Support NeoGAF

[Haly]

All civilizations start with Agriculture and get Animal Husbandry later.

BAM.

Spoiler

Sorry I had to.

I always grill my bacon and cut the fat strip away after its done, there it's not as bad for you now

But now it's just ba, or con. The whole appeal of bacon comes from the fat and grease.

 

[KtSlime]

while there's room to argue that plant alternatives to meat are not typically widely available outside the first world and that as a species we are still heavily dependant on meat products; im more interested in that last sentence.

i dont agree that plant farming should get the credit for all of that, i would personally place a greater importance on animal husbandry. You wanna talk about it?

Animal husbandry is certainly an interesting and sexy topic.

That last sentence was fairly personal in the origin of its reasoning. Modern world culture has definitely been most effected by the tribes/cultures that formed around the Mediterranean and Levant - these are the areas where we got most of the Earth's domesticated animals.

Specifically the vector I think you might be coming from is domesticated animals used for traction and transportation, would you agree? Certainly those animals are very very important. But, if I think of a specific case of animals that are domesticated and are not used for their meat source I can think of dogs, cats, horses, and cows. While in many parts of the world some of these animals are eaten, in general I'd say that these are the animals that humans gain the most benefit without eating.

So as to make this not too long: your turn. =)

Edit: if that came off nasty, I didn't mean it to, I am actually interested in your view.

 

[Herbspiceguy]

I've had some 'vegetarian' periods only lasting for a year or 2. The last time this period ended was after I recovered from the flu and got an immense appetite for English style breakfast; bacon, eggs, beans in tomato sauce and sausages. I just continued to eat meat again after that. I do buy organic meat as much as possible, as the meat industry was one of the reasons to stop eating meat back then.

It's funny that today I'm going to make a Chinese dish with bacon's big brother; a piece of pork belly. It's called Dong Po pork. The pork belly is steamed for at least 3 hours so that the fat doesn't taste greasy and becomes a little gelatinous with layers of very soft pork in between.

 

[TheMissingLink]

As a vegetarian, you couldn't pay me to eat bacon.

 

[Pandaman]

Animal husbandry is certainly an interesting and sexy topic.

i also reserve the right to use fishing to weasel me out of things.

That last sentence was fairly personal in the origin of its reasoning. Modern world culture has definitely been most effected by the tribes/cultures that formed around the Mediterranean and Levant - these are the areas where we got most of the Earth's domesticated animals.

Specifically the vector I think you might be coming from is domesticated animals used for traction and transportation, would you agree? Certainly those animals are very very important. But, if I think of a specific case of animals that are domesticated and are not used for their meat source I can think of dogs, cats, horses, and cows. While in many parts of the world some of these animals are eaten, in general I'd say that these are the animals that humans gain the most benefit without eating.

So as to make this not too long: your turn. =)

while domestication did have alot of beenfits on the notjustforfood front, im going to be so bold and advance the position that agriculture took off because food crops were a stepping stone to maintaining human controlled animal populations to be used as food and would not have so successfully rooted itself into human civilization without its ability to fuel a steady source of meat.

so id mostly be appealing to cases where agriculture was attempted and failed to take off in areas lacking in local domesticatable species.

sorry i took so long, had to do some light reading to reconfirm my memory.

 

[storafötter]

Wha? That's the type of fat that clogs your arteries (basically any fat that re-solidifies after melting is very bad for you in the long run).

I would agree with your statement. However there are studies that say that saturated fat by itself isn't necessary dangerous but depends on how its adsorbed. Like Cholesterol and Saturated fat together is a bad mix. Coconut has mostly saturated fat, but is regarded very healthy and doesn't give the same bad effects as cholesterol filled food with saturated fat (according to certain science). It could be true that there has not been any decisive study that has led to showing that saturate fat is always bad for you.

I don't think personally saturated fat is any good if you get much of it. Way better with polyunsaturated fats.

Anyways to this topic, it is incredibly stupid. Pure speculation and it doesn't stop there. Spices add a lot to smell too. Of course Bacon can be noticed by smell, but why wouldn't it be the same with other meat dishes too?

Another logic it fails to add to the equation is that most vegetarians have been eating meat for a much longer time than not. You were raised with this habit and smell. It is very likely you loved eating bacon too if it tempts you, due to past habits.

 

[Always-honest]

As a vegetarian, you couldn't pay me to eat bacon.

but it still smells fucking great doesn't it?

 

[KtSlime]

i also reserve the right to use fishing to weasel me out of things.


while domestication did have alot of beenfits on the notjustforfood front, im going to be so bold and advance the position that agriculture took off because food crops were a stepping stone to maintaining human controlled animal populations to be used as food and would not have so successfully rooted itself into human civilization without its ability to fuel a steady source of meat.

so id mostly be appealing to cases where agriculture was attempted and failed to take off in areas lacking in local domesticatable species.

sorry i took so long, had to do some light reading to reconfirm my memory.

What about agriculture in North America which did not have any domesticated animals outside of the dog? India where cattle are sacred due to their ability to move the plow, and provide dung (fertilizer) and milk; and since they are sacred to the Hindu it is a taboo to eat them or defile them (however there are some in the unscheduled castes that are forced to go against this taboo due to economics).

I think that eating meat is highly cultural, and I can trace back this notion of masculinity, culture, and wealth back to early Greek writing.

If agriculture got a heavy push in development for the express purpose of feeding livestock it would be an occurrence that is a fairly modern, and particular to our (western) culture and has subsequently been spread to other cultures recently.

I'd like to continue this, however it has gotten late and I need to go to bed.

If the thread is still alive when I get up tomorrow I'll continue to post in it, if not; see you guys in another topic. =)

 

[storafötter]

This is true. But without meat, having a healthy diet is difficult, very difficult, and impossible even for some people. Without animal derivatives, I seriously doubt it's even feasible for more than a handful of people. The problem is just not subbing fat for fats, because animal fats differ greatly from plant fats, carbs for carbs, but most importantly, micronutrients like B, D and C vitamins and correct omega6mega3 ratios for lectins and supplements. It just doesn't work that well.

IE while it's true that the brain sustains itself on anything we give it, the choices of what our food is actually made have a much great impact on how well the body uses that food

Agricultural nutrition IS NOT the same as hunter-gatherer nutrition. Not even close to an equivalent

When it comes to correct omega6mega3 rations, people relying on meat and dairy products are struggly with this too. As an example in Norway there is a push for people to take Omega 3 supplements, and we are a fish loving society who thrives on eating more fish traditionally than not. It is true that you got more opportunities if you rely on animals, but when it comes to it being very difficult when not relying on meat is wrong on many fronts. You can get good proportions if you pay attention to what you eat at times. Yes the Omega 3 in flaxseeds (as an example) has to be converted inside the body before it becomes the active form such as in fish. However how expensive is it to buy and grind flaxseed? Its incredibly cheap. It is always very accessible and easy to find in your grocery store.
If you want to calculate additionally how much benefits you get for doing so, the anti inflammatory effects, and many other great documented health benefits. Despite Omega 3 in healthy fish being a more active one, the Omega 3 from flaxseed still is as functional despite the process taking a bit longer to adjust. What I am trying to say is that it doesn't have to be difficult or impossible to make sure your rations are balanced. Knowledge is the key, and many people lack this on all fronts.

Vegetarians, get their fix through dairy products when it comes to important things like B12 which hard to this age and day to just get from the soil and absord (like how animals do it). Being in my situation where I don't eat anything animal based, I have to rely on B12 supplements.

D Vitamins are not available in dairy products, except being fortified so of course that causes a complicated situation when you live in a country without much sun exposure. However the problem with D vitamins is also related to peoples unhealthy lazy habits of keeping away from the sun. There isn't that much sun exposure that is needed in order to get 10 000 IU of D3 (half an hour in the sun). If the sun isn't around the whole winter you either have to get Vitamin D from Fish, fortification or supplements. I personally take supplements for D Vitamin until the spring arrives.

However these fat soluble Vitamins do stay in the body for a while, so it is not necessary to repeatedly absorb these all the time. The same can be said with B vitamins.
When you speak unspecific about what B vitamins cause problems with vegetarians, I am sorry to say this then you don't know what you are talking about. If you eat a proper vegetarian diet with plants, grains, legumes and dairy you won't ever have any B vitamin deficiency. The problem here is those vegetarians who ate terribly even before they became vegetarian. They suddenly cut the "meat" source with the B vitamins, Iron and don't supplement it with vegetables, salads, legumes and grains. When you do such you are walking towards a dangerous path.

I know I can say this with confidence I speak with experience. I know plenty people who are incredibly stupid when going into a vegetarian/vegan diet, because they keep eating pasta and processed food expecting the body to keep functioning by itself. This is not a problem mainly with vegetarians/vegans, however when they get rid of their previous main source of certain minerals and vitamins (without finding alternatives) it is obvious that a malnutrition will start growing. Thinking of your health as an afterthought is terrible and everyones guilty of this.

However if they eat like how they are supposed to, which does not mean monitoring every single step what you eat. You will live a very functional life as a vegetarian (don't need any supplements either, unless the sun factor is terrible like high up north). It doesn't hurt to add additional supplements too (low risk with water soluble vitamins, like the extra benefits of Vitamin C), but people shouldn't be relying on it instead of eating a varied diet.

Why do you bring it up Vitamin C? There are no hardship in getting Vitamin C these days, due to fruit, berries being readily available during all seasons (the same with juice).

This post wasn't to bash everything you said. I respect your opinion and you seem to have a better knowledge of things than many people. However in terms of nutrition and when you speak out like this, it sounds to me like some speculation. A lot of things you say is true, but when you state boldly about vegetarians having a real hard time it is important to distinct and define what you mean with vegetarians and be specific with what nutritions they will be having a hard time with.

 

[ShirAhava]

Bacon (and pork in general) is why I stopped eating meat in the first place stuff is gross

 

[timetokill]

As a vegetarian, you couldn't pay me to eat bacon.

Everybody has a price.

 

[ch0mp]

Wha? That's the type of fat that clogs your arteries (basically any fat that re-solidifies after melting is very bad for you in the long run).

I think you have confused saturated with trans fat (the hydrogenated kind). Pretty much any naturally occurring fat/oil is not unhealthy.

 

[DAVIDHUXLEY]

Will stick with this>
http://www.morningstarfarms.com/products_veggie-bacon-strips.aspx

As of this post , best bacon flavored cardboard ever.

 

[WrenchNinja]

I can only enjoy bacon when it's in that breakfast package. Scrambled eggs, sausage, bacon, some toast, orange juice.

Any other way, I can't enjoy it.

 

[Zomba13]

This topic has inspired me to have bacon right now.

 

[Salazar]

As a vegetarian, you couldn't pay me to eat bacon.

What a preposterous scenario.

I'd force you to eat it.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I don't know how someone could go without eating meat

We aren't herbivores, it can't be healthy, and it's just unnatural anyway.


The Panda decided he wanted to be a vegetarian instead of following what his body wanted, and look where that got him!



Also, I have bacon in my freezer right now!

 

[hydragonwarrior]

Bacon tastes amazing when it's done right (crispy, crunchy, not overly salty) and you haven't had it in a while. Not sure what the replacement is as a vegetarian, but i doubt there would be as bacon is pretty damn unhealthy lol.

Either way, hopefully this thread doesn't turn into another annoying vegetarian-hate fest.

 

[kinoki]

Not sure what the replacement is as a vegetarian, but i doubt there would be as bacon is pretty damn unhealthy lol.

Bacon is unhealthy? Since when? Perhaps if you pour massive amounts of extra fats and salt on it. But bacon itself is very damned healthy.

 

[The Friendly Monster]

Bacon is unhealthy? Since when? Perhaps if you pour massive amounts of extra fats and salt on it. But bacon itself is very damned healthy.

You're insane. Bacon is high in fat and salt.

 

[storafötter]

Bacon tastes amazing when it's done right (crispy, crunchy, not overly salty) and you haven't had it in a while. Not sure what the replacement is as a vegetarian, but i doubt there would be as bacon is pretty damn unhealthy lol.

Either way, hopefully this thread doesn't turn into another annoying vegetarian-hate fest.

Actually many faux bacon meats are very unhealthy as they use trans-fats and bad chemicals to isolate protein from soy (not to forget US based soy is GMO). The problem is a lot of people think its healthier because its not a commercial bacon product. Hydrogenated fat is a billion times worse than Saturated ones. You can make it without these things, but commercial products producers don't care.

 

[Seep]

Norfolk black mother fuckers, just try and resist it's bacony awesomeness!

 

[Shaka]

Bacon's overrated.

 

[WrikaWrek]

I hate bacon.

 

[teh_pwn]

Fat aside, Bacon's another issue entirely. Nitrates have been linked to heart disease.

Then don't eat leafy green vegetables, they are loaded with nitrates.
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/06/nitrate-protective-factor-in-leafy.html

I would be more concerned with the quality of the meat and the n-6 fat content that is correlated with high nitrate meats, like hot dogs for example.

 

[teh_pwn]

I would agree with your statement. However there are studies that say that saturated fat by itself isn't necessary dangerous but depends on how its adsorbed. Like Cholesterol and Saturated fat together is a bad mix. Coconut has mostly saturated fat, but is regarded very healthy and doesn't give the same bad effects as cholesterol filled food with saturated fat (according to certain science). It could be true that there has not been any decisive study that has led to showing that saturate fat is always bad for you.

I don't think personally saturated fat is any good if you get much of it. Way better with polyunsaturated fats.

Anyways to this topic, it is incredibly stupid. Pure speculation and it doesn't stop there. Spices add a lot to smell too. Of course Bacon can be noticed by smell, but why wouldn't it be the same with other meat dishes too?

Another logic it fails to add to the equation is that most vegetarians have been eating meat for a much longer time than not. You were raised with this habit and smell. It is very likely you loved eating bacon too if it tempts you, due to past habits.

I don't think the cholesterol correlation is anything close to causation. Take a read here whenever you get a chance:
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/01/does-dietary-saturated-fat-increase.html
http://www.paleonu.com/panu-weblog/2010/7/21/statins-and-the-cholesterol-hypothesis-part-i.html

Really the whole cholesterol and heart disease stuff is based on Ancel Keys 7 countries study, in which Ancel correlated dietary fat intake with heart disease among 7 countries. There were actually several more countries, but he removed high fat + low heart disease countries like France and nordic countries. He also removed low fat and high heart disease countries like Chile. Personally, I put this sort of study in the same category as tabloids and horoscopes. As time went on in the 60s-today, each dietary fat was redeemed, until just saturated fat remained as evil. We found that some polyunsaturated fats are good, like omega9, omega3, and even omega6 if you are somehow deficient. Monounsaturated fats were found to be good. Despite evidence of saturated fats being harmless, the dogma has remained. Government and dietitians don't want to admit that they were completely wrong.

You're insane. Bacon is high in fat and salt.

Why is a high fat and high protein diet unhealthy? For nearly all of human evolution, that's what man ate. Meat, fish, fruit, vegetables, insects, nuts. No caveman would harvest wheat and grind seeds. You would die because it would take too many calories to create food, and because phytic acid would cause mineral deficiencies.

Now excess salt is probably bad.

 

[Tedesco!]

I find this article to be amusing.

At work, about once a month, we have "bacon Friday". Two of us cook a bunch of bacon, while everyone else brings a food that compliments said bacon. One of the people who participates is a vegetarian. I'll have to remember to show this to her.

 

[LabouredSubterfuge]

I came in here expecting to discover the secrets of Kevin Bacon's psycho-social influence. I leave disappointed.

 

[PjotrStroganov]

mmmm, bacon. BRB making bacon.

5 minutes later: omnomnom BACON!!

By making, do you mean slaughtering a pig yourself?

 

[Boogiepop]

Hm, Bacon probably was, like, the one meat I "gave up," thinking back on things (possible exception to chili dogs, but that was more that damn Sonic show's fault than actual care for the food), but honestly it was more of a "this is a meat I'm not directly opposed to." As a vegetarian who became that way at least halfway because of taste (never could stand chicken, beef, seafood, etc), I think I'm pretty safe in staying this way...

 

[I AM JOHN!]

Foods not improved with the addition of bacon:

 

[ethic]

Sorry I can't let this slide. If ape-diet is the natural for us, then big game hunting tools weren't needed. Why is it that all through history, we find ample evidence of big game hunting tools like spears, arrowheads and projectiles found?

Why is it that all pictograph evidence shows hunting as an exalted activity

Even Chimpanzees, humans closest relative, hunt meat.

 

[lunarworks]

My brother was a vegetarian for about a year.

One night he was at his friend's house, and they all had the munchies. The only food in the house was frozen chicken wings.

That was the last day he was a vegetarian.

 

[KtSlime]

What a preposterous scenario.

I'd force you to eat it.

You'd best not; I'm my book that's pretty close to rape, to force or deceive someone into doing something you clearly know is against their desires and beliefs.

*I know you are kidding, but if I found someone trying to do that to me, I would be pretty pissed.

 

[LFG]

i eat bacon everyday, yummy

 

[Kermit The Dog]

Humans no longer need to eat meat to sustain their big brains.

*I'm kind of an expert on this topic

But then that's not a good enough reason not to, right?

I can understand vegetarianism from a moral, animal-welfare angle. Otherwise, I think it's an absolutely baffling mentality.

 

[lunarworks]

You'd best not; I'm my book that's pretty close to rape...

He's gonna make you squeal like a pig...

 

[teh_pwn]

Homo sapiens neaderthalensis did have a larger brain, but that was a cold environment survival tactic. The larger the mass of something, the less energy is expended in keeping heat.

Now, the fact that animals that eat meat are 'smarter' isn't quite right: the ones you are referring to are pack hunting animals. So, it seems that there is a correlation between how social a species is, and how smart it is.

Gorillas are not dumb, they have a different niche, and they have different survival tactics than chimpanzees - they use fewer tools because they don't need to use them.

And last but not least; yes, it is true that durring the formidable years of homo's evolution that we did in fact eat meat via scavenging and hunting; and that it is unlikely that we would have become such wonderfully social animals that can support a near infinite range of languages and communication had that not been the case - but, with a capital B. But, we do not need to continue eating meat - the great expansion of humans, the rise of cultures, civilizations, medicines, technologies - all of those are fueled by agriculture, typically of the plant variety.

Humans no longer need to eat meat to sustain their big brains.

*I'm kind of an expert on this topic

I actually agree somewhat. We need more study on how to provide the equivalent nutrition to humans, but it could be done. For example, long chain omega3s created in a vegetarian way would be good for you all. I think vegetarianism if done right works with most people. If you have kids, be sure to test them for food allergies to soy, grains, legumes. If they just can't tolerate it, adjust things (more eggs/dairy?).

 

[KtSlime]

But then that's not a good enough reason not to, right?

I can understand vegetarianism from a moral, animal-welfare angle. Otherwise, I think it's an absolutely baffling mentality.

How about this:

Maybe I don't live as well as most meat eaters, IE: I have to pay a bit more attention to what I eat, I need to plan out things just a little bit, I may have to pay a couple of cents more to eat at a restaurant, or I might get some colorful commentary on my actions. These things are a form of anguish, suffering, call it whatever you will.

Now an animal when it is killed to be fed to a human, suffers, period - now you can rationalize that it isn't much, that the killing method is quick and mostly painless, that the animal when dead can't even realize that it is dead (and as an atheist as well I can point out that people, once dead also can not feel pain or reflect on their death).

The difference between my slight discomfort from not eating meat, and the *slight* pain an animal receives upon its death is different in this one very important way, one is a choice. I choose to be slightly discomforted so as to not cause the suffering of others. Easy.

The suffering of animals, no matter how trivial is not of their own choice; so I choose to not participate in that system - or rather to minimize my participation.

I don't know how you got that my argument for not eating meat was that we don't need to; I was pointing out a fact. However, considering that we don't need to eat meat, I ask you; is it worth the price? Is the suffering of another creature worth that 3 seconds of pleasure you gain from the flavor? For me the answer is no, however you are free to choose one way or another - I won't stop you, nor will I even comment on it until you try to talk about how 'baffling' my belief in not wanting to hurt others is.

 

[storafötter]

I don't think the cholesterol correlation is anything close to causation. Take a read here whenever you get a chance:
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/01/does-dietary-saturated-fat-increase.html
http://www.paleonu.com/panu-weblog/2010/7/21/statins-and-the-cholesterol-hypothesis-part-i.html

Really the whole cholesterol and heart disease stuff is based on Ancel Keys 7 countries study, in which Ancel correlated dietary fat intake with heart disease among 7 countries. There were actually several more countries, but he removed high fat + low heart disease countries like France and nordic countries. He also removed low fat and high heart disease countries like Chile. Personally, I put this sort of study in the same category as tabloids and horoscopes. As time went on in the 60s-today, each dietary fat was redeemed, until just saturated fat remained as evil. We found that some polyunsaturated fats are good, like omega9, omega3, and even omega6 if you are somehow deficient. Monounsaturated fats were found to be good. Despite evidence of saturated fats being harmless, the dogma has remained. Government and dietitians don't want to admit that they were completely wrong.

Will read thanks, sounds very interesting.

 

[Kaako]

Never really had the desire for bacon.

 

[teh_pwn]

Now an animal when it is killed to be fed to a human, suffers, period - now you can rationalize that it isn't much, that the killing method is quick and mostly painless, that the animal when dead can't even realize that it is dead (and as an atheist as well I can point out that people, once dead also can not feel pain or reflect on their death).

The difference between my slight discomfort from not eating meat, and the *slight* pain an animal receives upon its death is different in this one very important way, one is a choice. I choose to be slightly discomforted so as to not cause the suffering of others. Easy.

The suffering of animals, no matter how trivial is not of their own choice; so I choose to not participate in that system - or rather to minimize my participation.

So how do you mitigate the number of animals killed in clearing fields for grains and legumes? Insects, rodents, snakes, birds, wild game not only have their natural habitat destroyed, but are intentionally killed off to protect the crops. And what about the large amounts of petroleum used to create fertilizer? Are there types of farms that you select that minimize this - like organic fertilizers? Some sort of farming technique that minimizes environmental damage and pests to kill?

I'm not trying to pick a fight or anything. I'm genuinely curious. For me, I buy pastured meat. I think vegetables and fruit interfere less with the natural habitat more than grain fields, but I could be wrong.

 

[kittens]

Hahaha, about a third of my friends are vegan, and this has definitely been true for some of them.

 

[KtSlime]

So how do you mitigate the number of animals killed in clearing fields for grains and legumes? Insects, rodents, snakes, birds, wild game not only have their natural habitat destroyed, but are intentionally killed off to protect the crops. And what about the large amounts of petroleum used to create fertilizer? Are there types of farms that you select that minimize this - like organic fertilizers? Some sort of farming technique that minimizes environmental damage and pests to kill?

I'm not trying to pick a fight or anything. I'm genuinely curious. For me, I buy pastured meat. I think vegetables and fruit interfere less with the natural habitat more than grain fields, but I could be wrong.

The majority of my diet is derived from fruits and nuts, however wheat(dave's killer bread is awesome) and legume products I try to buy local - I live on the west coast, so there is a pretty heavy push for the whole organic, free range(eggs) etc resources - it also helps that I have a small garden where I get most of my greens/beans/squash. I know that I can't stop pain/suffering/death, but I do want to distance myself as much as possible; and I think awareness is the key. I think it is fantastic when someone goes out of their way to at least recognize the difference in their food/meat source - and I commend you for it.

 

[demon]

The majority of my diet is derived from fruits and nuts,

Hey, if you can manage that, then more power to ya, cuz it's better for the environment and whatnot. But........jesus f'ing christ how?

 

[KtSlime]

Hey, if you can manage that, then more power to ya, cuz it's better for the environment and whatnot. But........jesus f'ing christ how?

I'm not a very large person and I have a relatively show metabolism; I estimate my daily caloric intake to be around 1500 kcals.

2 apples, a banana, 2 servings of almonds, a salad with tomato and a bit of dressing, slice of bread with peanut butter, zucchini, green beans, an orange, black beans and rice; that's probably pretty close to what I need in a day. It's not that hard - maybe majority is an exaggeration - half is probably closer to the truth, but it varies from day to day.

 

[BronzeWolf]

When it comes to correct omega6mega3 rations, people relying on meat and dairy products are struggly with this too. As an example in Norway there is a push for people to take Omega 3 supplements, and we are a fish loving society who thrives on eating more fish traditionally than not. It is true that you got more opportunities if you rely on animals, but when it comes to it being very difficult when not relying on meat is wrong on many fronts. You can get good proportions if you pay attention to what you eat at times. Yes the Omega 3 in flaxseeds (as an example) has to be converted inside the body before it becomes the active form such as in fish. However how expensive is it to buy and grind flaxseed? Its incredibly cheap. It is always very accessible and easy to find in your grocery store.

Yes, correct n6:3 ratios can be obtained with plants, but the omega3 found in plants just doesn't convert into the chain n3 the body uses fast enough. Animal n6:3 from fish and pasteured rumiant meat are already almost in the useful chain form for the body, so meat is almost exclusively the only single handedly way to get a correct ratio.

Just because plants have a good ratio of n6:3, it doesn't mean it's "as effective" as animal n6:3, because they need to be processed in order to be usable.

If you want to calculate additionally how much benefits you get for doing so, the anti inflammatory effects, and many other great documented health benefits.

Ant inflammatory is a buzz word. Those are not exclusive to plants, and you can't get anti-inflammatory benefits without the whole bunch of antinutrients in plants. At least not with home cooking

Despite Omega 3 in healthy fish being a more active one, the Omega 3 from flaxseed still is as functional despite the process taking a bit longer to adjust.

It is not, the higher dose of Omega6 will be already circulating in your blood by the time the Omega3 is even half of being processed. The inflammation that occurs in this process is not turned over by the delayed Omega3

A lot of things you say is true, but when you state boldly about vegetarians having a real hard time it is important to distinct and define what you mean with vegetarians and be specific with what nutritions they will be having a hard time with.

I am not trying to bash you either. I didn't quote what I know you are saying is true, but it's really rare the case of the vegetarian who does know that their diet choices are not ideal. And by ideal I mean the most effective way of geting their nutrition, which is why I mentioned B12, D3 and C (meat is the most excellent source of vitamin C's there is). Crazy, I know, but it happens.

I have found that people in general are very ignorant to what they put in their bodies and go around making weird and objectively wrong choices. This is not bad per-se, but some vegetarians think general nutrition facts don't apply to them.

Again, this is not a bash on veggie-gaf, or you personally.

Also, people need to realize that some of us can't be vegetarian. Ever. No matter how well they eat, how well they supplement and how healthy their lifestyle, their body processes the sub-optimal plant nutrients just too slowly to be of use. People shouldn't feel bad because they can't be veggies, as people shouldn't feel bad about being meat eaters

 

[toxicgonzo]

It's addicting man, I'm up to 3 strips a day.

 

[BronzeWolf]

You're insane. Bacon is high in fat and salt.

meat is high in fat and salt. meat is healthy. Point?

 

[Zenith]

Yuck, that's not bacon. It's fat with tiny streaks of meat in it. This is bacon: