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[Jinfash]

My new Kindle got delivered last night. FML.

 

[The Omega Man]

no more in-flight entertainment just look straight to the back of the seat in front of you.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

UK too

UK 'to follow US flight ban on laptops'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39343971

Fucking shite. Was looking forward to using my Switch on my next trip.

 

[m_shortpants]

This has nothing to do with terrorism.

This is 100% a way to impact the large middle eastern airlines like Emirates and Etihad which are taking market share away from US airlines.

If there was a clear threat from these so called devices, then why not apply the rules to all airlines? Or every flight coming to the US?

It's no coincidence that the leaders and executives of the large US airlines met with Trump a few weeks ago and complained about losing to Etihad/Emirates which are state-sponsored and are more competitively priced.

Everything is a ruse.

 

[M3d10n]

But battery powered devices aren't allowed in checked baggage, so would this effectively ban laptops and tablets from being transported in commercial flights?

 

[Jinfash]

But battery powered devices aren't allowed in checked baggage, so would this effectively ban laptops and tablets from being transported in commercial flights?

Wasn't aware of that. But good question. :/

 

[danowat]

no more in-flight entertainment just look straight to the back of the seat in front of you.

I mean, we used to manage quite well before personal electronic devices.........

 

[IdreamofHIME]

This has nothing to do with terrorism.

This is 100% a way to impact the large middle eastern airlines like Emirates and Etihad which are taking market share away from US airlines.

If there was a clear threat from these so called devices, then why not apply the rules to all airlines? Or every flight coming to the US?

It's no coincidence that the leaders and executives of the large US airlines met with Trump a few weeks ago and complained about losing to Etihad/Emirates which are state-sponsored and are more competitively priced.

Everything is a ruse.

Except other countries are now joing the ban.

 

[Dougald]

I mean, we used to manage quite well before personal electronic devices.........

Trump/May own shares in Waterstones/Barnes & Noble confirmed

 

[IdreamofHIME]

But battery powered devices aren't allowed in checked baggage, so would this effectively ban laptops and tablets from being transported in commercial flights?

That depends on the airline. Definitely not banned on Qatar Airways flights...At the moment.

 

[Purkake4]

I can understand the business use concerns, but I don't think being forced to use *only* your phone for entertainment is a fate worse than death...

 

[Pixieking]

hahaha oh dear. Good luck with that! You know you can still take them with you via checked baggage right? Because we ALL KNOW that airline baggage handlers will take good care of your luggage.

Yeahhhhhh... I'm already looking at flight insurance. :'(

 

[SKINNER!]

I can understand the business use concerns, but I don't think being forced to use *only* your phone for entertainment is a fate worse than death...

Personally, I tend to avoid using my phone and use a tablet instead for entertainment purposes as phone battery life is very precious especially if I need it to get map info or call someone once I get off the plane. Thankfully, I invested in one of those battery packs so I'm covered in case my phone runs out of juice but if they start banning those portable battery devices too then - oh boy! - I better get used to shitty censored airline movies.

 

[SKINNER!]

Yeahhhhhh... I'm already looking at flight insurance. :'(

Flight insurance companies AND US airline companies in cahoots with the Trump/May administration to take down those pesky cheap immigrant non white Arab/Muslim airlines and their affordable prices for travel to the US and UK.

 

[distantmantra]

Personally, I tend to avoid using my phone and use a tablet instead for entertainment purposes as phone battery life is very precious especially if I need it to get map info or call someone once I get off the plane. Thankfully, I invested in one of those battery packs so I'm covered in case my phone runs out of juice but if they start banning those portable battery devices too then - oh boy! - I better get used to shitty censored airline movies.

Don't your flights have USB ports and/or power outlets at each seat?

 

[Jaguar King]

the fucked up thing is some airliners like Saudi Airline do not allow having any lithium battery powered devices in their checked in bags, because it may start a fire without anybody noticing it.

which means I cannot even bring my own laptop or my Switch to the US.

fucked up and disgusting

 

[SKINNER!]

Don't your flights have USB ports and/or power outlets at each seat?

Some do. Some don't. Some are great. Some are broken. Some don't deliver enough power to charge your phone completely. Some may not even be able to charge your phone if you're on it watching videos, playing games on it etc.

EDIT: I've never seen a power plug socket in an airplane.

 

[Totakeke]

US airlines are not affected because they don't offer direct flights, so does that mean they do stop at these airports but don't take any passengers from these airports en route to US? That's weird.

 

[distantmantra]

Some do. Some don't. Some are great. Some are broken. Some don't deliver enough power to charge your phone completely. Some may not even be able to charge your phone if you're on it watching videos, playing games on it etc.

EDIT: I've never seen a power plug socket in an airplane.

Delta has power outlets in addition to USB ports on some newer planes. I've had them flying internationally (Amsterdam, Barcelona and Tokyo) as well as domestic.

I think Alaska Airlines has them as well, can't remember for sure.

 

[RedNalgene]

Read the Washington Post article:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...irlines-heres-the-underlying-story/?tid=sm_fb

This is seemingly a direct attack on the subsidies Middle East countries give their airlines and goes back to this "US protectionism" that Trump is instituting. It affects both direct and indirect flights originating out of those countries.

It may not be about security. Three of the airlines that have been targeted for these measures — Emirates, Etihad Airways and Qatar Airways — have long been accused by their U.S. competitors of receiving massive effective subsidies from their governments. These airlines have been quietly worried for months that President Trump was going to retaliate. This may be the retaliation.

As the Financial Times notes, the order doesn’t affect only the airlines’ direct flights to and from the United States — it attacks the “hub” airports that are at the core of their business models. These airlines not only fly passengers directly from the Gulf region to the United States — they also fly passengers from many other destinations, transferring them from one plane to another in the hubs. This “hub and spoke” approach is a standard economic model for long-haul airlines, offering them large savings. However, it also creates big vulnerabilities. If competitors or unfriendly states can undermine or degrade the hub, they can inflict heavy economic damage.

 

[entremet]

This guys just doesn't quit. That's what makes Trump dangerous. He's rather tenacious.

 

[pelicansurf]

This is disgusting. Do you expect people to just stare at the seat in front of them for 12+ hours?

I'm traveling to Germany this summer and will literally lose it if this starts expanding to other countries. They seriously want to insulate the US from other countries.

 

[LyleLanley]

This is disgusting. Do you expect people to just stare at the seat in front of them for 12+ hours?

I'm traveling to Germany this summer and will literally lose it if this starts expanding to other countries. They seriously want to insulate the US from other countries.

You can still use your phone and any inflight entertainment provided by the airlines.

 

[Tom Nook]

So much of playing Switch on the plane that Nintendo advertise.....

 

[Dougald]

https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/844220046155173890

Government has agreed additional security measures for direct flights to UK from Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Tunisia and Saudi Arabia

Sounds like the UK ban is less comprehensive. UAE notably absent there.

 

[SKINNER!]

https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/844220046155173890



Sounds like the UK ban is less comprehensive. UAE notably absent there.

But phones are banned. Unlike US.

 

[Dougald]

But phones are banned. Unlike US.

If their dimensions exceed 16cmx9.3cmx1.5cm, so even an iPhone 7+ would be okay

At least the British government seems to be providing some sort of spec rather than the wishy-washy American "larger than a phone"

(sidenote, the BBCs method of editing their articles piecemeal is terrible, that link is still fairly unreadable)

 

[FrankCanada97]

This has nothing to do with terrorism.

This is 100% a way to impact the large middle eastern airlines like Emirates and Etihad which are taking market share away from US airlines.

If there was a clear threat from these so called devices, then why not apply the rules to all airlines? Or every flight coming to the US?

It's no coincidence that the leaders and executives of the large US airlines met with Trump a few weeks ago and complained about losing to Etihad/Emirates which are state-sponsored and are more competitively priced.

Everything is a ruse.

If you're talking about direct flights from the US to the middle-east, than the American air carriers' market share is currently zero. Plus some of middle-eastern airlines are part of the same airline alliance as the the US ones. Anything that would affect the business of middle-eastern airlines would probably affect the business of other members of the alliance as well.

 

[Ravensmash]

If it were to do with business rather than a threat or security issue, then this would get overturned in a court pretty quickly right?

Not that I believe that's necessarily the case atm.

 

[Cronen]

BBC article has been updated now with further details.

The UK has announced a cabin baggage ban on laptops on passenger flights from Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Tunisia and Saudi Arabia.

The restrictions, which also apply to tablets, DVD players and phones over a certain size, follow a similar US ban affecting eight countries.

Downing Street said they followed talks on air security and were "necessary, effective and proportionate". US officials said bombs could be hidden in a series of devices.

The six affected UK carriers are:
British Airways
EasyJet
Jet2.com
Monarch
Thomas Cook
Thomson

The eight overseas airlines subject to the ban are:
Turkish Airlines
Pegasus Airways
Atlas-Global Airlines
Middle East Airlines
Egyptair
Royal Jordanian,
Tunis Air
Saudia

A UK government spokesperson said: "Decisions to make changes to our aviation security regime are never taken lightly.
"We will not hesitate to act in order to maintain the safety of the travelling public and we will work closely with our international partners to minimise any disruption these new measures may cause."

 

[Piggus]

The thread title says 13 countries, but everywhere I'm seeing says 8. Could someone please update the title, or at least add the correct info to the OP?

 

[Pyroclastic]

Maybe this is a test pilot initiative to see if people will go back to reading more books.

but what if they all just read the Koran and nothing else?

DUN DUN DUN

 

[Audioboxer]

Aeroplanes are just supposed to get you from A to B, it's not long to preoccupy yourself with something. Even if you fly a lot, read a book or listen to some music/podcasts from your phone. As technology gets more advanced I guess this was always going to be a "battle" humanity would face on flights.

I'm not sure if this will be the best solution at the end of the day, but let experts and security try whatever they need to and hopefully learn in the process. So many people act like security around aeroplanes is "lol easy".

I know scanners (x-ray) are supposed to do the bulk of the job checking out electronic equipment, but often they rely on human judgement and/or machine judgement which isn't always perfect. Bans are often the "nuclear" option to take 99.9% certainty to 100%. From what I've seen your laptops and larger electronics can still go in the hold.

 

[NekoFever]

If their dimensions exceed 16cmx9.3cmx1.5cm, so even an iPhone 7+ would be okay

At least the British government seems to be providing some sort of spec rather than the wishy-washy American "larger than a phone"

(sidenote, the BBCs method of editing their articles piecemeal is terrible, that link is still fairly unreadable)

Yeah, I've been looking at those dimensions to get an idea of size. It's basically slightly bigger than an iPhone 7 Plus. The standard Kindle would make it if it was a bit narrower. I can't find any tablets that get under that size.

 

[Beer Monkey]

If putting a bomb in an iPad and having it pass screening is a real thing, them going off in a plane is going to happen unless you ban them from all flights.

 

[Audioboxer]

If putting a bomb in an iPad and having it pass screening is a real thing, them going off in a plane is going to happen unless you ban them from all flights.

I think it's two-fold, hoping 99.9% accuracy in scanning/searching electronic devices coupled with a user not being able to use/interact will lead to 100% certainty. A lot of devices that could be used to cause harm, destruction or some sort of interference will need to be operated by a human, largely speaking. Separating devices from the user to the cargo hold means no interaction, so even if something slips through it's not doing much on its own in a cargo hold.

Of course, mobile phones pretty much are computers these days. Technology is what it is and I think security is just trying to appear like they're being even "safer". Some of safety in the eyes of the public is appearing to be doing things, along with obviously doing things.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Aeroplanes are just supposed to get you from A to B, it's not long to preoccupy yourself with something. Even if you fly a lot, read a book or listen to some music/podcasts from your phone. As technology gets more advanced I guess this was always going to be a "battle" humanity would face on flights.

I'm not sure if this will be the best solution at the end of the day, but let experts and security try whatever they need to and hopefully learn in the process. So many people act like security around aeroplanes is "lol easy".

I know scanners (x-ray) are supposed to do the bulk of the job checking out electronic equipment, but often they rely on human judgement and/or machine judgement which isn't always perfect. Bans are often the "nuclear" option to take 99.9% certainty to 100%. From what I've seen your laptops and larger electronics can still go in the hold.

There is no defense for dumbshit bans like this. Especially since it is obviously aimed at brown people only. It's racist.

 

[Grym]

I guess it makes sense to me if it is an attack/response to governments that are subsidizing airlines. "Compete fairly or we'll do our best to throw a wrench in your schemes" (And it may work if enough countries jump in and do the same)

As a security measure though, I just don't understand. Especially if the device is still on the plane.

I think it's two-fold, hoping 99.9% accuracy in scanning/searching electronic devices coupled with a user not being able to use/interact will lead to 100% certainty. A lot of devices that could be used to cause harm, destruction or some sort of interference will need to be operated by a human, largely speaking. Separating devices from the user to the cargo hold means no interaction, so even if something slips through it's not doing much on its own in a cargo hold.

Of course, mobile phones pretty much are computers these days. Technology is what it is and I think security is just trying to appear like they're being even "safer". Some of safety in the eyes of the public is appearing to be doing things, along with obviously doing things.

Still doesn't make sense. Then I just fly from Egypt to France. And then book a flight to the US. I just don't see how this enhances security.

 

[Anion]

This has everything to do with money

 

[Audioboxer]

There is no defense for dumbshit bans like this. Especially since it is obviously aimed at brown people only. It's racist.

If you say so, but a lot of security is reactionary, so something happens from somewhere and intelligence services "panic" to appear like they've got it covered.

The BBC home affairs correspondent Daniel Sandford says the move was "obviously part of co-ordinated action with the US".

The attempted downing of an airliner in Somalia last year was linked to a laptop device, and it appears the security precautions are an attempt to stop similar incidents, our correspondent added.

But the Department of Homeland Security said extremists were seeking "innovative methods" to bring down jets.

In a statement, it said the US government was "concerned about terrorists' ongoing interest in targeting commercial aviation, including transportation hubs over the past two years"
.
Citing the Somalia incident in February 2016, as well as the 2015 downing of a Russian airline in Egypt and attacks at airports in Brussels and Istanbul, it added: "Evaluated intelligence indicates that terrorist groups continue to target commercial aviation, to include smuggling explosive devices in various consumer items."

I guess it makes sense to me if it is an attack/response to governments that are subsidizing airlines. "Compete fairly or we'll do our best to throw a wrench in your schemes" (And it may work if enough countries jump in and do the same)

As a security measure though, I just don't understand. Especially if the device is still on the plane.



Still doesn't make sense. Then I just fly from Egypt to France. And then book a flight to the US. I just don't see how this enhances security.

Depends on how a device can be used. If it arguably needs user interaction to be of any use in causing an incident, separating it from a user could be deemed a viable approach. As technology advances though I'm struggling to see what is really the big difference between a phone and a laptop. Unless it's based purely on dimensions, size and capability to be internally modded. Obviously, phones are often packed in and have zero room inside for tinkering. Laptops can have removable drives, some space and arguably more room for modding.

Normally scanning and/or switching on of devices can do some checking. Although, privacy rights will often lead to a device once it's on not actually being searchable if I'm getting my laws right. In other words I'm pretty certain you can refuse to allow access to your device. Logic would think that would end up with a result for it to be placed in the hold instead? I don't know enough there about airport security and what they are or aren't able to ask of a passenger. Pretty certain privacy rights are in your control, but ultimately security can deny something being allowed on a flight, or requesting it goes in your suitcase and into the hold.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

If you say so, but a lot of security is reactionary, so something happens from somewhere and intelligence services "panic" to appear like they've got it covered.

This is nothing more than racist security theater. If there were actual legit means for putting bombs in electronics, all would be banned no matter the origin.

And unless there were specific threats from every one of these 13 countries of bombs being in electronics, then it's bullshit. It's like you don't see what this administration has done or attempted to do against brown people. They have not deserved nor do they get the benefit of the doubt here.

 

[Jinfash]

Is this effective for flights originating from the mentioned airports and airlines, regardless of passenger nationality, or is nationality a factor?

 

[MaxSnake1]

Aeroplanes are just supposed to get you from A to B, it's not long to preoccupy yourself with something. Even if you fly a lot, read a book or listen to some music/podcasts from your phone. As technology gets more advanced I guess this was always going to be a "battle" humanity would face on flights.

I'm not sure if this will be the best solution at the end of the day, but let experts and security try whatever they need to and hopefully learn in the process. So many people act like security around aeroplanes is "lol easy".

I know scanners (x-ray) are supposed to do the bulk of the job checking out electronic equipment, but often they rely on human judgement and/or machine judgement which isn't always perfect. Bans are often the "nuclear" option to take 99.9% certainty to 100%. From what I've seen your laptops and larger electronics can still go in the hold.

If this ban is not a raciest then it should be an international ban on all flights to and from US\UK with world, not for specific countries who "coincidentally" happens to be a middle eastern.

 

[jaxpunk]

This is disgusting. Do you expect people to just stare at the seat in front of them for 12+ hours?

I'm traveling to Germany this summer and will literally lose it if this starts expanding to other countries. They seriously want to insulate the US from other countries.

lol "literally lose it"

Maybe you should get that looked into before you get on a plane for 12 hours and inflict yourself to others in a tube in the sky.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

Phew, Qatar not in the UK list.
My brother is taking the kids to Turkey next month though, good fucking luck on that flight with no iPads or 3DS's. 😱

 

[Palette Swap]

Whatever the reason, that's another really fucking dumb self-inflicted wound.

 

[Piggus]

This is disgusting. Do you expect people to just stare at the seat in front of them for 12+ hours?

I'm traveling to Germany this summer and will literally lose it if this starts expanding to other countries. They seriously want to insulate the US from other countries.

Believe it or not, people at one point flew on planes without any electronics. I know, I was shocked too when I found out!

This legislation is dumb as hell, but at least you still get your phone. You're not going to be staring at the seat in front of you (unless there's an entertainment hub there, which most long flights have now).

 

[One Eyed Willy]

Must have gotten wind of something specific.

100% this

 

[Audioboxer]

This is nothing more than racist security theater. If there were actual legit means for putting bombs in electronics, all would be banned no matter the origin.

And unless there were specific threats from every one of these 13 countries of bombs being in electronics, then it's bullshit. It's like you don't see what this administration has done or attempted to do against brown people. They have not deserved nor do they get the benefit of the doubt here.

If this ban is not a raciest then it should be an international ban on all flights to and from US\UK with world, not for specific countries who "coincidentally" happens to be a middle eastern.

As I said security is often reactionary (after something occurs) and/or based around laws of averages (where most incidents occur from). You might not like me saying this but go and do research as to where most aviation security incidents have occurred in our lifetimes. Intelligence services aren't going to spend the same time, money and effort focussing on global affairs in places which have had low incident rates or none.

This isn't always a case of "equality". It's intelligence and security and like it or not reports of potential threats may be more concentrated from certain sources than others. That's the real world, and life in general. If you were in charge of aviation intelligence services and thought your efforts would be best focussed on threats coming from Norway, then fair enough, but history, stats and current day intelligence probably isn't suggesting Norway is a big threat to international flights. It is targeting of countries, but it's supposed to be based on intelligence and credible threat levels, that's where we are suppose to have impartial security forces.

For what it's worth I do think the day approaches where all large scale electronics will be banned on all flights.

 

[Silver Arrows]

As I said security is often reactionary (after something occurs) and/or based around laws of averages (where most incidents occur from). You might not like me saying this but go and do research as to where most aviation security incidents have occurred in our lifetimes. Intelligence services aren't going to spend the same time, money and effort focussing on global affairs in places which have had low incident rates or none.

This isn't always a case of "equality". It's intelligence and security and like it or not reports of potential threats may be more concentrated from certain sources than others. That's the real world, and life in general. If you were in charge of aviation intelligence services and thought your efforts would be best focussed on threats coming from Norway, then fair enough, but history, stats and current day intelligence probably isn't suggesting Norway is a big threat to international flights. It is targeting of countries, but it's supposed to be based on intelligence and credible threat levels, that's where we are suppose to have impartial security forces.

For what it's worth I do think the day approaches where all large scale electronics will be banned on all flights.

if you seriously believe this, considering what the Trump administration has done in regards to not wanting those big bad brown people on their shores, then I don't know what to say