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[BronzeWolf]

Humans were scavengers for most of our evolutionary history, not skilled hunters. When did humans start cooking meat? If we ate raw meat for most of our evolutionary history, shouldn't raw meat be heathier for us than cooked meat, by your logic? Evolution clumsily cobbles organisms together, it doesn't perfectly "desogn' them.

Also, reading about this I found something funny.

Homo Erectus controlled fire 400,000 ago, not the homo sapiens sapiens, which started branching out around 200,000 years ago

D:

Cooking origins are dated 250,000 even before the human genome started branching out. Humans were eating cooked food as they were branching out, possibly even slightly before. I also never used the word "design". I have a good grasp of how evolution works, thank you

 

[Snuggles]

sausage >>>>>> bacon

 

[state-of-the-art]

I don't about that. We've eaten fatty meat for millions of years. Chances are it's ideally what we're supposed to eat.

Notsureifserious.jpg

 

[Trent Strong]

Cooking origins are dated 250,000 even before the human genome started branching out. Humans were eating cooked food as they were branching out, possibly even slightly before. I also never used the word "design". I have a good grasp of how evolution works, thank you

I'm sure you do. I just wanted to take a jab at you because you and the pwn can be assholes sometimes. Anyway, the point is is that it's entirely possible that eating a lot of fatty meat is bad for us, even if our evolutionary ancestors ate a lot of fatty meat.

 

[DoomGyver]

God I want bacon.

I have maple bacon in the fridge right now. Breakfast can't come soon enough.

 

[Beelzeboss]

Bacon, French toast, Waffles?

It's too late to be thinking about breakfast

 

[BronzeWolf]

I'm sure you do. I just wanted to take a jab at you because you and the pwn can be assholes sometimes. Anyway, the point is is that it's entirely possible that eating a lot of fatty meat is bad for us, even if our evolutionary ancestors ate a lot of fatty meat.

It could, but occam's razor applies.

Is man eating a considerable amount of cooked fatty meat reliably for a couple hundred years be bad for us? or is there some mechanism that "makes" (for lack of a better vocab ): ) fatty meat bad for us, yet has somehow made it tolerable until now?

 

[Srsly]

I'm sure you do. I just wanted to take a jab at you because you and the pwn can be assholes sometimes. Anyway, the point is is that it's entirely possible that eating a lot of fatty meat is bad for us, even if our evolutionary ancestors ate a lot of fatty meat.

It's possible, sure, but the evidence isn't really that compelling in the studies I've seen. And yeah, if saturated fat was a risk factor for our ancestors for developing atherosclerosis, then it was pretty much the only factor. They didn't have to worry about lack of exercise, refined sugar and smoking. Just those three things make a huge difference when it comes to heart disease.

 

[DonMigs85]

sausage >>>>>> bacon

No no, sausages WRAPPED with bacon are teh ultimate food

Spoiler

The sausage needs to be filled with molten cheese too

 

[Srsly]

No no, sausages WRAPPED with bacon are teh ultimate food

Spoiler

The sausage needs to be filled with molten cheese too

 

[BronzeWolf]

I shouldn't be talking about food without eating first. OMFG I am hungers

 

[Blackace]

sausage >>>>>> bacon

Crispy bacon rocks all

 

[GhaleonEB]

Bacon, French toast, Waffles?

It's too late to be thinking about breakfast

We're doing bacon and french toast for breakfast tomorrow. Specifically, cook the bacon, then cook the french toast in the bacon fat (after draining most of it).

Oh gosh.

 

[jamesinclair]

Is that part about the ape accurate? I'd assume after millenia of hunting-gathering followed by agriculture must've changed our diet needs no?

Nope, it's completely false.

Protip: The reason we evolved with such powerful brains is because we eat meat. It's impossible on a vegetarian diet.

 

[Haly]

Wait, isn't getting better at acquiring meat the reason we evolved such powerful brains?

 

[DonMigs85]

We're doing bacon and french toast for breakfast tomorrow. Specifically, cook the bacon, then cook the french toast in the bacon fat (after draining most of it).

Oh gosh.

Or you could mince the bacon and throw it into the pancake or waffle batter. Yuuumz

 

[BronzeWolf]

Wait, isn't getting better at acquiring meat the reason we evolved such powerful brains?

Cause and effect? I am lost on this one lol

 

[Haly]

Well the statement "we evolved brains because we eat meat" is equal to the clause "eating meat gives you brains", which is clearly not true, hence my confusion!

 

[jamesinclair]

Wait, isn't getting better at acquiring meat the reason we evolved such powerful brains?

Well the statement "we evolved brains because we eat meat" is equal to the clause "eating meat gives you brains", which is clearly not true, hence my confusion!

It's a circle actually!

Meat has more energy than plants, which support a more powerful brain. A more powerful brain means for better hunting, thus the ability to acquire more meat. More meat? More energy for a bigger brain!

The classic example is comparing the howler and the spider monkey. Anatomically similar, they live in the same ecosystem and share the same territory. One is vegetarian (and very dumb) and one is an omnivore (and pretty smart).

It's like this for all animals. Cows spend all day eating the same basic blade of grass. No brains needed, no brains possible because all the energy is going towards digestion. Wolves hunt for meat. Brains.

Of course this is on an evolutionary level.

 

[Srsly]

It's a circle actually!

Meat has more energy than plants, which support a more powerful brain. A more powerful brain means for better hunting, thus the ability to acquire more meat. More meat? More energy for a bigger brain!

The classic example is comparing the howler and the spider monkey. Anatomically similar, they live in the same ecosystem and share the same territory. One is vegetarian (and very dumb) and one is an omnivore (and pretty smart).

It's like this for all animals. Cows spend all day eating the same basic blade of grass. No brains needed, no brains possible because all the energy is going towards digestion. Wolves hunt for meat. Brains.

Of course this is on an evolutionary level.

And, of course, the cetaceans, which only eat meat. The bottlenose dolphin is perhaps the only animal that is as smart as us.

 

[BronzeWolf]

I supposed it was a feedback system between energy availability and brain development. I just didn't want to make the assumption that any one caused the other. Instead it seems like a tendency, as long as a the environment allows it. Which is true for all evolutionary facts lol

 

[Al-ibn Kermit]

It's a circle actually!

Meat has more energy than plants, which support a more powerful brain. A more powerful brain means for better hunting, thus the ability to acquire more meat. More meat? More energy for a bigger brain!

The classic example is comparing the howler and the spider monkey. Anatomically similar, they live in the same ecosystem and share the same territory. One is vegetarian (and very dumb) and one is an omnivore (and pretty smart).

It's like this for all animals. Cows spend all day eating the same basic blade of grass. No brains needed, no brains possible because all the energy is going towards digestion. Wolves hunt for meat. Brains.

Of course this is on an evolutionary level.

It's probably more complicated than that. Gorillas for example are herbivores yet they are obviously very smart. They do occasionally eat insects but the vast majority of their calories come from plants.

 

[Freshmaker]

It could, but occam's razor applies.

Is man eating a considerable amount of cooked fatty meat reliably for a couple hundred years be bad for us? or is there some mechanism that "makes" (for lack of a better vocab ): ) fatty meat bad for us, yet has somehow made it tolerable until now?

Fat aside, Bacon's another issue entirely. Nitrates have been linked to heart disease.

 

[jamesinclair]

It's probably more complicated than that. Gorillas for example are herbivores yet they are obviously very smart. They do occasionally eat insects but the vast majority of their calories come from plants.

Gorillas are actually the dumb ones in the large primate family. Chimps, which hunt and use tools, are much smarter.

And sure, it's more complicated than that, it's just a rule of thumb. Animals that eat meat tend to be smarter than vegetarians. Im sure there's a good amount of exceptions, as there are for everything in life.

One important note is that brain size and smarts aren't even directly related. Homo sapiens have smaller brains than neantherthals, if I remember my schooling correctly.

 

[KtSlime]

I don't about that. We've eaten fatty meat for millions of years. Chances are it's ideally what we're supposed to eat.

You don't really get this whole evolution thing do ya?

 

[Visualante]

Haven't intentionally* eaten meat for almost 10 years. Bacon is what I miss most, with salami in at number 2. I often fantasise about a deal like when Phoebe was pregnant, if I convince another meat eater to abstain from eating it that will make it okay for me to have a little bacon.

* eaten sneaky chicken in unlabelled pizza before coughing it up.

 

[exarkun]

Bacon is disgusting. So much fat and oil. Gross. Maybe its the African in me. God, bacon is just unhealthy and dirty.

 

[cntr]

India doesn't sell much pig meat (likely because of the sizable Muslim community) so I haven't ever eaten any bacon. ):

 

[Ulairi]

No, a vegan doesn't consume any animal products, including meat, any dairy, eggs, and for some, honey (I don't consider it vegan). There is actually a lot more to be watchful of in addition to this, but meat, dairy and eggs make up the majority of what we abstain from.

Does that include all types of meat?

*zip*....

 

[Koodo]

Bacon is disgusting. So much fat and oil. Gross. Maybe its the African in me. God, bacon is just unhealthy and dirty.

It's absolutely disgusting if a person is eating it frequently and in large amounts. I mean, ew.

But every once in a while as a treat to accentuate a meal? Divine.

 

[SnakeXs]

Bacon is disgusting. So much fat and oil. Gross. Maybe its the African in me. God, bacon is just unhealthy and dirty.

Gaiety all up in this bitch.

Fat aside, Bacon's another issue entirely. Nitrates have been linked to heart disease.

Luckily they make it without nitrates. As an added bonus, the nitrate free stuff is oftentimes better anywho.

 

[DoomGyver]

India doesn't sell much pig meat (likely because of the sizable Muslim community) so I haven't ever eaten any bacon. ):

You haven't lived until you've had some bacon, remember that.

 

[KtSlime]

Gorillas are actually the dumb ones in the large primate family. Chimps, which hunt and use tools, are much smarter.

And sure, it's more complicated than that, it's just a rule of thumb. Animals that eat meat tend to be smarter than vegetarians. Im sure there's a good amount of exceptions, as there are for everything in life.

One important note is that brain size and smarts aren't even directly related. Homo sapiens have smaller brains than neantherthals, if I remember my schooling correctly.

Homo sapiens neaderthalensis did have a larger brain, but that was a cold environment survival tactic. The larger the mass of something, the less energy is expended in keeping heat.

Now, the fact that animals that eat meat are 'smarter' isn't quite right: the ones you are referring to are pack hunting animals. So, it seems that there is a correlation between how social a species is, and how smart it is.

Gorillas are not dumb, they have a different niche, and they have different survival tactics than chimpanzees - they use fewer tools because they don't need to use them.

And last but not least; yes, it is true that durring the formidable years of homo's evolution that we did in fact eat meat via scavenging and hunting; and that it is unlikely that we would have become such wonderfully social animals that can support a near infinite range of languages and communication had that not been the case - but, with a capital B. But, we do not need to continue eating meat - the great expansion of humans, the rise of cultures, civilizations, medicines, technologies - all of those are fueled by agriculture, typically of the plant variety.

Humans no longer need to eat meat to sustain their big brains.

*I'm kind of an expert on this topic

 

[speculawyer]

Bacon has always been the secret weapon that we must use to destroy Islamic extremism.

 

[Unknown One]

Give me bacon or give me death. You can also replace bacon with eggs for me. I'm an egg slut.

 

[BronzeWolf]

Humans no longer need to eat meat to sustain their big brains.

This is true. But without meat, having a healthy diet is difficult, very difficult, and impossible even for some people. Without animal derivatives, I seriously doubt it's even feasible for more than a handful of people. The problem is just not subbing fat for fats, because animal fats differ greatly from plant fats, carbs for carbs, but most importantly, micronutrients like B, D and C vitamins and correct omega6mega3 ratios for lectins and supplements. It just doesn't work that well.

IE while it's true that the brain sustains itself on anything we give it, the choices of what our food is actually made have a much great impact on how well the body uses that food

Agricultural nutrition IS NOT the same as hunter-gatherer nutrition. Not even close to an equivalent

 

[Al-ibn Kermit]

*I'm kind of an expert on this topic

You probably said everything I would want to say better than I could say it but I'm just curious, what kind of work do you do?

 

[KtSlime]

You probably said everything I would want to say better than I could say it but I'm just curious, what kind of work do you do?

I'm an anthropology grad student. =)


BronzeWolf: Yeah, it can be harder - but that's what education is for. Switching to a drastically different diet without research is reckless behavior - no matter what the diet entails. However, I have been a very successful vegetarian for about 10 years now, and I seem to manage.

 

[BronzeWolf]

I'm an anthropology grad student. =)

Aw shoot, I thought you were a nutritionist

 

[DominoKid]

Bacon is fookin good. shocker.

 

[BronzeWolf]

I'm an anthropology grad student. =)


BronzeWolf: Yeah, it can be harder - but that's what education is for. Switching to a drastically different diet without research is reckless behavior - no matter what the diet entails. However, I have been a very successful vegetarian for about 10 years now, and I seem to manage.

I don't plan to attack your vegetarianism...

Spoiler

today

but I just want to say that "we don't need meat today" and "meat is actually very good for you" are not as compatible micro-biologically speaking as you think.

 

[Blue Ninja]

I have never been a vegetarian but I've always HATED bacon.

Ditto. It won't make me sick or anything, but I really, really don't like it. Nature, consider yourself beaten.

 

[KtSlime]

Aw shoot, I thought you were a nutritionist

Nope, sorry.

I do however know a number of nutritionalists. Some are pretty on the weird side. There is this one that advises her customers to remove everything from their diet and try different foods over a period of a month or so, trying to weed out which foods give you 'toxins'. She's about 2 degrees from being a germ theory denialist. =(

Edit: I got a secret, nuts, especially almonds. Although you are certainly right that eating meat can be healthy, I'd be insane to disagree - it's got fat and easily digestible proteins - a veritable stomach's wet dream.

 

[demon]

I used to not like bacon. Then I grew up and became a man, and I liked bacon. I want some bacon.

 

[Lakitu]

Bacon is lovely, nice smell and awesome taste. Now you made me hungry

 

[BronzeWolf]

Nope, sorry.

I do however know a number of nutritionalists. Some are pretty on the weird side. There is this one that advises her customers to remove everything from their diet and try different foods over a period of a month or so, trying to weed out which foods give you 'toxins'. She's about 2 degrees from being a germ theory denialist. =(

Edit: I got a secret, nuts, especially almonds. Although you are certainly right that eating meat can be healthy, I'd be insane to disagree - it's got fat and easily digestible proteins - a veritable stomach's wet dream.

surely MY stomach's wet dream of choice right now

 

[Dennis]

Once the bacon is fried and you drain off the fat bacon isn't really that greasy and heavy in calories. Its still super salty etc. - its not ever gonna be health food but it isn't so bad either.

I would worry more about all the carbs people eat and drink plus the lack of fruit and vegetables in the diet.

And remember to eat fish often kids.

/mom

 

[KtSlime]

surely MY stomach's wet dream of choice right now

Haha, you're OK.

But seriously, what everyone eats is their own business; if someone wants to give up meat I'm more than happy to help them, however I hate when I go out and someone calls me out for ordering the garden burger or whatever at a restaurant. I never call anyone out on ordering meat, I expect the same courtesy.

 

[Pandaman]

And last but not least; yes, it is true that during the formidable years of homo's evolution that we did in fact eat meat via scavenging and hunting; and that it is unlikely that we would have become such wonderfully social animals that can support a near infinite range of languages and communication had that not been the case - but, with a capital B. But, we do not need to continue eating meat - the great expansion of humans, the rise of cultures, civilizations, medicines, technologies - all of those are fueled by agriculture, typically of the plant variety.

while there's room to argue that plant alternatives to meat are not typically widely available outside the first world and that as a species we are still heavily dependant on meat products; im more interested in that last sentence.

i dont agree that plant farming should get the credit for all of that, i would personally place a greater importance on animal husbandry. You wanna talk about it?

 

[UnblessedSoul]

I always grill my bacon and cut the fat strip away after its done, there it's not as bad for you now