better than S-video quality, then convert to a SD RGB or Component signal his CRT can handle. Basically a workaround to buying a $250 Component cable. It should look better than S-video.

 

[Mega]

Anyone have a recommendation for 4k TV (50-55") makes/models that do a nice job upscaling XRGB-mini content -- with and without scanlines? Or, conversely, any makes/models to avoid, if most do a decent job? For example, I've read that Vizio's P series is pretty good except for upscaling 480/720p content, so it's likely out.

The ultimate would be if a TV had an option for nearest-neighbor upscaling: copying nearby pixels exactly, rather than interpolating and blurring. I know Panasonic used to offer it. But I don't know that any manufacturers have 2016 models with that as an option, so I wondered if anyone's been happy with other models' upscalers.

We only have room for one TV at our place, and I just want to make sure I get something that does a decent job with the Framemeister. (Not too picky about things like lag, since I mostly play RPGs. I'll probably change my tune on this point when I get stuck on the jumps in Xenogears' Babel Tower... again!)

Relevant post from AVS thread:

I've been mulling over this for days and concluded that the AVS is not a viable option at this point for anyone concerned with crisp, perfectly scaled visuals. Since the console tops out at 720p, the display will need to handle scaling. A 1080p display won't scale this properly and 720p sets are all actually 768p, and so the recommendation was made to get a 4K display. The problem is that apparently no 4K TV has nearest neighbor integer scaling. They all do bilinear filtering which results in blurry upscaling: fine for TV and movies, terrible for video games (especially sprite-based retro games). This was a problem discovered by 4K TV owners on both the Geforce forums and AMD forums. They are currently trying to get Nvidia and AMD to release drivers that will allow proper integer scaling at the video card end since all their UHD displays' internal scaling is falling short. Therefore, no display that will present AVS's 720p at its theoretical best.

The only truly good options then are an RGB-modded NES with a quality upscaler (OSSC, XRGB) or best of all: the High Def NES. And only on a 1080p panel for either of these solutions as they top out at 1080p and their sharp upscaling will be undone by the inferior upscale on a 4K display.

In short, 4K TVs are looking bad now for upscaling content and I think we're looking at a future where we will need dedicated 4K upscalers if TV manufacturers don't step up.

 

[YesManKablam]

Just want to check before I buy anything, but retroarch on the wii will output at 240p, right?

 

[TyMiles2012]

Relevant post from AVS thread:



In short, 4K TVs are looking bad now for upscaling content and I think we're looking at a future where we will need dedicated 4K upscalers if TV manufacturers don't step up.

Can confirm, like I posted earlier, my TV won't even detect 240p. It'll flicker a little, then revert to no signal. Old and cheap CRT I have works fine.

 

[Vespa]

Just want to check before I buy anything, but retroarch on the wii will output at 240p, right?

Yep.

 

[Mega]

Can confirm, like I posted earlier, my TV won't even detect 240p. It'll flicker a little, then revert to no signal. Old and cheap CRT I have works fine.

Spotty 240p support wasn't really the jist of my post. It's that 4K TVs apparently all suck at upscaling 480p, 720p, 1080p games... basically they're only good for native res content.

 

[gelf]

If I wanted to play certain PC games on a CRT what would I need? I find this stuff pretty confusing and any previous attempts to do this have resulted in failure or crappy picture. The best input on my TV is RGB Scart and it has no S-Video inputs. I did try a couple of different S-Video to Scart adaptors but the picture I got had poor colours and fuzzy lines all over it, even after I tried software to force the PC to output lower resolutions.

 

[TyMiles2012]

Spotty 240p support wasn't really the jist of my post. It's that 4K TVs apparently all suck at upscaling 480p, 720p, 1080p games... basically they're only good for native res content.

Really? My Vizio looks great with 1080p content. 720p is 720p, never been a fan of that resolution. The TV only cost me $750USD, very cheap compared to most others I've seen.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Relevant post from AVS thread:



In short, 4K TVs are looking bad now for upscaling content and I think we're looking at a future where we will need dedicated 4K upscalers if TV manufacturers don't step up.

Is that still the case for 4k monitors, though? I'm looking at buying one of those Acer Predator monitors for my old-school setup, and I'm hoping it's not garbage-tier like the rest of the 4k shit tends to be.

Crazy to me how displays have just gotten worse and worse for actual legitimate video games.

 

[RadarScope1]

Recently bought a Genesis, Vectorman and Ecco. I hooked it up to a tiny Panasonic DVD player combo CRT. Even with composite, it looks great compared to any attempt to hook it up to an HD set. I totally forgot how amazing it FELT to play on a CRT. A lot of my experiences playing even modern games on HDTV feel like mud compared to this setup

Welcome.

 

[entremet]

MLiG - Framemeister alternatives

 

[flyover]

Relevant post from AVS thread:

In short, 4K TVs are looking bad now for upscaling content and I think we're looking at a future where we will need dedicated 4K upscalers if TV manufacturers don't step up.

This is exactly what I was wondering about. Thanks so much for the info! (Edit: Still kind of wonder what the least-bad option is...)

Crazy to me how displays have just gotten worse and worse for actual legitimate video games.

Yeah. I wonder if there's a niche for a minimalist, high-end, no-nonsense (smart-featureless) TV targeted toward gamers. Maybe not, but I know I'd pay a premium for one.

 

[Grief.exe]

In short, 4K TVs are looking bad now for upscaling content and I think we're looking at a future where we will need dedicated 4K upscalers if TV manufacturers don't step up.

XRGB/OSCC 4K firmware update please.

 

[Mega]

Really? My Vizio looks great with 1080p content. 720p is 720p, never been a fan of that resolution. The TV only cost me $750USD, very cheap compared to most others I've seen.

I'm sure it looks fine for some stuff but not for others, especially if you know what to look for. I think a good way to see the difference is to fire up an emulator and toggle bilinear filtering.

Is that still the case for 4k monitors, though? I'm looking at buying one of those Acer Predator monitors for my old-school setup, and I'm hoping it's not garbage-tier like the rest of the 4k shit tends to be.

Crazy to me how displays have just gotten worse and worse for actual legitimate video games.

I dunno about monitors. This is new info to me

 

[D.Lo]

I'm sure it looks fine for some stuff but not for others, especially if you know what to look for. I think a good way to see the difference is to fire up an emulator and toggle bilinear filtering.

That's possibly not applicable using a scaler though?

The scaling will be done by the screen on an already processed HD image. If using a framemeister the TV will only filter the 1080p output, it won't go 'inside' the 1080p resolution, and most it could only slightly soften the pixel edges.

Even from 720, it's only a 3X scale to UHD.