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[Shurs]

if by stretch you mean almost exactly the purpose of the story here, then sure. The game is consciously designed so that you don't need a single shred of information about any aspect of the story to proceed. The story is only there as a thin layer to "push" you forward, a motivator by any other name. "X happened, so you can do all this badass stuff to get to Y."

I think the ending of the game shows that the developer was taking the story a little more seriously than you want to admit. Plus, the amount of cutscenes in the game are more than are needed for the style of story you're describing.

 

[Amir0x]

I think the ending of the game shows that the developer was taking the story more seriously than you want to admit.

Honestly i cannot imagine how the ending changed this for you. It was just as bizarre and ridiculously forgettable as everything else. I'm surprised it didn't just say CONGRATULATIONS PLAY AGAIN BUY THE SEQUEL :lol

 

[Shurs]

Honestly i cannot imagine how the ending changed this for you. It was just as bizarre and ridiculously forgettable as everything else. I'm surprised it didn't just say CONGRATULATIONS PLAY AGAIN BUY THE SEQUEL :lol

The ending of the game took itself way more seriously than I was taking it. It was at that point that I tossed aside the idea that, when it came to the story, they weren't trying.

 

[ZealousD]

I hate kb+m for games unless the genre was made for it.

Uhhhhh.... shooters were definitely made for mouse and keyboard.

 

[brandonh83]

if by stretch you mean almost exactly the purpose of the story here, then sure. The game is consciously designed so that you don't need a single shred of information about any aspect of the story to proceed. The story is only there as a thin layer to "push" you forward, a motivator by any other name. "X happened, so you can do all this badass stuff to get to Y."

I've been skipping most of the cutscenes. Game is so fun that I just want to get on with it.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

The ending of the game took itself way more seriously than I was taking it. It was at that point that I tossed aside the idea that, when it came to the story, they weren't trying.

Like what?

 

[ZealousD]

Amirox, even though I agree the story wasn't meant to be a focus, it certainly went beyond simply pushing you forward.

Spoiler

You think President Winters shooting herself really had any bearing at all on Sam's motivations or the gameplay? What about all the background about the world being in economic collapse, and the message of whether or not war can be an economic stimulus?

 

[Leckan]

Yup. How someone can so directly miss the point of this game as to not understand the foundational way this game DEMANDS replays is beyond me... but it says that a lot of people simply should not be writing anything that guides someone toward/against games. To so severely miscalculate what a game is about suggests there is something missing at some fundamental level with your ability to provide critical analysis.

Are we saying that this is automatically great for everyone?

No!

However, if you're against infinitely replayable games that are designed shorter, but around the idea of continually improving your run (the so-called "speed runners wet dream", much like Lara Croft), then you shouldn't be playing this game anyway. It is as large a success at what it sets out to do as is humanly possible.

Have you read the Eurogamer review? They pretty much nailed it.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-10-18-vanquish-review

This article goes further in detail in regards to your point.

All of which misses the whole point of the game completely of course. You can approach this game like a Gears of War clone and play it to complete it, and you can have a reasonably fun "7/10" experience doing so, but this is clearly not the kind of game that Platinum set out to make.

That the Bayonetta studio's latest effort is being described at all as a four, or indeed five hour game is perhaps symptomatic of the way that games have evolved over the years. There's a danger that games are no longer defined by their gameplay, but in terms of "content".

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vanquish-blog-entry

"Content" is more important than quality these days for big publishers. They need bullet-points on the back of the box to sell. This is why we got the awful completely unneccesary MP in Bioshock 2 which no one played for example when they would be better of focusing on other things.

 

[iconoclast]

The only thing the ending did for me was make me want more.

You are a very nice person! I'm off to the store omgTheir compatibility list has a question mark. Anyway, the US release of Bayonetta works in my J360, I just wanted to make sure this would too.

Has there ever been a game that's region free in one place but not in others? That'd be weird. But yeah, the US release of Vanquish works fine on Japanese consoles.

Spoiler

I didn't realize I linked to the Asian version from that list. I should be more careful. :x

 

[Amir0x]

Have you read the Eurogamer review? They pretty much nailed it.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-10-18-vanquish-review

This article goes further in detail in regards to your point.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vanquish-blog-entry

"Content" is more important than quality these days for big publishers. They need bullet-points on the back of the box to sell. This is why we got the awful completely unneccesary MP in Bioshock 2 which no one played for example when they would be better of focusing on other things.

yeah. Their content Digital Foundry blog entry was really perfect. Was kinda impressed it came from a game journalist

 

[Leckan]

yeah. Their content Digital Foundry blog entry was really perfect. Was kinda impressed it came from a game journalist

Maybe then there is still some hope after all?

In regards to sales I doubt Mikami expected it to become a blockbuster. He just made the game he wanted to make with some minor adjustments (The robot-dog companion which was axed.) In fact, this is mostly the motto of Platinum Games in general and why we got these awesome unique quality gameplay experiences that sell like shit.

I guess you can't eat the cake and have it after all.

 

[Y2Kev]

What a superb series of articles from Eurogamer!

Arthur called the game "irritatingly punitive" :lol

 

[Man]

How does the game shape up? I'm about to finish up Act 2 and I'm not as entertained as I hoped to be.

Most impressive moments:

Spoiler

- Drill coming up of ground unleashing robots.
- Lethal radio wave coming out of giant mech sound
- Train battle which goes on at 360degrees

Pros:
+ Good art, lighting and color
+ Great controls (easily the best shooter flow out of Japan)
+ Nice design touches like near death slow-down, instant kill melee emptying energy

Hmm:
~ Enemies are cool looking but not that interesting to fight, cod AI with added sidestep and melee aggressiveness
~ picking up waste ammo not a waste (nice idea as it improves weapons you aren't using as much, not sure if it improves the experience above credits or other alternatives though)
~ Music is not really noticed but keeps tempo

Cons:
- Fuzzy looking, sub HD (and so-so texturing) rears it's head
- Embarrassing cutscenes and story presentation, glad I'm playing this by myself
- I can't point at lack of content when I haven't yet finished the game but I there's not really anything outside of this tunnel of sp content to enjoy. In a western fps or what have you I would explore some MP or maybe visit a different area of a world map etc.

I guess the main problem is that the game hasn't inspired me yet, I really do appreciate the gameplay controls and small quality nuances.

 

[Zeliard]

If there were specific points he raised that were factually incorrect or logically inconsistent (and I'm sure that there were based on his history) then please point them out in the comments thread. You don't need to register or anything.

http://www.eat-sleep-game.com/news/2010/10/22/rebel-fm-episode-81-102210/

I don't care enough to visit their site, frankly, but it isn't what he said about the game itself. People are free to their own opinions on the quality of something, and hell, I haven't even played the full version yet. It's that he tried to paint everyone who likes this game, both critics and consumers, as a vocal minority of God Hand fanboys who like weird Japanese shit and value style over gameplay. He also said that the critics for both Vanquish and Demon's Souls rated it highly solely because those critics "volunteered" to review it. Sigh.

I don't think I have to point out that these are idiotic opinions for a number of reasons. If people mock games journalism, not to mention IGN, it's because they have people like this as their representation. Have the strength of your own convictions - don't try to impugne the motives of others because you don't feel a certain way, just to make yourself feel better about your own shitty opinions.

 

[Flynn]

if by stretch you mean almost exactly the purpose of the story here, then sure. The game is consciously designed so that you don't need a single shred of information about any aspect of the story to proceed. The story is only there as a thin layer to "push" you forward, a motivator by any other name. "X happened, so you can do all this badass stuff to get to Y."

This sounds, to me, like rationalizing the poor efforts that went into the story. I'm all for forgiving weak parts of a game in favor of the parts that you prefer. But lets call a spade a spade.

The story was shitty and people are choosing to ignore it. If the story was designed to be ignored that would have been much, much less of it.

 

[Shurs]

I don't care enough to visit their site, frankly, but it isn't what he said about the game itself. People are free to their own opinions on the quality of something, and hell, I haven't even played the full version yet. It's that he tried to paint everyone who likes this game, both critics and consumers, as a vocal minority of God Hand fanboys who like weird Japanese shit and value style over gameplay. He also said that the critics for both Vanquish and Demon's Souls rated it highly solely because those critics "volunteered" to review it. Sigh.

I don't think I have to point out that these are idiotic opinions for a number of reasons. If people mock games journalism, not to mention IGN, it's because they have people like this as their representation. Have the strength of your own convictions - don't try to impugne the motives of others because you don't feel a certain way, just to make yourself feel better about your own shitty opinions.

I did check out the comments section of E-S-G. It appears that they rip into Kotaku this episode. It reminds me of how they used to make fun of IGN, you know, before they started working there.

 

[Amir0x]

This sounds, to me, like rationalizing the poor efforts that went into the story. I'm all for forgiving weak parts of a game in favor of the parts that you prefer. But lets call a spade a spade.

The story was shitty and people are choosing to ignore it. If the story was designed to be ignored that would have been much, much less of it.

Yeah, I rationalize shitty stories. I'm here saying it's a shitty story. ALL game stories are shitty. There is only like a bare handful of non-shitty game story that exists, if you want to go there.

The difference between a story that I count as a negative and one I don't is in how much focus that story has in the game, and how ignorable it is.

Vanquish story is the pinnacle of ignorable story. You can't get much more ignorable. And because of that, it acts as background noise that can serve no weight in the value I give the game.

Since all game stories are shitty, this is the difference between when I care and when I don't.

 

[panda21]

so i'm usually really annoyed by people bitching about giant bomb not playing things right or not liking the right kind of games, but listening to them talk about this briefly on the giant bombcast was just...

"its like gears of war except instead of the roadie run you have this boost thing so you can do the roadie run but you go really fast"

i'm hoping he just hadnt played it for long or did a really bad job of trying to sum up what the game is, because if thats really what he thinks it is..

edit:
no idea why people are still complaining about the story, seems more like fishing for a reason to disklike it? its ridiculous cheesy garbage just like every other action/shooter game (resident evil is a good example mentioned a few times), and its no more or less intrusive imo. i mean do you think RE4 had a good story? or bayonetta? or castlevania:LOS?

 

[Baloonatic]

-69000 points from dying so much in just the first mission on God Hard :lol I at least have a bit of a tactic now.

 

[Zeliard]

Just out of random curiosity, ever play through Planescape: Torment, Amir0x?

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Just out of random curiosity, ever play through Planescape: Torment, Amir0x?

He's mentioned thinking that has a good story whenever it's come up, as far as I remember.

 

[rollingstart]

The ending of the game took itself way more seriously than I was taking it. It was at that point that I tossed aside the idea that, when it came to the story, they weren't trying.

You really thought the ending took itself seriously? really?

This is literally what happened in the ending: *ending spoiler*

Spoiler

The first female president shoots herself in the head and the blood splatters on the American flag. She is sitting alone in the room, pulls out a pistol, and just offs herself after saying "this is the end of my presidency"
Then you fly through space and shoot asteroids with pictures of the staff on them. The final asteroid is like a boss with Mikami making a goofy expression on it.

 

[Zeliard]

That Digital Foundry article gives me a hard-on, by the way. So satisfying to see someone railing against this shitty idea of "content > gameplay" that has erupted this gen.

 

[Beezy]

Uhhhhh.... shooters were definitely made for mouse and keyboard.

I've only played first person shooters on kb+m. I can't imagine any other type. Whatever, it doesn't matter.

 

[Zeliard]

I've only played first person shooters on kb+m. I can't imagine any other type. Whatever, it doesn't matter.

Third-person shooters as well. Games like Gears of War and GTAIV control significantly better on PC with kb/m. Anything with a reticule that you have to accurately aim, pretty much.

 

[Palette Swap]

I haven't received my copy yet but I definitely like what I'm reading.

It seems to me there was a turning point during the PS1 era when games became more about reaching a goal rather than enjoying the path you had to take to reach that goal. Having saves everywhere in every genre and basically diluting adventure/RPG elements in every genre out there contributed to this to a great extent IMO. This led to great games and the emergence of new genres. GTA 3 and its spin offs and every great open world/sandbox game out there.
I'm not rejecting these games at all, I love some of them. But on the way, it felt like we lost a part of the more elementary fun of games: retrying, enjoying a deep gameplay and overall having the satisfaction of progressing along an almost infinite learning curve. Frequent savepoints, story elements everywhere and experience systems can be awesome but they shouldn't be seen as the be all end all of video games. When done wrong, they mostly suck anyway.

I've enjoyed this generation so far if only because of this: it helped promote across all a number of games which were about scoring, which were about outperforming yourself and your friends by mastering a gameplay and levels. These games were often independent and/or digitally distributed and/or handheld, mostly because a smaller budget game will often have to rely on replay mechanisms. There have been great efforts made in that sense in mainstream games and it seems Vanquish goes in that direction too. FWIW, I replayed Bayonetta to death and kept playing it after reaching 1000/1000 just because it's fun to play and this fun is a goal in itself. On that note, I still believe achievements/trophies could be the greatest thing ever if they were always done right (i.e. if they were all about scoring). I love the way Geometry Wars, Lumines and both Megamans handle them: they keep them simple and hard. It's all about scoring milestones and I can get behind that. Make them ridiculously hard (not absurd) and fuck completionnists, seriously. I don't care about grinding a stupid action 1000 times or fucking up someone else's online game but I do care about erasing 70 blocks a minute. Leaderboards and replays are great features too, of course and I hope they'll be even more integrated next gen.

This is of course broad strokes and I'm aware a lot of counterpoints could be made: the trend could be seen as starting earlier (see Metroid) and great, hardcore games with both contents and scoring existed in the last 2 generations (Mercenaries mode FTW) but my point is just that I'm glad the industry can strike a balance and have both types of games because I love dying stupidly, I love outdoing myself and I love having a quick go at a game as much as I loved it 20 years ago.

Sorry for the mindless rant, I'm kind of tired, and if you guys overhyped me on Vanquish, there'll be hell to pay. :lol

 

[Shurs]

You really thought the ending took itself seriously? really?

This is literally what happened in the ending: *ending spoiler*

Spoiler

The first female president shoots herself in the head and the blood splatters on the American flag. She is sitting alone in the room, pulls out a pistol, and just offs herself after saying "this is the end of my presidency"
Then you fly through space and shoot asteroids with pictures of the staff on them. The final asteroid is like a boss with Mikami making a goofy expression on it.

I wasn't talking about the credits sequence. From the moment you put down the controller until the credits sequence, yes, I think the game was taking itself somewhat seriously. It certainly wasn't particularly funny, bizarre, campy or kick-ass. It made me wince.

 

[Curufinwe]

Don't listen to the latest Rebel FM if you want to keep some semblance of sanity. Arthur Gies says some amazingly idiotic things about this game in particular.

I couldn't help but respond to his claims that the guns don't aim well, the shooting doesn't feel good, Vanquish does not have good mechanics, the reviews heavily emphasize the style of Vanquish over the substance, and that Vanquish is way overrated because the Godhand/Clover Studio aficionados in the press all forced their editors to let them review the game.

Posting it here since the formatting is broken on their site.

Perhaps it is you that don't aim particularly well, Arthur, rather than it being the guns' fault given the large number of reviewers (see Metacritic) and gamers (see Youtube) who have no trouble being extremely accurate with them. It would be so nice if you would take responsibility for your own inadequacies and idiosyncrasies for once, instead of acting like it's always the reviewers who liked a game who are the weird, illogical ones when you don't happen to like that game.

You talking about Vanquish not being good from a mechanical perspective reminds me of Ryan Scott saying that that Ninja Gaiden (Black) on the Xbox is a horrible game with bad controls. Comical, in other words.

And your claim that the reviews of the game emphasize the style of Vanquish over the substance of the game is a very selective reading. Reviews from Gamespot (quoted), Edge, Eurogamer, 1up and even IGN are at pains to point out that the game succeeds because of the gameplay. Your crackpot conspiracy theory that Vanquish only has a good average review score because all the Godhand/Clover fanboys in the gaming press demanded to review it shows you have no respect for your colleagues in the profession. That inability to accept being in the minority without concocting some grand reason why everyone else is wrong has sadly become your calling card.

"Vanquish's original mechanics wouldn't have the same impact if the game didn't also deliver the basics, but the essential gameplay elements are as good as you could hope for. For example, the cover system has exactly the right degree of stickiness, which is an important factor in ensuring that you always feel completely in command. In fact, considering the amount of chaos surrounding you and the speed with which you rocket ahead, it's a wonder that you rarely feel out of control. Regardless of which platform you prefer, the controls are tight and responsive, and the asymmetrical levels practically guarantee that you never feel lost

As a result, even the most challenging sequences never feel unfair, because you are always in control of your own destiny. The factors that contribute to Vanquish's substantial level of difficulty are perfectly tuned. The bosses are tough but don't possess absurdly inflated life bars, so the fights last just the right amount of time. The artificial intelligence is surprisingly solid for a game that throws so many enemies at you at once; your foes stay on the move, use cover in smart ways, and aren't afraid to run up and cuff you if you come in too close"

 

[Fimbulvetr]

I wasn't talking about the credits sequence. From the moment you put down the controller until the credits sequence, yes, I think the game was taking itself somewhat seriously. It certainly wasn't particularly funny, bizarre, campy or kick-ass. It made me wince.

About 2/3s of the ending cutscene are there to set up the premise for a sequel, they serve no other purpose.

 

[Zeliard]

I couldn't help but respond to his claims that the guns don't aim well, the shooting doesn't feel good, Vanquish does not have good mechanics, the reviews heavily emphasize the style of Vanquish over the substance, and that Vanquish is way overrated because the Godhand/Clover Studio aficionados in the press all forced their editors to let them review the game.

Posting it here since the formatting is broken on their site.

Good post, but I wouldn't expect them to brush it off as anything but forum trolling, per their MO.

 

[Shurs]

About 2/3s of the ending cutscene are there to set up the premise for a sequel, they serve no other purpose.

Doesn't that kind of prove my point?

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Doesn't that kind of prove my point?

No.

The fact that

Spoiler

there is a second super evil commie behind the first one exists only as a hype machine.

After all, if the first generic Russian villain was cool enough to set up what happened during the final fight then his even more important leader must have even cooler toys. OMG!

 

[slaughterking]

Spoiler

The fact that there is a second super evil commie behind the first one exists only as a hype machine.

The fact that you just spoiled the ending for me and I don't care at all also shows how secondary the story is...I think. :lol

 

[Volcynika]

Omg spoilers! (Though honestly even if the story is not great at all, people should still tag stuff anyways!)

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Omg spoilers! (Though honestly even if the story is not great at all, people should still tag stuff anyways!)

Ugh, fine.

 

[Shurs]

No.

I'm kinda over talking about the story in this game, but I don't see how you can say, on one hand, that Platinum doesn't care about the story while, on other hand, saying that they spent 2/3rds of a fairly long ending setting up the story for a sequel. It seems like those two statements contradict each other.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

I'm kinda over talking about the story in this game, but I don't see how you can say, on one hand, that Platinum doesn't care about the story while, on other hand, saying that they spent 2/3rds of a fairly long ending setting up the story for a sequel. It seems like those two statements contradict each other.

They want to hype people up to buy their next game by promising an even more dangerous enemy?

 

[Flynn]

Yeah, I rationalize shitty stories. I'm here saying it's a shitty story. ALL game stories are shitty. There is only like a bare handful of non-shitty game story that exists, if you want to go there.

The difference between a story that I count as a negative and one I don't is in how much focus that story has in the game, and how ignorable it is.

Vanquish story is the pinnacle of ignorable story. You can't get much more ignorable. And because of that, it acts as background noise that can serve no weight in the value I give the game.

Since all game stories are shitty, this is the difference between when I care and when I don't.

I can make a very long list of games where I admired the way the story was handled. Vanquish isn't on that list. I'd rather have no story than one that I must try to ignore. Even if the game is very good at being ignorable (which I don't think applies to Vanquish) I'd call that a failing in design.

I agree a hundred percent with you on the personal reasons why certain parts of games are forgivable. They're matters of taste really, which are hard to argue.

But in the grand scheme of things wouldn't Vanquish have been better (and even the masterpiece that some of you are making it out to be) if it had a better story, better characters and made some semblance of sense?

 

[andymcc]

But in the grand scheme of things wouldn't Vanquish have been better (and even the masterpiece that some of you are making it out to be) if it had a better story, better characters and made some semblance of sense?

i actually would of appreciated it more if it was more nonsensical.

 

[Y2Kev]

Mikami is a soldier in the game, just like Kojima in peace walker :lol

 

[Shurs]

They want to hype people up to buy their next game by promising an even more dangerous enemy?

Let's agree to disagree.

To anyone who hasn't played the game, don't let my story comments dissuade you, this game is awesome. The story issues are a drop in the bucket compared to everything else this games does extremely well.

The freedom you are given to tackle each combat situation in the manner in which you choose feels liberating, with the boost and AR (slo-mo) system giving you the agency to kill as creatively as your skills will allow.

Vanquish also has some of the best large enemy encounters I've ever come across.

It's not just worth playing, but worth owning.

"Bloody Terrific."
-Destructoid

 

[Baloonatic]

The grenade spam in God Hard mode is...

 

[iconoclast]

The grenade spam hasn't bothered me at all in God Hard. The blast radius is SO tiny, you have to practically sit on the grenade to get hit by it. Though it does suck when a robot chucks a grenade from 300 feet away and it lands straight on your dome and explodes instantly.

 

[Amir0x]

I can make a very long list of games where I admired the way the story was handled. Vanquish isn't on that list. I'd rather have no story than one that I must try to ignore. Even if the game is very good at being ignorable (which I don't think applies to Vanquish) I'd call that a failing in design.

I agree a hundred percent with you on the personal reasons why certain parts of games are forgivable. They're matters of taste really, which are hard to argue.

But in the grand scheme of things wouldn't Vanquish have been better (and even the masterpiece that some of you are making it out to be) if it had a better story, better characters and made some semblance of sense?

Well you and me disagree on the premise, so.

I think pretty much all game stories are horribly written tripe so the only merit is in ones that go ignorable. Can't go beyond that in the debate since I have seen nothing that anyone has ever been able to provide that has gone against this central truth about games. We got Planescape Torment and some old point/click adventure games and that's about it.

In Vanquish, you can skip everything and the story details literally are not required for any element of the game or its gameplay details. You don't need to retain a single shred of the story to complete the game.

 

[mysticwhip]

Review my favorite YT reviewer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WhvxBy-DEM
Might have convinced me to buy it.

 

[Animator]

Are you guys fucking seriously discussing the story merits of Vanquish?

Like amirox and others said repeatedly, its a arcade game. The story is nothing more than "russia is invading with badass robots and you have a even more badass suit so go and try and stop them." It is there to push you from one set to another. Even though the story is a joke I am enjoying the cutscenes much more than I did the cutscenes of games like gears of war, which takes itself so seriously and has such shitty writing it makes you wince.

The kind of action this game has is second to none. I know no other games that can even match the intensity in their cutscenes let alone in their gameplay.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Mikami is a soldier in the game, just like Kojima in peace walker :lol

he was a champion too. I didn't ever need to help him up.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Don't listen to the latest Rebel FM if you want to keep some semblance of sanity.

sound advice for any working american man, woman or child.

 

[Y2Kev]

who listens to rebelfm :lol

That's like saying "don't lick lead paint if you want to maintain sanity!" or "don't ingest arsenic if you want to get all whacked out"

-the guns don't aim well, the shooting doesn't feel good

Complete tripe. The controls are wonderful, with no deadzone, comfortable button placement, zero lag, and no animation in the way. There's fairly constant and consistent acceleration, and Sam turns on a dime. Each gun has a distinct personality with a unique usage. The machine gun feels heavy, the gatling guns feel powerful, the LFE gun creates a lovely low-frequency sound booming from my subwoofer. If anything, I wish the guns leveled more evenly so that I could use them all.

-Vanquish does not have good mechanics

What does this even mean?

-the reviews heavily emphasize the style of Vanquish over the substance

How can you really make this distinction with this game? The style and the substance are so wonderfully interwoven. Nothing Mikami has designed in this game is unnecssary or flashy just to be flashy. It's like DMC's "stylish action." It's what sets the game apart and makes it unique. Oh, and fucking fun.

But I guess Eurogamer mentioning how they had fun sliding under some gigantic robot's crotch and firing missiles into its face at point-blank range was style over substance.

-and that Vanquish is way overrated because the Godhand/Clover Studio aficionados in the press all forced their editors to let them review the game.

Embarrassing.

 

[Zeliard]

It's a form of self-flagellation.