REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Your ignorance or are you suggesting there's something factually wrong with what I just said?
Well, I don't share your optimism, but we'll see about that. Or not, since Sony doesn't share PS3 sales figures anymore.
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vg247-PS4: new kits shipping now, AMD A10 used as base, final version next summer
- Thread starter Globox_82
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Your ignorance or are you suggesting there's something factually wrong with what I just said?
Well, I don't share your optimism, but we'll see about that. Or not, since Sony doesn't share PS3 sales figures anymore.
I think you'll hear about PS3 passing 100mil from Sony, they'll boast about that cause that's not too far from what PS1 did. Also the only reason why they don't share those numbers is so they can lump Vita and PSP together.
you are beyond ignorant my friend, but it doesn't matter.
yurinka
Member
I think that if both price, power, digital services (XBLA/PSN), casual stuff (Kinect/Move/Singstar/Music/Movies/TV/2nd screen stuff) and 3rd party support (both sides would get all multiplat + some few timed exclusives for DLC + some few 3rd party games) is more or less at the same level as happens in the current gen, they will get more or less the same sales worldwide. Which is my bet.
But this would lead to the 1st (and 2nd) party games as the bigger sales difference between them in my opinion. I think that Sony in this side improved a lot this gen, investing more on it than in 3rd party moneyhatting to get exclusive games.
They created several good IPs during the current gen, created all these new teams, purchased others, stopped to work with others that didn't performed as needed (I loved Liverpool but didn't liked Imsomniac), experimented and learned both Move controls (which like Kinect I think this time will be included in the box, IMO as splittable DS4) and 3D (which I think it will get more support in both sides because horsepower won't be an issue and now almost all TVs on the market are starting to have 3D so in some few years it can be important) and supported small, quality games to turn some 'indie' games into great, exclusive, innovative stuff.
I think that now a new gen starts, Sony rely less in their main gun (GT) than MS (Halo) so they will have a more extensive library to appeal more different tastes as a whole 1st/2nd party offering that would appeal a bigger audience even if each individual title doesn't have awesome sales. I think that this will help Sony basically in Europe, a market that traditionally appreciated more this. Japan as always is focused on their main Japanese IPs (which Nintendo is securing) and US is focused into their shooters (where MS leads).
So who knows what's going to happen worldwide.
If Sony ships a transforming controller, controller breaking will become real. Very, very real.
I want next gen to be less anti-players, with Sony or MS stopping to take content away from multiplat games. If you do that, at least have the decency to moneyhat a kickass exclusive that takes advantage of the console's features or has more polish thanks to more money. I hope everyone doe well enough to create a good first party line-up and grow the industry instead of one dying and fucking things up for everyone with desperate efforts to at least sabotage the competition as well.
I want next gen to be less anti-players, with Sony or MS stopping to take content away from multiplat games. If you do that, at least have the decency to moneyhat a kickass exclusive that takes advantage of the console's features or has more polish thanks to more money. I hope everyone doe well enough to create a good first party line-up and grow the industry instead of one dying and fucking things up for everyone with desperate efforts to at least sabotage the competition as well.
From a developer standpoint, haven't most Sony studios been in PS4 production for almost a year now? Sucker Punch and ND for example. That leaves a nice year long launch of 1st party games should the PS4 be released in '13.
If they decide to keep motion controls, I hope its minimal, and absolutely hope they haven't even considered going the Kinect route. That would be awful.
If they decide to keep motion controls, I hope its minimal, and absolutely hope they haven't even considered going the Kinect route. That would be awful.
Why people use NPD or US how example for everything? Sony regularly release WW shipped, my friend.
What we heard so far is basically this:
ND- U3 team doing nothing for a year- probably PS4 development started
SP- they had a new IP that they were working on one year ago (when I2 shipped) but no idea what system it's on. Anyway they have 1 year and half of silence
GG- They are making another Killzone title, we're not sure for which console, and one new IP, presumably an RPG. They've been silent for 1 year and 10 months
Evolution- silent for a year and a half. Motostrom for Vita was made only by a very small team. Some say they took over Wipeout and integrated some people from Liverpool in there.
Sony London- busy with Wonderbook and one can imagine they are working on taking Home out of beta for PS4
Sony Cambridge- working on Killzone Mercenary as part of GG
Media Molecule- working on Tearaway, have a second team doing a new project. The studio has been quiet for a year and 10 months.
Sony San Diego- MLB The Show every year and they are apparently working on Warrior's Lair for Vita
Sony Bend- Working on Vita
Sony Santa Monica- Stig has a team working on a new IP, Pappy's team is working on GoW:A, incubator for many small studios, the team behind the Unfinished Swan are to release 2 more Sony exclusive games still.
Ready at Dawn- working on a new IP for next-generation, rumored to be a Sony exclusive
Studio Japan- They have Rain and Pupeteer coming out. Rumor has it that Gravity Rush sequel for the Vita is in works. They are helping with Soul Sacrifice. They are making TLG (lol).
Polyphony Digital- technically part of Studio Japan but they have been quite since the release of GT5, though they did improve the game through patches and DLC. They are working on GT6, safe bet is that it's a ps4 title.
Quantic Dream- working on Beyond, still have a contract to do one more Sony exclusive game.
United Front Games and Sony seem to also have a good relationship, but their games on ps3 have tanked recently so I'd say they might stick with SE and work on the Sleeping Dogs.
So definetely PS4 development is well underway in most of these studios and we'll see some high quality titles for launch, no doubt. The one worrying thing is that only 4 studios seem to doing any work for the Vita.
pieatorium
Member
Japan Studio is also doing Over my Dead Body sequel for Vita. Clap Hanz just ported HSG to PS3 so they likely have started something, probably another tennis game? Also rumoured new Invizimals game for vita.
plz be true
That Invizimals game is confirmed I think. They are releasing the trilogy now and will do an Invizimals Vita when the TV series starts next year.
pieatorium
Member
Not officially annouced I don't think, but the PR for the show let the cat out of the bag iirc
Yeah I think that's how I remember it too. I expect a Vita Invizimals bundle to be in the 180-200 euro region by then.
yurinka
Member
You forgot this one:
Novarama - Released Reality Fighters for Vita as launch game and supported many games and Sony with their AR tech, Vita connectivity was announced for the upcoming Invizimals cartoon, and hinted Invizimals Vita, so they are almost confirmed to be working on it.
I'll add some other minor 2nd and 3rd party studios that worked with them recently:
Superbot - Recently released PSABR. Nothing announced since then.
Double Eleven - Recently released LBP Vita. Nothing announced since then.
Tarsier - Recently released LBP Vita. Nothing announced since then.
Zindagi Games - Recently released Sports Champions 2. Nothing announced since then.
Clap Hanz - Released Hot Shots Golf Vita as launch game. Nothing announced since then.
Supermassive - Working on Until Dawn for PS3+Move.
Giant Sparrow - Recently released Unfinished Swan, hinted a Vita version of it and has 2 games more signed with Sony.
Sanzaru - Busy with Sly 4 for PS3 and Vita.
Cellius - Released Ridge Racer Vita as launch game and Kutaragi is their CEO so 4D confirmed.
Fun Bits - Released Escape Plan which was published by Santa Monica, and supported it with DLC. Nothing announced since then.
Nihilistic - After CoD Vita they decided to stop working in consoles and handhels. Will switch to smartphones/tablets.
BluePoint - Just released PASBR, likely to continue with HD versions / Vita ports.
ThatGameCompany - Their 3 games contract with Sony ended and seem to be working on multiplatform stuff. Some key staff leaved recently.
Cheers for that I don't have the situation for 2nd party studios that well scouted. Though i would say with ThatGameCompany and the way Sony is pimping out Kelly Santiago (I think that's her name?) they might have a PS3/Vita game up their sleeve.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
This is why I love megathreads.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Read carefully: http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/column/kaigai/20121121_574241.html
1) TSMC just taped out 50 20nm projects with "acceptable" yields.
2) TSMC is supposed to be making all Jaguar APUs
3) AMD ported from TSMC a database for Pennar/Samara @ 20nm (Jaguar & GNB) and Samara is shipping in 2013.
4) GloFlo will only be making Jaguar APUs @ 20nm. Kabini is TSMC @ 28nm (GloFlo has a problem with high performance at 28nm)
5) AMD is buying 1.15 billion in wafers from GloFlo in 2013 and 250 million in Q1 2014.
If Thebe and Kryptos are Jaguar based then it's possible that they will be at 20nm. GloFlo and TSMC @ 28nm have incompatible gate first gate last issues, only at 20nm are they the same.
You have to weigh the above facts with your speculation and we both don't know enough to be able to say with certainty which it will be. The Hiroshige article above goes over the issues and trys to predict the node process and who will make PS4 and Xbox3. He apparently does not know #1 & #3 above.
Look carefully at the following AMD CPU GPU roadmap. Notice nothing except Richland and a bunch of white space in 2013 where performance APUs and CPUs would be. Notice Jaguar's successor may replace performance CPUs which means a total change in thinking and design that happens at the same time Stacked DDR4 and TSVs make ultrawide IO memory possible => 2013 Q2 <=.
Think about the cites of Sony CTOs talking about TSVs and stacked memory and that AMD is betting the farm on HSA and needs game consoles to prove the AMD HSA APUs.
There are minor errors in the Hiroshige article and I believe an incorrect slant to the thinking. In the middle of 2010 Sony filed a patent for a Multi-processor Architecture 1PPU4SPU CPU package that could be used in a AMD APU. According to the patent description IBM had already developed a PPU that had better single thread performance. This eliminates the "Sony wanting better single thread performance" and dropped Cell in 2010. The other reason; Costs in developing a cell2 is also not a factor as the MPA "mini-cell" patent is taking already existing IP and allowing that IP to be used in an AMD APU . 4 PPU4SPU CPU packages married to AMD's APUs which provide a complete support solution would make it a very cost effective design. I take it everyone agrees that the AMD APU package is a given as the most cost effective for any CPU package.
AMD's APU is first a complete solution for a "Connected platform" and second supports the HSA Foundation Vision which is similar to the second generation "Cell Vision" of distributed processing using Java as the virtual engine = HSA IL (all this is supported by one of the Hiroshige charts). It scales from super computer to handheld and in between those two extremes is Sony with their CE platforms.
Support:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38329795&postcount=6
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38329150&postcount=2
This could still be done using either X86 or 1PPU4SPU packages so why go with X86; this is the big question. My best guess is outlined in the following article;
http://nintendoenthusiast.com/micro..._campaign=microsoft-and-sony-working-together
published the same month that the Microsoft-Sony.com domain name was registered. They are working together to make it easier for developers to develop and port games. Same X86 processor so both can also use the AMD libraries created to support games. AMD is likely the third party in the above article and a decision for all to go X86 in their interests.
"AMD is betting the farm on HSA" and needs Game consoles to educate a new generation of programmers about HSA and to make it popular with consumers. For this reason AMD has created a massive library to support games and created the HSA Foundation. AMD needs for both next generation game consoles to WOW everyone and with their x86 processors, if they don't they likely won't survive. AMD also could see in 2010 that "the future is handheld" (Sony quote) and at 20nm there is no AMD "performance CPU". New AMD Roadmap by Hiroshige: Notice that in 2014 it appears to be pointing to a "Low Power core" (Jaguar's replacement) replacing "Performance Cores" @ 20nm and beyond.
tarsier not much but i bet its vita game. 45 ppl working over there
http://jobs.gamasutra.com/jobseekerx/viewjobrss.asp?cjid=32026&accountno=80484
Sanzaru is doing amazing job with Sly from what I can tell
Fixed.
The NES/Famicom was the first console of the 3rd generation (along with the Sega SG100 which released on the same day in Japan but never saw release outside of Japan/Australia).
But yeah, the theory that first doesn't win holds true for the most part.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
The thing is, I don't thing they will be on the same level, more or less. Both will try very hard to differentiate their offer.
As far as 1st party games, what you said mostly applies to the Microsoft as well.
Sony is just as reliant on iterating on a few big franchises. As for the library, as much as GAF likes to complain about Microsoft's miserable first party, the market reality seems to paint a different picture. Both Microsoft and Sony have plenty of exclusive content that covers a wide spectrum of genres and interests. Some people value Sony's output more (they seem to be in majority here, or at least they're louder), others prefer Microsoft's.
I'm not talking about NPDs, they don't give us PS3 figures in their quarterly reports anymore, i.e. they lump PS3 together with PS2. But Mario007 is right, they will probably announce a few major milestones.
yurinka
Member
My bets:
ND- Uncharted 4 as PS4 launch game.
SP- New IP PS4 launch window.
GG-Killzone 4 PS4 and new shooter RPG IP a la Mass Effect for PS4 launch window.
Evolution-Wipeout meets Rollcage = best PSN PS4 launch game.
Sony London- Wonderbook games, helping other studios with PS4 SDK and PS Home PS4 beta.
Sony Cambridge- working on Killzone Mercenary as part of GG.
Media Molecule- Tearaway for Vita, and a new IP for PS4 launch window.
Sony San Diego- MLB The Show and Warrior's Lair for Vita.
Sony Bend- Uncharted Vita 2. If I was Sony would hire them a 2nd team create a 2nd team to make Syphon Filter PS3 & Vita late 2013 / early 2014.
Sony Santa Monica- New IP for PS4, to continue helping little studios and the GoW team would work on GoW4 PS4 after it.
Ready at Dawn-New IP for PS4 and maybe X720, if it works Sony must buy them to make GoW Vita even if they don't want. xD
Studio Japan- Rain, Pupeteer, Loco Roco Vita, Gravity Rush 2, helping with Soul Sacrifice and TLG s released November 2013 (like Agent).
Polyphony Digital-GT6 PS4 to be released in PS6 launch window.
Quantic Dream- New IP for PS3, that one that appeared in a Heavy Rain poster and was mentioned before. If Beyonds works well Sony would try to buy them or to get at least a 3 games contract for PS4.
United Front Games- wouldn't work with Sony anymore.
BluePoint would make ZOEHD Vita and after it GTA HD collection Vita.
Zindagi would made something for Move 2 as PS4 launch game (Sports Champions 3?).
Giant Sparrow would help with a Unfinished Swan port and their next game (2014) would be PS3 PSN+Vita.
Superbot next game would be PASBR2 for PS3 and Vita (2014 too).
I think both Double Eleven(LBPVita2), Tarsier(LBPVita2), Clap Hanz(other HSG), Cellius(Ridge Racer 4D), Funbit (new IP helped by Santa Monica), Novarama (Invizimals Vita) will release new Vita games during late 2013 or 2014.
Vita gets a price cut in Q1 2013, PS3 gets a price cut in Q3 2013 and PS4 is released Q1 2014.
PS3 ends selling more than PS1 and 360 at the end of its lifetime, and Vita ends selling slightly more than PSP partially thanks to wifin+Bluetooth+Gaikai conectivity with PS4 which would leverage Remote Play and Cross Controller to a new level.
Every sony system needs it's LBP i think they are working on the PS4 iteration.
yeah I got caught up in what I was saying.
systemfehler
Member
Working on/with Sony (hardware) is of course a nice feature for every future PS4 developer aswell but I agree with you. 45 people might be small PS3/4 game or a Vita/PSN game but I doubt that it is something huge for a next-gen console.
Ofc they won't name next gen or ps4 in the job listing,MM was smaller than that when they made the first LBP i think even then the rules are set now and it could certainly be possible IMO.
This generation we've seen motion controls and 3D, but for the next generation I really hope Sony is going to improve on that by releasing an affordable version of the HMZ-T2 3D-Viewer with the addition of head-tracking.
For me that would be one of the biggest changes ever to gaming to make it even more immersive.
For me that would be one of the biggest changes ever to gaming to make it even more immersive.
I actually get the feeling Media Molecule might not be working on a game at all. They keep referring to it as an R&D project. Makes me wonder if they are doing either a new engine OR a system level project (maybe PS4 UI related?)
jeff_rigby
Banned
That eliminates 20nm as a possibility for the PS4. It also means that AMD probably lost the Apple contract.http://www.propertymentorgroup.com/advanced-micro-devices-inc-nyseamd-desires-to-concentrate-on-28nm-fabrication-process-till-2014/125544/ said:
James Sawyer Ford
Member
The overall quality of Sony's studios (and the size of their individual studios), has grown dramatically. They've been expanding studios that have performed well (Sony Santa Monica, Naughty Dog, Media Molecule, etc) while getting rid of poor performers (Zipper).
Secondly, Sony's position in 2006 wasn't as strong as you make it out to be in the territories where Microsoft does well -- there were a few months where Xbox outsold PS2, the launch of Halo and Live had a huge impact that picked up steam during the latter portion of that gen and carried over into this one. The writing was already on the wall that Microsoft was going to be huge competition in these areas with the PS3. The other factors (price, software, OS, launch date), just even furthered their decline. But having sold 70 million, and with over 100 million PS3s anticipated to be sold overall, they're still a massive brand.
I think this part is the most critical.
Whoever launches first will have third parties on board targeting their software engines for it. Afterall, PS2 was weaker than the Xbox but it had all of the third party support (which Xbox ended up getting some too because it was more powerful).
If you launch later, and less powerful, it makes it more difficult to port games over. And that's a huge blunder.
I really don't care if Sony launches at the same time or later, so long as that they're nearly on par if they launch at the same time, or more powerful if they launch later. Being weaker and coming out last could really hurt them unless the cost is way less than the competition.
Microsoft got rid of Bungie, FASA, Carbonated Games, Ensemble Studios, & Aces Studios, and studios like RARE have diminished significantly
They acquired BigPark, made 343, Good Science Studio, Twisted Pixel, Black Tusk. Some of these new studios are for Kinect rather than AAA games.
In terms of number of studios (which is sort of an irrelevant metric), Microsoft is about where they were.
Microsoft's biggest challenge is cultivating these studios. They are currently an unknown entity, with 343 they proved themselves with Halo 4, but these other studios could go on to perform badly. Contrast that to Sony, most of these studios have been growing for years and have split into multiple teams over the course of a decade or more, making them extremely effective and efficient. Start-ups have a lot more challenges.
systemfehler
Member
And that is why I wouldn't bet too much on technology that is not proven, finished, on the market, ... like DDR4 versus GDDR5.
Giant Panda
Member
It's not about launching first its about launching early. 6 months late would hurt PS4 and it is not launching during holiday shopping. Launching a year late would devastate Sony as the Playstation brand is not what it was last gen. Customers and 3rd parties are not going to wait around for PS4 and their appears to be little to gain from waiting.
Commanche Raisin Toast
Member
ie: a PS4 that no longer needs to wait till 2014 to launch?
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Micrsooft got rid of FASA, Carbonated Games (XBLA studio), Ensemble (PC studio with only one game ever made for Microsoft's consoles) and Aces (PC studio with zero console games to their name). They also lost Bungie and downsized Rare.
Since the start of the HD generation they have acquired Lionhead, Twisted Pixel, BigPark and Press Play. They have also founded 343i, Black Tusk, Good Science, Microsoft Studios Victoria, Xbox Live Productions, Microsoft Studios London, Soho Productions and Kids & Lifestyle Entertainment. Most of those are in the process of hiring, and some of their old studios, such as Turn 10, have grown over the course of this generation.
So no, I definitely wouldn't say they are about where they were, both in the number of studios and the amount of people working for them.
That is certainly true, it'll be a challenge, but internal studios are only one part of the first party publishing picture. Independent partners such as Quantum Dream, Ruffian, Playground Games or Insomniac are another, so exclusive first party releases shouldn't really be a problem for either company. Striking gold on the software front is another thing entirely, and having just a few successful franchises can be just as productive as having a few hits and a bunch of decent games that fly under the most people's radar.
There is such a thing as having too many studios; there are only so many release slots you can fill every year without your games cannibalizing each other's sales (don't forget that you're also fighting for attention with all those third party releases). People have only so much money to spend on games and only so much time to play them. Gaming forum members who play 30+ games a year (and if you take a peek at the recent games you've finished in 2012 thread, you'll see that they're a rarity even here) are not good for judging the performance on the overall market. Perhaps that can explain why Sony's publishing efforts get so much praise here, but they don't really seem to make much difference with the general public.
Fall 2013 is going to be amazing.
Ok let's analize this "massive" expansion MS has made according to some here.
343 industries - it seem like they developed great halo game, Halo is in safe hands.
Connected Experiences- games on all platforms it says on their site, logo has console, pc, tablet, mobile. From wiki Untitled Project Design Large scale multiplayer title and help other first party studios. Doesn't sound hype worthy.
Good Science Studio Kinect Adventures, Kinect Fun Labs
Microsoft Studios Redmond Publishing Overseeing and co-developing multiple projects in conjunction with third party development studios
. Just for 3rd party? Either way lets say this might be something for core and exclusive even if it isn't clear.
Microsoft Studios Mobile Gaming ilomilo
Platform Next Studios Untitled Project. This sounds exciting, the name sounds like it is for next gen, then I googled it and found old gaf thread where it says (pioneering experiences on Kinect). http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=459862
Playful Learning Untitled Project. Doesn't sound core to me.
Skybox Sports Untitled Project . Not sure what this is http://www.microsoft-careers.com/go/skybox-sports/343330/
Turn 10 Studios Forza Motorsport series . Great studio
Twisted Pixel Games . XBL games studio.
Xbox Live Productions South Park Let's Go Tower Defense Play!, South Park: Tenorman's Revenge, Avatar Kinect
Lionhead Studios . Another great studio imo but a lot of talent left it. Peter being the biggest "star".
Microsoft Studios London Untitled Free-To-Play Project. Core?
Rare Ltd . Not the old Rare just to be clear.
Soho Productions Kinect Sesame Street TV
Press Play Untitled Project . http://pressplay.dk/ it seems they are Ipad, Iphone windows Phone dev
Black Tusk Studios Untitled Project. this could be good, confirmed core Ip, aiming for next Halo! Finally core studio.
Microsoft Studios Victoria Untitled Project. Can't find much on it but it sounds like another core IP. http://www.microsoft-careers.com/go/microsoft-studios-victoria/343333/ Great if that's the case.
BigPark Joy Ride series, Kinect Sports: Season Two
Who knows maybe there are more studios we don't know about but based on this I just don't see that MS expansion, and by looking at things most of the studios are for Kinect. That might change, but doubt it.
343 industries - it seem like they developed great halo game, Halo is in safe hands.
Connected Experiences- games on all platforms it says on their site, logo has console, pc, tablet, mobile. From wiki Untitled Project Design Large scale multiplayer title and help other first party studios. Doesn't sound hype worthy.
Good Science Studio Kinect Adventures, Kinect Fun Labs
Microsoft Studios Redmond Publishing Overseeing and co-developing multiple projects in conjunction with third party development studios
. Just for 3rd party? Either way lets say this might be something for core and exclusive even if it isn't clear.
Microsoft Studios Mobile Gaming ilomilo
Platform Next Studios Untitled Project. This sounds exciting, the name sounds like it is for next gen, then I googled it and found old gaf thread where it says (pioneering experiences on Kinect). http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=459862
Playful Learning Untitled Project. Doesn't sound core to me.
Skybox Sports Untitled Project . Not sure what this is http://www.microsoft-careers.com/go/skybox-sports/343330/
Turn 10 Studios Forza Motorsport series . Great studio
Twisted Pixel Games . XBL games studio.
Xbox Live Productions South Park Let's Go Tower Defense Play!, South Park: Tenorman's Revenge, Avatar Kinect
Lionhead Studios . Another great studio imo but a lot of talent left it. Peter being the biggest "star".
Microsoft Studios London Untitled Free-To-Play Project. Core?
Rare Ltd . Not the old Rare just to be clear.
Soho Productions Kinect Sesame Street TV
Press Play Untitled Project . http://pressplay.dk/ it seems they are Ipad, Iphone windows Phone dev
Black Tusk Studios Untitled Project. this could be good, confirmed core Ip, aiming for next Halo! Finally core studio.
Microsoft Studios Victoria Untitled Project. Can't find much on it but it sounds like another core IP. http://www.microsoft-careers.com/go/microsoft-studios-victoria/343333/ Great if that's the case.
BigPark Joy Ride series, Kinect Sports: Season Two
Who knows maybe there are more studios we don't know about but based on this I just don't see that MS expansion, and by looking at things most of the studios are for Kinect. That might change, but doubt it.
One thing pertaining to oldest rumour where PS4's GPU is supposed to have 1.8TF: I was looking back at RSX and at one point Sony (known for their epic BS during unveiling of PS3) mentioned that it was capable of producing around 1.8TF as opposed to Xenos' 240GFlops. I find it very weird that the same number has now come around to be utilized as a probable place holder for PS4's GPU's performance. It just reinforces my belief that the oldest rumour might have pulled a few things straight from their asses.
Obviously RSX is nowhere near capable of 1.8TF.
EDIT:
And the 1.8TF number comes from a Pitcairn downclocked to 800Mhz and with 18 active CU (instead of 20).
I don't think that rumor stated the TF number, people just estimated it based on the probable GPU.
Reckless Onion
Member
Fixed. He also left,remeber
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Thanks for the list, although I wouldn't feel comfortable putting dubious sounding studios such as Platform Next or Skybox on it just yet.
Now, had you not hastily jumped into the Core Defense Force mode, maybe you'd realize that what we'd actually been discussing was how each company's first party output could, all other things being more or less equal (which, again, I think is unlikely), make one console more appealing to the masses than the other. That includes core games, but also casual games, F2P games (which many industry figures think are the wave of the future), platform-exclusive entertainment experiences and so on. A good combination of appealing exclusive products from all those categories could do wonders for market success of any one platform.
That, of course, could lead to benefits (such as increased third party support) that would trickle down to all segments of consumers with very specific interests, including core gamers such as yourself, but that's beside the point we're arguing here.
Streaming Ps3 titles over the internet is frankly the most laughable thing on earth.
Imagine if i told you that you need to keep your old desktop computer plugged in if you want to hear your old mp3 songs. How ridiculous is that? why do we as gamers accept that shit from anyone?
Sony had squandered positives from last generation with one being cutting their consumer fanbase when they threw away ps2 compatability. People did not migrate seamlessly like how it happened from ps1 to ps2.
Telling folks that you need to hook up your ps3 to play anything from journey to uncharted is a sure way of damaging your console far more than any added costs of adding the cell into the system
There are other many reasons for also having a machine that can play 4 generations of playstation games.
H_Prestige
Banned
Another reason for ps3 BC, that didn't apply so much in previous gens, is that Sony now has a crap load of ps3 software they sell on psn. Meaning without BC, they can't sell any of that to ps4 owners. That's lost money, possibly way more money than it costs to include BC.
They went out of their way to make Vita software compatible with the psp for that single reason I assume. So I'm hopeful they will make the same decision with the ps4, even if that means sticking a Cell chip inside.
shinra-bansho
Member
The launch PS3s had backwards compatibility. People didn't migrate seamlessly regardless.
Because of $599. Which was in part due to inclusion of hardware-based backwards compatibility.
The PS3 only really took off after the Slim and $299 - which lacked BC. And people who migrated from PS2 to 360 this gen certainly didn't do so because of backwards compatibility with their PS2 discs.
the 599 had nothing to do with BC and more to do with a non maturing new tech such as blu ray, the cell and ofcourse the RSX which sony had to license heavily at the time.
i bought a launch ps3 the moment i knew it was going to be nerfed. the ps1 to ps2 migration was a seamless thing and the majority of it was what you would call today the wii fans.
the casual market who had tons and tons of ps1 games bought new ps2s during christmas time and threw away their old ps1s as well. The added value and perception of a good deal cannot be overstated enough especially when it comes to consumer electronics.
good luck sony cutting off your audience once again next generation.
H_Prestige
Banned
It had a lot to do with it. The difference in production costs between the 40gb ps3 and the launch models was HUGE. IIRC, despite the $100 price cut, they were losing less money on that model than the launch models.
At the start of a gen with high prices, I don't know how important it is to have casual games or entertainment experiences. Sony had sing star out at launch on PS3 but wouldn't that audience have balked at the price of entry? And casuals tend to come onto a platform at a later date with lower prices, so they'd have only bought a PS3/360 in the
last 2-3 years and not be in the market for a high priced next gen console for another couple of years at least.
At the very least, I would love it if Sony released a model of PS4 that had BC. They could charge $599 for it, and I would still be on that shit. Same for Microsoft. I do hope that if they do offer BC, that they used the hardware to smooth out any nagging issues such as low framerate. Perhaps, add emulation features like raise the AF, or maybe raise the resolution.