US Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders rallies |OT|

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SonnyBoy said:
What is the likelihood that Bernie and Hillary end up joining forces? They seemed awfully chummy.
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Not very. Bernie doesn't really bring a demographic or state that Hillary would need.

Plus the party would probably want a younger rising star rather than an old pseudo-Democrat on the ticket.
 
I mean it goes without saying Sanders will endorse her and stump for her on the trail once the primaries are over assuming she wins. He won't be the VP pick though, you try to balance the ticket with VP picks. She will go for someone younger.

Oh and NBC post-debate polling is out. Unsurprisingly like HuffPosts posted a few posts up they had Hillary winning the debate and receiving a boost in her overall poll numbers as well:
http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/why-fight-between-jeb-bush-marco-rubio-getting-ugly-n445866
 
I'm glad Sanders is in this race because it pushes Hillary, the media, and general public to focus on important issues from a more progressive/left pov.

It's my personal opinion that Sanders is unelectable (his presentation is just awful and we're too superficial to overlook that), but he might make Hillary a better nominee by staying around.
 
Bernie Sanders has rejected a political donation from Martin Shkreli, the drug company boss who tried to rise the price of an Aids and cancer drug by 5,455%.

“We are not keeping the money from this poster boy for drug company greed,” said the Democratic presidential hopeful’s spokesman Michael Briggs.

Shkreli’s $2,700 donation – the maximum individual contribution allowed – will be handed over to the Whitman-Walker health clinic in Washington, which specialises in treating HIV/Aids patients in the LGBT community.
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http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-donation-turing-ceo-martin-shkreli?CMP=fb_us
 
ponpo said:
Not a rally but his segment on Bill Maher

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDRxbQlpqmo
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I think it's great to see Bernie challenged by Bill - who had some legitimate questions about ideals and what it means to be socialist. I thought that Bernie's explanations did not stand up too well to adequately relieve Bill's concerns. Hopefully Bernie realizes that and learns from that experience as I really want Bernie to be the next president. His argument needs to be stronger so that folks aren't afraid of his ideals of democratic socialism - even though those same folks already live with some socialist services without being concious of it.
 
itchyass86 said:
I think it's great to see Bernie challenged by Bill - who had some legitimate questions about ideals and what it means to be socialist. I thought that Bernie's explanations did not stand up too well to adequately relieve Bill's concerns. Hopefully Bernie realizes that and learns from that experience as I really want Bernie to be the next president. His argument needs to be stronger so that folks aren't afraid of his ideals of democratic socialism - even though those same folks already live with some socialist services without being concious of it.
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Indeed. Sanders should be making it clear that democratic socialism is not the elimination of capitalism, but unfettered capitalism that guarantees a void for people to fall into. Our system is composed of a have/have not social game, and the have nots effectively fall into some layer under the earth.

A social democracy tries to keep the ground intact. This is such a simple point to be making that he's fucked it up two times this week, and it bothers me. His botches allow him to be seen as fringe socialism that make that term so offensive to people.

People naturally want a system where it works for everyone. The key is to make it clear that what we have now is how it naturally functions without any democratic socialism as a major pillar of application. Make unfettered capitalism into the social cancer it actually is.
 
Machina said:
Cold War era propaganda still holds sway even today and that won't change until that generation is gone forever.
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Even right now we are seeing Venezuela's economic collapse, so needs to be able to explain why his policies won't end up like that. Pointing to the Scandinavian countries is good but not enough.
 
uncelestial said:
Yikes, that was honestly pretty rough, and I'm saying that as a Bernie supporter. Bill was asking legit questions and I honestly don't feel like he got satisfactory answers and that Bernie was visibly flummoxed at points.
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Yeah, the obvious counterpoint to make to a lot of what Bill is saying is that the average (young) American under 30 owes around 30,000 dollars in student loans, and in the Healthcare exchanges most people are paying at least 100-200 dollars for basic coverage. And those costs continue to rise.

Under a public system those costs would disappear, but most people would probably need to pay a little more in taxes. That being said, the amount people would need to pay out in taxes would be less, you wouldn't get situations where people graduate with >50,000 of debt and little prospect of repaying it, and overall cost increases to society would be less.

Sanders needs to do a better job building a positive vision of what his ideas could accomplish for people rather just than reiterating a talking point about income inequality and corruption. I do think that talking point is important as a moral argument, but it can't be the only thing he talks about. Candidates need to be both positive and negative or they risk coming across as too narrow.

I'm not sure Bill's point about hospitals is correct if he is suggesting that Sanders needs to explicit include price controls in his plan, though. It should be possible for a monopolistic public insurer, or even a plan where Medicare acts as a robust public option, to reduce prices through sheer market power. The problem the single payer advocates ran into in Vermont was that the state is just too small in terms of population. That fact is actually funny because in the debate it sounds like the small size of Scandinavian countries like Denmark was used as a argument that their policies could not work in the U.S.. In the case of public health insure, just the opposite is the case. Bigger is better!
 
uncelestial said:
Yikes, that was honestly pretty rough, and I'm saying that as a Bernie supporter. Bill was asking legit questions and I honestly don't feel like he got satisfactory answers and that Bernie was visibly flummoxed at points.
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Sanders fumbles badly on questions that he is uncomfortable with. This will continue over and over again until his staff addresses the issues and coaches him. His answer on socialism and VT healthcare were extremely poor. Maher was simply telling him how to educate the american people, instead of just saying "Denmark", but Sanders wasn't listening.

Sanders fans should be concerned about his unawareness on how he comes off when he gets asked certain questions about his policies or past.
 
Wall said:
Yeah, the obvious counterpoint to make to a lot of what Bill is saying is that the average (young) American under 30 owes around 30,000 dollars in student loans, and in the Healthcare exchanges most people are paying at least 100-200 dollars for basic coverage. And those costs continue to rise.

Under a public system those costs would disappear, but most people would probably need to pay a little more in taxes. That being said, the amount people would need to pay out in taxes would be less, you wouldn't get situations where people graduate with >50,000 of debt and little prospect of repaying it, and overall cost increases to society would be less.

Sanders needs to do a better job building a positive vision of what his ideas could accomplish for people rather just than reiterating a talking point about income inequality and corruption. I do think that talking point is important as a moral argument, but it can't be the only thing he talks about. Candidates need to be both positive and negative or they risk coming across as too narrow.

I'm not sure Bill's point about hospitals is correct if he is suggesting that Sanders needs to explicit include price controls in his plan, though. It should be possible for a monopolistic public insurer, or even a plan where Medicare acts as a robust public option, to reduce prices through sheer market power. The problem the single payer advocates ran into in Vermont was that the state is just too small in terms of population. That fact is actually funny because in the debate it sounds like the small size of Scandinavian countries like Denmark was used as a argument that their policies could not work in the U.S.. In the case of public health insure, just the opposite is the case. Bigger is better!
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I have consistently had to deal with family members saying we are literally too big of a place to deal with the college, income, and health care problems. People think we're too big to engage anything on such a scale, when it fact the only way we're going to get any major efforts done is through macro-level application.

While we are unfortunately decades from this being pushed towards a basic income system, leaving it to states leaves them at risk to accept poverty as a natural phenomena, while if we tackle it federally on some level makes us accept poverty in the developed world is the result of terribly ascribed ideas. This also applies to health care and minimum wage right now where states can refuse medicaid expansion and keeping their minimum wages low, creating a very large have/have not divide. Both of those will feed into "earning" health care and wages, as if one has free will and is a doer of deeds, let alone that being an acceptable answer to a non-starting approach.
 
Hillary Clinton Got The Biggest Post-Debate Polling Bounce

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/hillary-clinton-got-the-biggest-post-debate-polling-bounce/

All told, Clinton has averaged 59 percent to Sanders’s 27 percent in national polls without Biden since the debate. In an average of all polls without Biden in the month before the debate, Clinton was at 53 percent to Sanders’s 29 percent.

Clinton has also gotten a boost in New Hampshire, home to the first primary. New Hampshire has been a weak spot for Clinton. She hadn’t led in a single New Hampshire poll taken in August or September. In fact, Sanders was up by an average of 43 percent to 35 percent in the month before the debate.3 In five New Hampshire polls taken since the Oct. 13 debate, Clinton has led in three to Sanders’s two. On average, they’re essentially tied: Sanders is at 40.6 percent to Clinton’s 40.2 percent.

If Sanders falls behind in New Hampshire, it will be very bad news for his campaign. Not only is New Hampshire right next door to Sanders’s home state, Vermont, it’s also filled with his base voters: white liberals. If Clinton wins New Hampshire, it’s probably a sign that Sanders won’t be competitive in most states outside of Vermont.

CHANGE IN CANDIDATE SUPPORT, PRE- TO POST-DEBATE
POLLSTER CLINTON SANDERS
ABC/Washington Post +11 -4
CNN/ORC -1 +5
Emerson +15 -9
Monmouth +4 -5
Morning Consult +2 +2
NBC/WSJ +5 -5
Average +6.0 -2.7
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Since the debate Hillary has risen in the polls by an average of 6% and Sanders has fallen by an average of 2.7%. A roughly 9% swing towards Clinton.
 
Definitely a bummer for me as a big Sanders fan, but one can't deny that Hillary knows how to fight better than most. If Sanders can't make any magic happen in the next debate, I expect his campaign to begin to fold. I've got no problem voting for Hillary, my interests are just more aligned with Sanders.
 
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Not very politically, but I thought it's cute.
 
Bernie's bad few week just don't see to be turning around. You don't go to a JJ Iowa event and attack the other candidates and leave before everyone speaks. What a major mess-up in planning this was. The JJ dinner is not a spot to give a canned stump speech, let alone with inter-party attacks. It's a tradition to build up the local Iowa Democratic party and celebrate the tradition. NYTimes ripped into him pretty hard for it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/26/u...ives-home-hillary-clintons-focus-on-iowa.html
But Democrats got a reminder that Mr. Sanders, an independent and self-described democratic socialist, is not a member of their party. As Mrs. Clinton began her remarks well into the evening, hundreds of his supporters left the building to catch waiting buses or attend parties. It offended the polite sensibilities of some Iowans, and was a reminder of why he may find it difficult to appeal to the sort of mainline party activists who have backed the eventual Democratic nominee in all the contested caucuses here since 2000.

“Are the Sanders folks going to walk out on the Democrats if he’s not the nominee?” John Deeth, a liberal blogger from Iowa City, pointedly asked on his way out of the dinner.

Unlike Mrs. Clinton and Martin O’Malley, the other Democratic presidential candidate at the dinner, Mr. Sanders offered no homage, or mention at all, of Mr. Biden, a well-liked figure in the party. And he delivered a speech that he could have given in any state, making little attempt to highlight Iowa issues. Mrs. Clinton, conversely, paid homage to Iowa Democrats by name and attacked Iowa Republicans on health care.

Mr. Sanders signaled on Saturday night that he was prepared to fight. He is said to have hired a pollster for the first time this campaign, and repeatedly struck notes about areas where Mrs. Clinton has changed positions. Mrs. Clinton’s advisers are girding for a better-prepared version of Mr. Sanders in the next debate.

But while Mr. Sanders did use his remarks to portray the Clintons as inconsistent progressives, he could not bring himself to confront her directly the way she confronted him in their debate this month. Nor did he raise the issue of gun control, which Mrs. Clinton and Mr. O’Malley discussed and which polls show could hurt Mr. Sanders in Iowa. (Mrs. Clinton’s Iowa brochure now includes “Acting on Gun Violence” as one of four issue priorities.)

A Clinton triumph in Iowa could hasten the end of the Democratic primary season. Even if Mr. Sanders won in New Hampshire, the Clinton forces would seek to frame that victory as an anomaly resulting from his hailing from a neighboring state and New Hampshire’s traditional affection for insurgents.

The political dynamic that has elevated Iowa, the state that haunted Mrs. Clinton’s White House ambitions eight years ago, could now pave her way to the nomination. The difference now, say Mrs. Clinton’s supporters, is that “she’s not running against Obama,” as Iowa’s attorney general, Tom Miller, put it. “That was a magical campaign eight years ago.”
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I agree with everything Bernie said there, but at the same time we need to stand against the inequalities that the muslim word contains. Its a very complex world, and it is mostly over there that it is a slushpool. However Muslims in America have done amazing integrating, and all the Muslim people I have met have been great people. Its a shame that the country has issues with this. Yes we need to stand for Muslims but we also need to stand and make sure they get equalities that sometimes their religion doesn't offer. I'm not talking about Attire they were. If a woman here in America wants to where her traditional attire, I have no issue with it. But if it is forced on her, I do.
 
In case anyone hasn't seen this yet:



https://secure.actblue.com/contribute/page/bernies-book?refcode=em151104EL-full

About two decades ago, long before I ever imagined I would campaign for the presidency, I wrote a book titled Outsider in the House about how we used the authority extended from my electoral victories to make changes for the better in the lives of people who don’t have many allies in positions of power.

My decision to run for president was inspired by the events outlined in that book, and if you really want to understand what this campaign is about and how we will leverage our political revolution to create real change after I’m elected, then you should read it.

Because I think it’s important, I want to try something pretty wild here:

For a very limited time, make a contribution to our campaign — of any amount — and we’ll send you a recently released updated version of my book, now titled Outsider in the White House.

This book is not the story of easy or steady success — it is a story of struggle and hard work. It’s about a little progress in the right direction and then a setback; it’s about election defeats and election wins, and it’s about breakthroughs that few of us had imagined possible ... until they happened.

I hope you’ll take me up on this offer.

In solidarity,

Bernie Sanders

https://secure.actblue.com/contribute/page/bernies-book?refcode=em151104EL-full
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I actually just bought this on Amazon a week ago but w/e, just donated $27.65 (1 cent more than the average contribution).
 
I think Bernie is going to be at the concert too since he just finished his rally.

special musical guests including Vampire Weekend, Foster The People, Jill Sobule, Awful Purdies, Kay Hanley, Michelle Lewis, actor Josh Hutcherson, comics The Lucas Brothers and more for a performance and rally in Iowa City.
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pZFIlXH.png
 
I'm guessing Sanders must be doing pretty good since I'm seeing threads from the usual suspects over here about how shitty he and his supporters are nearly every day now
 
Gestahl said:
I'm guessing Sanders must be doing pretty good since I'm seeing threads from the usual suspects over here about how shitty he and his supporters are nearly every day now
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While there are bad Sanders fans, the poligaf thread is horrible now. It's just filled with Clinton-stans shitting on anything Sanders related (and vice versa as well).

Can't wait until the general, tbh.
 
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