US jobs gap between young and old is widest ever

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Wool said:
I've been feeling this way for a long time now, and not just because of all the economy issues. All of their preaching about how the 60's were the best time ever and the Beatles were the best band ever is getting old. News flash: every generation thinks what they did when they were young was the best thing ever. Obviously I'm generalizing, but I think us 20-somethings do have reasons to be bitter.
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Yeah, but they hated their preceding generation too. And believe me, our kids will find SOMETHING to hate on our generation about.
 
Instead of blaming the baby boomers, our students should work harder to acquire more skills and abilities. I worked (hard) all throughout the end of HS and college, and now I earn a comfortable living, bought a new car and paid it, put 20% down on a house, no personal debt.

I know a crapton of people around me who either:
- Made a poor choice in their degree
- Put partying before anything else
- Have either not had a job at all, or an extreme part time job that doesn't require "skill"

Then they blame it all on the man. Am I going to deny that things are worse than before? Not at all. However, if I'm a hiring manager (which I am) and there's a bunch of guys in their 30s or 40s who have more skill, and motivation in the form of a family that will enable him to work harder. Who would you choose?

Hopefully, we can make the necessary evolution to account for all the new technology and processes. Either way, there's way too many college kids that have no worth to the workforce. There are other options, such as taking up a trade., which no one seems to do anymore.

The baby boomers were taught work ethic. We are taught to bitch and moan about it on twitter and facebook. Real productive society...
 
entrement said:
Vote mothafuckers!

I was so upset of the low turnout rate in the midterm election amongst young voters. Keep letting grandma out vote you she keeps her medicare while your financial aid is slashed.
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It's a sad truth. The young will never have a voice as long as they chose to stay silent by not voting.
 
teruterubozu said:
Yeah, but they hated their preceding generation too. And believe me, our kids will find SOMETHING to hate on our generation about.
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The Baby Boomers never fought in any wars. Bought their houses for 70k and sold them 20 years later for 370k while somehow filing more bankruptcies and racking up more credit card debt than any other generation could dream of. Ruined sex for everyone in the future by spreading every disease imaginable. Invented disco. Decry younger generations for laziness when they had the good fortune to come of age in a ridiculously good job and housing market - then when they became the bosses they stopped giving out raises and caused the greatest financial collapse in history.

What is there to like about them? Seriously.
 
It kinda sucks that a lot of entry level positions are hard to come across because most startups or companies want experienced people to push out more products for more $$.

That being said, I'm sure there are a good portion of grads who sit around waiting for stuff to come to them instead of taking the initiative because they in some way feel entitled.
 
dave is ok said:
The Baby Boomers never fought in any wars. Bought their houses for 70k and sold them 20 years later for 370k while somehow filing more bankruptcies and racking up more credit card debt than any other generation could dream of. Ruined sex for everyone in the future by spreading every disease imaginable. Invented disco. Decry younger generations for laziness when they had the good fortune to come of age in a ridiculously good job and housing market - then when they became the bosses they stopped giving out raises and caused the greatest financial collapse in history.

What is there to like about them? Seriously.
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I don't know, when the new generation looks back at the "Occupy/iPad" generation, I wonder what they'll surmise.
Anyway, I thought Vietnam was squarely within the Baby Boomer generation.
 
Captain Sparrow said:
Instead of blaming the baby boomers, our students should work harder to acquire more skills and abilities. I worked (hard) all throughout the end of HS and college, and now I earn a comfortable living, bought a new car and paid it, put 20% down on a house, no personal debt.

I know a crapton of people around me who either:
- Made a poor choice in their degree
- Put partying before anything else
- Have either not had a job at all, or an extreme part time job that doesn't require "skill"

Then they blame it all on the man. Am I going to deny that things are worse than before? Not at all. However, if I'm a hiring manager (which I am) and there's a bunch of guys in their 30s or 40s who have more skill, and motivation in the form of a family that will enable him to work harder. Who would you choose?

Hopefully, we can make the necessary evolution to account for all the new technology and processes. Either way, there's way too many college kids that have no worth to the workforce. There are other options, such as taking up a trade., which no one seems to do anymore.

The baby boomers were taught work ethic. We are taught to bitch and moan about it on twitter and facebook. Real productive society...
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Get off your damned high horse. Yes we all know it's possible to still work hard and get somewhere. No one's denying it's a possibility, but just because you did it doesn't mean every single other person can. I don't personally blame the baby boomers. I point this stuff out as problems that need to be addressed asap or else we'll have further problems. Just because you made it or some other people made it isn't an excuse to look at these problems and dismiss them.

The thing is that you can't cling to anecdotal evidence that people are people lazy and claim they just have to deal with it when faced with statistics like these. When a problem becomes so big that it's a large statistic like what's being posted, then it's no longer a problem on the person to person basis only. It's a systematic and societal problem that we all have to figure out.

I realize you're not out of hand dismissing these things, but the "evidence" you show tends to make others lean that way. That evidence doesn't help things at all. You need to go further than that. FIRST, you need to figure out if the accusations you put out there are even statistically significant in the grand scheme of things and how much they actually contribute to the statistics laid out in the OP and elsewhere. THEN, you need to go further than that even.

If so many people made poor choices in their degree, why?
If so many people put partying before anything else, why?
If so many have either not had a job at all or an extreme part time job that doesn't require skill, why? (Ok the answer to this one is the recession)

But anyway, once you answer why, then you need to go further and figure out how you can fix that statistic.
 
teruterubozu said:
I don't know, when the new generation looks back at the "Occupy/iPad" generation, I wonder what they'll surmise.
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At least the Occupy/iPad generation had two decade long wars under their belt, and literally could not file bankruptcy to get rid of their giant student loans ( due to a rule that I'm sure a Baby Boomer created)
 
teruterubozu said:
I don't know, when the new generation looks back at the "Occupy/iPad" generation, I wonder what they'll surmise.
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I imagine we'll end up like the Lost Generation of the 20-30's. A lot of war vets with PTSD and a crushing economic condition that robbed us of a good 10 years of career development
 
dave is ok said:
At least the Occupy/iPad generation had two decade long wars under their belt, and literally could not file bankruptcy to get rid of their giant student loans ( due to a rule that I'm sure a Baby Boomer created)
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I'm just saying I wonder what they'll surmise, like the way you succinctly surmised the Baby Boomer generation. I mean, it's what we do - generalize generations.
 
icarus-daedelus said:
You don't think it's a little sad that the military is the only path in America where young, poor folk are guaranteed employment with salary raises (however pathetic), paid OJT with no expectation of prior experience, health insurance, retirement after X amount of years, and the opportunity for an inexpensive education? This may sound like a greedy laundry list of expectations, but in other times and places it wasn't/isn't out of the realm of possibility.
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This definitely isn't a greedy list of expectations. The generations raising families back in the 70s could do this stuff just fine. Remember all the education they really needed was a high school diploma, and that was subsidized by the government. They didn't have to have a long list of prior experience. You just had to work hard and that was it.

I actually had a talk with my manager at my old job once. I was the hardest worker back in our deli, and I had a yearning to learn more and do more. I was someone they could count on for anything and everything, and I was a leader. I wanted to move up in the company. I wasn't picky, really. I just wanted to move up and learn more and do more. My manager told me straight out that it was sad that nowadays wasn't like when he was growing up. He just worked hard and they promoted him. He didn't graduate. He had no degree. He just worked as hard as I did, and they rewarded him. With me, he couldn't do that. His hands were tied. They needed not only a degree (which I had), but years of prior experience in managing and that sort of thing. People don't move up in companies anymore, really.
 
RDreamer said:
This definitely isn't a greedy list of expectations. The generations raising families back in the 70s could do this stuff just fine. Remember all the education they really needed was a high school diploma, and that was subsidized by the government. They didn't have to have a long list of prior experience. You just had to work hard and that was it.

I actually had a talk with my manager at my old job once. I was the hardest worker back in our deli, and I had a yearning to learn more and do more. I was someone they could count on for anything and everything, and I was a leader. I wanted to move up in the company. I wasn't picky, really. I just wanted to move up and learn more and do more. My manager told me straight out that it was sad that nowadays wasn't like when he was growing up. He just worked hard and they promoted him. He didn't graduate. He had no degree. He just worked as hard as I did, and they rewarded him. With me, he couldn't do that. His hands were tied. They needed not only a degree (which I had), but years of prior experience in managing and that sort of thing. People don't move up in companies anymore, really.
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I realize it's just a TV show but it was sort of shocking to me how quickly and easily the younger generation moved up in Mad Men. I thought surely this isn't realistic?
 
RDreamer said:
This definitely isn't a greedy list of expectations. The generations raising families back in the 70s could do this stuff just fine. Remember all the education they really needed was a high school diploma, and that was subsidized by the government. They didn't have to have a long list of prior experience. You just had to work hard and that was it.

I actually had a talk with my manager at my old job once. I was the hardest worker back in our deli, and I had a yearning to learn more and do more. I was someone they could count on for anything and everything, and I was a leader. I wanted to move up in the company. I wasn't picky, really. I just wanted to move up and learn more and do more. My manager told me straight out that it was sad that nowadays wasn't like when he was growing up. He just worked hard and they promoted him. He didn't graduate. He had no degree. He just worked as hard as I did, and they rewarded him. With me, he couldn't do that. His hands were tied. They needed not only a degree (which I had), but years of prior experience in managing and that sort of thing. People don't move up in companies anymore, really.
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The internet completely changed the job search/hiring mechanism in the US too. Back in the day you could just walk up to a business with resume in hand and have tremendously better odds. Today, the new resume spamming method is an awfully depressing way to look for jobs and does not inspire confidence in anyone. What we really need is a revolution in the antiquated Human Resources business.
 
I think an even bigger problem is the fact that because of the high costs of tuition and huge student loans, kids are far more hesitant to move out of their parents' house and try to take more risks like moving to a new place. I am of the mindset that if you took all that money saved by pulling out of the war in Iraq as we did and removing the tax deductions from the big money makers, and with that bail out the students, you'd see the economy improve dramatically as it would free up money to spend. More money in the economy = companies making a bigger profit = more jobs being made to compensate for the demand. It's basic math!
 
teruterubozu said:
I don't know, when the new generation looks back at the "Occupy/iPad" generation, I wonder what they'll surmise.
Anyway, I thought Vietnam was squarely within the Baby Boomer generation.
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Well, unless they stop making better and better handheld devices I doubt they would look scornfully on us for using iPads. I could see them being upset if we don't take care of environmental issues before they become bigger problem, but that's could be it's own thread.
 
empty vessel said:
My point is only that such expressions aren't helpful. And without tough demands, even modest reform will not be forthcoming. This is what the saying, "Be realistic. Demand the impossible" means.
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It doesn't matter what you demand or even what our entire generation demands. If Occupy and SOPA have taught anything it's that money and influence make a difference, not your damned opinion
 
I feel like people who continue to push the "If I can do it, anyone else can too!" line are labelling themselves as the lowest common denominator of society.
 
ElectricBlue187 said:
It doesn't matter what you demand or even what our entire generation demands. If Occupy and SOPA have taught anything it's that money and influence make a difference, not your damned opinion
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If everyone stopped working for a week this country would change in an instant, just saying. It's possible for people's opinions to carry weight but it has to be from everyone together, it's just unlikely because the majority are still apathetic and/or too worried and/or completely ignorant.

Then there's the violence/riot option, which may happen eventually if things go on as they are.
 
ElectricBlue187 said:
It doesn't matter what you demand or even what our entire generation demands. If Occupy and SOPA have taught anything it's that money and influence make a difference, not your damned opinion
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It takes more than opinion. It takes people on the streets making demands day after day. And thousands more than OWS ever marshaled. The lesson from OWS is not that opinions don't matter. It's that they need to be much louder and greater in number. I don't mean to say that this is the best way to effect change. I mean to say it is the only way. We have no choice if change is to come. With any luck, OWS is a mere stepping stone on the path to a huge mass movement that will fundamentally change our government.

SOPA taught us what we already know, that powerful interests (Silicon Valley) can influence legislation. We want to influence legislation outside of that paradigm, and that takes organized people taking to the streets and making demands. Poo-pooing good ideas as not viable is about the least helpful thing a person can do.
 
ElectricBlue187 said:
I realize it's just a TV show but it was sort of shocking to me how quickly and easily the younger generation moved up in Mad Men. I thought surely this isn't realistic?
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The managerial class of a company used to typically comprise of people who had worked at the company and showed hard work and an understanding of how the company and their market worked and got promoted. Nowadays it's more common for the managerial class of a company to come from outside and be hired directly into management positions.
 
teruterubozu said:
The internet completely changed the job search/hiring mechanism in the US too. Back in the day you could just walk up to a business with resume in hand and have tremendously better odds. Today, the new resume spamming method is an awfully depressing way to look for jobs and does not inspire confidence in anyone. What we really need is a revolution in the antiquated Human Resources business.
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THIS. My good friend has been out of work. Temp gigs here and there but nothing long term. It sucks because he doesn't have a degree and he's not the college type. He's a bright dude, but isn't suited for higher education.

He's not looking to make a shit ton of money. Just enough to live on. And just finding a retail job is a bitch for him. Can't afford a car. He made some mindblowingly poor decisions but should that fuck someone over for their rest of their existence? (no criminal history)
 
I updated my resume on Dice.com Tuesday, and by 9:00AM Wednesday I had three voicemails from headhunters and seven emails. I am so glad that these bad conditions haven't applied to my career because when I graduated I was pretty worried about it. Being unemployed is just about the worst feeling I ever had. Here I was, having blown five years and a lot of money getting an education and after I graduated I was sitting on my hands doing nothing with it for months.

Quite frankly though, I feel like it's not just the young that are effected. People that are older and are within 10 years of their retirements also seem to me like they do not have any luck getting jobs. They have so much experience that they fall in certain income levels that employers don't want to pay and they're too old to know a ton about the latest technologies. It seems like the only age group doing ok is 35-55 year olds.
 
RDreamer said:
Entry-level position. Temporary for only 3 months. Pay is 11 bucks an hour.

Requirements: 5 years experience.
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I freaking hated this. And then, those low-paying BS jobs had a ton of competition.
That's it, I'm voting for Mitt. He knows how to create jobz. Trickle Trickle!
 
KevinCow said:
Entry-level position

Requirements: 10 years experience.
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I have a part time job, but I've started looking for a full time in earnest again, and this is what keeps coming up.

I'd say another barrier, which hurts not only young grads, but the public at large, are computer applications. They make the application process impersonal, they take longer than traditional applications to fill out, require resumes written to computer term search algorithms rather than actual content, and are confusing for people who are computer illiterate.

Nobody should have to fill out a 45-minute application with a personality test to work retail.
 
Zzoram said:
Yep.

People born between 1980 and 1990 are the "fucked generation".
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Extend it back to about 1975 and I'm with you there. Born just a bit too late to get good jobs and cash in on the internet boom of the turn of the century, and too late to cash in on the early-2000s real estate boom, but still burdened by big college debt and very high unemployment before graduating. Baby boomer parents simply don't understand how hard it was and is to get a stable, well-paying job, and paid a tiny fraction of what post-mid-70s-born people are paying for their first homes.

Then when these parasites retire, we're in our prime working years and will be paying out the nose for their Social Security and all the medical benefits they've voted themselves in recent decades. I'm all in favor of helping the needy and "paying it forward", but this generational theft is getting ridiculous.
 
I work in NYC and the majority of my employed friends either founded their own startup or survive as "actors", sponsored by their families and side-hostessing jobs. It makes me feel lame about having a full-time office job at a top-level publisher, which, upon reflection, is kind of douchy of me.
 
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