Support NeoGAF

[King Tubby]

I always thought of the Grammys as the least meaningful of the real major industry awards (i.e. Emmys, Oscars, etc). Don't even know how you can evaluate it given how incredibly immense and diverse the output of music is every year.

 

[Dead]

I don't particularly care for Kendrick Lamar or Taylor Swift, but I think that much like the Oscars, this is a product of who is voting for these albums. I will field a guess that the voting body of the Grammies is compromised of very many older white males, for most of whom hip-hop tends to be a pretty unpalatable genre of music to listen to.

Grammies have been a joke for decades now anyways. nevermind the winners, the nominations themselves are a shitshow.

 

[hidys]

Dumb question: who picks the winners? Is there a particular voting body like the Academy for movies? How many people are involved?

I'd like to know this as well.

I'd be shocked if it isn't a body of almost exclusively old white men.

 

[vern]

Not really Yet Another XXX signifies something that has not evolved, by the numbers. Which is exactly what 1989, there is no real growth from Taylor unless you count dropping her fake twang and country based producers. Subject matter remains the same, most of the songs are empty hollow nonsense.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with this at all, but when compared to TPAB I just can't take anyone serious who says 1989 definitely should have won over TPAB.

I haven't even heard 1989. I just thought using random acronyms would be cool. Kendrick is great but the Grammys are bullshit. No reason to pay them any mind, IMO. Just enjoy the good music that comes out each year and don't trip on who gets what accolades. Doesn't make the music and better or worse if old white people cant appreciate it and award it.

 

[SimpleGamer]

Not really Yet Another XXX signifies something that has not evolved, by the numbers. Which is exactly what 1989, there is no real growth from Taylor unless you count dropping her fake twang and country based producers. Subject matter remains the same, most of the songs are empty hollow nonsense.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with this at all, but when compared to TPAB I just can't take anyone serious who says 1989 definitely should have won over TPAB.

This is exactly how I feel, TPAB was an obvious win but it's the Grammys.

 

[Arc]

All this whining is fucking silly. Its the Grammy's. Who cares.

Of course its a popularity contest, the fact that Kendrick is performing is because his music is popular.

You guys bash Taylor Swift (who actually put out a fantastic pop record) and claim that King Kendrick was snubbed due to what? His album selling less?

Hip hop is a respected genre in the mainstream. It's everywhere. Why do you need some record company awards ceremony to validate King Kendrick's greatness?

Sheesh.

I think Kendrick threads will be the new tipping threads.

 

[riotous]

I mean it's a simple issue isn't it?

Grammy's are voted on by people who've applied to vote who have some sort of industry experience.

Likely not enough hip hop fans as voters.

The End

I know it sucks and is disappointing but it's not really a complicated issue.

I mean Pearl Jam won the "Best hard rock" album for the same reason all those years ago; not enough hard rock fans as voters so the most palatable nominee wins.

 

[Glorified G]

It's a Grammy. Teen choice awards are arguably more prestigious. Some people spend way to much analyzing this award when it's so superfluous. It's more for record execs to pat themselves on the back for album sales and hits than anything else.

 

[Bronx-Man]

Mediocre pop gets the award over iconic hip-hop. When am I supposed to be surprised?

 

[Valhelm]

who should have won?

Literally any of these

 

[aeolist]

as a heavy metal fan i laugh at this whole charade

grammys have been a bad joke for decades

 

[Mortemis]

All this whining is fucking silly. Its the Grammy's. Who cares.

Of course its a popularity contest, the fact that Kendrick is performing is because his music is popular.

You guys bash Taylor Swift (who actually put out a fantastic pop record) and claim that King Kendrick was snubbed due to what? His album selling less?

Hip hop is a respected genre in the mainstream. It's everywhere. Why do you need some record company awards ceremony to validate King Kendrick's greatness?

Sheesh.

I think Kendrick threads will be the new tipping threads.

It's clearly not respected in the Grammy's, which, surprise! That's what this thread is about!

Lol @ comparing this to tipping threads, go cool off

 

[Rpgmonkey]

This probably is a "problem" that won't change until some of the current people who vote for the albums start getting cycled out. And that's being kinda optimistic.

Is what it is, that's basically why hip-hop kinda exists in its own bubble in terms of which artists and albums are most respected.

 

[Surface of Me]

It's clearly not respected in the Grammy's, which, surprise! That's what this thread is about!

Didnt Kendrick win 5 Grammys this year tho?

 

[hidys]

Literally any of these

Damn straight.

Hell I would have been happy with Carly Rae Jepsen's E-MO-TION.

But TPAB is the real answer. That album will be talked about for decades.

 

[Kusagari]

Didnt Kendrick win 5 Grammys this year tho?

He won Grammy's in the rap ghetto.

This is what Kanye has ranted about for years. You can only win when up against other black rappers.

 

[Mortemis]

Didnt Kendrick win 5 Grammys this year tho?

Did you read the OP? The Grammy voters, whoever they are, are perfectly fine voting for hip hop acts in their own categories, but don't feel inclined at all to do it in their major categories like AOTY. How is that respecting the genre if you rarely ever have it win the big awards?

 

[Jmanunknown]

Dumb question: who picks the winners? Is there a particular voting body like the Academy for movies? How many people are involved?

The Grammy voting process is a tiered system. Musicians and labels can submit recorded music to the Recording Academy for consideration. A group of 150 Grammy Academy members receive each submission to make sure it meets the qualifications for being considered for a Grammy in that year for which it has been submitted. The individual members of each group that votes for which submission they want to see nominated in which category.

These votes are tabulated and the five leading vote getters in each category become the Grammy nominees.

At this stage, voting is opened up to all voting members of the Recording Academy - these are members who have been credited on at least six commercially released songs (credits can be technical or creative). Recording Academy members can vote in each general category (i.e., Song of the Year) and a limited number of subcategories. These votes are then counted, and the winner in each category becomes the Grammy winner.

That is what I got from googling it.

Also

To become a voting member of the association an individual may apply who is a music industry professional with creative or technical credits on six commercially released tracks (or their equivalent) in physically available music (e.g. vinyl and CDs) or twelve tracks of music sold online.

At least one of the qualifying tracks must have been released within five years of applying to be a voting member. The music must be currently available for purchase through recognized music retailers. The credits may include vocalists, conductors, songwriters, composers, engineers, producers, instrumentalists, arrangers, art directors, album notes writers, narrators and music video artists and technicians. Anyone nominated for a Grammy Award within the previous five years is automatically eligible to be a voting member.

If an individual does not meet the above criteria, they still may apply to be a voting member with endorsement from current Recording Academy voting members.

They must be endorsed by at least two current voting members. The application is then reviewed by member services and may be sent to a local chapter committee for additional consideration.

 

[Bold One]

All this whining is fucking silly. Its the Grammy's. Who cares.

Of course its a popularity contest, the fact that Kendrick is performing is because his music is popular.

You guys bash Taylor Swift (who actually put out a fantastic pop record) and claim that King Kendrick was snubbed due to what? His album selling less?

Hip hop is a respected genre in the mainstream. It's everywhere. Why do you need some record company awards ceremony to validate King Kendrick's greatness?

Sheesh.

I think Kendrick threads will be the new tipping threads.

For me this has nothing to do with Kendrick, its just too easy to dismiss the issue with that viewpoint,

Honest to god, I can't tell one Taylor Swift song from another, it would be great if an institution like the Grammys took some risks and rewarded ingenuity as opposed to whatever is being overplayed on the radio

 

[udiie]

even the rap category was a complete joke
didnt even include DS2, Summertime 06, etc.

 

[nillah]

Please let this thread be civil.

Please let this thread make sense.

Kdot won an award, what's the problem?

 

[Killer Queen]

as a heavy metal fan i laugh at this whole charade

grammys have been a bad joke for decades

At least this year was better

Spoiler

lamb of God and Knot were robbed

 

[Psychological Intellect]

Literally any of these

I mean fuck the Grammys and everything but how was Carrie and Lowell not nominated for anything?

 

[riotous]

For me this has nothing to do with Kendrick, its just too easy to dismiss the issue with that viewpoint,

Honest to god, I can't tell one Taylor Swift song from another, it would be great if an institution like the Grammys took some risks and rewarded ingenuity as opposed to whatever is being overplayed on the radio

It's a bunch of voters from the industry; The Grammy's isn't one single thing that can reward anyone outside of the fact they put the show on and choose which artists perform.

This "problem" really can only be solved by more hip hop industry vets signing up to be voters.

 

[Mimosa97]

Literally any of these

AGREED

 

[Killer Queen]

Literally any of these

What're the third and fourth ones? The album art looks cool and what kinda music is it?

 

[Gotdatmoney]

even the rap category was a complete joke
didnt even include DS2, Summertime 06, etc.

The only things nominated in the best Rap Album I would genuinely say were good projects are TPAB and Forest Hillz Drive.

I love me some Drizzy but "If You're Reading This It's Too Late" is literally shit Drake threw together even if I enjoy it.

 

[Hasphat'sAnts]

I mean fuck the Grammys and everything but how was Carrie and Lowell not nominated for anything?

It's Indie. Literally zero representation among the voters

 

[Premium Quality]

This isn't new. Many years back The Chronic wasn't nominated for any Grammy.
Rock music also get screwed around. Just ask Metallica.

You guys need to stop taking the Grammys seriously, they've been a joke for decades now.

 

[cdyhybrid]

All this whining is fucking silly. Its the Grammy's. Who cares.

Of course its a popularity contest, the fact that Kendrick is performing is because his music is popular.

You guys bash Taylor Swift (who actually put out a fantastic pop record) and claim that King Kendrick was snubbed due to what? His album selling less?

Hip hop is a respected genre in the mainstream. It's everywhere. Why do you need some record company awards ceremony to validate King Kendrick's greatness?

Sheesh.

I think Kendrick threads will be the new tipping threads.

Take some deep breaths.

 

[rtcn63]

As someone who actually likes Taylor Swift's music, 1989 was a regression. She wrote her first three albums entirely by herself (supposedly, could just be another move by her handlers), and although they straddled some weird line between country, pop, and a very naive teenager who can't seem to take any of the relationship blame on herself, they never went full generic. 1989 is the culmination of what everyone who hates her music expects it to be- catchy but mostly bland and empty, with the somewhat memorable parts written by someone else. The album barely even adheres to the '80s motif, with one of the tracks basically being a paid advertisement. (Welcome to New York)

That said, it's also what makes it perfectly acceptable that 1989 won a Grammy.

 

[hodayathink]

The numbers presented as 'the problem' don't support the articles conclusions.

There is no under-representation present, from nominations to wins. Arguing over individual decisions is one thing, but to imply there is systemic racism at the Grammys (ala the Academy) is debunked by the statistics.

The Grammys gets to be better about nominations/wins because they award individual categories (it'd be like combining the PGA, DGA, SAG and Golden Globes together and calling it the Oscars). What the article is talking about is the few categories where all music genres are competing against one another (Best New Artist, Record/Song/Album of the Year primarily).

 

[BennyBlanco]

I don't even really like Taylor Swift but it was a good album. Glad she won.

 

[MogCakes]

Kendrick deserved it easily. But pop acts have always won out over rap so nothing new.

 

[Jmanunknown]

It's a bunch of voters from the industry; The Grammy's isn't one single thing that can reward anyone outside of the fact they put the show on and choose which artists perform.

This "problem" really can only be solved by more hip hop industry vets signing up to be voters.

That will not help, the hip hop industry vets that are voting would still be out numbered by the other voting members. It goes back to this from the op's article

A savvy producer knows to give a platform to a performance whose politics he doesn’t support, at least, when it’s sure to bring in more viewers and in turn more money. He knows that excluding a genre of music made up largely of black people is a bad look, so he brings them into the fold, gives them a stage, offers them a set of rap-specific trophies to share among themselves, and watches the ratings rise. But when it comes time to reward their work as compared to the biggest pop and rock acts of the day, well, there’s always next time.

Its like seperate but equal.

 

[Valhelm]

What're the third and fourth ones? The album art looks cool and what kinda music is it?

Click the images!

The third is I Love You Honeybear, second album by Father John Misty. It's a folk-pop exploration of singer Josh Tillman's relationship with his wife Emma, very tongue-in-cheek with its sentimentality but also really beautiful. He brings in a 1940s Hollywood vibe in the instrumentation, which really complements all of his amazing melodies.

The fourth album, Sun and Moon, is probably the best record of the year. Released by the super-obscure singer Timbre, it's a mix of post-rock and contemporary classical composition with arrangements so lavish and vocalizations so complex that she makes Joanna Newsom seem like Taylor Swift. Listen to her album out as soon as you can.

 

[theignoramus]

Its baby boomers who dont consider rap on the same musical level as genres that involve greater emphasis on melody and harmony.

 

[lastflowers]

<List of great albums>
Literally any of these

i like u

 

[blame space]

does anyone even care about granny awards

 

[NervousXtian]

Kendrick wins 5 Grammy's and people still pissed he didn't win AOTY?

Taylor Swift released an amazing pop album, one of the best in years. I'm not a huge fan of hers, but it's a very well made album of pop songs, literally just hit after hit after hit.

I thought TPAB was a good album, though I think it's a good step below on the whole than GKMC... A lot of TPAB I just skip through these days to get to the few tracks I still like.. I can put on GKMC and just start to finish it still to this day.

I thought the best hip-hop album of 2015 was I Don't Like Shit, I Don't Go Outside by Early Sweatshirt.

Just being nominated for a Grammy is a fucking victory, this whole focus on losing is just lame.

...and damn that's like the most Pitchforky list of albums ever by Valhelm with no theme at all to tie them together... it's like "hey look at me, I like cool music!!"

 

[torre_avenue]

All this whining is fucking silly. Its the Grammy's. Who cares.

Of course its a popularity contest, the fact that Kendrick is performing is because his music is popular.

You guys bash Taylor Swift (who actually put out a fantastic pop record) and claim that King Kendrick was snubbed due to what? His album selling less?

Hip hop is a respected genre in the mainstream. It's everywhere. Why do you need some record company awards ceremony to validate King Kendrick's greatness?

Sheesh.

I think Kendrick threads will be the new tipping threads.

Because it isn't just some record company ceremony.

It's an award that for better or worse acts a certificate of recognition. Yes, it does't NEED to be validated, but the ramifications if it does are better a lot of things.

One, it shows the African-American community that the mainstream media recognizes them and their issues. In an award season highlighted by controversy over #OscarsSoWhite with the larger issues of a system that disadvantages African-Americans more than any other minority, the symbolic gesture of the Grammys awarding AoTY to an album that celebrates the African heritage along with the issues of what it is like being black in America shows not only mainstream recognition of hip-hop as a legitimate art form but a recognition of the struggles of being black in America. It shows impact that even music can be a tool for a good.

Two, it legitimizes hip-hop as an art form. The Grammys, for better or worse, are seen by the masses as a barometer of quality. Recognition by them means the recognition of the music industry as a whole that you are an artist in the eyes of those that matter. If Kendrick won, it would mean socially conscious hip-hop, a style that frankly has been a bit underserved these past couple of years, would be a legitimate method of making art. It could mean a lot of positive things for hip-hop as a whole, or it couldn't. I'm just a guy making educated guesses, not a psychic.

Three, it shows the world that albums that make an impact, that matter in the long run, that provoke discussion, disseminate ideas, raise awareness, help nudge change in the right direction can win in a system that frankly encourages success by pandering the lowest common denominator. It shows producing quality work can lead to success. It shows that pushing the envelope of what music can do doesn't doom you to a life of constant discussion of most underrated [insert related topic here]. It shows that the music industry can do right once in a while and give success to an artist with an intent greater than fame, money, and women.

These are just my ideas on what it could have meant, and I hope they don't read like the ramblings of an idealistic fool. The Grammys could be a force for good and help shape the industry for the better, but it continues to be the mouthpiece for record execs to push their artists further into the stratosphere. Just my two cents.

 

[RespectThySole]

Is anyone really suprised? We're talking about a panel that didn't even nominate My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy for AOTY in its year of eligibility...

even the rap category was a complete joke
didnt even include DS2, Summertime 06, etc.

Yup.

 

[Bronx-Man]

The other biggest snub of the night was Tame Impala getting screwed out of Best Alternative Album.

Whatever, I don't need awards to validate my love of musical artists. That's what Pitchfork reviews are for.

 

[Cyan]

That is what I got from googling it.

Also

Got it. So it likely has the same thing going on that the Oscars do (did?): older white folks who have been members forever and are no longer active in the field, but continue to vote for stuff they like.

 

[cdyhybrid]

A lot of TPAB I just skip through these days to get to the few tracks I still like.. I can put on GKMC and just start to finish it still to this day.

You skip most of TPAB but don't skip Real?

 

[Striek]

The Grammys gets to be better about nominations/wins because they award individual categories (it'd be like combining the PGA, DGA, SAG and Golden Globes together and calling it the Oscars). What the article is talking about is the few categories where all music genres are competing against one another (Best New Artist, Record/Song/Album of the Year primarily).

Those are the categories I was talking about. Blacks are well represented in those categories in both nominations and wins.

 

[GK86]

All this whining is fucking silly. Its the Grammy's. Who cares.

Of course its a popularity contest, the fact that Kendrick is performing is because his music is popular.

You guys bash Taylor Swift (who actually put out a fantastic pop record) and claim that King Kendrick was snubbed due to what? His album selling less?

Hip hop is a respected genre in the mainstream. It's everywhere. Why do you need some record company awards ceremony to validate King Kendrick's greatness?

Sheesh.

I think Kendrick threads will be the new tipping threads.

No hip-hop song has ever won Song of the Year. No hip-hop song has ever won Record of the Year. The only hip-hop acts to win Best New Artist are Lauryn Hill and Macklemore

Why does it seem like any thread/topic involving minorities and their recognition/achievements (or lack of)/problems, there are people that seem to cast it aside by saying 'who cares?'

A movie was white-washed - who cares, it is a terrible movie anyway.
A movie was snubbed - who cares, it is the Oscars.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Kendrick wins 5 Grammy's and people still pissed he didn't win AOTY?

Kendrick won 5 Grammy's against basically other rappers. His peers. I'm sure he is happy about that. But when its time to recognize rap/hip hop on a bigger scale against all the other music out there, suddenly rap can't be recognized. It's an entirely bullshit argument to say "dude won 5 grammys, why is anyone saying shit". We're saying shit because regardless of the quality of project a hip hop artist puts out, there is an outright refusal to give them a W and it's garbage.

We all know the Grammys aren't going to concern themselves with any of this, that's why it "doesn't matter", but like the Oscars etc this is validation for your work on the highest stage. It matters to artists to be given a fair shake for the work they produce. And yeah other genres get snubbed in the Grammys as well, it's also shit. If they are gonna base it on sales than just be upfront. But every year they flip flop the fuck around on the criteria and that is the worst part of it.

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Since twice as good doesn't work, a hip hop album will probably have to be three or four times as good as it's competition and pander to Grammy voters to get out of the Hip Hop Award ghetto.

 

[riotous]

That will not help, the hip hop industry vets that are voting would still be out numbered by the other voting members. It goes back to this from the op's article Its like seperate but equal.

Having a higher percentage of voters be hip hop fans... Wouldn't help?

What else can help? If the majority were hip hop fans then you'd have other genres possible under represented.

Award shows are pretty much assenine popularity contests no matter how you shake it.