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[empty vessel]

Because there is always something a person can do even with those so called powerful forces out there affecting the whole of society. I believe that a person can make something for themselves, even though it might be tough.

Then you believe in physical impossibilities. I can't put 32 oz of beer in a pint glass no matter how much I try. (And, believe me, I've tried.)

Yes, some individuals can indeed find jobs and even succeed in the current economic environment, that is undoubtedly true. What is not true is that everybody can. And if you go around telling every individual that they can find jobs and succeed, you will, in fact, be relaying false information.

 

[makingmusic476]

Because there is always something a person can do even with those so called powerful forces out there affecting the whole of society. I believe that a person can make something for themselves, even though it might be tough.

Instead, all I'm seeing is people crying that their parents lied to them about school and that their parents didn't want them working too hard flipping burgers. What did you guys expect? Your parents to predict the future and map out your entire life? Booo hooo, my parents were wrong about how my life turned out and now I'm just going to blame them for everything while crying my eyes out. Such an attitude is defeatist. Go do something about your life cause its your life.

These posts piss me off.

I'm in "take what I can get" mode. I have not been afraid to apply at pizza places or anything of the sort like you imply, but I'm still not getting calls.

I have certainly not given up, but I still don't have a job.

 

[state-of-the-art]

Because there is always something a person can do even with those so called powerful forces out there affecting the whole of society. I believe that a person can make something for themselves, even though it might be tough.

Instead, all I'm seeing is people crying that their parents lied to them about school and that their parents didn't want them working too hard flipping burgers. What did you guys expect? Your parents to predict the future and map out your entire life? Booo hooo, my parents were wrong about how my life turned out and now I'm just going to blame them for everything while crying my eyes out. Such an attitude is defeatist. Go do something about your life cause its your life.

Being contemptuousness and dismissive doesn't change the fact that we are clearly facing a structural crisis within the economy at large.

 

[faceless007]

However, some of it is on them as well, no matter how much some of you on Gaf try to refuse acknowledging. Young people need to be taught to make the right decisions about school, especially regarding loans. They also need to be taught about how to manage their own finances. For example, do you really need that new iPhone even though you might not be able to afford it? Remember, even if it's subsidized, that mandatory data plan can cost you a lot more than the phone is worth.

I find it interesting you insist that "some of the problem is on [the kids]," which I don't disagree with, but explain by describing what they "need to be taught." Yes, they do. Whose fault is it if no one does?

 

[faceless007]

Because there is always something a person can do even with those so called powerful forces out there affecting the whole of society. I believe that a person can make something for themselves, even though it might be tough.

If you were around then, how would you have told people during the Great Depression to make a living for themselves?

 

[Valhelm]

The 18-24 statistic seems really skewed. How common is it for pre-graduate students (as a large bulk of 18-24-year-olds are) to have jobs? Millions of people in that age group are still in high school, too.

 

[makingmusic476]

The 18-24 statistic seems really skewed. How common is it for pre-graduate students (as a large bulk of 18-24-year-olds are) to have jobs? Millions of people in that age group are still in high school, too.

I had a job pretty consistently before and throughout college, which I guess is somewhat ironic.

Some of my friends also had jobs, while some didn't, but I'm not sure if that's because they didn't want jobs.

 

[Zhengi]

Then you believe in physical impossibilities. I can't put 32 oz of beer in a pint glass no matter how much I try. (And, believe me, I've tried.)

Yes, some individuals can indeed find jobs and even succeed in the current economic environment, that is undoubtedly true. What is not true is that everybody can. And if you go around telling every individual that they can find jobs and succeed, you will, in fact, be relaying false information.

So what do you prefer I say to them? Hey, you a crap individual who will not be able to succeed, so why don't you go suck on your mother's teat like the crying baby you are?

There will be people who need more assistance than others, which is why I say that the government should be there to help them not with welfare, but with changes that can spur job growth. However, in the meantime, people need to take charge and try to make the best of a bad situation.

Being contemptuousness and dismissive doesn't change the fact that we are clearly facing a structural crisis within the economy at large.

I never said there wasn't. I even said that our government needs to step up their game to help businesses grow jobs.

I find it interesting you insist that "some of the problem is on [the kids]," which I don't disagree with, but explain by describing what they "need to be taught." Yes, they do. Whose fault is it if no one does?

Who cares whose fault is it? If you blame it on the parents, so what? Does blaming your parents really improve your current situation? Do you blame corporations? What will that accomplish since you still need them to provide jobs for people out there? The government? The individuals?

All I'm saying is that there are things people can do to help themselves whether volunteering, going to school for a vocational occupation, asking friends and relatives for job references, etc. I know it's difficult, I don't dismiss that, but I do believe a person's fate is entirely their own and that blaming someone else won't accomplish much.

If you were around then, how would you have told people during the Great Depression to make a living for themselves?

If I was around then, I would probably do a lot of things they did back then. Be super stingy, give up luxury goods and wants, keep looking for work, stretch out my dollar as much as possible, and see what other opportunities I can take to increase my value as a worker.

 

[Smokey]

You said you have two years left after this one?

Advice: Get an internship. Either this summer (after you finish your sophomore year), or next summer (after your junior year, before your senior year), or both. Go to your university's job fairs, look for recruitment events on campus by individual companies, and follow up with the recruiters you meet by sending them a message or calling them up after the meeting.

That's how I got my job with Lockheed Martin. They sent some recruiters to the University of Minnesota, I showedu p at the meeting along with 20 or so other people. I got the recruiters contact information. I followed up with them. I submitted my resume. I got an interview for an internship, and got the internship (Only 4 internships out of 280 applicants... yikes).

This was during summer vacation after my junior year.

They told me they'd be sending me a job offer at the end of the year when I finished my internship in august.

In November 2009, I got my job offer. I've been working here since I graduated in April 2010.


Get your foot in the door with an internship while you're still a student. It'll transition into a career once you've graduated if you perform well enough.

I'd highly suggest listening to this guy.

I graduated in December 2010, but I had an internship in the summer of 2010. I saw the writing on the wall in 2009. I told myself I absolutely had to get an internship in 2010 and I worked my ass off and got one. From there I did well and was offered a full time job from the company my final semester in college. Been there for over a year now.

Without that internship I'm not sure I could've found a job straight out of school with no experience. If you're still in school that is the best advice I can give. Cut the partying down and work on your grades so you put yourself in a good position to land an internship and hopefully a full time job.

 

[Earthstrike]

So what do you prefer I say to them? Hey, you a crap individual who will not be able to succeed, so why don't you go suck on your mother's teat like the crying baby you are?

There will be people who need more assistance than others, which is why I say that the government should be there to help them not with welfare, but with changes that can spur job growth. However, in the meantime, people need to take charge and try to make the best of a bad situation.



I never said there wasn't. I even said that our government needs to step up their game to help businesses grow jobs.



Who cares whose fault is it? If you blame it on the parents, so what? Does blaming your parents really improve your current situation? Do you blame corporations? What will that accomplish since you still need them to provide jobs for people out there? The government? The individuals?

All I'm saying is that there are things people can do to help themselves whether volunteering, going to school for a vocational occupation, asking friends and relatives for job references, etc. I know it's difficult, I don't dismiss that, but I do believe a person's fate is entirely their own and that blaming someone else won't accomplish much.



If I was around then, I would probably do a lot of things they did back then. Be super stingy, give up luxury goods and wants, keep looking for work, stretch out my dollar as much as possible, and see what other opportunities I can take to increase my value as a worker.

Identifying the origin of problems helps you when you want to create solutions to those problems.

 

[gondwana]

Identifying the origin of problems helps you when you want to create solutions to those problems.

he did. the solution for involuntary unemployment under capitalism: bootstraps

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

At least the Occupy/iPad generation had two decade long wars under their belt, and literally could not file bankruptcy to get rid of their giant student loans ( due to a rule that I'm sure a Baby Boomer created)

the boomers had Vietnam from 1961 to 1975, plus the whole fighting for civil rights and equality. not all of them are terrible.

 

[NZA36]

Good luck, everybody. I had an unpaid internship and it hasn't helped me at all.

 

[godnorazi]

I still consider us lucky. No one is trying to draft me and I've got all this cool technology making my life way easy.

it could be argued the other way around... 20 years ago you didnt have to worry about a work related cell phone call or email while on vacation.. you didnt have to bother with social media and PR

 

[The Power Of Snap]

Entry-level position

Requirements: 10 years experience.

Salary: 30 000$

 

[Ela Hadrun]

the boomers had Vietnam from 1961 to 1975, plus the whole fighting for civil rights and equality. not all of them are terrible.

Right. And then they sold out. For the "Me" Decade.

They borrowed, borrowed, borrowed. Only the best for us, their special little angels; even if they had to buy it on credit. Student loans were increasingly deregulated, as it didn't seem FAIR that their little darlings couldn't just borrow infinite amounts of money so they could go wherever they wanted to.

My dad is a great guy. He is a nice guy. He is a financial moron. He had re-mortgaged the house god knows how many times. My grandparents came to live with my parents because it was cheaper than assisted living (smart financial move) so when my grandmother needed a handicapped bar in the bathroom, my dad re-mortgaged so they could put in a $600,000 renovation with new master suite and redone upstairs bathroom and redone downstairs handicapped-accessible bathroom and new finished basment addition. (NOT a smart financial move btw)

When I was picking colleges my parents were like "don't worry about the money, you can borrow it and pay it off." Being seventeen, I assumed my parents knew what they were talking about.

My dad dropped out of two colleges before he got his degree. He and his bros were wiping their asses with empty pizza box strips because they didn't bother to buy toilet paper in their nasty 1970s bachelor pad.

My dad was making six figures by the time he was 35.

My dad worked hard once he decided he would, but it didn't matter that he had literally wiped his ass with garbage or dropped out of another college or whatever. One day he decided to show up and he got paid. That isn't how it works anymore. I have many friends who are desperate to work. I have always been able to find work somewhere or another, whether retail or whatever, but usually that work was not enough for me to pay all of my bills. (Also, several of the businesses I worked for closed locations due to the recession.) Many of my friends, in fact some of the hardest working people I know, are three digits deep into submitted resumes, many of which are rejected with "we have decided not to fill the position but we will keep you on file."

My husband and I only just reached a situation where we can pay our monthly bills on time every time (after eight straight years of the juggling act), and that's because of a lightning strike where he knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy. I'm a history major, but my husband is a CS guy, and while my major is bullshit, I work my ass off helping special needs kids. It took eight years of looking for us to finally feel some sense of stability.

Anyone over forty who says that young adults these days just need to suck it up is being outrageously selfish. A generation benefited from the boom days of the 80s and 90s, and another generation is paying for it now.

Anyone under forty who says that young adults need to suck it up and work harder are living in denial. 1) It could happen to you, too, buddy. One day you could get that pink slip and it could all be gone. 2) Oh, that wouldn't ruin you? Then, congratulations. You are one of the elites. Maybe you inherited it, maybe you networked it, maybe you lucked into it. But you didn't get it by working the hardest. Unless you made your way up from hospital janitor, in which case say whatever the fuck you want, you are the backbone of this great nation.

 

[ElectricThunder]

SI know it's difficult, I don't dismiss that, but I do believe a person's fate is entirely their own and that blaming someone else won't accomplish much.

Not to horribly single this out, but for me this is the same sort of thinking that lead to the whole "Incompetence, not Malice" trope which I view as incredibly dangerous as a thing that begets naive reasoning going forward that just leads to bigger structural/endemic problems.

Actions have consequences, and trust me as an anecdotal internet stranger, when those in positions of authority and power deign to needlessly meddle with a person whom they, rightly or wrongly, have tremendous sway over----you better believe "Fate", as a personal, conscious-decision concept, takes a backseat to human intervention of a very different sort than the sort of....human intervention in so called Fate that you are generally advocating otherwise in the form of "buckle down, keep trying at something, otherwise FATE because of personal fate".

People don't exist in a vacuum, we've got to be good stewards to the land, ourselves, and those we come across or we are ultimately fucked as individual and as a civilization---those that shit on that sort of social contract stand to ruin it for the outstanding lot of folks as it is inherently easier to destroy and malign than it is to nurture and foster improvement thereof.

What has been a true struggle for ages, those with inordinate power rising withbout due consequences for abuse of it, continues into the present age---with the very dangerous part being the stakes are among the highest they've ever been in terms of just how much serious damage one or more persons can wreak upon any number of things that powerfully effect others, with the intentioned checks to those sorts of things being outdated at best or bought off for immunity at the worst allowing for actions with impunity.

 

[MidnightScott]

Well I was born in 89' and-

shit

This. I don't even know what I want to do because I'm afraid I would be kicked to the curb since the economy is so bad. I didn't attend college and I'm going to be 23 this year.

 

[Izayoi]

Entry-level position

Requirements: 10 years experience.

Yup. I've got two bachelor's degrees and I'm working slave wages at three dead end jobs.

Someone kill me.

Salary: 30 000$

Shit, I'd take a job that pays 30k a year in a heartbeat over what I've got.

 

[Parch]

Plenty of generalizations here. The old had it so good and now the young have it so bad.
Hogwash.
Plenty of boomers worked hard for what they've earned and it was never as easy as some seem to think. After 17 years in a job I was the victim of cutbacks. All of a sudden I was kicked to the curb. The job I was expecting to be a career was over and I was back to the beginning accepting minimum wage jobs. That happened 16 years ago. Those booming 90's weren't as glorious as some people seem to think.

So now we get a generation scolding boomers because they didn't save. Why? So we could give it to you? Keep in mind a lot of these boomers did give their kids a lot including college educations. Some could. Plenty couldn't.

This generalization that boomers are evil and the root of all problems is utter nonsense. It's an easy scapegoat for a lot of people who just want to throw their arms up in air and give up because they all concur that there's somebody to blame.

You can give up and expect charity or you can adjust to the hard times and do something about improving your situation. You know, like every other person has done in the history of mankind.

 

[RDreamer]

Plenty of generalizations here. The old had it so good and now the young have it so bad.
Hogwash.
Plenty of boomers worked hard for what they've earned and it was never as easy as some seem to think. After 17 years in a job I was the victim of cutbacks. All of a sudden I was kicked to the curb. The job I was expecting to be a career was over and I was back to the beginning accepting minimum wage jobs. That happened 16 years ago. Those booming 90's weren't as glorious as some people seem to think.

There are plenty of generalizations on both ends of the aisle. I really genuinely hope no one thinks a lot of boomers didn't have to work to get where they are. I know they did, and I'm sure many people in my generation know they did. The problem, I think, comes when my generation identifies a systematic problem and then the boomers collectively call us entitled. We're not as lazy as some people seem to think, either.

Both sides need to cool their jets and look at things objectively. Pointing the finger at the boomers does just about as much as the boomers pointing at us. How about we point our fingers at the system and collectively figure out what's wrong and where to go so that future generations aren't part of this same fight.

You can give up and expect charity or you can adjust to the hard times and do something about improving your situation. You know, like every other person has done in the history of mankind.

Or you can adjust to the hard times, do something about it to improve your situation, and look at what caused it and see if there isn't something we can collectively do to change the situation.

 

[Parch]

Saw a decent news program about this entitled generation. This young lady gets out of college and borrows more money for her aroma therapy business. Of course it doesn't work so she's going through bankruptcy proceedings and freaking out that she has to give up her credit cards. If she was in that much debt she should have been cutting up those cards long ago. Then she insists she won't give up her $8 lattes and pedicures because she considered those necessary to maintain her sanity.

Where has common sense about debt management been lost? I'm seeing so many young people insisiting that they MUST have that new IPhone, and a vehicle is an ABSOLUTE necessity. I'm trying to teach my stepson responsibility but it's like he doesn't care as long he gets that latest thing that everybody has, and to hell with the future consequences. Of course it's a serious pout and all my fault when he doesn't get what he wants. I'm the problem because I'm not part of the modern world. It gets harder and harder to not laugh.

I never had any money management education in school either but at least I had the common sense to live within my means and never get into serious debt problems. Even as a kid. You accepted and dealt with what the world offered. Most of the time it wasn't good.

Now it seems like tough times are just unacceptable, and I'm seeing a lot of blame game from a generation that is having a hard time accepting bootstrap measures. As far as I'm concerned it's part of life. You better learn to deal with it, because nobody is going to bail you out.

 

[12STS]

Plenty of generalizations here. The old had it so good and now the young have it so bad.
Hogwash.
Plenty of boomers worked hard for what they've earned and it was never as easy as some seem to think. After 17 years in a job I was the victim of cutbacks. All of a sudden I was kicked to the curb. The job I was expecting to be a career was over and I was back to the beginning accepting minimum wage jobs. That happened 16 years ago. Those booming 90's weren't as glorious as some people seem to think.

So now we get a generation scolding boomers because they didn't save. Why? So we could give it to you? Keep in mind a lot of these boomers did give their kids a lot including college educations. Some could. Plenty couldn't.

This generalization that boomers are evil and the root of all problems is utter nonsense. It's an easy scapegoat for a lot of people who just want to throw their arms up in air and give up because they all concur that there's somebody to blame.

You can give up and expect charity or you can adjust to the hard times and do something about improving your situation. You know, like every other person has done in the history of mankind.

I do so appreciate the fact that you open your post by decrying the use of generalizations and then go on to imply that younger generations are struggling because they aren't working hard. The irony is palpable.

One has to be pretty disingenuous to make the post that you just made. The following pieces of information are facts, not opinions:

-Baby Boomers came of age in what is now known to be the most aggressively expansive economies in the history of the world. The period between the 50's and 70's is largely considered to be the golden age of the middle-class in the United States, meaning the Baby Boomers had an opportunity to amass wealth far easier than those who are coming of age today.

-When the Baby Boomers came of age, a single-income household led by a patriarch with a high school diploma was the norm. When children were sick, the mother was there to take care of them. If the father became sick or unemployed, the mother could step in and get a basic job to help the family scrape by until the father could get back into the mix.

-Women in the workplace were far less common, meaning salaries and benefits were more aggressive than what is considered to be the norm today.

-Adjusted for inflation, basic necessities of life are drastically more expensive than they were when the Baby Boomers came of age. Food, shelter, clothing, and healthcare were all attainable by the aforementioned single-income household. College education is also a necessity of life now when it wasn't a mere 20 years ago.

-The availability of easy credit has resulted in a bidding war in suburbs across the country.

Trust me, we're all impressed by the struggles that the Baby Boomers endured. Growing up in the most prosperous period of the United States must have been so hard on them.

 

[RDreamer]

I do so appreciate the fact that you open your post by decrying the use of generalizations and then go on to imply that younger generations are struggling because they aren't working hard. The irony is palpable.

One has to be pretty disingenuous to make the post that you just made. The following pieces of information are facts, not opinions:

-Baby Boomers came of age in what is now known to be the most aggressively expansive economies in the history of the world. The period between the 50's and 70's is largely considered to be the golden age of the middle-class in the United States, meaning the Baby Boomers had an opportunity to amass wealth far easier than those who are coming of age today.

-When the Baby Boomers came of age, a single-income household led by a patriarch with a high school diploma was the norm. When children were sick, the mother was there to take care of them. If the father became sick or unemployed, the mother could step in and get a basic job to help the family scrape by until the father could get back into the mix.

-Women in the workplace were far less common, meaning salaries and benefits were more aggressive than what is considered to be the norm today.

-Adjusted for inflation, basic necessities of life are drastically more expensive than they were when the Baby Boomers came of age. Food, shelter, clothing, and healthcare were all attainable by the aforementioned single-income household. College education is also a necessity of life now when it wasn't a mere 20 years ago.

-The availability of easy credit has resulted in a bidding war in suburbs across the country.

Trust me, we're all impressed by the struggles that the Baby Boomers endured. Growing up in the most prosperous period of the United States must have been so hard on them.

I have a feeling you watched some Elizabeth Warren. High five if you did!

Anyway, to add to that, I've jotted down some of the specific stats from one of her speeches:

The TWO income family in the early 2000s compared to the ONE income family of the 1970s:

spent 32% less on clothing
spent 18% less on food
spent 52% less on appliances
spent 24% less per car (keep cars more than 2 years longer)

They spent 76% more in mortgage but they were also 50% more likely to be in a house more than 25 years old.

They also...
spent 74% more in health insurance (for a healthy family with employer based health insurance)
spent 50% more on cars (because they now need two cars)
spent 100% increase in childcare (it's really more than that, since this wasn't a cost at all in the 70s really)
and spent 25% more in taxes

The single income family of the 70s earned less money ($32,000) and used half their income on big fixed expenses.

The double income family of the 00s earned $70,00 dollars, but had committed 3/4 of their income to meet those big fixed expenses. Despite making more they had far less money left over than the one income had in the 70s.

Also take into account that the one income family in the 70s only needed a high school diploma to reach the middle class. And by the year 2002 you pretty well need college education. To quote Elizabeth, "Twice as many people in America in 2002 believe that the moon shot landing was faked... than believe you can make it into the middle class in America without a college diploma."

So that's where we are here in good ol' America. But no, no, you don't need to change the system. Just work hard and you'll get into the every-shrinking middle class...probably...maybe... no, you likely won't anymore.

 

[mackattk]

I have a feeling you watched some Elizabeth Warren. High five if you did!

Anyway, to add to that, I've jotted down some of the specific stats from one of her speeches:

The TWO income family in the early 2000s compared to the ONE income family of the 1970s:

spent 32% less on clothing
spent 18% less on food
spent 52% less on appliances
spent 24% less per car (keep cars more than 2 years longer)

They spent 76% more in mortgage but they were also 50% more likely to be in a house more than 25 years old.

They also...
spent 74% more in health insurance (for a healthy family with employer based health insurance)
spent 50% more on cars (because they now need two cars)
spent 100% increase in childcare (it's really more than that, since this wasn't a cost at all in the 70s really)
and spent 25% more in taxes

The single income family of the 70s earned less money ($32,000) and used half their income on big fixed expenses.

The double income family of the 00s earned $70,00 dollars, but had committed 3/4 of their income to meet those big fixed expenses. Despite making more they had far less money left over than the one income had in the 70s.

Also take into account that the one income family in the 70s only needed a high school diploma to reach the middle class. And by the year 2002 you pretty well need college education. To quote Elizabeth, "Twice as many people in America in 2002 believe that the moon shot landing was faked... than believe you can make it into the middle class in America without a college diploma."

So that's where we are here in good ol' America. But no, no, you don't need to change the system. Just work hard and you'll get into the every-shrinking middle class...probably...maybe... no, you likely won't anymore.

That is basically what the problem is, baby boomers had it far more easier finding jobs, getting a decent salary, and working less. These days people are tied to a company cell phone, expected to be on call 24/7. Things have gotten far more complicated. In my field, things like energy star and leed make us do twice as much work with no increase in pay or salary. I'm tired of seeing people work low term contract jobs with absolutely no benfits and low pay so the big wigs can make a bigger bonus on top of their massive salary.

One other thing is pensions. My mother just retired and has pension for the rest of her life. On top of stuggling to get by amidst of student debt, high health care cost, and low wages, I will also have to try to save for retirement (that I'm sure will never happen) while some of the boomers got in at the tail end of pensions and other retirement benefits.

 

[12STS]

I have a feeling you watched some Elizabeth Warren. High five if you did!

Anyway, to add to that, I've jotted down some of the specific stats from one of her speeches:

The TWO income family in the early 2000s compared to the ONE income family of the 1970s:

spent 32% less on clothing
spent 18% less on food
spent 52% less on appliances
spent 24% less per car (keep cars more than 2 years longer)

They spent 76% more in mortgage but they were also 50% more likely to be in a house more than 25 years old.

They also...
spent 74% more in health insurance (for a healthy family with employer based health insurance)
spent 50% more on cars (because they now need two cars)
spent 100% increase in childcare (it's really more than that, since this wasn't a cost at all in the 70s really)
and spent 25% more in taxes

The single income family of the 70s earned less money ($32,000) and used half their income on big fixed expenses.

The double income family of the 00s earned $70,00 dollars, but had committed 3/4 of their income to meet those big fixed expenses. Despite making more they had far less money left over than the one income had in the 70s.

Also take into account that the one income family in the 70s only needed a high school diploma to reach the middle class. And by the year 2002 you pretty well need college education. To quote Elizabeth, "Twice as many people in America in 2002 believe that the moon shot landing was faked... than believe you can make it into the middle class in America without a college diploma."

So that's where we are here in good ol' America. But no, no, you don't need to change the system. Just work hard and you'll get into the every-shrinking middle class...probably...maybe... no, you likely won't anymore.

Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Guilty as charged.

Come to think of it, there is yet another pervasive movement in this country that Baby Boomers didn't have to deal with in the form of unpaid internships. The flagrant abuse of unpaid internships was far less common than it is today.

Not only do younger generations have to spend more for a less prosperous career but they're lucky to get paid at all in the beginning, depending on the industry they decide to work in.

 

[sans_pants]

Saw a decent news program about this entitled generation. This young lady gets out of college and borrows more money for her aroma therapy business. Of course it doesn't work so she's going through bankruptcy proceedings and freaking out that she has to give up her credit cards. If she was in that much debt she should have been cutting up those cards long ago. Then she insists she won't give up her $8 lattes and pedicures because she considered those necessary to maintain her sanity.

Where has common sense about debt management been lost? I'm seeing so many young people insisiting that they MUST have that new IPhone, and a vehicle is an ABSOLUTE necessity. I'm trying to teach my stepson responsibility but it's like he doesn't care as long he gets that latest thing that everybody has, and to hell with the future consequences. Of course it's a serious pout and all my fault when he doesn't get what he wants. I'm the problem because I'm not part of the modern world. It gets harder and harder to not laugh.

I never had any money management education in school either but at least I had the common sense to live within my means and never get into serious debt problems. Even as a kid. You accepted and dealt with what the world offered. Most of the time it wasn't good.

Now it seems like tough times are just unacceptable, and I'm seeing a lot of blame game from a generation that is having a hard time accepting bootstrap measures. As far as I'm concerned it's part of life. You better learn to deal with it, because nobody is going to bail you out.

i dont think your two examples are enough of a sample size for you to call the entire generation entitled

 

[makingmusic476]

I would fully support an extensive public works program in the U.S., aimed at improving our infrastructure in various ways (mass transport, networking, etc.) and employing out of work young adults.

I'd sign up day one.

 

[sans_pants]

I would fully support an extensive public works program in the U.S., aimed at improving our infrastructure in various ways (mass transport, networking, etc.) and employing out of work young adults.

I'd sign up day one.

would be such a good idea. hopefully they would also throw in some development of alternative energy in there. i dont think the republicans would be down with the government spending massively even though its probably the right thing to do to help the economy

 

[makingmusic476]

would be such a good idea. hopefully they would also throw in some development of alternative energy in there. i dont think the republicans would be down with the government spending massively even though its probably the right thing to do to help the economy

Just shave off $100 billion a year from the defense budget.

Good idea? Maybe? No? Please? ;_;

 

[Vicetrailia]

I came from pretty much the bottom of the barrel and now I finally have a tiny something after all of that struggling...

If someone told me "bootstraps did you well" I'd punch them across the planet.

Boost that infrastructure, it's very much needed for many people.

 

[ProfessorLobo]

would be such a good idea. hopefully they would also throw in some development of alternative energy in there. i dont think the republicans would be down with the government spending massively even though its probably the right thing to do to help the economy

They're not now?

 

[sans_pants]

They're not now?

yeah but spending even more in proper directions would be impossible

 

[UrokeJoe]

Don't hate the player... It's kind of like hating the mouse for the maze they were given.

 

[XMonkey]

They're not now?

On the wrong things. Primarily, our insane spending on 'defense'.

 

[Nato]

Holy shit, people. The economy is in the midst of a downturn (albeit a particularly bad one), which happens frequently, as economies are cyclical. Revolution? wow

 

[sans_pants]

Holy shit, people. The economy is in the midst of a downturn (albeit a particularly bad one), which happens frequently, as economies are cyclical. Revolution? wow

its a very severe one that will likely get worse and its unlikely things will ever be the same. And our generation is getting trashed plus unlike the old days the reasons are observable and we can clearly see how bad we've been screwed. You realise this revolution is global, right? This isn't just a little downturn

 

[makingmusic476]

its a very severe one that will likely get worse and its unlikely things will ever be the same. And our generation is getting trashed plus unlike the old days the reasons are observable and we can clearly see how bad we've been screwed. You realise this revolution is global, right? This isn't just a little downturn

Plus, it's likely that technological redundancy is slowing our recovery, and we'll inevitably reach a point where the number of jobs being made redundant will consistently outpace the number of new jobs being created.

Employers are realizing they can get more done for less thanks in large part to technology, and thus aren't rehiring at rates that'll make up for the number of jobs lost since 2008.

 

[cdyhybrid]

JOB CREATORS

 

[Slavik81]

You'll have to forgive the source material but I found an excerpt from this article to be surprisingly spot on:

I know that's what my parents always said. Go to college and don't flip burgers.

Spoiler

disclaimer: I am gainfully employed

Working fast food was the most difficult, thankless and worst paying job I've ever had. Fuck working that for the rest of my life.

Getting an engineering degree was the best decision I ever made. It literally pays 5x better than what I made flipping burgers (7 years ago), it's 5x less tiring and is 100x more enjoyable.

EDIT: Also, you have 2 "http"s in your link.

 

[Mortrialus]

What?

Herman Cain: "If You Don't Have A Job And You're Not Rich, Blame Yourself"
Gingrich: Poor kids don't work, only get cash illegally
Limbaugh: Occupy Wall St. Protesters Are "Perpetually Lazy, Spoiled Rotten, 99 Percent White Kids"
Limbaugh: "47 Percent Of The Population Is Content To Be Slovenly, Lazy Takers"

I can find hundreds of videos and articles of republicans/conservatives stating that poor people are poor because they're lazy.

 

[Fallout-NL]

You said you have two years left after this one?

Advice: Get an internship. Either this summer (after you finish your sophomore year), or next summer (after your junior year, before your senior year), or both. Go to your university's job fairs, look for recruitment events on campus by individual companies, and follow up with the recruiters you meet by sending them a message or calling them up after the meeting.

That's how I got my job with Lockheed Martin. They sent some recruiters to the University of Minnesota, I showedu p at the meeting along with 20 or so other people. I got the recruiters contact information. I followed up with them. I submitted my resume. I got an interview for an internship, and got the internship (Only 4 internships out of 280 applicants... yikes).

This was during summer vacation after my junior year.

They told me they'd be sending me a job offer at the end of the year when I finished my internship in august.

In November 2009, I got my job offer. I've been working here since I graduated in April 2010.


Get your foot in the door with an internship while you're still a student. It'll transition into a career once you've graduated if you perform well enough.

Yeah? What about the other 276 applicants?

 

[Liberty4all]

A few thoughts ... coming from a Gen X'er. Although I was born in 76 I tend to identify pretty strongly with Gen Y, I think in part because I was still in university when the internet age really hit full tilt and because I was on the tail end of Gen X.

With that said as a Gen X'er, my generation tends to have a little boomer in our hearts ... although that is tempered by Gen X's fatalism. My generation (particularly those gen X'ers born after 75, grew up knowing that boomers wouldn't be retiring for 40 or 50 years AFTER we entered the work force. We grew up knowing beyond a shadow of a doubt we were "screwed" in terms of job opportunities.

By 1995 when I finished high school, corporate America and Canada were enthusiastically embracing offshore outsourcing, and the ability to jump into the workforce without post secondary was already ancient history.

A big mistake I made (and I still see many Gen Y'ers make) is chasing post secondary education without really targeting an area that is "guaranteed" to see job growth. So many of my friends ended up taking general arts degrees which lead to fuck all in terms of jobs.

See I'm actually a Employment Counsellor by trade and have been for 6 years. I changed careers at 28 going back to college (in the US this would be considered a "community College" and doing the research to figure out what fields would actually net me a job. One thing that changed around the year 2000 or so was that the stigma around College completely dissapeared. In the 90's it was University (in the US State College) or bust.

You guys are right regarding employers nowadays. There is no such thing anymore as "entry level" in most companies. Corporations want education and preferably at least 2 years of experience. They don't care where you've got those two years from, just that you have it.

So some free advice:

1. Internships are good
2. Community Colleges that focus on training you in a very specialized field are often more useful than a state College's (US)/University (Canada) generalized BA of fuck all.
3. Look for college programs that include practicums/work placements/co-op as a component of the program. That experience is resume fodder ... and often employers you have "worked" for while in school will hire you on when you are finished.
4. The job search is now all about selling yourself and networking. I used to be in sales so I understood this well, but many people just don't get it.
5. Even if you think it's great your resume is most likely shit, ESPECIALLY if you are in your 20's. Go to a government sponsored Employment Centre and have an Employment Counsellor/Career Counsellor/Job Coach help you to fix it.
6. Combined Resumes (part Functional and Part Chronological) are the way to go ESPECIALLY for 20 somethings that have little experience. Functional only resumes make it look like you are trying to "hide" your lack of work experience, Chronological only resumes clearly show your lack of work experience. Combined is the best of both worlds.
7. Get on LinkedIn. Grow that shit. LinkedIn is a multi year long term play (sort of like the online version of your career portfolio) ... get on LinkedIn and grow your connections. Make sure they are "real" connections don't just let anyone link to you. References on LinkedIn are very good. Employers check these.
8. You need post secondary but again it needs to be focused in a field you KNOW there will be demand for when you graduate. Do your homework. Canadians can use this link here and here
9. Networking is king
10. You need work references ... a minimum of 2. They can be from your internship/Volunteer job/Student Practicum Placement/Real job. Nobody cares that you have no work experience. You need references. Figure it out. (note: Only use a school professor reference if you are desperate. Many employers look down on this type of reference)


Millennials have it rough, of that there is no doubt but no rougher than late Gen X'ers. In some ways you Millenials are lucky ... at least boomers will start retiring in the next 15 - 20 years. The first wave just hit 65 last year. With that said their retirement is not a guarantee ... Boomers are holding up the entire chain but many are also broke ... many of them will NOT be retiring until they die or kicked out the door.

As an Employment Counsellor I worked with many Internationally Trained Newcomers from China, India, etc. Many of them really didn't get it why they can't find jobs. For example a couple months ago I worked with a Chinese girl around age 28. Back home she was a project manager. She had hundreds of people under her. Not "a few" or a "small team". Hundreds. Employers beat down her door with a flood of job offers the moment she finished university back home. She just couldn't come to terms with how things work here .... that boomers are in the "equivalent" position she held at home, as well as the fact that in North America EVERYBODY has post secondary meaning what little jobs are available are fiercely competed for. Combine that with a dissapearing manufacturing sector (and in some cases tech too) thanks to offshore outsourcing and you have a job market that can't support the number of people that actually want jobs.

Globalism and Free Trade has been a big joke in some ways. We thought that we were going to raise the third world to our standard of living, but instead we are being reduced to theirs. It's not just manufacturing going overseas ... it's almost everything. Customer Service, Accounting, tech support, IT project management ....

So where are the jobs (that pay wages you can actually live on) going to be in the future?

Health Care is going to be HUGE in North America. It's the one area that won't see cuts (boomers will make sure of that) and demand for nurses, doctors, radiologists, Personal Support Workers, physiotherapists, pharmacists ... will continue to surge.

Federal Government jobs -- Both Federal Governments (US and Canada) will continue to grow larger and bloated. If you are Canadian and bilingual, the Feds are almost always hiring.

Sales jobs will continue to grow. Companies are always going to be interested in people that can make them money.

"Helping Professions" will continue to see growth ... counselling of any sort.

Some IT jobs will continue to be needed (social media manager/coordinator comes to mind ... there is GIGANTIC demand for people that understand SM and preferably have specialized post secondary experience).

Specific Skilled Trades (there is going to be a major shortage of plumbers for example as most of them are mid to late 50's boomers)


Decline industries?

Automotive
Manufacturing of any sort
Engineering (engineers are a dime a dozen overseas)
Any skilled trades position that can be done overseas really


Anyways I'm fully expecting things to get worse. Those people saying "go get a McJob" dont' seem to understand that nowadays McJobs don't pay the bills. In fact you are better off collecting Employment Insurance (or Welfare) and spending that time looking for a "good paying" job in your field (or getting experience doing unpaid work in your field) than you are working for minimum wage.

Minimum wage jobs are Poverty Traps. They also ruin your marketability when trying to get a "real" job. I've seen many immigrants with degrees and diplomas up the ass take a minimum wage job "just for now" only to have that minimum wage job turn into multiple years of slavery.

What some people don't seem to get is that in the old days you started off low and worked your way up. Nowadays there is a very definitive line between "real" jobs and "McWage" jobs. Minimum wage low paying positions don't get any better there is no advancement and they make your resume look like shit (you shouldn't even bother to put them on if applying for a "real" job). As a stopgap they might be ok if you are desperate but I still hold it's better to go live with the folks for a few years and work for FREE (volunteer or internship) to get experience than it is to waste your time for 10 bucks an hour. In the long run.


Anyways I could go on and on about this.

Long story short, boomers screwed us over but it's as much a demographics thing as it is their fault. Boomers will continue to suck at the public tit of socially funded services (in Canada that's Canada Pension Plan and Old Age Security, in the US I'm sure you have your own version) and as the tidle wave of boomers continue to retire expect to see your personal income taxes skyrocket as well as taxes taken right off your pay.

Personally I think there are going to be riots in the future. The US for sure, Canada maybe. The US has way too much debt to be able to continue to fund it's liabiities and with countries like Iran trying to decouple oil from the petrodollar (Iran isn't the only one) the world seems like a powder keg ready to go off.

We are moving towards the third world model with a small elite class, a small wealthy class, and a gigantic mass of poor. I can only hope that the Millennial generation can save us. As the next biggest generation after the boomers it really is going to be "up to you guys". Gen X for sure won't be doing shit except scarping up boomer jobs as they retire. The economy is a mess, boomers retiring may be the straw that breaks the camels back as our underfunded public pension plans implode under the weight.

 

[XMonkey]

Anyone concerned about this issue needs to read this: http://exiledonline.com/thirty-more-years-of-hell/

This is quite good.

 

[Zzoram]

The 18-24 statistic seems really skewed. How common is it for pre-graduate students (as a large bulk of 18-24-year-olds are) to have jobs? Millions of people in that age group are still in high school, too.

Well, most people graduate from high school when they are 18, and considering that most of those people do NOT go to college, their ability to find a job is pretty important.

 

[-PXG-]

Christ. Job and college threads are so depressing on GAF.

 

[mbmonk]

Is all this really the boomer's fault, or did they live in a wonderful period in time that was destine to give way to the realities of the world regardless of what generation was in power?

 

[verbum]

Is all this really the boomer's fault, or did they live in a wonderful period in time that was destine to give way to the realities of the world regardless of what generation was in power?

Probably was just a nice time to grow up.
And all this anger and grief in this thread will not change one thing. Perhaps the ventilation will help but the victim labels will not.

 

[speedline]

You could fine people for not voting..

You could charge people to let them vote.

 

[12STS]

Probably was just a nice time to grow up.
And all this anger and grief in this thread will not change one thing. Perhaps the ventilation will help but the victim labels will not.

Informing people of the history that has led to this predicament helps them join the informed in making an argument for changes in legislation.